916 Comments

Paul Offit has NEVER called for data transparency of the public health record level data so we all can see what is going on. He is not a friend of truth and transparency.

Scientists should be afraid to be challenged.

I believe Paul Offit will never debate RFK Jr., e.g., on Rogan so we can hear both sides of the story real-time.

How about it Paul?

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My guess is that Paul is in it for the money. Rather hideous to get rich off innocent children IMHO.

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Your thinking is severely impaired. Seek professional help

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IS THAT ALL YOU'VE GOT???? SLANDER AN AD HOMINEMS!

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That's not an argument; it was an ad hominem logical fallacy.

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Okay sweetie, I'll bite, which book on this list is "impaired" - https://philberg.substack.com/p/covid-19-and-virus-books-review or which book here would you like to support - https://philberg.substack.com/p/covid-19-books-review-final Are you up to date on all your booster shots? if so, good for you.

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OK,

Books I have read/read most of:

*The Real Anthony Fauci

*Ending Plague

*Cause Unknown

*Turtles All the Way Down

*Dissolving Illusions

*Callous Disregard

*The Vaccine Guide

At best crap and frequently outright lies.....but they don't really stand up to any good faith effort and veriying.

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If the Real Anthony Fauci was in fact outright lies...It seems Fauci would have a very strong defamation case....don't you think? Funny he hasn't sued.

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It is pointless to speculate about the motives for Dr. Fauci's actions or inactions.

What we know is that anyone that has the integrity to read the references can't help but see how it is full of lies.

The book doesn't even make a childish effort at hiding its dishonest.

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Bet you think they should burn these books....Huh?

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Nope I do not.

I do want you to act with integrity and condemn them for what they are ...a bunch of lies.

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This albus dude is entertaining isnt he?

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OK, you don't care that your books stupidly lie.

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Why don't you let people read them and utilize their intellect to deduce what from the book is closer to the truth than not.

Should we all just assume a book is either a LIE or the TRUTH?

....thus there is no need to waste our time reading them, just go with the prevailing narrative that XXX books are lies and have no facts, information, documents...etc...etc.... or book XXX is the absolute truth, so there is no need to read anything else including the book itself because all the experts, pundits, doctors, politicans agree and have TOLD you what to do....which is get jabbed with chemicals and toxins.....which you did.....correct?!?!?

I care not about those books, however there are bits and pieces of information in all of them that to some degree ring true, otherwise they would be universally opposed and they are not....

If I can find one truth in the books you call lies is the book nothing but lies?

All the pro vaxxer books have lies too, it is easy to expose them as well.

This is why I am in neither of these camps....I stay outside of the Rockefeller Allopathic Capitalistic System of Medicine......never been healthier!

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You are grossly misrepresenting my postings....I have already posted that I have read many of them.

I am fully in favor of folks reading them and in fact I have assigned some/some similar books to students.

What I do want is for everyone that has finished middle school to have the basic math/reading/thinking skills to be able to look up "big" words like toxin and to be able to the math that show that vaccines are safe and effective.

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Which one of the 50 in the list? Never mind - F Offit

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I gave you a list below.

As usual, what anti-vacc lack in literacy they make up for with name-calling.

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Wow someone is into something for money! Thats all the proof i needed that its a lie. So anyone doing stuff for money is a liar? Wow, good to know!

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See how it works?

Siri is not a scientist and can't figure out basic things like what is a placebo.

The world rejects his nonsense because it is just garbage.

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😂

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What exactly is funny about Siri and his followers making life and death decisions when they can't even get the meaning of placebo correct?

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😆😆😆the world rejects… what world are u living un?

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That would be the world where ~everyone that has finished 5th grade can see the facts.

Apparently you can't!

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Fact is everyone is a scientist to some degree.

I mean if you have concluded or deduced somethintg correctly you too can call yourself a scientist....right???

But seriously this is the lie!

That I need to be an Expert, Doctor, Scientist, multiple degrees, credentials....blah blah blah.

One only needs to know how to READ.

I do not need to be a scientist and you are a fool for believeing such nonsense as if being a 'scientist' is the only way towards knowledge.

The entire system of capitalistic allopathy was set up in the manner that makes you believe it is ALL legit. A bit of simple research will allow one to intelligently conclude this is most likely true and that Gilded Age Robber Barons set up what is essentially a 'medical business venture' and a good one at that!

Rockefeller Medicine Men corrupted every aspect from college/universities, accreditation, medical journals...etc...etc.... there is no facet of medicine/science that has not been tainted by these robber barons,

I mean why should I trust science or studies when prestigious research universities like Duke is fined 112 million for falsify studies.......and only a fool thinks Duke is the ONLY university/college that conducts themselves in this manner ....right???

Lying to get grants, using falsified data...etc...etc.... but believe the experts, the scientist, the peeps with all the letters after the name signafying what? That they are good little programmed Rockefeller Medicine Men? because that is EXACTLY what they are! John D would not have it any other way.

The proof is in the unHEALthy world we live in.... People have never been more unhealthy, sick, unwell....I have lived long enough to have witnessed this.

Talk about not being able to figure out basic things......

You are talking garbage and i know this is true because you have comfortably settle into Rockefeller Medicine Men system of Capitlaistic Allopathy........

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of the New England Journal of Medicine.” ― Marcia Angell

Scientist....Lol!!!!!

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Once again, I note that you offer is argument by assertion, but your posting is riddled with obvious logical and conceptual errors.

It is exactly like you just don't like the facts provided by actual scientists....

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Congrats future winner of the Darwin award... Put the joint down and stop watching propaganda on tv. Thanks for playing Sparky... Oh yeah, Siri is a lawyer, not a scientist, so your point is? What?

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The point is that making life and death science-based decisions based on the opinions of a non-scientists is silly.

Especially someone like Siri that keeps making mistakes that fail middle-school science.

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Stay away from internet sites like highwire they have no legal responsibility to report truth. Only sites that still have a broadcast over airwaves are Slightly regulated against just spewing complete BS. Highwire

edits videos, goto arizona site and get the complete video with context thats edited out. Warning the actual video is longer than a short spoon fed one.

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I do believe in Darwin, I do I do I do believe in Darwin, I do I do I do... You hang in there Sparky...

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Keep in your bubble thats all your brain has enough bandwith for!

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No one reports the truth period, not the left media, not the right media, not the government, not the NGO's....not even the so called alternate media.

I do not trust Highwire only an idiot would.

All Del and the rest do is propagate the "vaccine divide" when vaccine have NEVER WORKED!

You said it yourself the "airwaves" are REGULATED....so why would i listen to something that is not pure, unadultrated in its organic form?

There is zero reason to ever regulate information. If information is being regulated it is because someone, some group or some interest does not want the majority to know certain information.

So we agree on Highwire but you took a jab and i did not.....hmmm!

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Joe Rogan offered 100k to peter hotez to debate , its on his twitter, but your crappy source of info thehighwire.com says 2.7 mil offered. Stop with your crappy information sources and maybe you could be a little less of an idiot! https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2023/06/26/why-peter-hotez-should-not-debate-rfk-jr-on-the-joe-rogan-experience/

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Elon Musk and William Ackman both added $250k each, many others also put money in. 2.7 mill is offered. You seem rude and wrong.

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250k+ 250k +100k = not 2.7 mil. Besides debating is pointless. There is nothing to debate! In a debate both people need to be knowledgeable on the subject matter. I would never debate a lawyer on the law, I would debate about my expertise of Hazmat Disposal. Rogan should get an infectious disease anti vaxxer to debate. He has enough pull for that. Wait...maybe he can't? Why can that be? If I seem rude its because the guy called me stupid, assume you called him rude too?

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Wake up chump

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The irony is beyond infinite!

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Can you please provide evidence for this claim?

Keep in mind that RFK Jr. makes a lot of money from being anti-vaccine:

https://nypost.com/2022/02/02/robert-f-kennedy-jr-anti-vax-crusade-is-making-him-millions/

It really pays a lot pandering to the anti-vaccine people.

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So they all make a lot of money?

and do you side with any one of them?

If so it says more about you than anything else.

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Fuku so hotez and offeit and killing folks so politely stfu

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If you don't like the term anti-vaccs, there are a number of courts that have described the anti-vaccs as for profit liars (in nicer words).

Of course RFK jr keeps lying and claiming one can't sue vaccine makers.....

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Vaccine makers were indemnified in 1986 (or thereabouts). It’s a law. Reagan signed it. RFK, Jr. said even his uncle Teddy Kennedy voted for it.

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It is a good idea to get vaccinated. The science is pretty clear on that. But you choose to be anti-science. Do you also eschew other scientific achievements like computers, refrigerators? If you break your leg, do you heal it with homeopathy?

You also have not brought any evidence that RFK Jr. is not enriching himself from his anti-vax shtick. Because he is.

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Aug 17, 2023·edited Aug 17, 2023

I am calling you out Tigris!

Did you read the EUA?

Did you catch this sentence?

"It Is An Investigational Vaccine Not Licensed For Any Indication"

You know so much I have to be certain you read the EUA so you must have a word or two to say about the above quoted sentence.......Right?!?!?

Seriously why is it 'a good idea to get vaccinated' with an Investigational Vaccine?

Or why is it 'a good idea to get a vaccinated' with a vaccine that is not Licensed for any Indication?

I would like to hear you respond to the two questions.

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I don't trust RFK Jr and "science is not pretty clear"

“Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty — some most unsure, some nearly sure, but none absolutely certain.”- Richard Feynman

Putting toxins, chemicals amongst other things in your body is never a good idea.

Listen I read the EUA and there was a sentence in the EUA at the end of the 4th or 5th paragraph in which the following sentence appeared though it had nothing to do with the information in the paragraph. It was bizarre...like the sentence was just placed there...it read.....

"It Is An Investigational Vaccine Not Licensed For Any Indication"

Now I read the EUA and when I read the sentence in quotation marks I said to myself, It is not a good Idea to get vaccinated.

Please search that sentence, do some research before you tell me and others it is a good idea to get an investigational vaccine not licensed for any indication........

Now run along.....

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This was very entertaining Maybe it’s not any of the mercury forms that are causing the autism The better question may be ---- WHAT INGREDIENT OR WHAT INGREDIENT COMBINATION COCKTAIL IS CAUSING THE GROWING NUMBERS OF AUTISM? we have to shift to the BIG PICTURE - the whole paperclip operation - not win or lose this debate on a few details... truth will prevail We all stand to learn something. R f Kennedy jr has put himself at risk to challenge vaccine safety Not an easy road Smearing and threatening spot for him to put himself in Id call him brave

Ps

When someone calls another one “a liar”

Or says “he’s lying”

I become a bit suspicious

Is a smear campaign happening here ?

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1. here is a crazy idea: why not ask epidemiologists about the actual numbers of autism cases?

2. How many examples of RFK jr obviously lying do you want?

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Jul 3, 2023·edited Jul 3, 2023

Autism is more common now than it was prior to the expansion of the vaccine schedule in the late 1980s. One in 34 children, up from one in 10,000 in years prior. I don’t know what causes autism, especially at these levels, but don’t you think it deserves investigation?

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It has been investigated countless times and we do know that vaccination does not cause autism. Autism starts before a child is born and has genetic factors.

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Of course there is a massive amount of research into autism.

You can find lots of studies if you search using Pubmed.

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You sick embarrassment

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It would be nice if could make a posting with 3rd grade literacy skills.

Do you think could do that please?

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Jul 17, 2023·edited Jul 17, 2023

Yeah! Or maybe even more better/broader: what is causing the growing numbers of autism?

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Simple, there is no correlation between vaccination and autism.

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Liar stop being a Pharmaceuticalcartelism shill no soul nad keep murdering folks

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I suppose if you had a single rational thought in your brain to support your POV....you would have posted it by now!

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How is it brave to grift clueless people out of money?

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Agreed 100% He is beyond brave !! 💪💪💪🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸💪

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RFK makes a lot of money pushing the Anti Vax agenda, a lot from writing books which are full of B.S. and have been debunked 100s of times. This offitt article tells you exa tly who RFK is a professional liar whose profession is about sowing doubt thats his training. Lawyers do not care about TRUTH. ANYONE with experience dealing with lawyers knows This.

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They haven been debunked sorry brainwashed shill

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https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2023/06/26/why-peter-hotez-should-not-debate-rfk-jr-on-the-joe-rogan-experience/

Good Right wing source of info for you. Thanks for the personal attack it proves your arguments SUCK!

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No one is right wing yer just malignancy personified

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To not debate is akin to censorship and censorship is always about hiding the Truth. It certainly is not about hiding the lie, because the thought would be to expose the lie to the light of day and let everyone see it....and this is why Hotez would never debate while hiding behind reasons why you should not debate.

I simply cannot believe there are people stupid enough to believe that to NOT debate you somehow get closer to the TRUTH than not.

If the so called anti- vaxxers are soooooooooo wroooooooong then Hotez, Offut and the rest should easily kick ass and settle the debate once for all wrapping it up with a nice neat little bow.

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Forbes?

Good gosh when will people think for themselves?

James why don't you tell me what part of the article backs up your argument as opposed to just posting a link and some how thinkng that link wins you the debate/argument.

OK the supposed attack was not cool, but it must be noted you would seem inclined to get more boosters so is it really an attack?

I think it is insane to have chemicals, toxins injected into your body to prevent something that is not going to happen if you just live a healthy clean active life.

I know this is true because I live in an amish community, work on an amish organic farm and know for an absolute fact that the covid narrative is FAKE. I spend 98% of my time with amish.

They did not mask, did not test, did not vax, did not get covid and did not die from covid, nor did I take any of the so called covid percautions around them.

Everybody got their usual sniffles, dry cough, runny nose, no one was ever sick for a whole week or more and i know this because i pick up all the amish workers and take them to the farm for work so I know, unlike many of my non amish freinds who got jabbed and keep contracting covid....worse part is these people think they would have died or been in the hospital for weeks if it was not for the covid jab............Do you have this belief James?

Come to amish country, ask any amish person who do they know that contracted/died of covid. .....also the amish are not cloisterd, they get out and about, shopping, vacation, restaurants, plus non amish shop at ALL amish businesses.....if covid was deadly, it would have ravaged the amish and it did not whatsoever...zilch...notta....zero....

My personal expieriences is enough to determine what is most likely true!!

I like all flesh and blood men and women are the truth, but if you allow compulsory government schooling to sculpt and mold the mind of the young while Strangers that TELL A VISION blind and dumb down the adults with visions the people cannot see beyond or outside of then of course you are going to go with the Visions told by Strangers on their TV PROGRAMS that PROGRAM you to inject a chemical or toxin into your body.

I mean it IS what you did....no?

I like to think i cannot be fooled or decieved and with covid i was not.

My own assertions were closer to correct than the crowd that believes in injecting chemicals into their body in what was literally a marketing ploy to get a segment of the population to do something detrimental to their own life.

Truth be told these parasites are really good at what they do getting people to do things that are detrimental to their life....Boggles my mind that people cannot see the deception but then deception is the realm of th satan so I am not entirley shocked. Satan has been making people do shit for centuries and the people doing evil have no idea they satan made them do it.

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Dont get near my body SD! I have a right not to have you infect my body so I can keep it clean. I have that RIGHT, pee your argument so please quarantine in a closet

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Evidence please.

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I think it is also this one:

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/anti-maskers-bizarre-airplane-story-000326609.html

I think it is also the one who didn't pay up after scientist Dan Wilson debated him:

https://twitter.com/crackedscience/status/1600588917165768705?lang=en

Around the 19 minute mark in the youtube video.

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Seriously, spending your time on a newsletter countering the good that vaccines have done is a waste of your one precious life. If there was a vaccine during the flu epidemic of 1918, I doubt many would turn away from it and many would be alive to tell their truth stories.

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Janet, and everyone, I recommend reading Turtles All The Way Down: Vaccine Science and Myth. If you don't want to purchase it, you can ask your library to do so.

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Or you can read this long and thorough (10 part, i believe) review of it for free. Spares you time and money. (And the library, often having hard times already, maybe too..)

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/part-1-10-the-grand-debunk-of-the-antivaxxer-book-turtles-all-the-way-down/

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This review is biased, just like SBM itself. I think people would be better served by actually reading the book.

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Then at least read both.

With all the corrections, additions, explanations and quite a lot of questions just answered (where possible) you will be better informed than without..

Their bias is mainly towards plausability, i think..

Plausability may not be the be all and end all in life, but it does have some advantages. (Definitely helped e.g. making this smartphone work, even exist. Whatever the disadvantages of smartphones, they're still quite something, wouldn't you agree..?)

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RB I would have more respect for you if you had taken a tidbit from the book 'turtles all the way down" and shown, discussed, debated any part of where it is wrong, misleading, incorrect....etc...etc...

...but you did not do this, instead you just offered up a link as if it just settles the question no and ifs or butts as if everything is wrapped up all with a nice neat bow, but this is not to be.

I don't know about you but i do not read a book based on the notion that the prevailing narrative in the book is true or not. I read the book because it has information, facts, opinions, conclusions, deductions...etc....etc.... all that along with what I already know helps me deduce and conclude what is closer to the truth than not.

Don't know about you but i do not rely on strangers for truth, never have and never will and I certainly will not refused to read a book because some clown world deciple told me it is all lies. See even a book of lies is helpful because when you deduce what is in the book against what you already know you are able to concluder what is true and not.....this is how you spot a lie. Now if you only read the books you are told that are true you will NEVER spot the lie, the deception, the misinformation.....this is where you are at!

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If i think the "prevailing narrative" or the information in a book is untrustworthy , i would not read a book without having sources of information at hand i do deem more trustworthy, to check it's content.

I admit i haven't read the book, and probably won't, even if it's just because there is too much to read.

(And originally i don't give much about all the pandemic and vaccine and disease-stuff and so. I'm more interested in all the things that people believe.)

But also because doing my own research led me to distrusting its source. Call it informed prejudice.

I just recently heard about the title, because i did read the review i link to. (Although i cannot follow everything, because i don't have the book at hand and didn't read it. So reading both would indeed be best, if one's interested! Makes one also learn some other things, maybe..)

In the articles behind the link, what you challenge me to do is done better than i could ever do (i probably couldn't at all, without studying the subject more), so why don't you follow the link?

(One will be even more informed, i think, when one also reads the comments overthere. Because some commenters go deeper into some stuff that according to them is not adressed in fully the right way by the reviewer.

(It all also has to do with the way science is done, i understand. What you can ask it, and what not. Not certainty, for instance..Well, better read it yourselve..))

If that settles the question for you or anyone else i don't know. Make it up for yourselve..i myselve are quite fine with it..

I do regret if i was rude or mean or wisenosy in my reaction. Certainly also should have left out the last part.

But because i was confronted with the title recently, i thought it was importish to make the comment, and i dó believe people will be better informed when they also read this review, and also the comments to it. Next to the book itselve.

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and what good would that be?

Also it was due to innoculations that the 1918 epidemic happened in the first place!

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This claim fails a fact check:

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-vaccines-caused-1918-influe/false-claim-the-1918-influenza-pandemic-was-caused-by-vaccines-idUSKBN21J6X2

Do you have any evidence that there even was a flu vaccine in existence? Please provide it from a reputable source.

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Reuters is not reputable.

Do you have information that shows that Reuters is ALWAYS correct and has never been proven wrong?

Also Facts do not have to be true, a lie can be a fact as well, so 'fact checking' is evidence and proof of nothing but the construction or mainting a narrative.

Now what I said was: " it was due to innoculations that the 1918 epidemic happened in the first place"

What you posted was: "False claim: the 1918 influenza pandemic was caused by vaccines"

The two are not one in the same. I said nothing about Influenza now did I?!

Are you making an ASSumption?

As a veteran I know absolutely and with zero doubt that the MOST tested on demographic in the history of mankind is 'Military Personel" specifically USA Military Personel. The things done to these men without their knowledge and with their knowledge but not full understanding or disclosure is just horrible especially with respect to vaccines.

I am the father of a 100% disabled veteran who is vaccine damaged (Anthrax)

Lets note the anthrax from the anthrax attacks one week after 9/11 did not come from Islamic Terroist, it came from Fort Deitrick Maryland....for this my child was vaccinated and now disabled 100%

Vaccines have NEVER worked and it is clear that much evidence, information, documents, books, interviews, court cases, studies...etc...etc... exist to support such a notion.

There is also mass amounts of information that shows a small group of powerful people have literally built the "Allopathic Capitalistic System of Medicine" that the whole world is immersed in.

In parting there is no such thing as a reputable source....

You must put information from ALL sources, good, bad, pro, con, neutral, indifferent and conclude what is most likely true using your BRAIN and not from viewing a Stranger that TELL A VISION of reputability.

Here you need some help...Start Here:

Rockefeller Medicine Men: Medicine and Capitalism in America By e. Richard Brown

https://ia800902.us.archive.org/10/items/rockefellermedic00browrich/rockefellermedic00browrich.pdf

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Reuters is very reputable:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/reuters/

Children's health defense is not:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-defender-childrens-health-defense-credibility/

The 1918 epidemic was an influenza epidemic. Google 1918 epidemic and see what result you get.

I notice you don't even try to come up with evidence, the best you can do is make assumptions.

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Fact Checking has nothing to do with truth.

I clearly exposed you.

You used a fact check on me that did not apply and now you double down.

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Legacy media are lies wake the fuk up

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Reuters is so reputable they worked closely with the British Foreign Office to overthrow the first democratically elected leader in the history of Egypt.

https://thegrayzone.com/2023/07/05/reuters-overthrow-egyptian-democracy/

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I said nothing about CHD....I am not trusting of them either........

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Tell them about the transmission experiments preformed on soldiers during the "Spanish flu" epidemic, not a single person got sick.

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I wonder why?

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Because it never happened.

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Well you were not there so how do you know?

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The 1918 epidemic deaths were bacterial not viral. People died of bacterial pneumonia. They did not have antibiotics.

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"The majority of deaths during the influenza pandemic of 1918-1919 were not caused by the influenza virus acting alone, report researchers from the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), part of the National Institutes of Health. Instead, most victims succumbed to bacterial pneumonia following influenza virus infection." Perhaps if there was a vaccine back then, many would have not died once the virus entered their lungs. And yes, antibiotics would have perhaps helped too if available.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/bacterial-pneumonia-caused-most-deaths-1918-influenza-pandemic

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They didn't know what a virus was in 1918.

Contact transmission was the transmission vector thought plausible as "scientist unanimously agree airborne transmission doesn't exist" in late 1800s.

The people rebelled against militarized govt mandates which ended the scamdemic.

It is comical that the sheep think repeating 1918 methods in the 2020 situation was anything but a scam using our ignorance of science of history.

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Do me a favor read Gina Kolata's book Flu then go a university and take a course in virology and basic immunology. It will help you.

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I GUESS YOUR BRAIN IS COMPLETELY VOID OF ANY ACTUAL SCIENCE THAT PROVES THE DANGERS OF VACCINES.

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Thanks for offering every rational thought you have to offer in one response.

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Thanks for proving David wrong with information, facts, documents, interviews, studies....that is really rational behavior.

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How many more facts, documents, studies should I post before you decide that David just doesn't care what the truth is?

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How about you break the information down and explain it with your scientific technical knowledge as oppose to posting a link and then have the smug false air of superiority to think you proved a point when you did squat.

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Wake up foool yer embarrassing yerself

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I agree that someone here should be embarrassed...but that takes integrity!

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If I search pubmed for Paul Offit I get 71 publications. Maybe you should first read them all before you make misleading statements?

If I search for Steve Kirsch in pubmed I get "No results were found.". Because Pubmed tries to exclude predatory journals like "the Gazette of Medical Sciences".

It is impossible to do complicated stories justice in real time. Real discussions in science take their time and all a public discussion is empty theater. Check whether science or creationism profited more from having a public debate between Bill Nye and Ken Ham.

A real discussion which would advance matters would also necessity that both parties agree to be constrained by facts so there is a level playing field and are not allowed to make claims which cannot be independently verified. That is a independent committee of fact checkers with demonstrated knowledge in the field under discussion (which disqualifies Rogan) will be allowed to interrupt when one of the debaters commits an obvious lie and correct the claim. RFK Jr will never submit to that. But why don't you work this into your debate proposal? It would be in service of truth and transparency.

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Funny thing is Dr & Scientist have went back (post covid scam) and have been reading studies and exposing flaws........

I guess many did not think people would go back and read studies and journal articles.

Look at Duke Univ....what 112 Million fine for scientific misconduct, false claims...etc...etc.....but trust the experts, don't do your own research.......

Seriously.........

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of the New England Journal of Medicine.” ----Dr. Marcia Angell, a former long-time editor in Chief of the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) resigned in June of 2000 after twenty years in the post

“Now primarily a marketing machine to sell drugs of dubious benefit, big Pharma uses its wealth and power to co-opt every institution that might stand in its way, including the US Congress, the FDA, academic medical centers and the medical profession itself.” ----Dr. Marcia Angell, a former long-time editor in Chief of the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) resigned in June of 2000 after twenty years in the post

“In 2003, the profits of the top 10 big Pharma exceeded that of the cumulative profits of the other 490 Fortune 500 Companies.” ----Dr. Marcia Angell, a former long-time editor in Chief of the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) resigned in June of 2000 after twenty years in the post

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More recently, Richard Horton, editor of The Lancet, wrote that “The case against science is straightforward: much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue. Afflicted by studies with small sample sizes, tiny effects, invalid exploratory analyses, and flagrant conflicts of interest, together with an obsession for pursuing fashionable trends of dubious importance, science has taken a turn towards darkness”

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The role of Steve Kirsch in exposing flaws in the medical and pharmacological system is exactly what? Where are the studies he has published in peer reviewed non-predatory journals which would show up in pubmed? Nothing you copy and paste about has anything to do with Steve Kirsch or how to best have a discussion about scientific matters. What about efforts to provide a level playing field? How to ensure actual falsehoods are exposed? You are commenting on an article where one person documents lies said about him by a different person. Do you endorse lies? Steve seems to do so. He is not about creating a level playing field in a debate, he is all about creating a spectacle, preferable in a way which gives his side a huge advantage. That is not servicing truth and transparency. That is demagoguery. Endorsing this style of debate is endorsing demagoguery.

What you quote about profits in the pharma industry comes from a study published in a scientific journal like this:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7054843/

Which is a published study. According to your copypasta we can't trust studies any more. So why can we trust this one? Studies are good if they tell me what I want to hear? Or what is it? Should we dispense with science because some of it is bad? If you are looking for perfection, you are not going to find it. That is just a fact.

Producing copypasta instead of a cogent argument also means your cherrypicking will produce inaccuracies: Dr. Marcia Angell did not resign from her post, she voluntarily withdrew from it, and she was not 20 years editor-in-Chief, though she was one of the editors during that time, but she was editor-in-Chief only for a brief time. Taking quotes out of their context can change them.

While nobody denies that excessive profit is a problem in the pharma industry, but do you really want to abolish it and deprive people of their often life-saving medications? What is your alternative? Do you have a plan? Or do you just want to tear down, to hell with consequences? Have you ever thought a problem through yourself, or do you always rely on others to do your thinking by picking quotes you like?

Do you really want to go back to times before smallpox was eradicated? Smallpox would still be around but for vaccines. Have you read up on smallpox? Would you have wanted to catch it?

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Aug 6, 2023·edited Aug 6, 2023

Tigris posted,

What you quote about profits in the pharma industry comes from a study published in a scientific journal like this:....

No it comes from the mouth of Marcia Angell or do you have another flesh and blood man or women to attribute it to?

I mean she told you where the information came from.

Who is responsible for the Fortune 500?

JAMA?

NIH?

Of course not and then you actually say: "comes from a study published in a scientific journal like this:...."

Not that it was published in an EXACT specific scientific journal ....just one like this........

Seriously?!?! one just like this?

Why don't you give me the actual scientific journal's name where it is published? and not one just like this...........

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Tigris posted,

"Do you really want to go back to times before smallpox was eradicated? Smallpox would still be around but for vaccines. Have you read up on smallpox? Would you have wanted to catch it"

Isn't to "catch" something i would do willingly?

I mean who would "catch" something they do not want?

Anyways I had someone say the exact same thing only they used "Polio" as opposed to smallpox.

I promptly told that person both the Salk and Sabin vaccines were tainted with an animal carcinogen. and that 98 Million doses were given.

Tigris what do "carcinogens" cause?

The polio vaccine was given in the 50's and the 60's and then it is these groups of people that have cancer left and right just like it is the common friggin cold...so much that there are hospitals just for cancer now....who would have thought???

My Mother had five differnt kinds of cancer or so they say, gave her CHEM_o_icals that HEALed her? No it killed her......I watched it happen as the brainless Dr just follow their teachings and practices.

You can inject chemicals to keep from dying, I will eat organic foods and live in the amish community that does not allow Strangers to TELL A VISION of virus, vaccines, death, fear..........

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I am not about defending Steve Kirch and never will.

and the quotes are not taken out of context.

She was Chief Editor YES or NO? "Yes" thank you for agreeing with me!

Why even mention that she was CHIEF EDITOR....was that to verify what I posted.....Lol!

and that quote I actually transcribed from a book, so politely f off on the copy paste comment.

What is my alternative?

Glad you asked.

I live amongst the amish working on an amish organic farm.

My alternative is to eat healthy, no chemicals, additives, food coloring, toxins, preservatives, vaccines, medicines, GMO's, processed foods...etc....etc........

I never get sick....I might have a 12 or 24 hour bug once or twice a year which i fast through drinking a lot of water, but i never get sick to where I am down and out for a week or more or that I would be desperate enough to go to a capitalistic allopath for some "medicine by deception" (Pharmakeia/Pharmacy)

Also the amish did not test, did not mask, did not vaccinate, did not contract covid or die from covid. The amish are not cloistered, they get out and about, they eat in restaurants, shop in stores, go on vacation, non amish shop in amish shops/stores/businesses so the prevailing narrative AS YOU BELIEVE it should have covid slaying the amish because they did none of the reccomendations and yet they are one of the healthiest communities in america if not the world and you have zero to refute any of what I just said. In fact you can pound sand because the amish prove the covid narrative is 100% bullshit and they will tell you that and none of them have a college degree, are a scientist, experts, doctor...blah...blah...blah.

...and this leads to the fact the vaccinations are bullshit....I mean why do you need them?

Just ask the amish what they did to not need a jab with respect to covid.....right?!?!

BTW I cannot wait to hear the tripe you are going to post about the amish.

One last thing

There are two things that determine how long and how well you will live.

1) What you consume and or put in or on your body.

2) How clean is the Air, Land and Water you live around.

These two things have more to do with how long and how well you live than anything eles in this world and nothing else comes close least it fall under one of the two categories.

Knowing this I act accordingly, this is why i would never take a vax.

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Hes constantly calling for data transparency. He literally spend a lot of time going through data on vaccine advisory panel! I bet he spends 10 times the amount you do on data. But im sure your a data expert right? Try and be honest fir once

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BOOOOOOOOOOMMM!!!!!!

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The Rogan Show is like a carnival freak show. Nothing of any importance can be decided in that atmosphere. There is an ongoing debate about all aspects of vaccines in the scientific literature. It is a free market of ideas. Join the debate if you dare.

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Paul Offit does not know the meaning of the words, truth or transparency.

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oh look, a fact-free personal attack!

If you had a fact, then I suppose you would have posted it!

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"Scientists should be afraid to be challenged."

...should not be afraid?

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Kirsch, the pandering, transparent, Dunning-Kruger effect personified. You have ZERO substance, just low-IQ game playing. You are such a waste

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The studies he's referring to are publicly available. You've simply ignored them. If you have a criticism of them, you need to find a problem with them on the merits.

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Steve is neither a hcw or scientist. His opinion and that's all it is, is not worth the time reading it.

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Thank you for writing this. My father, Samuel L Katz, MD had many of the very same lies written about him in that salon/Rolling Stone article as well. Truth matters. He, you, and the many other people who have dedicated their lives to eradicating diseases that kill children do wonderful work and I thank you for it.

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I believe you are getting the wrong information

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The wrong information about what? About what I read in that article with my own eyes, or about what I know to be true about my own father?

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A debate between a lawyer and infectious disease specialist on infectious disease is pointless, the infectious disease specialist knows a lot more about infectious disease than a lawyer! Lawyering is not about Truth, its about raising doubt. Which is why RFK is so good at spreading misinformation and sowing doubt. He is a really solid lawyer. Check out Ari Melber explanation on why debate is pointless. By the way, Ari loves debate, even has a book about it.

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That is a lie.

A debate is never pointless.

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https://youtu.be/Rzxr9FeZf1g. Good video for you to watch! If you can, which I doubt

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I prefer reading books, with books you learn as you go, with videos I have to then go back, check, research, investigate excogitate about what strangers say when i can form my own opinions while i read.

Watching the video the host correctly points out that environmental issues could be the cause of autism.....see same page, don't be so quick to judge.

In the environmental insurance industry there are but two things that determine how long and how well one will live.

1) How clean is the air, land and water you live upon.

2) What you consume and or put in or on your body.

Nothing else comes close and if it does it falls under one of the two aforementioned.

Vaccines fall under #2

For the host to then turn around and say we simply don't know precisely the cause of Autism is just a bunch of wishy washy speak. I am suppose to trust the capitalistic allopathic medical scientific experts that cannot figure out the cause of autism but don't worry injecting these foreign substances in you definitely will not be the cause of autism.....right?

in fact the shots are HEALthy aren't they james.......right?!

After the admission that the host has no idea what cause autism he continues to speak about it by telling that people they have a cognitive bias and skews how we interpret new information...Blah...blah....blah.... I am an adult flesh and blood male. I do not need some nerd dressed to tell me how to excogitate. This guy could not be more wrong. he is full of sh_t

Moving along the video there is a lot of B/S speak. The examples, allegories the host comes up with are pathetic and kiddie like....I mean cars? puddles?

Then he speaks of over a dozen peer reviewed papers that say there is no correlation.

Correlations is Statistical between random variables....

So it is number crunchers that tell me a vaccine is safe.....eh?

Bill Gates already made it clear "How to Lie with Statistics" by Darrell Huff....Right?!?!

Also lets not speak of the 98 million doses of polio vaccine given that was tainted with an animal carcinogen when speaking abut the safety of vaccines ....Ok?

I mean anyone can post a link, so i will return the favor. Here is one: 226 papers demonstrating the multiple associations between vaccines and autism.

https://howdovaccinescauseautism.org/

I Digress...

The host admits that people (which I will change to MOTHERS) Draw a conclusion between vaccines and autism. ....and why would that be?????????

Mothers are special.... for without "Mother" there is nothing. I trust the instinct of "Mothers" if they Draw a conclusion with concern to their offspring it is legit.

Now here is a whopper:

The host says: "(Parents) MOTHERS who Think about Vaccines before their child is born is 8 times less likely to vaccinate their children" Conclusion? TRUST MOTHER!

and then goes on to say that when Mothers do their own research Mothers get confused and default to doing nothing (no vax).

Quite frankly doing nothing in many instances is better than doing something just for the sake of especially when you do not fully understand it as the host is seemingly making clear.

Seriously this video was a joke.

It had nothing, just a bunch or mumbo jumbo speak.

You must have been joking that it was good, even if it backed up your point of view it was a ridiculously horrible video. Suffice to say there will be no need to link a video to me in the future...... you better come with something much better than that.

There was zilch in this video...notta, zero hard evidence!

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How do you know your father knows what is true? That is what I meant

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How does he know what is true about himself? About whether or not he accepted bribes from drug companies? What a strange question.

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Not a strange question at all - if you have children you should reallt read «The Real Anthony Fauci» by Robert Kennedy. Or even better and a shorter read is «A Letter To Liberals» - the facts are there and references to studies, etc. It’s very odd to me that no one in public health wants to step up and debate him. That is strange.

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Not sure if you are a bot or if you can’t read or comprehend well, but in case you wish to understand, I’m not speaking about anything in that article you referenced. I’m speaking about that RFK jr stated that my father had a patent on the measles vaccine (which he did not) and made millions from pharma (which he did not.). How would my father have a patent and make millions without knowing that he did? You make no sense.

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People set aside the truth and their own integrity, in exchange for money, every day. Some people do not.

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I am not sure about de safety of vaccines after having read the Simpsonwood Conference transcription. What they said there is really clear and shows that they had lied to citizens.

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Jun 26, 2023Liked by Paul Offit

Hi Dr Offit, As have many others, I have relied on you and Dr Monica Gandhi for evidence based updates and recommendations during the pandemic. As a critical care RN it scares me how trust on our public health leaders has eroded, and when well known individuals such as RFK Jr use their platform to stoke these same fires it only adds to the problem and as you rightly said, potentially with devastating consequences. Thank you for all you do, and know you are deeply appreciated!

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How do you know that RFK is not telling the truth? Im just curious? You should read his book «The Real Anthony Fauci» - at least the first 120 pages- has over 2000 references. The facts are all there

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How much is RFK Jr paying you to promote his book?

Have you read any of the references?

Since you have not read the article you are co.menting on my money is on "no".

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If you had actually read the article you are commenting on you could find out that no, RFK is not especially truthful.

He also made it on the list of the disinformation dozen. Disinformation =/= truth.

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That list is nothing more than an attempt to censor which is only done when authorities have something to hide. What are those list-makers afraid of?

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Did you know that RFK jr's site uses censors to stop actual scientists from posting facts?

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Why would they want to post on RFK Jr's site when they do not even want to debate?

I thought the thing was not to give RFK jr any creedence.

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Moral people want to provide facts with the hope that his readers will read the words and not needlessly die.

Strange that you didn't immediately see that....

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From whose a** did you pull that factoid? Your credibility weakens with every post.

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Personal experience...and that of other scientists that I know.

Are you familiar with disqus?

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Of becoming a society being totally led by this sort of information..

(One is even a presidential candidate by now..)

The list may be necessary, because they hardly are and can't be censored. Just critisized. Because you don't live in a dictatorship (yet).

It's to inform you..

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Censorship always censors the truth never a lie.

BTW it matters not what government you live under, they all perform the same functions.

They collectivize ALL the people whether the people want to be collectivized or not, and if not ALL Governments will utilize enFORCEment.

It does not matter if they are communist, democracy, monarchy, dictator, national socialist, fascist, republicanism, oligarchy, socilaist...they ALL do the same things, the only difference will be the degrees of brutality.

There is no such thing as 99% freedom. You are either 100% free or you are 1% to 99% a slave.... thus everyone is in a dictatorship.

also you know what they say about enFORCE_ment?

"Bad Ideas Require enFORCEment Good Ideas do not for mankind will naturally gravitate towards good Ideas which is why Bad Ideas MUST be enFORCEd"

Who enFORCEs Bad Ideas?

Do you support people who seek to enFORCE Bad Ideas?

Do you think it is OK to force people into the Bad Ideas they do not want to be in?

You have some explaining to do least I conclude you are a violent deciple of the governing body.

Are you violent? Do you like utilizing enFORCEment against those that do not think like you?

I despise violent people!

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Disinformation is not false, it is just not the approved government information....that is all....same with misinformation.

Lets be honest nothing tells more lies than the USA Government.....where do you want to start?

Oh and i do agree with you about RFK jr

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Disinformation may not be false. It's just to un(der)proven or un(der)evidenced, at least at that moment, and in comparison to other information available, to be considered legitimate (or the best) information.

('Legitimate', not in a law sense, but in a logical (or so) sense.

At least within a working democracy. Then spreading of disinformation is to a large extent allowed, like spreading of information to a large extent is.

Not so much in e. g. dictatorships, or "theocracies". Then much information is not allowed, and much disinformation is even mandated.

Then information becomes il/legitimate in a law sense firstly, and very often not so much in a logical sense. (at least for the content of the information. It's function can be very logical.)

Given that much of the information/data/evidence that proves you wronger than what you oppose (at least on the facts/data/plausible assessment of it) is out there, accesible and uncensored (allthough maybe hard to find, because of the overwhelming amounts of "other" (i.c. un(der)evidenced) information, the impression (of the presency of BOTH almost free information and almost free disinformation!) is that your country is to a large extent still kind of a working democracy.

That doesn't mean that everything is perfect, or that there are no downsides to certain policies, or products, or to the way things are organized.

That should be critisized and adressed. This would also be possible, as long as it's a working democracy.

(It certainly doesn't mean that 'big things' like 'capitalism' are only good..)

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Information in a country governed by a government that is not outright brutal has other ways to limit the information.......

In the USA there is all kinds of information that is not known to the people that the people should know and do not!

As I said in my original comment nothing lies like the USA Government and I asked where do you want to start?

But you did not take me up on the challenge, instead you start blathering on about political ideologies when in fact all political ideologies simply fall under the heading of collectivism.

I would never trust the USA Government.

There is no entity in the history of mankind that has lied, more, killed more, committed war on more nations and people than the USA.

Your defense of it and thier disinformation list is sickening.

I hate to think if this were colonial times you would support the Crown and the Redcoats disninformation list against your fellow colonist......

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Disinformation means many different things, it depends on who is speaking the disinformation.

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Working democracy?

Well they do work and then they crash ALWAYS.

Who would promote that political ideology with its history?

"Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself. There was never a democracy that did not commit suicide" ----Letter from John Adams to John Taylor, 17 December 1814

"A pure democracy can admit no cure for the mischief’s of faction. A common passion or interest will be felt by a majority, and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party. Hence it is, that democracies have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths." -----James Madison

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You just have to "do your own research" a bit better..

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Wow and so to do you.........

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than "they" hope you do..

("They" is the disinformation-spreaders)

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So you are part of the US government? Since you just documented that you are incapable of even identifying truth. Disinformation is the definition of false. Your attempt to redefine language reveals your love of dishonesty.

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I did not defined the language the US Government did.

How can the USA say what is Disinformation when nothing in the history of mankind has come anywhere close to the number of lies produced by the USA............

Do you support Governments that lie?

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Did i ever say i was part of the US Government....no I never did, I am not into violence so I definitely would not be with the government.

Misinformation, disinformation is still information or are you saying it is not?

when any government uses these terms it becomes apparent that it is done so to censure and ensure the Government narrative is maintained....a narrative that is a lie and yet it is the same government that throws the word disinformation around as if EVERYTHING the US Government says is the truth and anything else it is not thus it is deemed disinformation, misinformation...

lets be honest nothing lies more than the USA Government but you did not want to go down that road did you.... and yet you want to base disinformation as something that is false based on the US Government supposedly telling the truth and that is a laugher....again nothing has lied more than the the US Government in the history of mankind.

Why anyone would trust the misinformation and disinformation of the US Government says a lot about ones intelligence or lack thereof.

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How much do you get paid? Anybody who is automatically pulling out the corporate interest card is suspect of getting paid for sowing discord. And not getting paid enough to do it well. Do you get paid in roubles?

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Is this your comeback..."How much do you get paid"

That comment by Kindered was the defnition of vacuous.

Oh my now you are gonna call Plague Trooper a russian asset?

Sowing discord?

If Plague was going to sow discord he would tell everyone to get the jab pronto......not run from it!

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I agree and you should pull the references and see what they actually say.

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I am going to assume that Kindered and Albus have already read the references so give me a quick run down guy's since the two of you are quite knowledgable after reading the references.....

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I picked a chapter and pulled ~20-30 references.

He obviously and grossly misrepresented the basic facts.

If you are interested, feel free to go through all of them.

I will note, that RFK jr continues to make money with wild claims.....often fraud...but he still isn't willing to make them in court....where perjury applies.

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Good you keep noting that, I have already realized as well that i would never cast my lot with RFK jr....so what is your point of bringing it up with me?

Go find someone who adores, loves and will vote for RFK jr and have this debate/argument with you. I agree he is a skunk!

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On 06Aug YOU asked for a run down.....

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An Apple a day keeps the dr away was not said for no reason at all.

The object is to NEVER go to the Dr!

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My cousin fell out of an apple tree trying to pick some apples as a kid and broke her arm. Don't give apples too much credit.

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First aid and emergency medical is legit and has been so for a long time.

No one has a problem with being sewn up or bone set......pretty simple and has been done for a long time.

What the phrase "An Apple a Day Keeps the Doctor away" is due to the probiotic nature of the apple that keeps you healthy, regular so you do not need the allopath who is going to give you toxins or butcher you.........for better HEALth....right?!

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Appeal to nature fallacy.

First aid is never free of chemicals. Or do you get your bones set without any anesthetic or get sewn up without antibiotics?

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I do not take anti biotics (bio= life) i am going to consume something that says anti-life in its name.

and yes water has a chemical formula and water is used to wash cuts, so you got me there.

But seriously I have no medicine cabinet.

I consume none of mainstream pharma's bs prescriptions, I buy none of the over the counter medicines.

I do not have 'a doctor' that i run to for a script everytime my body does not feel well because i am not feeding that body well.....

I have had two broken bones in six decades so I can tolerate two shots of lidacaine.

Been sewed up three times, have not had a vaccine in 40 years, did not take a tetnus shot even though i was told I could get lockjaw from being cut by a piece of old rusty metal....never happened, stay far and away from the dentist as well.

I have been alive long enough to sniff the bullshit out and phrama, allopathy are exactly that....bullshit.

You can say whatever but i am in great shape and me and me alone got my self there, no Doctor or Big Pharma was a part of it at all. You do not need either to live a healthy life.

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BTW I pick apples....I use a ladder.

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Really unfair comment. Offit has been at odds many times with Fauchi et al during the pandemic. All it takes is a simple google search or you can see the number of podcasts he has done on the topic.

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A really good way to get someone to engage in honest dialogue is to be condescending and call them names. Be better.

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Are you really gonna play "sweetheart" is calling someone names?

and look you replied but not to engage, instead blaming Plague Trooper for you not engaging.....

Am I missing something here?

You engage just to say you are not going to engage.

Lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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If you consider random folks in the comment section your sworn enemies, I suggest you get off the Internet and get outside my friend.

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Lol, RFK Jr is one of the disinformation dozen. Dr. Offit isn't.

https://counterhate.com/research/the-disinformation-dozen/

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That list was made by people who should be on it.

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Correct...Offut should be on that list.

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The corporation of sane people.

Who is paying you to post this type of comment?

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It appears attorney Aaron Siri would be open to a conversation with you:

https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/clinical-trial-to-license-rotateq?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=516360&post_id=131000216&isFreemail=true&utm_medium=email

from his writing linked above: Siri writes that many 'journalists' are rebutting RFK Jr's argument that: most vaccines never went through placebo controlled safety studies. Notably, Siri takes aim at an article published by STAT claiming RotaTeq did undergo a placebo control study. Siri says they are wrong and provides evidence.

"RotaTeq is administered via oral drops. A “placebo” would have been water drops in the mouth. The control used in the trial, however, included bioactive ingredients including almost all the ingredients in the RotaTeq vaccine itself.

How do I know this? Because in 2018, on behalf of ICAN, we were investigating the control used in each clinical trial relied upon by the FDA to license each childhood vaccine.

In that review, we found that while the package insert for the RotaTeq vaccine says the control in its clinical trial was a “placebo,” when we read the FDA’s clinical trial review for RotaTeq, the ingredients of this so-called “placebo” were redacted:

So, on behalf of ICAN we submitted a Freedom of Information Act Request to the FDA for “Documents sufficient to identify the ingredients of the ‘placebo’ in the prelicensure clinical trials identified in Section 6.1 of the package insert for RotaTeq.”

In a response dated June 14, 2018, the FDA provided the requested documents which clearly show that the control was not a placebo. Rather, it included polysorbate-80, sodium citrate, sodium phosphate, and sucrose.

These same four ingredients are also contained in RotaTeq. The only difference between the vaccine and the control is that RotaTeq also included tissue culture medium and rotavirus reassortments. So, bottom line: the control used in the RotaTeq clinical trial was not a placebo since it included bioactive ingredients."

perhaps Dr Offit is willing to do President Joe Biden a favor and engage RFK Jr in a recorded exchange of ideas to dismantle his arguments & set the record straight?

or perhaps it is more comfortable & convenient to take the peter hoetez way out and only preach to your own echo chamber?

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It is total nonsense that a placebo for any vaccine can only be water. It is the correct way to formulate a placebo to use everything but the eventual antigen against which the body will make antibodies. Only a science illiterate person would claim otherwise.

Also our human bodies do not make antibodies against substances which are too small, so addition against sodium citrate, sodium phosphate, and sucrose cannot be an issue.

It is understandable that a lawyer has no real knowledge in biology, but that is zero excuse to write pseudoscientific babble in public and personal ignorance in biology is also no excuse to spread such babble.

What the heck is bioactive supposed to mean in this context? That a human body can metabolize some substances is totally irrelevant whether it produces antibodies against it. Even if the body would produce antibodies against those substances, the point of antibodies is that they are highly specific and they would not bind to rotavirus and therefore not protect from disease. It is therefore total nonsense to find presence of additional substances in a placebo objectionable.

Does either of you even have a remote clue why flu shots are given yearly? Obviously not.

I think you have swallowed way too many blue pills. Go and learn some basic facts about the human immune system before you think ignorant nonsense is worth writing about.

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I think what the vaccine skeptical are referring to is that it depends on the study question: if we're talking about how effective the treatment is at stimulating an immune response, then yes, substances that are immunologically inert could reasonably be considered as being a placebo. But if safety is the question, then the placebo for something given parenterally should be saline, and nothing more.

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Let’s imagine the call to poison control.

Hello poison control? My infant accidentally swallowed 2mL of polysorbate 80, sodium citrate, sodium phosphate, and sucrose.

….. your baby is fine.

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First thing to do is to look up what the actual function of a placebo is....not what the anti-vaccs keep claiming.

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anti vaxx is a term of marginlization.

Why don't you be stand up and just say people are skeptical about Big Pharmas claims of safety because that is what it really comes down to.

You have made this comment several times.......

So why don't you just tell people what a placebo is Smarty Pants instead of just being a jerk off.

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If you don't like anti-vacc, then there are many courts that have characterized such folks as liars for money.

My 2 cents. Most folks aren't scientists and it is easy to see why they are fooled by anti-vaccs lying about what a placebo is. Then you are just a victim of fraud.

But if one then refuses to use their basic reading skills to learn what placebos are and how to use them.....then one is an anti-vacc.

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Knock it off with scientist B/S!

You do not have to be a scientist to understand and comprehend these allopathic Rockefeller Medicine Men Operations.

Seriously....scientist?

How about the scientist at Duke? A world renown research university.

https://businessnc.com/deceit-at-duke-how-fraud-at-a-university-research-lab-prompted-a-112m-fine/

Let me geuss that Duke is the ONLY research university that would LIE and FALSIFY Data to get grants...right?!?

you are so naive that is why you injected a substance you have no idea what is in it unless you would like to give me the ingredient list....

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Safety is studied in the phase 1 of a clinical trial. Effectiveness is studied in phase 2 of a clinical trial when it is already known whether the treatment is safe. So what is your point?

https://www.mdanderson.org/patients-family/diagnosis-treatment/clinical-trials/phases-of-clinical-trials.html

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No I do not have a clue why there are flu shots.

I live amongst the amish.

No one gets these colds that last a week or more. Most have a sniffle, cough, runny nose for a day or two and sometime just a few hour bug.

Healthy GMO free, chemical free vegtables, fruits, baked good and meats is the way to go.

Hell that nut job Kirsch offered a large sum of money if anyone could just find five amish people who died of covid...I mean all you had to do is scan the amish obit's in the amish papers....I read them all the time.

I mean Tigris why did you not take up Kirsch on his bet?

Surely you must believe the deadly covid killed the anti-vaxxer amish right??!?!??!!?!

At least Five of them.....right?!?!?!?!?!

If you cannot explain away why the amish did not die of from covid you should run along and stfu.

Every post I am going to ask you why the amish are not contracting covid, why they are not taking the jab and yet they flourish despite your fear mongering.

Paul Offut has zero to say about the amish.

The amish impugn the whole covid narrative.

and i can tell you the amish politely laugh at the notion that they are fine but they see all these crazy people wearing mask, lining up outside testing tents, getting jabbed down at the fire station and then the amish see these same type of people coming out of the store with cartons of cigarettes, bottles of coke and pepsi, bags of chips...fat and unhealthy with the wal-mart bodies.

Again tell me why the amish are immune to covid maybe i will take you seriously.

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Here we go again!

The fraud narrative that only certain people can understand or have the knowledge.

You are a Fraud Tigris. You are basically calling everyone stupid....

Vaccines have never worked. There is a centuries worth of vaccine injuries and deaths.

Are you "Signature Reduction"

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lol, good luck to you.

are you up to date on all of your covid shots?

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You are obviously unable to cogently defend the position you have been presenting. Have you been overdosing on your blue pills yet again?

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I have defended my positions.

I have asked you why the amish that i live with are immune to covid?

Sadly you cannot answer.........and you will NEVER be able to answer.

You run off parroting the same old line about placebo's

Blah Blah Blah.

There is no covid and there is no need to be jab and if you believe so explain away the amish and their ability to magically sidestep covid.

and BTW this is not to say the amish are immune from sickness because there are amish farmers who do not know any better and they use Roundup and other chemicals and they get cancer. The amish community i am in are organic regenititive farmers, they do not have these problems.

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"I have asked you why the amish that i live with are immune to covid"

Flat out making things up is not defending your position....it is demonstrating how wrong you are.

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What information would you need from me then to prove to you what I say, because i can offer it up to a legitimate source....

I have my bills to the farm that itemize every farm worker i bring to the farm, creamery worker (Milk maids) deliveries, pick ups, auctions...etc...etc.....that i do for the amish.

I have documented proof for over two and a half years of that pandemic B/S that shows I continued to bring the same workers in day after day after day and like i said i never missed a day of work and i never got sick....why is that?....you said yourself the amish had covid, then i should have contracted....right?!

How come no one showed Steve Kirsch the obit of five amish that died of covid so they could collect a big payday?

because no amish died of covid.

Well Albus I take that back. I know one Amish who died of covid.

He had a Congenital heart condition and went to a hospital where you know they are going to diagnose $$$$ covid.

The family was raising the money to have a new autopsy done. The community knows why this man died and they know it is not covid.

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are you okay? do you need someone to talk to besides typing comments here? there are solutions out there for you.

i have seen a lot of advertisements for a new company called "better help". i believe it is a counseling & therapy business you can use conveniently from the privacy of your home. maybe it is something you should look into.

the reason I did not respond to your argument is: you did not respond to mine.

you seem to think you did, but adding conjecture does nothing to advance the conversation nor bring clarity to the core issue.

Paul Offit already got caught editing his recent post "should scientists debate the undebatable" by Aaron Siri walking back his claim that 'of course all vaccines are tested against placebos': being you are unlikely to - you know, read - the punch line is Offit changed his words from "all" to "most"

https://twitter.com/AaronSiriSG/status/1673808897692557312

here is the best example of RFK's opinion on vaccines, its a long form discussion in which both a MD & the news host push back.

https://twitter.com/TheChiefNerd/status/1674266437890744323

again the punchline being: RFK wont take away any vaccines, but he will push the CDC to live up to its mission & conduct placebo controlled studies for the cdc recommended vaccine schedule.

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Here let me fix that for you:

RFK jr will continue grifting million$ from the clueless.

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Agreed, but why would you think a Kennedy is not in it for money....so....can you tell me why the amish are immune to covid?

While following absolutely none of the covid protocols?

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Aug 6, 2023·edited Aug 6, 2023

Albus is dense...he does not see that both sides are working towards the same goal.

It is the same playbook in every other country.

RFK loves vaccines.........

To say otherwise is just flat out wrong!

He has said it many many many times he is for vaccines just not the untested covid vaccine...and it is untested.

In the EUA was one sentence that said: "It is an Investigational Vaccine Not Licensed for Any Indication"

Albus took an 'It is an Investigational Vaccine Not Licensed for any Indication'

and you really have to be amazed at people who allowed this crap to be injected into their body when that sentence is in every Emergency Use Authorization letter......

That EUA was a warning not to take the jab.

What did you think when you read that sentence in the EUA Albus?

Apparently you must have thought it ok....you took the jab....right?

Talk about foolish!

Again the covid vaccinations is: 'It is an Investigational Vaccine Not Licensed for any Indication'

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"He has said it many many many times he is for vaccines just not the untested covid vaccine...and it is untested."

Of course it was tested before the EUA.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-takes-key-action-fight-against-covid-19-issuing-emergency-use-authorization-first-covid-19

And lots and lots more testing since then.

Amazingly some folks just can't find these basic facts....anti-vaccs like RFK jr prey upon such folks.

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You claimed a lawyer dude (you seem to think that being a lawyer makes somebody omniscient in other matters) says a placebo only can contain water.

I explained to you that this is wrong and why.

You have not been able to defend your position.

And of course vaccines are not always tested against placebos. There is a progression in clinical studies. It depends on the phase of the clinical study what a vaccine is tested against.

But you don't know what clinical studies are, you have no clue that sucrose is table sugar. Yes, if you eat too much sugar it is bad for you. You have no clue that that in an oral vaccine the absence of sugar only in the placebo could really clue somebody in whether their child is getting a placebo or not.

If RFK is so concerned about vaccine safety, why does he say all his kids are fully vaccinated? He won't put his kids at risk of infectious diseases, but for other kids, that it totally fine?

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you explained why a randomized double blind placebo controlled trial for a vaccine using a saline solution is wrong? where?

you claim "It is the correct way to formulate a placebo to use everything but the eventual antigen against which the body will make antibodies," but provide no rationale other than, "Only a science illiterate person would claim otherwise."

this is your unsubstantiated claim. many disagree with you and think that giving mercury or aluminum (which will be in the final formulation of the drug being tested) to the control group in a vaccine trial may mask safety signals.

you say 'of course vaccines are not tested against placebos"

paul offit just got caught revising himself initially claiming "all" vaccines do placebo trials to "most":

https://twitter.com/AaronSiriSG/status/1673808897692557312

you make a lot of claims and use an appeal to authority as your only justification.

"you don't know what clinical studies are, you have no clue that sucrose is table sugar."

Tigris, it seems like you are very stressed and are lashing out. talking with someone about what is stressing you may be a good idea. perhaps you should take some time away from the internet and reflect on what is causing your stress.

offit agrees that too much of anything can cause adverse events including water & salt.

https://twitter.com/DrPaulOffit/status/1673327740227919872

you then create this weak argument about risk to the clinical trial if the blinding is broken - yet again it's a claim without data.

here is something you might find interesting - its one of the most widely cited papers by one of the world's most cited researchers (phD in epidemiology): Why most published research findings are false - lead author John Ioannidis

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16060722/

when did pfizer & moderna break their blinding on their clinical trial programs? did it compromise the study?

are you up to date on your covid shots?

have you received your updated pfizer or moderna shot?

CDC says you should go get your updated shot:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/stay-up-to-date.html

best not to question authority.

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These are all inert ingredients and would work just fine as placebo. Given that rotavirus vaccine is in a medium that is somewhat sweet, it makes sense to deliver it in trials using completely inert compounds that are used to help storage. None of those would be active ingredients for the immune response. Sucrose? Come on.

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not sure I am following. did you read the post from Aaron Siri above? 2/3rds of the way down is a chart detailing HHS's childhood vaccine schedule showing vaccine type / description of what the test group received in the clinical trial / description of what the control group received in the clinical trial / was there a placebo control group.

in many instances, the new vaccine was tested against an old vaccine. in other instances, thimerosal or other compounds aside from an innocuous saline or sucrose solution were used for the control groups.

attenuated virus based vaccines are often given with other compounds, some of which are knowingly toxic. the argument is the weakened virus does not create a strong enough immune system response to create future protection/immunity. therefore, introducing a toxic agent with the weakened virus creates a more robust immune system response providing for the desired clinical outcome: immunity/protection to future infectious disease.

some argue this creates a false control group.

it is my understanding of RFK Jr's position that all vaccines should be tested against totally inert compound to provide a valid phase 1 / safety check during early in human testing of new products.

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I take issue with “toxic substance.” I read Siri’s argument and he says that the safety of the vaccines can’t be proven (rotateq) because there was no true placebo. He lists evidence of sodium phosphate being a known nephrotoxin and giving it to babies as one of the issues. Lists the NIH’s own page.

Sodium phosphate is a salt. Taken orally, it’s in all sorts of things (tums for example). Polysorbate is in simethicone drops, if you want something that is typically given to babies. Biologically inert materials, though if given IV AND in high amounts AND to people with health problems (kidney problems especially) these compounds could pose a problem. In 2mL of an oral vaccine, no.

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So Siri has zero understanding of clinical trials and claims lots of nonsense.

It is for good reason that the world rejects his arguments.

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