the fact is that measles can be caused by the vaccine, there are measles outbreaks even with 95%+ vaccination rates. moreover, due to absolutely horrendous practices by pharmaceutical company shills like paul, people can no longer trust the claims they make.
Vaccine caused measles doesn't, paralyze, kill, cause deafness, or mental retardation . Real measles does. Why risk that. So when your kid or your neighbors gets killed you can say"Im free" how thoughtful and caring !
measles doesn't do that. the vaccine does ALL of those things. I'm sure you don't care about the children damaged by the measles vaccine.. if a person wants it they should make the decision on puttign it into their body. if they don't want it no one should be forced or mandated to consume these shoddily made medical products.
now, for as long as mrna medical products remain on the market, no one can actually trust the medical product theyre getitng is not contaminated in some way or mistake is being made while admistering these shoddily made medical products.
no one can be forced to take these and no one should be prevented from attending school or any other tax funded activities for lack of vaccination.
you don't have to like it. but you will accept it going forward.
Here is a good summary of the damage measles does. It's based on the findings of the outbreaks of measles that took place in the US in the late 1980/90s, before ther second dose of vaccine was introduced as routine.
What is the vaccination rate of the more than 10 million illegal immigrants that Biden has welcomed into the country? How can you pretend to have an honest analysis without even mentioning this?
please don't make this issue political. it isn't. paul does that and it really bothers me. those people coming to the country shouldn't be forced to be vaccinated anymore than you should. many of those people believe the same things your ancestors believed when they were coming and most of them were men too. you can be vigilant and not be obnoxious about it.
the fact is that immigration is contentious and it isn't a place to score points. I don't want mandates. I don't think mandates for ANYONE is appropriate. I'm on the left. I'm a biden supporter. I also think there is enough room for people. we will struggle as we always have. but that is life.
again, please don't use immigration as a means to score points. next thing you know paul will call for forced vaccination of those people too and that wouldn't help either.
I didn’t say anything about politics. I’m just calling out a supposed scientist who wants to shame everyone else for misinformation, while ignoring the biggest elephant in the room, because of politics. All of Covid from the beginning was politics, not science, and this only drives that realization home.
I think he is artificiali intelligence. Stock answers for everything. My opinion. He answered one of my concerns with data that nothing to do with the conversation
I suspect you may be right. The absolute lack of logic is shocking. Just an automated encyclopedia of data, but only that data which supports his priors.
Pretty good. Mexican children (when I last checked the data a couple of years back) had higher MMR vaccination rates than US kids. Other countries? I’d have to check.
But your “point” is merely a distraction to drag people away from the fact that vaccination is highly protective against measles. The origin of measles in US outbreaks is almost always the result of an unvaccinated US citizen becoming infected abroad, returning to the US and infecting others in their community. We saw this with the large outbreak a few years ago in orthodox Jewish community in NYS for example.
No immigrants are necessary to explain what has been going on.
In the last bad measles year of 2019, fully 98% of index cases were in US citizens returned from abroad.
Was 2019 before or after the demented Marxist came to power and allowed 10M people of absolutely unknown vax status into the country, while at the same time trying to force companies to fire US citizens for not proving theirs?
Many studies have shown concern for under vaccinated foreign populations in our country.
They were wrong, they continued to say wrong things after they knew they were wrong, and coerced media companies to sensor people they knew were right. But ok, they didn’t lie.
In any case, with their record of being wrong, Nothing that they say or publish can be trusted. Especially when they Refuse to own their wrongs.
I have noticed that the pro vaccine front has adjusted their position on some hard facts about vaccines since Covid.
Vaccines are accepted now to not stop catching or spreading diseases.
Advocates are more careful now saying what mortality from disease is, as an example they aren’t stating any longer that measles are a death sentence citing example from 1900 era. The CDC’s graphs showing mortality rates dropping more than 90% prior to vaccine introduction are too wide spread now, they had to concede that.
Areas for the vaccine crowd to still work on. From COVID we learned the concept of dying with a disease rather than from a disease, the same will be true for chickenpox, measles etc. there is no kid that died with chickpox that wouldn’t be susceptible to almost anything, basically a health impaired person. These people are the ones that vaccines should be reserved for, the 1/1000 immune compromised person.
Another area for the vaccine crowd to work on is understanding that natural infection provides superior health benefits, as an example those with natural chickpox infection having lower rates of shingles later in life compared to the vaccinated.
Another item is the area of harms / adverse events from vaccines, the risk could be worth it for an immune compromised person but it’s not for a perfectly health person. Understand that the 1 or 2 cases per million adverse events claim if you follow it through is the number of awarded vaccine injury claims divided by the total number of vaccines given. If you’ve ever asked a question about a kid’s neurological ticks that followed MMR as an example you learn real quick there are significant barriers to reporting a concern and being taken seriously. They did the same thing to people that first asked, you think maybe this lung cancer is from smoking? Point is for every injury claim that is paid out it is the tip of the iceberg, the one or two per million claim is ridiculous.
The other thing we learned from Covid is that there are viable prophylactic and therapeutic steps that can be taken with disease. As an example vitamin D was not therapeutic for Covid but if you took it regularly before being exposed it seems to have been useful as there was basically no one in the ICU that had good vitamin D levels. And as documented in the 2005 paper in the national library of medicine that Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread.
But they told people do nothing, wait till you get really sick before coming to the hospital, after there is anything we can do for you, very strange that guidance wasn’t given to minimize health complications from infection.
Let’s face it pharma has been misleading us for decades and as they play a more dominate role in everyone’s lives (an increasing percentage of GDP is being spent on health than ever before) our health continues to decline. Ever increasing rates of chronic disease go hand in hand with ever increasing use of drugs and vaccines. There’s other factors like processed food, but come on, so many of these health problems are autoimmune related and the one thing that absolutely can’t be included on the list of potential causes are the very products that intentionally stimulates your immune system. And now with mRNA it’s your own cells internationally growing a protein to be attacked by your own immune system.
Vaccines and drugs have been over used, there’s just too much money at stake to prevent that from happening, one day that will be accepted. Pharma knew vaccines were inherently dangerous, they were going to exit the business in the early 80’s because of it. That resulted in Reagan agreeing for the govt to take on the liability in the 1986 Vaccine Act, and ever since then pharma’s enthusiasm for vaccines can’t be stopped. Moderna’s vision with their DART plan is 48 hours from virus detection to mRNA shot ready for injection, what could possibly go wrong.
“ Another area for the vaccine crowd to work on is understanding that natural infection provides superior health benefits, as an example those with natural chickpox infection having lower rates of shingles later in life compared to the vaccinated.”
This is complete nonsense. Natural infection can produce better immunity against reinfection than vaccines do, but only for those who survive the ravages of the infection in the first place. For diseases like measles, the annual toll prevaccine was 450 dead kids, thousands of brain damaged kids, and tens of thousands of deaf kids.
Vaccines provide 98% probable lifelong measles immunity.
….Its a no brainer as to whether the vaccine should be used.
Secondly, those vaccinated against chickenpox have a very low risk of shingles later in life, much lower than those who had natural chickenpox. You only get shingles if you are infected with the virus. Lifelong risk for the infected is one in three.
The rest of your comment is filled with similar disinformation. Please desist.
Dr Offit, the ravages of death from chickpox? where are you sick children’s hospital. There isn’t a healthy kid that can’t handle chickpox.
400-500 measles deaths in 1962, what evidence do you have it would be the same now? Before you would allow people to focus on 1900 figures, everyone is onto the steep decline by the early 60’s. There was far less ability to treat people in the 60’s compared to now, it’s a fair assumption mortality would be much less.
And again like Covid it’s a situation of died with as much as it ever was a matter of died from. Just like in wildlife management diseases is recognized to take out primarily the sick and old. Stop scare mongering, the risk to healthy people is way less than the risk from the vaccine. But fear has been your number one playing card so I know how you don’t like to give it up.
I think the tide is turning, people are tired of having been misled for so long. You had everything wrong during Covid, you guys thought it would just side through the same as all the other vaccines, but doing the whole population at once rather than just the new cohort highlighted the fraud to where it wasn’t deniable. The whole vaccines prevent disease mantra, well you don’t claim that anymore, and with that out the window there is no social contract, it’s a personal choice, someone is doing nothing to put someone else at risk by not vaccinating.
I had chickenpox when I was nine months old. My grandmother told me how hard it was. I’ve also had shingles eight years ago. That as not fun and I’m so glad I had my child vaccinated against chickenpox. My friend’s husband dies of shingles. Unfortunately for him it went to his brain.
And of course those who are vaccinated against chickenpox have a very low incidence of shingles, since if you were succesfully vaccinated against chickenpox (the vaccine is around 90% effective), you will never get shingles.
Pre-CPox vaccoine there were around 100 deaths a year from chickenpox, and there are also around 100 deaths a year from shingles. Then there were the thousands of cases of brain-damaging encephalitis and pneumonitis that the virus also causes every year.
The vaccine rarely has problems, and the number of those who have died from from a CPox vaccine reaction since its introduction nearly 30 years ago could be counted in single figures.
Yes that sounds bad, and everyone I know would have sympathy for someone going through that. I support you in any decisions you make for yourself, that’s the way it should be. There will be tough cases tough cases without vaccinations, but there are reported risk from vaccination as well. It should be a personal choice. Society’s overall health has been on a long steady decline, something is driving it, there’s plenty of information that it could very well be excessive use of vaccines and drugs, enough that it should be on the table for discussion. But again irrespective of all that, it’s a free country, people must be able to decide what’s right for themselves.
I would say you obviously haven’t looked into the history of disease prior to the introduction of vaccines and haven’t looked into the clinical trials of the products used on the public or the harms caused by those product and many other pharmaceuticals. There has been some wonderful drugs, but there have been more bad ones.
“400-500 measles deaths in 1962, what evidence do you have it would be the same now?”
Because the drop in deaths thanks to advanced medical care and nutrition plateaued out by the 1960s. In fact one could well argue we have poorer nutrition now, so maybe you are right…deaths might not have been the same, they could have been higher!
They should solicit a group of volunteers to do a study of vaxxd verse unvaxxed and follow them through pregnancy to 20 years old. See who is healthier overall, ear infections, asthma, food allergies, etc, autism of course, and a whole host of chronic illnesses. There’s plenty of people that would be more than happy to participate judging from the growth in the educated vaccines hesitant crowd. And given that vaccines don’t stop catching or transmitting disease we wouldn’t be risking anything for those that still wish to vaccinate.
Just take the whooping cough vaccine as an example, the vaccinated are super spreaders because they pack disease but they are just asymptomatic, they’d be better off knowing they are sick so they could remove themselves from a house that has a new baby in it. Same as polio vaccinated are proven to carry the virus in their stool. The guys in the lab don’t understand 10% of the immune system and have made a total mess of it.
Ok I have to get back to work so I can pay my share of the taxes the govt keeps wasting.
I bet that if people see one group is healthier than the other they will be more inclined to repeat what they are doing. How about a smoker verse non smoker trial, would that have the same no confounding variables issue?
The Natural infection crowd always OK to sacrifice a few kids, just not theirs. Let them skip measles vax, let their kids be brain damaged, deaf, dead, etc. Then prosecute them for manslaughter.
“Strategic vaccination campaigns have virtually eliminated diseases that previously were common in the United States, including diphtheria, tetanus, poliomyelitis, smallpox, measles, mumps, rubella, and Haemophilus influenzae type b meningitis (8). With the licensure of the combined diphtheria and tetanus toxoids and pertussis vaccine in 1949, state and local health departments instituted vaccination programs, aimed primarily at poor children. In 1955, the introduction of the Salk poliovirus vaccine led to federal funding of state and local childhood vaccination programs. In 1962, a federally coordinated vaccination program was established through the passage of the Vaccination Assistance Act--landmark legislation that has been renewed continuously and now supports the purchase and administration of a full range of childhood vaccines.
The success of vaccination programs in the United States and Europe inspired the 20th-century concept of "disease eradication"--the idea that a selected disease could be eradicated from all human populations through global cooperation. In 1977, after a decade-long campaign involving 33 nations, smallpox was eradicated worldwide--approximately a decade after it had been eliminated from the United States and the rest of the Western Hemisphere. Polio and dracunculiasis may be eradicated by 2000.”
Have you seen the studies of overall health of unvaccinated kids compared to vaccinated ones? The vaccinated are orders of magnitude worse in so many chronic health issues. ear infections, asthma, allergies, etc parent unwittingly subject their kids to toxins like aluminum adjuvants, and then can’t make the connection. Chickenpox, any kid that is at risk from this will be at risk from so many things, an immune compromised person, save the vaccines for them. They will be better protected by people with natural immunity than by vaccines with less perfect immunity.
Actually the chickenpox vaccine is highly unlikely to prevent infection with the human herpes virus 3, as no vaccine prevents infection. What the vaccine does is prevent serious illness as with every other vaccine.
If a person is infected with HHV3 then they may develop shingles later in life even after the chickenpox vaccine. This is why there’s a shingles vaccine as well.
Don’t forget that like all herpes viruses, HHV3 lies dormant in the nucleus of specific cells, in this case in nerve cells. HHV4 & 5, the causative pathogens for infectious mononucleosis, is in immune system cells. Under certain circumstances these latent viruses can become active, maybe without symptoms (astronauts returning from space have been found to have reactivated HHV3 and HHV4).
Here in the U.K. the NHS only offer the chickenpox vaccine to vulnerable children. The shingles vaccine is offered to all over 65-70 years of age. The reason being is that shingles can be very nasty in older people.
What i did notice when working as a nurse practitioner was that children were catching chickenpox early and some developed shingles as young as 8, I didn’t have chicken pox until I was 8.
VZv vaccine does indeed prevent primary infection; it is around 90% protective.
No primary infection = no latent infection of dorsal root ganglia in the CNS, so no shingles reactivation later on.
Shingles vaccine is given to those over 65/70 because that demographic have all had primary chickenpox when younger, and boosting immunity by vax helps prevent the latent virus reactivating.
Eventually the generations of younger people who had vaccine will get old, but very few will get shingles. It’s possible that in decades to come shingles vax is only needed for those who never had vaccination earlier in life.
According to the NHS website it is still possible to get chickenpox after the vaccine. Also how can you tell whether or not you’ve been infected post vaccination as there will be no diagnostic rash? You could become infected and only have a raised temperature, that will be written off as an infection of unknown viral origin.
Where are the immune cells that have been primed by the vaccine located?
True, you could still get natural cpox and therefore also shingles (but only one in ten would be at risk of that one hopes).
AFAIK the vaccine stimulates both good humoral and cellular immunity, being a live vaccine. I expect the B and T cells are all located in the haematopoetic/lymphoid compartments, rather than the CNS itself. But immunity from the shingles vax stops re-emergence, so it must be effective at a neurological level somehow.
ETA: hopefully widespread universal vaccination could eliminate Cpx (and therefore shingles) and generate true herd immunity. But you’d need to vax more than 90/95% of children since the virus is very infectious, almost on a par with measles.
As with measles, which has a similar incubation period, I suspect a 95% uptake would be required.
WRT measles, I had measles as a child, not sure how old, but I was probably 5 or 6. In 2008 I had a measles IgG antibody check as I was starting in A&E (ED), the levels were still measurable some 50 years after the acute infection, this means either I had a massive initial viral load or I was reinfected multiple times over that 50 years. IgG has a half life of 21 days, there’s over 600 periods in 50 years which means the initial viral load was astronomical.
Unfortunately, the undifferentiated pushing of the COVID-vaccines from infant to elderly has fueled undifferentiated vaccine hesitancy in many people, as the suppression of open scientific debate pushes scepsis towards science.
Maybe we should start cleaning our own room, before we start blaming others.
Expect to see many more deaths from preventable diseases during the second Trump administration, which will begin in January of 2025. That's ironic because he was originally a vaccine booster.
Once that genii is out of the lamp it will not be stuffed back in easily no matter who succeeds Trump as Dictator of America. Such things take generations.
I weep for you. If anyone is to blame for the public’s lack of faith in our medical establishment (including vaccines), it is the fault of the experts and leaders who continue to lie.
I don’t understand the death rate here. Almost all children had measles prior to the introduction of the vaccine. Are we really saying it killed more than 1 in 100? In a modern, well nourished nation? In this paper link below, it was 1 in 1000 approx, immediately prior to the vaccine licensure. What on earth gave it such a high fatality rate in this outbreak? Seems fishy.
He is referring to the case fatality rate of clinical measles during the outbreak. This is different from the infection fatality rate, which as you point out is more in the order of one in a few thousand.
Back in the 60s, measles was almost always a clinically diagnosed condition. It causes a very typical rash, often following very diagnostic prodromal features such as Koplik’s spots. They didn’t have the diagnostic tests to confirm these diagnoses…it’s likely there was a degree of misdiagnosis, but the main issue was that very mild cases would be regarded as not due to measles but perhaps some other nonspecific viral exanthem, and there were certainly many asymptomatic cases where the diagnosis of measles wouldn’t even be considered.
But… Epidemiological evidence from serological prevalence surveys suggested 90% of people had measles during childhood, which would work out at 2.5 million infections a year on average in children. But officially there were only around 500,000 notifications of clinical cases each year. That means the CFR in the 1960s was around one in a thousand, but the IFR would work out at around one in 5,000.
paul is always misstating facts. he was once called on it during one of his talks and I started noticing it. if you watch him enough you begin to notice when he takes things out of context. this story is one of those times. according to what actually happened a total of 9 children were forcibly vaccinated against the wishes of the parents. I'm not clear why.
what I do think is that we need more exemptions for parents and the law shouldn't be used for medical interventions of any kind. that must end. no doctor or public health official should have that power.
I suspect many were left without medical care thanks to the religious dictats. A frequent cause of death in measles fatalities is secondary bacterial pneumonia, which is treatable with antibiotics/ICU care/respiratory support.
I'm not a "bot". I'm a human being that has read, listened to paul, and his colleagues tell the story and I have also listened to and read reporting on the issue.
the children were just fine. many of them that were not vaccinated also were not infected. I'm not the one who made that claim. talk to the media. you can read about it too.
We have here one more piece of evidence confirming an axiomatic statement: Just because some church or "church leader" utters directives to her/his "faithful followers" there is never a bit of assurance that said directives are not just pure B.S. -- be careful what/whom you believe in.
Since when did they possess “massive evidence” for their wet market claims, or their “safe and effective” or the stupid “6 foot rule”. They still expect you to accept their tripe as a matter of faith.
Del Bigtree is a good man, it’s not easy being a contrarian, he came to be in the role he’s in by coincidence, he did not set out to take on this fight. He was on cruise control, everything was going his way and then he jeopardizes all that to be stigmatized by people like you, I don’t think so. You somehow equate what he’s doing was a plan to extract rents from a fraudulent venture. You know who you’re describing when you describe that, pharma.
You know it would be great if a guy like you would go on Del’s show and have a civilized conversation. This matter needs to be resolved, we keep adding shots to the childhood schedule and rates of chronic diseases keep going up, it’s literally as obvious as cigarettes (same type of correlations in multiple unconnected environment, etc.) meets the Bradford Hill criteria. People will look back on history and say they were literally poisoning themselves, no different than the way we look back on the Romans with their plumbing. They will look back and say how could they be so stupid.
How could talking about a topic be controversial. You do realize that at each time in history the ones refusing to engage with and guilty of censoring their critics / skeptics are recognized as the ones that were wrong. There has been no issue where talking about the negative aspects of something was as taboo as vaccines and could result in you being finished. pharma and their devoted apostles are obviously on the wrong side of history. Will maybe climate change.
It’s like the climate crisis (may as well get another topic on the table) the one thing the 97% of scientists can all agree on is not getting their funding cancelled. Just like pharma, go along, keep your mouth shut or forget ever qualifying for a grant, it’s the most corrupt enterprise ever set in motion, right up there with the military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about, the two are actually two peas in a pod, the same institution investors control the whole works along with the media, ever wonder why they are always on board reporting what the companies do?
Anyway we see the world differently, that’s obvious, and we’re both going to work to further our views, that’s alright isn’t it?
All Dr Offitt points out is the association with measles deaths to lack of vaccination. It's causal actually. Personally I hope a lot of Anti Vaxxers chose to go unvax so we can "cull the herd!" Cool thing about measles is you can completely get over it, then 7-10 years later get an uncurable neurological disease.
That’s kind of a harsh position, you do realize that vaccinated people catch and spread disease, just like with the Covid shots. Like whooping cough the vaccinated are super spreaders being asymptomatic. You obviously haven’t looked into it.
It’s a paper that was even funded by pharma, but the results were so conclusive that vaccines don’t protect against the spreading of whooping cough it was the only conclusion they could put forward. If you’ll read it the vaccinated have asymptomatic protection only meaning they are superspreaders. Morality from whooping cough dropped off to nothing before vaccination just like measles and scarlet fever which has never had a vaccine.
Pertussis is one of the least effective vaccines at preventing infection (though there are some worse than it such as tetanus), but it works very well at preventing clinical disease in children.
The point is it does not stop catching or spreading disease. In fact the vaccinated are a greater risk because they don’t know they have it. It’s a pharma funded paper, you think it would get published without the standard line well it helps in some way or another.
I saw your comment calling Wakefield a liar. That confirms you’re not interested in searching for truth, you’re committing the equivalent of a trial that end in a witch burning. The good news is the truth alls is discovered in the end and Covid caused people to pull back the curtain. You’re starting to lose this struggle in society, you’re losing people at a rapid rate and eventually that trend will go vertical. So short of a plan to physically strap people down to inject them a lot less people will be taking the products of this pharmaceutical fraud. But you guys shot yourself in the foot with Covid.
You think the point is that pertussis vaccine doesn’t prevent infection, but that’s not the point at all.
Infection in adults is pretty harmless, and it’s only serious in kids, BUT IF THEY ARE VACCINATED THEY DON’T GET ILL.
It’s irrelevant if the vaccinated catch infection and spread it. And who says they are superspreaders if they get infected? They aren’t ill, so they don’t cough, which cuts spread compared to the unvaccinated who get infection. It’s true the asymptomatic infected *might* expose more people to the bacterium because they don’t know they are infected, but this increased risk is likely well compensated for by the fact they don’t cough, and so transmit less.
And the MAIN point is that the vaccines prevent disease and death. Don’t forget that.
PS: Wakefield is a proven fraud (and therefore a liar). Don’t forget that either.
Yes it did….Thanks to improved medical care and better nutrition. But cases didn’t.
But then mortality improvements got stuck, with 450 or so deaths happening each year on average in the US.
In other countries, it didn’t decline much prevaccine because good medical care etc was lacking. But when vaccine was introduced, cases and mortality dropped like a stone.
Cases, who cares about cases, that’s the reason we ran over a cliff during Covid. Those natural infections in healthy people are a benefit for all of society especially the immune compromised. The mass vaccination is biting us in the ass, it destroyed our chance of ever creating herd immunity. Sickness levels are increasing, bet it’s in the vaccinated, the health authorities pulled all the stats by number of shots in mid 2022 when it became blatantly obvious that the vaccinated were having more hospitalizations and deaths on a per capita basis than the unvaccinated in each age cohort. It was the biggest public health screw up of all time. And now those that keep going for boosters have high IgG4 levels which go along with IgG4-RD. Also they are so immune focused that when there is a mutation that isn’t specific to the spike protein it’s going to be a blind side for an immune system that’s been put in park. We’re seeing the start of this now with JN.1 holding in as the dominate variant. The virus is going to have to proliferate within the host to continue its linage if it can’t achieve this by going from host to host with ever more infectious variants, this will present as a more virulent form of the covid. But we’ll be led to believe it’s an entirely new diseases, you know disease X which is simply the consequence of managing the initial virus wrong by attacking it with a non sterilizing vaccine during an active pandemic. All the mass vaccination did imposing immune pressure on the disease during an outbreak was the equivalent of a population wide gain of function experiment. But there was money to be made and nothing was going to get in the way of that. The unvaccinated of even moderately good health that haven’t been subject to the immune focusing caused by vaccination will sail through disease X with no problem.
People with comorbidities are more likely to be vaccinated. They still die from comorbidities not the vaccine. Maybe review Post Hoc Fallacy because you fell into that trap it seems. https://youtu.be/Qnu8NvnRmFY?si=nwI3oyGCcCV2VBKg. Good video for you
It’s like the healthy bias, people about to die don’t get vaccinated and then it’s counted like an unvaccinated death. People that want vaccines should take them by all means and not worry about those that don’t.
What makes you think I’m a bot? Healthy Vaccinee Bias is a real thing, you can find it in text books, journals like NEJM.
Vaccines (especially experimental ones) should only be used on people that are deemed to be at risk, covid is the perfect example of a complete failure in public policy giving them to kids that were not at risk from the disease.
You see all the sick people around, you know the long COVID, overwhelming vaccinated. It’s insane that after everyone takes an experimental shot that has higher adverse reporting than all other vaccines combined in history and then a supporting signal of excess mortality and increases in LTD claims of 18-64 year olds, you’d like the first thing to do would be categorize all the illness by number of covid shots. Notice all the health outcomes by number is shots disappeared in mid 2022 when the vaccinated started really showing up in the reporting. During the pandemic of the unvaccinated phase, having the vaccinated excluded from the states from first shot until 14 days past the second shot left a lot of vaccine injuries and deaths out of the stats. But once the bulk of the vaccinated passed the 14 days after the 2nd shot and especially after the 3 rd shot really started to show up in vaccinated hospitalizations and deaths. Worst shot in history of VAERS, probably all time.
Great stop one thing at the expense of a greater problem. Just like the DTP vaccine study, again funded by govt not anti vaxxers, it was pretty good against infection of those three diseases, but it increases all cause mortality in the vaccinated by a multiple times, seems the shot impacted the immune system of the vaccinated immune from protecting against a wide range of other issues. The old risk / benefit analysis.
Oh and of course the case with MMR, benefit: less chance of an uncomfortable rash for about a week. Risk: autism.
Go ahead cite the fraudulent study the cdc conducted to get past the controversy caused by Wakefield observation (he never claimed it caused it, he said it needed more study) that showed in the cdc that MMR does cause autism and then dragged there feet reporting the results because they didn’t know quite how to cover up the results. So they have a shredder party but whistleblower Ken Thompson made copies that expose the fraud. Congress is so bought off they won’t even bring the whistleblower before congress so that he can be free to give testimony. As if there is that compelling of information and congress doesn’t even want to hear it. That’s an example of willful blindness.
In a way before that cdc study ever started it had to have only one outcome, the shots don’t cause anything, based on the CDC’s vaccine compensation schedule if it was concluded MMR caused autism there was the concern that the liability could go into the 100’s of billions and being in the late 90’s early 2000’s we still believed the govt couldn’t just print any amount of money that it wants. So as not to risk collapsing the economy those shots were only ever going to be proved to be safe.
Not according to the huge groundswell of evidence it isn’t.
Go on, cite a *credible* study showing vaccines are causally linked to measles shots if you can.
…I see you fell for the disinformation about the so called whistleblower Thompson. Do you think the highly flawed reanalysis by the antivaccine campaigner Brian Hooker counts? Not only is he severely conflicted, thereby excluding himself from conducting an unbiased analysis, his analysis was flawed and failed to show links to measles vaccines.
I read an article that said the average age of the patients was 3, with a range of 0-64. That would seem to indicate a significant number of the children affected would not have been old enough to get the MMR vaccine, 12-15 months
Well, we do of course want their kids to get vaccine, maybe we could have more success convincing unvaccinated women to get it to protect their baby after birth. (But since it's live, this must be before they are pregnant).
it isn't wakefield that caused your problems, paul. it was your thirst for absolute power and mandating medical products that got us here.
as long as the mrna medical products are on the market I don't blame parents for not wanting to take ANY of the vaccines on the childhood vaccine schedule. it is reasonable to assume that if paul thinks mrna vaccines are safe AND THEY ARE NOT. well, then the other vaccines this absolute psychopath thinks are safe might not be safe either.
it is fascinating how we are supposed to believe that paul can tell us how safe things are until theyre proven not to be then it's "oops, we didn't know. because science". well, sorry. that isn't good enough.
make pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, and doctors liable for any harms caused after vaccination. correlation might not equal causation but if a child has a stroke, intussesception, or dies after rsv vaccine, the likelihood there is a correlation to the recent vaccine can be assumed.
Measles is a completely preventable highly infectious disease that can kill children. The live attenuated vaccine works and is safe.
Can you provide the safety study that was used to license MMR?
Great, its "SAFE & EFFECTIVE"
don't question BIG BROTHER
what is going on around here?
Life saving medicine.
OR! people are making rational health decisions.
the fact is that measles can be caused by the vaccine, there are measles outbreaks even with 95%+ vaccination rates. moreover, due to absolutely horrendous practices by pharmaceutical company shills like paul, people can no longer trust the claims they make.
Vaccine caused measles doesn't, paralyze, kill, cause deafness, or mental retardation . Real measles does. Why risk that. So when your kid or your neighbors gets killed you can say"Im free" how thoughtful and caring !
measles doesn't do that. the vaccine does ALL of those things. I'm sure you don't care about the children damaged by the measles vaccine.. if a person wants it they should make the decision on puttign it into their body. if they don't want it no one should be forced or mandated to consume these shoddily made medical products.
now, for as long as mrna medical products remain on the market, no one can actually trust the medical product theyre getitng is not contaminated in some way or mistake is being made while admistering these shoddily made medical products.
no one can be forced to take these and no one should be prevented from attending school or any other tax funded activities for lack of vaccination.
you don't have to like it. but you will accept it going forward.
Here is a good summary of the damage measles does. It's based on the findings of the outbreaks of measles that took place in the US in the late 1980/90s, before ther second dose of vaccine was introduced as routine.
https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/189/Supplement_1/S4/823958
https://ibb.co/GxqKzfY
Please provide the RCT for this. That RCT must have a saline solution as the placebo. Anything less and you can go fuck off
https://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
What is the vaccination rate of the more than 10 million illegal immigrants that Biden has welcomed into the country? How can you pretend to have an honest analysis without even mentioning this?
please don't make this issue political. it isn't. paul does that and it really bothers me. those people coming to the country shouldn't be forced to be vaccinated anymore than you should. many of those people believe the same things your ancestors believed when they were coming and most of them were men too. you can be vigilant and not be obnoxious about it.
the fact is that immigration is contentious and it isn't a place to score points. I don't want mandates. I don't think mandates for ANYONE is appropriate. I'm on the left. I'm a biden supporter. I also think there is enough room for people. we will struggle as we always have. but that is life.
again, please don't use immigration as a means to score points. next thing you know paul will call for forced vaccination of those people too and that wouldn't help either.
I didn’t say anything about politics. I’m just calling out a supposed scientist who wants to shame everyone else for misinformation, while ignoring the biggest elephant in the room, because of politics. All of Covid from the beginning was politics, not science, and this only drives that realization home.
The “elephant” in the room that you describe (immigrant measles sources), is only one out of the 50 elephants in the room.
The others are all unvaxed US citizens returning from abroad having caught measles.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6817e1.htm?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
You should instead be insisting nobody travels abroad without being vaxed against measles. That would solve the problem.
Oh good. Mike S is here. As always, with the dumbest possible take.
You locking yourself in your basement forever would also solve the problem.
I think he is artificiali intelligence. Stock answers for everything. My opinion. He answered one of my concerns with data that nothing to do with the conversation
Mike S says he is an 'infectious diseases specialist'. That anagrams to 'Is a pseudoscientific lies asset'.
Which is certainly what he is!
I suspect you may be right. The absolute lack of logic is shocking. Just an automated encyclopedia of data, but only that data which supports his priors.
A.I.
Personal insults from you are a great way to show how badly you’ve lost the scientific argument.
YEP. A.I answering questions.
Pretty good. Mexican children (when I last checked the data a couple of years back) had higher MMR vaccination rates than US kids. Other countries? I’d have to check.
But your “point” is merely a distraction to drag people away from the fact that vaccination is highly protective against measles. The origin of measles in US outbreaks is almost always the result of an unvaccinated US citizen becoming infected abroad, returning to the US and infecting others in their community. We saw this with the large outbreak a few years ago in orthodox Jewish community in NYS for example.
No immigrants are necessary to explain what has been going on.
In the last bad measles year of 2019, fully 98% of index cases were in US citizens returned from abroad.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6817e1.htm?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
Was 2019 before or after the demented Marxist came to power and allowed 10M people of absolutely unknown vax status into the country, while at the same time trying to force companies to fire US citizens for not proving theirs?
Many studies have shown concern for under vaccinated foreign populations in our country.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9746503/
And I laugh at your utilization of data from the CDC for factual vaccine data.
Why would you dismiss all historic CDC data?
…Oh, I see, because it proves you wrong.
The CDC lied about the very nature of the virus on Day 1. They exposed themselves as a wholly corrupted apparatchik. In no way does it prove me wrong.
Of course you have zero proof CDC lied. Being wrong doesn't equal LIE BTW.
They were wrong, they continued to say wrong things after they knew they were wrong, and coerced media companies to sensor people they knew were right. But ok, they didn’t lie.
In any case, with their record of being wrong, Nothing that they say or publish can be trusted. Especially when they Refuse to own their wrongs.
https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/schools-centre-leicesters-measles-infections-9230316
From one city in the U.K.
https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/two-factors-causing-measles-cases-9046801
They do not know.
I have noticed that the pro vaccine front has adjusted their position on some hard facts about vaccines since Covid.
Vaccines are accepted now to not stop catching or spreading diseases.
Advocates are more careful now saying what mortality from disease is, as an example they aren’t stating any longer that measles are a death sentence citing example from 1900 era. The CDC’s graphs showing mortality rates dropping more than 90% prior to vaccine introduction are too wide spread now, they had to concede that.
Areas for the vaccine crowd to still work on. From COVID we learned the concept of dying with a disease rather than from a disease, the same will be true for chickenpox, measles etc. there is no kid that died with chickpox that wouldn’t be susceptible to almost anything, basically a health impaired person. These people are the ones that vaccines should be reserved for, the 1/1000 immune compromised person.
Another area for the vaccine crowd to work on is understanding that natural infection provides superior health benefits, as an example those with natural chickpox infection having lower rates of shingles later in life compared to the vaccinated.
Another item is the area of harms / adverse events from vaccines, the risk could be worth it for an immune compromised person but it’s not for a perfectly health person. Understand that the 1 or 2 cases per million adverse events claim if you follow it through is the number of awarded vaccine injury claims divided by the total number of vaccines given. If you’ve ever asked a question about a kid’s neurological ticks that followed MMR as an example you learn real quick there are significant barriers to reporting a concern and being taken seriously. They did the same thing to people that first asked, you think maybe this lung cancer is from smoking? Point is for every injury claim that is paid out it is the tip of the iceberg, the one or two per million claim is ridiculous.
The other thing we learned from Covid is that there are viable prophylactic and therapeutic steps that can be taken with disease. As an example vitamin D was not therapeutic for Covid but if you took it regularly before being exposed it seems to have been useful as there was basically no one in the ICU that had good vitamin D levels. And as documented in the 2005 paper in the national library of medicine that Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/
But they told people do nothing, wait till you get really sick before coming to the hospital, after there is anything we can do for you, very strange that guidance wasn’t given to minimize health complications from infection.
Let’s face it pharma has been misleading us for decades and as they play a more dominate role in everyone’s lives (an increasing percentage of GDP is being spent on health than ever before) our health continues to decline. Ever increasing rates of chronic disease go hand in hand with ever increasing use of drugs and vaccines. There’s other factors like processed food, but come on, so many of these health problems are autoimmune related and the one thing that absolutely can’t be included on the list of potential causes are the very products that intentionally stimulates your immune system. And now with mRNA it’s your own cells internationally growing a protein to be attacked by your own immune system.
Vaccines and drugs have been over used, there’s just too much money at stake to prevent that from happening, one day that will be accepted. Pharma knew vaccines were inherently dangerous, they were going to exit the business in the early 80’s because of it. That resulted in Reagan agreeing for the govt to take on the liability in the 1986 Vaccine Act, and ever since then pharma’s enthusiasm for vaccines can’t be stopped. Moderna’s vision with their DART plan is 48 hours from virus detection to mRNA shot ready for injection, what could possibly go wrong.
https://youtu.be/Ee5TNSIOeEI?si=1xpj7w_QWr6SYMhX
“ Another area for the vaccine crowd to work on is understanding that natural infection provides superior health benefits, as an example those with natural chickpox infection having lower rates of shingles later in life compared to the vaccinated.”
This is complete nonsense. Natural infection can produce better immunity against reinfection than vaccines do, but only for those who survive the ravages of the infection in the first place. For diseases like measles, the annual toll prevaccine was 450 dead kids, thousands of brain damaged kids, and tens of thousands of deaf kids.
Vaccines provide 98% probable lifelong measles immunity.
….Its a no brainer as to whether the vaccine should be used.
Secondly, those vaccinated against chickenpox have a very low risk of shingles later in life, much lower than those who had natural chickenpox. You only get shingles if you are infected with the virus. Lifelong risk for the infected is one in three.
The rest of your comment is filled with similar disinformation. Please desist.
Dr Offit, the ravages of death from chickpox? where are you sick children’s hospital. There isn’t a healthy kid that can’t handle chickpox.
400-500 measles deaths in 1962, what evidence do you have it would be the same now? Before you would allow people to focus on 1900 figures, everyone is onto the steep decline by the early 60’s. There was far less ability to treat people in the 60’s compared to now, it’s a fair assumption mortality would be much less.
And again like Covid it’s a situation of died with as much as it ever was a matter of died from. Just like in wildlife management diseases is recognized to take out primarily the sick and old. Stop scare mongering, the risk to healthy people is way less than the risk from the vaccine. But fear has been your number one playing card so I know how you don’t like to give it up.
I think the tide is turning, people are tired of having been misled for so long. You had everything wrong during Covid, you guys thought it would just side through the same as all the other vaccines, but doing the whole population at once rather than just the new cohort highlighted the fraud to where it wasn’t deniable. The whole vaccines prevent disease mantra, well you don’t claim that anymore, and with that out the window there is no social contract, it’s a personal choice, someone is doing nothing to put someone else at risk by not vaccinating.
I had chickenpox when I was nine months old. My grandmother told me how hard it was. I’ve also had shingles eight years ago. That as not fun and I’m so glad I had my child vaccinated against chickenpox. My friend’s husband dies of shingles. Unfortunately for him it went to his brain.
And of course those who are vaccinated against chickenpox have a very low incidence of shingles, since if you were succesfully vaccinated against chickenpox (the vaccine is around 90% effective), you will never get shingles.
Pre-CPox vaccoine there were around 100 deaths a year from chickenpox, and there are also around 100 deaths a year from shingles. Then there were the thousands of cases of brain-damaging encephalitis and pneumonitis that the virus also causes every year.
The vaccine rarely has problems, and the number of those who have died from from a CPox vaccine reaction since its introduction nearly 30 years ago could be counted in single figures.
Yes that sounds bad, and everyone I know would have sympathy for someone going through that. I support you in any decisions you make for yourself, that’s the way it should be. There will be tough cases tough cases without vaccinations, but there are reported risk from vaccination as well. It should be a personal choice. Society’s overall health has been on a long steady decline, something is driving it, there’s plenty of information that it could very well be excessive use of vaccines and drugs, enough that it should be on the table for discussion. But again irrespective of all that, it’s a free country, people must be able to decide what’s right for themselves.
It’s obvious that you don’t understand about public health. Vaccines have saved millions of lives. And you don’t understand how viruses work.
I would say you obviously haven’t looked into the history of disease prior to the introduction of vaccines and haven’t looked into the clinical trials of the products used on the public or the harms caused by those product and many other pharmaceuticals. There has been some wonderful drugs, but there have been more bad ones.
“400-500 measles deaths in 1962, what evidence do you have it would be the same now?”
Because the drop in deaths thanks to advanced medical care and nutrition plateaued out by the 1960s. In fact one could well argue we have poorer nutrition now, so maybe you are right…deaths might not have been the same, they could have been higher!
They should solicit a group of volunteers to do a study of vaxxd verse unvaxxed and follow them through pregnancy to 20 years old. See who is healthier overall, ear infections, asthma, food allergies, etc, autism of course, and a whole host of chronic illnesses. There’s plenty of people that would be more than happy to participate judging from the growth in the educated vaccines hesitant crowd. And given that vaccines don’t stop catching or transmitting disease we wouldn’t be risking anything for those that still wish to vaccinate.
Just take the whooping cough vaccine as an example, the vaccinated are super spreaders because they pack disease but they are just asymptomatic, they’d be better off knowing they are sick so they could remove themselves from a house that has a new baby in it. Same as polio vaccinated are proven to carry the virus in their stool. The guys in the lab don’t understand 10% of the immune system and have made a total mess of it.
Ok I have to get back to work so I can pay my share of the taxes the govt keeps wasting.
Volunteers for a vaxed versus unvaxed study… no confounding variables there then… 🤪
I bet that if people see one group is healthier than the other they will be more inclined to repeat what they are doing. How about a smoker verse non smoker trial, would that have the same no confounding variables issue?
Whooping cough is a bit like Covid in that respect, but those at most risk are infants who have fatality rates of up to one in 200.
Vax doesn’t stop infection, it stops disease and death. ….All good.
Does it matter if pertussis still circulates? Not really, if infants (and pregnant moms) are vaxed then you stop anyone dying.
Of course, you could stop vaccination, and let infants start dying again. That’s what you want, I guess.
The Natural infection crowd always OK to sacrifice a few kids, just not theirs. Let them skip measles vax, let their kids be brain damaged, deaf, dead, etc. Then prosecute them for manslaughter.
It’s the cdc, and yes save the vaccines for kids at risk from overall poor health. Leave the healthy ones alone.
https://www.cdc.gov/Mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4829a1.htm
Here’s a good report from the cdc documenting the decline in mortality from disease.
Yeah, good article. Like this bit…..
“Strategic vaccination campaigns have virtually eliminated diseases that previously were common in the United States, including diphtheria, tetanus, poliomyelitis, smallpox, measles, mumps, rubella, and Haemophilus influenzae type b meningitis (8). With the licensure of the combined diphtheria and tetanus toxoids and pertussis vaccine in 1949, state and local health departments instituted vaccination programs, aimed primarily at poor children. In 1955, the introduction of the Salk poliovirus vaccine led to federal funding of state and local childhood vaccination programs. In 1962, a federally coordinated vaccination program was established through the passage of the Vaccination Assistance Act--landmark legislation that has been renewed continuously and now supports the purchase and administration of a full range of childhood vaccines.
The success of vaccination programs in the United States and Europe inspired the 20th-century concept of "disease eradication"--the idea that a selected disease could be eradicated from all human populations through global cooperation. In 1977, after a decade-long campaign involving 33 nations, smallpox was eradicated worldwide--approximately a decade after it had been eliminated from the United States and the rest of the Western Hemisphere. Polio and dracunculiasis may be eradicated by 2000.”
https://x.com/livefreshfit/status/1780415471948280092?s=46
Here’s some links to historical morality rates, risk from disease was gone before vaccines came along.
Here’s a link to the historical impact of vaccination.
I can’t understand why you are in favour of some things that improve public health like nutrition and sanitation, but against others like vaccination.
It isn’t either/or, you know. Optimal outcome uses both.
You don’t forgo airbags just because you have seatbelts.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/209448
Have you seen the studies of overall health of unvaccinated kids compared to vaccinated ones? The vaccinated are orders of magnitude worse in so many chronic health issues. ear infections, asthma, allergies, etc parent unwittingly subject their kids to toxins like aluminum adjuvants, and then can’t make the connection. Chickenpox, any kid that is at risk from this will be at risk from so many things, an immune compromised person, save the vaccines for them. They will be better protected by people with natural immunity than by vaccines with less perfect immunity.
What studies?
Actually the chickenpox vaccine is highly unlikely to prevent infection with the human herpes virus 3, as no vaccine prevents infection. What the vaccine does is prevent serious illness as with every other vaccine.
If a person is infected with HHV3 then they may develop shingles later in life even after the chickenpox vaccine. This is why there’s a shingles vaccine as well.
Don’t forget that like all herpes viruses, HHV3 lies dormant in the nucleus of specific cells, in this case in nerve cells. HHV4 & 5, the causative pathogens for infectious mononucleosis, is in immune system cells. Under certain circumstances these latent viruses can become active, maybe without symptoms (astronauts returning from space have been found to have reactivated HHV3 and HHV4).
Here in the U.K. the NHS only offer the chickenpox vaccine to vulnerable children. The shingles vaccine is offered to all over 65-70 years of age. The reason being is that shingles can be very nasty in older people.
What i did notice when working as a nurse practitioner was that children were catching chickenpox early and some developed shingles as young as 8, I didn’t have chicken pox until I was 8.
VZv vaccine does indeed prevent primary infection; it is around 90% protective.
No primary infection = no latent infection of dorsal root ganglia in the CNS, so no shingles reactivation later on.
Shingles vaccine is given to those over 65/70 because that demographic have all had primary chickenpox when younger, and boosting immunity by vax helps prevent the latent virus reactivating.
Eventually the generations of younger people who had vaccine will get old, but very few will get shingles. It’s possible that in decades to come shingles vax is only needed for those who never had vaccination earlier in life.
According to the NHS website it is still possible to get chickenpox after the vaccine. Also how can you tell whether or not you’ve been infected post vaccination as there will be no diagnostic rash? You could become infected and only have a raised temperature, that will be written off as an infection of unknown viral origin.
Where are the immune cells that have been primed by the vaccine located?
https://www.nhs.uk/vaccinations/chickenpox-vaccine/
True, you could still get natural cpox and therefore also shingles (but only one in ten would be at risk of that one hopes).
AFAIK the vaccine stimulates both good humoral and cellular immunity, being a live vaccine. I expect the B and T cells are all located in the haematopoetic/lymphoid compartments, rather than the CNS itself. But immunity from the shingles vax stops re-emergence, so it must be effective at a neurological level somehow.
ETA: hopefully widespread universal vaccination could eliminate Cpx (and therefore shingles) and generate true herd immunity. But you’d need to vax more than 90/95% of children since the virus is very infectious, almost on a par with measles.
As with measles, which has a similar incubation period, I suspect a 95% uptake would be required.
WRT measles, I had measles as a child, not sure how old, but I was probably 5 or 6. In 2008 I had a measles IgG antibody check as I was starting in A&E (ED), the levels were still measurable some 50 years after the acute infection, this means either I had a massive initial viral load or I was reinfected multiple times over that 50 years. IgG has a half life of 21 days, there’s over 600 periods in 50 years which means the initial viral load was astronomical.
Unfortunately, the undifferentiated pushing of the COVID-vaccines from infant to elderly has fueled undifferentiated vaccine hesitancy in many people, as the suppression of open scientific debate pushes scepsis towards science.
Maybe we should start cleaning our own room, before we start blaming others.
Expect to see many more deaths from preventable diseases during the second Trump administration, which will begin in January of 2025. That's ironic because he was originally a vaccine booster.
Once that genii is out of the lamp it will not be stuffed back in easily no matter who succeeds Trump as Dictator of America. Such things take generations.
I weep for my country.
I weep for you. If anyone is to blame for the public’s lack of faith in our medical establishment (including vaccines), it is the fault of the experts and leaders who continue to lie.
Yeah, I’m weeping now with the current dictator we have.
https://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
Just a cautionary reminder that vaccines are useless in the BEST case
Antivax propaganda alert!
Provax corporate paid shill alert
I don’t understand the death rate here. Almost all children had measles prior to the introduction of the vaccine. Are we really saying it killed more than 1 in 100? In a modern, well nourished nation? In this paper link below, it was 1 in 1000 approx, immediately prior to the vaccine licensure. What on earth gave it such a high fatality rate in this outbreak? Seems fishy.
https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/189/Supplement_1/S1/820569#:~:text=From%201956%20to%201960%2C%20an%20average%20of%20450%20measles%2Drelated,reported%20cases)%20%5B2%5D.
He is referring to the case fatality rate of clinical measles during the outbreak. This is different from the infection fatality rate, which as you point out is more in the order of one in a few thousand.
What?! Measles is a symptomatic infection. The two numbers should be the same.
Not always. Judging by notifications, measles cases were heavily undercounted in the past.
How would you know? And you’ve just argued the opposite, in claiming that they used IFR in the 60s
What’s the difference between a case & an infection anyway? Remember there was no PCR in the 60s
Back in the 60s, measles was almost always a clinically diagnosed condition. It causes a very typical rash, often following very diagnostic prodromal features such as Koplik’s spots. They didn’t have the diagnostic tests to confirm these diagnoses…it’s likely there was a degree of misdiagnosis, but the main issue was that very mild cases would be regarded as not due to measles but perhaps some other nonspecific viral exanthem, and there were certainly many asymptomatic cases where the diagnosis of measles wouldn’t even be considered.
But… Epidemiological evidence from serological prevalence surveys suggested 90% of people had measles during childhood, which would work out at 2.5 million infections a year on average in children. But officially there were only around 500,000 notifications of clinical cases each year. That means the CFR in the 1960s was around one in a thousand, but the IFR would work out at around one in 5,000.
paul is always misstating facts. he was once called on it during one of his talks and I started noticing it. if you watch him enough you begin to notice when he takes things out of context. this story is one of those times. according to what actually happened a total of 9 children were forcibly vaccinated against the wishes of the parents. I'm not clear why.
what I do think is that we need more exemptions for parents and the law shouldn't be used for medical interventions of any kind. that must end. no doctor or public health official should have that power.
Quite!
What happened to these children? They should not have died from measles. Statistically, none of them should have.
I suspect many were left without medical care thanks to the religious dictats. A frequent cause of death in measles fatalities is secondary bacterial pneumonia, which is treatable with antibiotics/ICU care/respiratory support.
they were fine. some who were exposed to measles were not vaccinated and did not contract it. I'm always fascinated how paul leaves these facts out.
Where you there to know they were fine BOT?
I'm not a "bot". I'm a human being that has read, listened to paul, and his colleagues tell the story and I have also listened to and read reporting on the issue.
the children were just fine. many of them that were not vaccinated also were not infected. I'm not the one who made that claim. talk to the media. you can read about it too.
not liking reality doesnt make me a "bot".
Not liking reality..hmm.. avoiding reality...hmm? Well we live in reality so good luck with your depression.
We have here one more piece of evidence confirming an axiomatic statement: Just because some church or "church leader" utters directives to her/his "faithful followers" there is never a bit of assurance that said directives are not just pure B.S. -- be careful what/whom you believe in.
Yup. The same concept holds true for Saint Fauci and his Branch Covidians. There is never a bit of assurance that anything he said is not complete BS.
Other than the massive amount of evidence backing up what they say. That's the difference between science and faith.
Since when did they possess “massive evidence” for their wet market claims, or their “safe and effective” or the stupid “6 foot rule”. They still expect you to accept their tripe as a matter of faith.
Mass evidence of FRAUD.
Yep mass evidence of Kremlin disinformation. Comrade!
Kremlin disinformation? Comrade? Are you delusional?
Bot alert
Thank you for the history lesson. Always appreciate your insight. Sensible Medicine. Not so sensible comments.
Del Bigtree is a good man, it’s not easy being a contrarian, he came to be in the role he’s in by coincidence, he did not set out to take on this fight. He was on cruise control, everything was going his way and then he jeopardizes all that to be stigmatized by people like you, I don’t think so. You somehow equate what he’s doing was a plan to extract rents from a fraudulent venture. You know who you’re describing when you describe that, pharma.
You know it would be great if a guy like you would go on Del’s show and have a civilized conversation. This matter needs to be resolved, we keep adding shots to the childhood schedule and rates of chronic diseases keep going up, it’s literally as obvious as cigarettes (same type of correlations in multiple unconnected environment, etc.) meets the Bradford Hill criteria. People will look back on history and say they were literally poisoning themselves, no different than the way we look back on the Romans with their plumbing. They will look back and say how could they be so stupid.
How could talking about a topic be controversial. You do realize that at each time in history the ones refusing to engage with and guilty of censoring their critics / skeptics are recognized as the ones that were wrong. There has been no issue where talking about the negative aspects of something was as taboo as vaccines and could result in you being finished. pharma and their devoted apostles are obviously on the wrong side of history. Will maybe climate change.
It’s like the climate crisis (may as well get another topic on the table) the one thing the 97% of scientists can all agree on is not getting their funding cancelled. Just like pharma, go along, keep your mouth shut or forget ever qualifying for a grant, it’s the most corrupt enterprise ever set in motion, right up there with the military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about, the two are actually two peas in a pod, the same institution investors control the whole works along with the media, ever wonder why they are always on board reporting what the companies do?
Anyway we see the world differently, that’s obvious, and we’re both going to work to further our views, that’s alright isn’t it?
I didn’t get past the first (dishonest) sentence.
All Dr Offitt points out is the association with measles deaths to lack of vaccination. It's causal actually. Personally I hope a lot of Anti Vaxxers chose to go unvax so we can "cull the herd!" Cool thing about measles is you can completely get over it, then 7-10 years later get an uncurable neurological disease.
That’s kind of a harsh position, you do realize that vaccinated people catch and spread disease, just like with the Covid shots. Like whooping cough the vaccinated are super spreaders being asymptomatic. You obviously haven’t looked into it.
Whooping cough is not a live vaccine, it's impossible to Shed! You obviously can't admit to being wrong.
I didn’t say they are shedding the vaccine, they just catch whooping cough after vaccination, it’s one of the least effective vaccines there is
Least effective you say, not me, and still safer than natural pertussis infection. But that's just facts
https://www.pnas.org/cgo/doi/10.1073/pnas.1314688110
It’s a paper that was even funded by pharma, but the results were so conclusive that vaccines don’t protect against the spreading of whooping cough it was the only conclusion they could put forward. If you’ll read it the vaccinated have asymptomatic protection only meaning they are superspreaders. Morality from whooping cough dropped off to nothing before vaccination just like measles and scarlet fever which has never had a vaccine.
“ Morality (sic!) from whooping cough dropped off to nothing before vaccination”
Nope, sorry. Prior to vaccination there were an average of 4,000 deaths from pertussis per year.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/209448
Pertussis is one of the least effective vaccines at preventing infection (though there are some worse than it such as tetanus), but it works very well at preventing clinical disease in children.
…Way to go, vaccines!
The point is it does not stop catching or spreading disease. In fact the vaccinated are a greater risk because they don’t know they have it. It’s a pharma funded paper, you think it would get published without the standard line well it helps in some way or another.
I saw your comment calling Wakefield a liar. That confirms you’re not interested in searching for truth, you’re committing the equivalent of a trial that end in a witch burning. The good news is the truth alls is discovered in the end and Covid caused people to pull back the curtain. You’re starting to lose this struggle in society, you’re losing people at a rapid rate and eventually that trend will go vertical. So short of a plan to physically strap people down to inject them a lot less people will be taking the products of this pharmaceutical fraud. But you guys shot yourself in the foot with Covid.
You think the point is that pertussis vaccine doesn’t prevent infection, but that’s not the point at all.
Infection in adults is pretty harmless, and it’s only serious in kids, BUT IF THEY ARE VACCINATED THEY DON’T GET ILL.
It’s irrelevant if the vaccinated catch infection and spread it. And who says they are superspreaders if they get infected? They aren’t ill, so they don’t cough, which cuts spread compared to the unvaccinated who get infection. It’s true the asymptomatic infected *might* expose more people to the bacterium because they don’t know they are infected, but this increased risk is likely well compensated for by the fact they don’t cough, and so transmit less.
And the MAIN point is that the vaccines prevent disease and death. Don’t forget that.
PS: Wakefield is a proven fraud (and therefore a liar). Don’t forget that either.
As long as the people who chose to be unvaccinated pay for the costs of treating a preventable disease, go for it!
Thanks Dr Offitt for promoting reason, not nonsense!
can we ask this question:
Did the U.S. Death Rate from Measles Decline by over 98% Before Introduction of a Measles Vaccine?
You can.
Yes it did….Thanks to improved medical care and better nutrition. But cases didn’t.
But then mortality improvements got stuck, with 450 or so deaths happening each year on average in the US.
In other countries, it didn’t decline much prevaccine because good medical care etc was lacking. But when vaccine was introduced, cases and mortality dropped like a stone.
Cases, who cares about cases, that’s the reason we ran over a cliff during Covid. Those natural infections in healthy people are a benefit for all of society especially the immune compromised. The mass vaccination is biting us in the ass, it destroyed our chance of ever creating herd immunity. Sickness levels are increasing, bet it’s in the vaccinated, the health authorities pulled all the stats by number of shots in mid 2022 when it became blatantly obvious that the vaccinated were having more hospitalizations and deaths on a per capita basis than the unvaccinated in each age cohort. It was the biggest public health screw up of all time. And now those that keep going for boosters have high IgG4 levels which go along with IgG4-RD. Also they are so immune focused that when there is a mutation that isn’t specific to the spike protein it’s going to be a blind side for an immune system that’s been put in park. We’re seeing the start of this now with JN.1 holding in as the dominate variant. The virus is going to have to proliferate within the host to continue its linage if it can’t achieve this by going from host to host with ever more infectious variants, this will present as a more virulent form of the covid. But we’ll be led to believe it’s an entirely new diseases, you know disease X which is simply the consequence of managing the initial virus wrong by attacking it with a non sterilizing vaccine during an active pandemic. All the mass vaccination did imposing immune pressure on the disease during an outbreak was the equivalent of a population wide gain of function experiment. But there was money to be made and nothing was going to get in the way of that. The unvaccinated of even moderately good health that haven’t been subject to the immune focusing caused by vaccination will sail through disease X with no problem.
Covid is not over, it has one more wave to go.
People with comorbidities are more likely to be vaccinated. They still die from comorbidities not the vaccine. Maybe review Post Hoc Fallacy because you fell into that trap it seems. https://youtu.be/Qnu8NvnRmFY?si=nwI3oyGCcCV2VBKg. Good video for you
It’s like the healthy bias, people about to die don’t get vaccinated and then it’s counted like an unvaccinated death. People that want vaccines should take them by all means and not worry about those that don’t.
Bot alert....healthy Bias. Just keep making stuff up.
What makes you think I’m a bot? Healthy Vaccinee Bias is a real thing, you can find it in text books, journals like NEJM.
Vaccines (especially experimental ones) should only be used on people that are deemed to be at risk, covid is the perfect example of a complete failure in public policy giving them to kids that were not at risk from the disease.
You see all the sick people around, you know the long COVID, overwhelming vaccinated. It’s insane that after everyone takes an experimental shot that has higher adverse reporting than all other vaccines combined in history and then a supporting signal of excess mortality and increases in LTD claims of 18-64 year olds, you’d like the first thing to do would be categorize all the illness by number of covid shots. Notice all the health outcomes by number is shots disappeared in mid 2022 when the vaccinated started really showing up in the reporting. During the pandemic of the unvaccinated phase, having the vaccinated excluded from the states from first shot until 14 days past the second shot left a lot of vaccine injuries and deaths out of the stats. But once the bulk of the vaccinated passed the 14 days after the 2nd shot and especially after the 3 rd shot really started to show up in vaccinated hospitalizations and deaths. Worst shot in history of VAERS, probably all time.
So long Covid mostly = vaccine injury.
Great stop one thing at the expense of a greater problem. Just like the DTP vaccine study, again funded by govt not anti vaxxers, it was pretty good against infection of those three diseases, but it increases all cause mortality in the vaccinated by a multiple times, seems the shot impacted the immune system of the vaccinated immune from protecting against a wide range of other issues. The old risk / benefit analysis.
If you stop measles cases, you stop kids dying from it. Vax does the job.
Oh and of course the case with MMR, benefit: less chance of an uncomfortable rash for about a week. Risk: autism.
Go ahead cite the fraudulent study the cdc conducted to get past the controversy caused by Wakefield observation (he never claimed it caused it, he said it needed more study) that showed in the cdc that MMR does cause autism and then dragged there feet reporting the results because they didn’t know quite how to cover up the results. So they have a shredder party but whistleblower Ken Thompson made copies that expose the fraud. Congress is so bought off they won’t even bring the whistleblower before congress so that he can be free to give testimony. As if there is that compelling of information and congress doesn’t even want to hear it. That’s an example of willful blindness.
In a way before that cdc study ever started it had to have only one outcome, the shots don’t cause anything, based on the CDC’s vaccine compensation schedule if it was concluded MMR caused autism there was the concern that the liability could go into the 100’s of billions and being in the late 90’s early 2000’s we still believed the govt couldn’t just print any amount of money that it wants. So as not to risk collapsing the economy those shots were only ever going to be proved to be safe.
“Risk: autism”
Not according to the huge groundswell of evidence it isn’t.
Go on, cite a *credible* study showing vaccines are causally linked to measles shots if you can.
…I see you fell for the disinformation about the so called whistleblower Thompson. Do you think the highly flawed reanalysis by the antivaccine campaigner Brian Hooker counts? Not only is he severely conflicted, thereby excluding himself from conducting an unbiased analysis, his analysis was flawed and failed to show links to measles vaccines.
Can we see some valid evidence?
I read an article that said the average age of the patients was 3, with a range of 0-64. That would seem to indicate a significant number of the children affected would not have been old enough to get the MMR vaccine, 12-15 months
Well, we do of course want their kids to get vaccine, maybe we could have more success convincing unvaccinated women to get it to protect their baby after birth. (But since it's live, this must be before they are pregnant).
it isn't wakefield that caused your problems, paul. it was your thirst for absolute power and mandating medical products that got us here.
as long as the mrna medical products are on the market I don't blame parents for not wanting to take ANY of the vaccines on the childhood vaccine schedule. it is reasonable to assume that if paul thinks mrna vaccines are safe AND THEY ARE NOT. well, then the other vaccines this absolute psychopath thinks are safe might not be safe either.
it is fascinating how we are supposed to believe that paul can tell us how safe things are until theyre proven not to be then it's "oops, we didn't know. because science". well, sorry. that isn't good enough.
make pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, and doctors liable for any harms caused after vaccination. correlation might not equal causation but if a child has a stroke, intussesception, or dies after rsv vaccine, the likelihood there is a correlation to the recent vaccine can be assumed.