Do I think parents should vaccinate their children against many diseases? Sure, particularly when the benefit exceeds the risk. But stop forcing people into participating in medical procedures they don't want. Government along with regulatory agencies, doctors and the pharmaceutical industry have proven time and time again they cannot be trusted. The authoritative approach only makes things worse.
One (of many reasons) we moved out of NYC/NY was this issue. Its that important to us. We had the home school option but saw early the woke progressives were dragging the state down, better to abandon that hell hole entirely
I always ask the provax idiots: given that vaccinated people still transmit and contract the very illnesses they were vaccinated against:
If your child is in the 5% unvaccinated then “my” child is protecting yours (measles)
What you neglect to realise is that pertussis is very very dangerous to neonates, particularly those with a gestation age of 34 weeks or lower. This is why pregnant women are vaccinated against pertussis in the 3rd trimester.
Other respiratory viruses are equally dangerous for neonates, including measles and rubella.
Whooping cough is not controllable through herd immunity, natural or vaccine induced. So it’s an awful example to use.
You should stick to diseases that 1. Exhibit cyclical natural herd immunity, and 2. which have effective sterilising vaccines. These tend to be “live” viral vaccines.
“Particularly” when the benefit exceeds the risk? Surely, ONLY if the benefit exceeds the risk.
The problem is getting the information to make that decision. It is simply not available, in the form of randomised prospective placebo controlled studies.
I'm not so sure you know what youre talking about and the pharmaceutical industry apologia presented as "data" no longer gives me any confidence.
we need studies done by third parties and absolutely impartial and very strict agencies that are monitored by the public and other entities. we can no longer leave any of these issues to pharmaceutical industry hacks that capture institutions and finance the same studies that are meant to be critical of their products.
Did you read the article you cited from the Global Vaccine Data Netwrork on side effects in 100 million vaccine recipients?
...I guess not, since it showed only what we already know, namely that the mRNA vaccines can rarely cause myo/pericarditis (0.006% excess in young males) and the vector vaccines like Astra/Zeneca can rarely cause cerebral venous sinus thombosis (excess rate of 0.00025%) but not mRNA vaccines.
Fractionally higher rates than expected for some other conditions were noted, but not at a level thought to indicate a safety signal concern (eg Guillain Barre syndrome with vAZ vaccine at 0.0001%), and other recorded issues appear to be noise rather than signal.
However, I commend you citing a scientific paper for once rather than some substack drivel or something off Rumble. Pity the science didn't show what you wanted it to though...
Yes there is a risk of myocarditis following the COVID19 vaccines, but it is mild and treatable in the vast majority of cases. It has also been associated with the smallpox vaccine, influenza vaccine, diphtheria,tetanus and polio triple vaccine and the diphtheria, tetanus pertussis vaccine.
ITP, occurs in up to 10% of people on heparin. The anti platelet factor 4, which prevents platelets from starting the coagulation cascade forms a complex with heparin, this triggers an immune response with antibodies that are against the antiPF4, which means that all antiPF4 proteins are subject to antibody attachment.
Febrile seizures are due to raised temperature, can occur in any infant and don’t cause any long term problems, children usually grow out of them by the time they’re 5 or 6, although my youngest had one when he was 8, following an ear infection. They don’t precipitate epilepsy, but are alarming the first time your child has one.
Having worked in paediatric A&E I have encountered my fair share of them.
mRNA injections have only been on the market for about two years, and according to the FDA Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) database, mRNA “vaccines” have been named the primary suspect in over 1.5 million adverse event reports, of which there are >20,000 heart attacks and >27,000 cases of myocarditis and pericarditis just in the USA alone. Worldwide numbers would be greater. According to many references, including an FDA-funded study out of Harvard, VAERS reports represent fewer than 1 percent of vaccine adverse events that actually occur.
SO DO THE MATH
>GBS is more likely to follow campylobacter food poisoning.
I often wondered what the religious basis was for religious exemptions, since I'm pretty sure none of the sacred texts of any religion mentions vaccines. A brief Google search indicates that the basis is that vaccines interfere with "divine providence." (link below) That would be true of every medical treatment, so clearly there is a logical contradiction going on which legislation and courts should recognize but apparently don't. But in my experience, pointing out logical errors, as well as labeling people "selfish," are not effective strategies for changing minds. I have a dear and loving friend who is an Evangelical and embodies care for others. But she is terrified of vaccines because she has been convinced that they caused her son's autism, and she did not vaccinate the 3 kids born after the son with autism. When a mutual friend told her that she needs to think of other children's lives and not just her own (the mutual friend had a baby grandchild who had to fly to a hospital for treatment for a rare disease and was too young to be vaccinated), my religious friend said with what appeared to be genuineness, "I hadn't thought of that." She seemed truly troubled. I think these conversations need to be had with compassion and kindness IRL with those they trust for any change to occur.
You should not put your child at risk to protect other people’s children from a theoretical harm. That is deeply unethical. It sounds like some kind of human sacrifice lite.
You should only put your child at risk if the benefits TO THE CHILD outweigh that risk.
Regarding the risk vs. benefit ratio, luckily my friend is beginning to understand that she was lied to by Andrew Wakefield, after she saw all the evidence uncovered by Brian Deer. Fortunately my friend is also deeply concerned for the welfare of ALL children. FYI, I will not respond any further because, as I said, such conversations are only productive IRL and I suspect you are "immune" to empirical evidence.
Did you even read what I wrote? She has 5 kids total, 2 vaccinated (including the son with ASD), and 3 unvaccinated children. One of her unvaccinated children has a learning disability, and her most cognitively accomplished child is her oldest, who is vaccinated. I'm not creative enough to make up such a story, and quite frankly, I don't give a sh*t whether you believe it or not.
I noticed you didn’t deny the existence of the Back to the VAX parent group. Are all those parents also imaginary? You cannot possibly prove what you are claiming and I can, but only IRL. You just helped me prove my original point that productive conversations can only occur IRL, where I could introduce you to my non-imaginary friend and her five kids whom you don’t want to believe exist because their existence threatens everything you believe in. I hope you find your way out of your bubble at some point, and I wish you the best.
Well I just use the prescribing information that is provided with the vaccine. To assess safety, I look for placebo controlled studies - there usually isn’t any unfortunately. And then to assess benefit. I look for reductions in whatever harm the vaccine is purported to reduce - and how long that benefit lasts.
It’s surprisingly hard to get the data to make a proper risk benefit assessment.
I don’t think I’m immune to empirical evidence at all. I just can’t find any that is free from bias in most cases.
The only time that a clinical trial compared vaccinated with deliberately unvaccinated was in the 1950’s when Salk compared those two groups to determine the effectiveness of his poliovirus vaccine. As soon as a vaccine is determined to be safe and effective in a stage 3 trial, the participants have to be unblinded and the vaccine offered to those in the placebo arm. The placebo is usually a well known and widely used vaccine rather than saline.
How about rigging RCTs by substituting a previous version of the vaccine under test or another vaccine in whole for the INERT saline solution standard placebo?
Any ethics issue there?
How about refusing to release clinical trial data for 55 years forcing a judge to intervene
With regards to Pfizer clinical data, this is not what you think it is. There was a FOIA request asking for the information. At that time pfizer hadn’t sufficient staff to collect and collate the data, they estimated that at that time it would take 75 years to answer the FOIA with their staffing levels at that time.
By not vaccinating a child against measles is putting that child at risk of serious health problems either now or in the future. The measles virus knocks the immune system for 6 by suppressing it, leaving the child vulnerable to other infections, for several months if not years.
The aim of any vaccine is to prevent serious illness or death in an individual, community immunity is a byproduct of that which may not be possible for certain pathogens.
Therefore, you are not vaccinating your child to protect other people’s children, you are doing so to protect your child and potentially yourself (hence is a selfish act); but if 95% of a population are vaccinated then that collection of individual selfish acts mutates into population wide altruism, which protects those people who cannot have the vaccination for various physiological, not philosophical, reasons.
no. it doesn't and there is no way for you to know. the fact is that different formulations and ingredients are used in the medical products of today and there is a medical and pharmaceutical industry intent on "treating" but not curing people of illness and in some cases inducing other health complications so they can siphon money from people from birth to death.
And there are for profit health insurance companies or national healthcare systems that pay for vaccines and pay for healthcare expenses of their clients.....and their world-wide experience is that vaccines are safe, effective, and often save more money through better health then they costed.
There’s a clear threat of an airborne attack on Florida from a rogue nation, the United States Airforce and Navy launch whatever aircraft to stave off the attacking aircraft. Several US aircraft are shot down in the ensuing dogfight.
By your logic you wouldn’t be happy for a few to suffer arm for a greater good, especially if the interlopers were carrying a nuclear weapon targeted at Miami.
your ethics are not ethics. your ethics are pharamceutical industry talking points meant to force people into circular logic so they must answer ridiculous hypotheticals and choose between quite meaningless circumstances instead of examining reality which you are loathe to address.
the fact is that ethics demands that government ensure safety and err on the side of caution against injecting people with shoddily made medical products.
like it or don't like it youre gonna learn to live with that.
Ok cool. Well in that case, can we kill you, and give your heart, lungs, liver and kidneys to a bunch of other people? Maximising outcomes is what matters to YOU right? Save 4 lives for your pathetic one life?
1. not all vaccines are 100% effective, in fact none are, leaving some vaccinated individuals vulnerable
2. There are vulnerable individuals who cannot be vaccinated because of factors like age (too young) or immunosuppression (genetic, chemo, bone marrow and organ transplants etc)
3. There are those who are allergic to vaccine components and can’t be vaccinated.
4. There are those without the wherewithal to get vaccinated.
To all these people you say :F**k you; your lives don’t matter”.
2. Who cares. Thats their problem. We can add ourselves to those vulnerable numbers who wont get ANY childhood vaccine case closed
3. Again a YOU problem
4. Again a YOU problem
>To all these people you say :F**k you; your lives don’t matter”.
ABSOLUTELY
Your examples above lend weight to my statement.
"if you believe vaccines work AND your children are vaccinated - WHAT THREAT IS MINE TO YOURS"???
"if you believe vaccines work AND your children are vaccinated - WHAT THREAT IS MINE TO YOURS"???
"if you believe vaccines work AND your children are vaccinated - WHAT THREAT IS MINE TO YOURS"???
So after establishing 1-3 above, that there are a group of children/peoples who cant be vaccinated. Ergo it shouldnt matter if I dont vaccinate mine own. Simply add them to the group
In truth none of it matters. Regarding my kids: NO syringe will pierce their flesh NOT WHILE I DRAW BREATH
I care not only about my own vaccinated children, but all the others who are unvaccinated for the reasons above.
I’m assuming my vaccinated children have immunity against disease as like measles, but I might be wrong and they could still be vulnerable if they were in the tiny fraction of those who don’t respond to the shots.
If your unvaccinated kids bring measles into the community, then others with no measles immunity will sicken (and could die).
That’s why your (and others’) unvaxed kids pose a risk….they are the primary victims and spreaders of the disease.
you don't care about anyone but making money for pharmaceutical companies. the fact is that it is NOT a choice between caring for others or saying another individula's life does not matter.
the people youre referencing can mask, and stay in settings that allow them to remain safe by guaging their level of risk and what level of risk they want to take. society is not forced to inject themselves with shoddily made medical product "because reasons". that doesn't equate to insulting others. it only means you don't want to consume certain medical products.
>>Eighteen students there have not been vaccinated against pertussis, but none of them has caught the illness, school spokesman Ari Engelberg said
So the unvaccinated are not the threat - YOU ARE
Same issues played out during CONvid 2020-2023. Every one getting the booster kept getting sick OVER AND OVER AND OVER. A problem the unvaccinated didnt suffer
And regarding your story, Thats b.s. You made it up
No parent I know, who reverses a decision on vaccination turns back to it.
After an adverse event damaged kid most parents go crazy gathering information ESPECIALLY from sources critical of vaccination
For her to then birth and raise 2 other kids who are unvaccinated she would have clearly seen the massive difference in health and cognitive state of the unvaxxed kids. It would only reinforce her stance not cause her to question it.
First, this story was primarily about the MMR vaccine, as measles is the most contagious of the vaccine-preventable diseases and an outbreak of measles is what we are now experiencing due to all these school vaccine exemptions. Your link to a story about whooping cough, for which immunity from vaccination wanes fairly quickly, is irrelevant because immunity from the MMR vaccines lasts decades, if not lifelong (link #1 below). Second, regarding my friend, no, she's very real, and I do not appreciate being called a liar. She is not only a person who takes her religious beliefs seriously (she actually cares about others), but she will also listen to evidence if she trusts the person providing it. She had a daughter BEFORE giving birth to the son with autism, and her daughter was vaccinated. If it makes sense to do cognitive comparisons among her 5 kids and make vaccination decisions based on who appeared to be the most cognitively capable, then she should have had them all vaccinated because the oldest vaccinated child is the only one who graduated from college (the 3 unvaccinated did not attend college and one of them has a learning disability, despite being totally unvaccinated). Of course, that would be a ridiculous comparison. After reading about all the evidence of Andrew Wakefield's lies, my friend was actually resentful about being lied to. Since her kids are now grown, it's their decision whether to get vaccinated. As for your claim, "No parent I know, who reverses a decision on vaccination turns back to it." Perhaps that just means that you should expand your horizons because the fact is, there is an entire big group of "Back to the Vax" parents (2nd link).
>First, this story was primarily about the MMR vaccine, as measles is the most contagious of the vaccine-preventable diseases and an outbreak of measles is what we are now experiencing due to all these school vaccine exemptions.
Measles Outbreak Traced to Fully Vaccinated Patient for First Time
“Measles Outbreak Traced to Fully Vaccinated Patient for First Time”
🤣😂🤣
Do you understand what “for the first time” means?
….it means that in nearly 50 years of vaccination for measles this had never been described before. The phenomenon was so rare that a single outbreak (of 3 cases) due to a vaccinated person merited an entire journal article!
In their OWN words - doctors and medical researchers tell you how little they know about vaccines and adverse reactions.
And of course if vaccines were truly safe and effective - the national childhood vaccination act/PREP act/CARES act wouldnt indemnify these manufacturers
And we all saw the show play out over the 2020-2023 Convid show
Am not here to convince you. I could care less what you think. You are paid to be here.
I am here to make certain that anyone else that wanders upon this thread (a concerned parent or guardian) - knows that there alternate sources of information other than television and the pharmaceutical giants and their 3 letter agency cronies
Sorry, you do not know what you are talking about. I am a viral immunologist, retired medical school professor. I have done vaccine research, cancer drug discovery and more. Many trials do not employ placebos because that would be to deny a patient care, which is unethical. Don't be so arrogant about things you clearly have no experience in.
How about the ethics of corrupting a trial? Of decieving ignorsnt parents?
The ONLY reason drug manufacturers replace inert saline solutions with a previous version of the vaccine or another vaccine or active substance is to downplay/reduce the adverse events count.
Its pure corruption.
But that raises no red flags for you.
The national chilhood vaccination act, the PREP and CARES act indemflnifies vaccine manufactures but again no ethics red flags for hypocrite.
Stop stalling - go debate and humiliate them. They are publicly accessible on various forums. They are recognized as two board certified MEDICAL DOCTORS in public and private practice and one is a researcher to boot
Again - save your silly little comments. You are stalling. If you truly believe what you claim to - you would bugger off to their respective public channels and issue a debate against the matter. Then return here and show us your triumph
"The ONLY reason drug manufacturers replace inert saline solutions with a previous version of the vaccine or another vaccine or active substance is to downplay/reduce the adverse events count."
Still fails 7th grade science--saline is NOT inert.
Still fails 5th grade reading--most people can read and understand what adverse events are.
No CT has done the right thing for pharmaceutical shareholders and sentenced their innocent children to chronic illnesses, stunted growth and mental retardation
My grown up children are all fully vaccinated, between them they have 3 first degrees and two higher degrees. One’s a teacher, his wife is a paediatric consultant, one’s a civil servant, her husband has a higher degree and one’s a chef, his wife is an ITU nurse.
I have had vaccines including polio, diphtheria, tetanus, hepatitis A, hepatitis B, typhoid and I have two first degrees and a higher qualification.
Ergo, vaccines have no affect on mental capacity.
One of my sons is shorter than his siblings (5’9” & 6’1”) but he was 6 weeks premature,
Ergo vaccines do not stunt growth.
Measles can cause encephalitis. Measles does have a negative effect on the immune system.
Mumps in adult males can cause sterility or at best can cause swollen and painful testes, as there is no immune system in the male reproductive organs.
your children were also vaccinated long ago when ethics were viewed far differently than they are now. in additon, vaccine ingredients change over time. each time these ingredients change their should be NEW testing and safety evaluation, the fact that there is not is and should be a huge red flag for everyone.
My grandchildren however have been vaccinated at various times over the last 8 years.
Why test if the excipients change? The solvent is usually water for injection. The excipients that may be present in U.K. MMR vaccines could be neomycin or glycerin.
wrong again. the ingredients have changed as have adjuvents and stabilizers. we need NEW testing on every change to these medical products or they shouldn't change at all. otherwise there is no way to confirm these things are safe.
I nursed a patient who developed angioedema after taking a particular medication, one that they’d been taking for a decade or so.
Every person is unique in their immune system, except for identical twins, this means that every one responds differently to everything that they encounter in life. There are gross similarities in ethnic groups for examples. You carry a T cell receptor and a B cell receptor for every pathogen that has existed and will exist in the future.
I cannot speak for the USA, as I said I’m British. As a former nurse practitioner I am very aware of the potential side effects of different medications, and their interactions.
I saw a patient who developed angioedema after taking a medication they’d been having for decades without a problem.
You cannot generalise as everyone is unique, and that most definitely is true where the immune system is concerned.
I already ordered the 10th anniversary book and companion guide. Going to be my summer reading when I travel. Theyve added an extra 200+ pages to the 2013 version
For more than a year, folks have been posting the references from the book so anyone that bothers to read the words will see the book is just a bunch of lies.
NOT ALL trials can use a placebo. Many can, NOT ALL can. And retrospective data, such as those used in phase IV trials never use any placebo. Clinical trials are complex and their strategies depend on many variables.
placebo controlled trials MUST be included or you cannot claim that vaccines do not cause ________ because there is no way to know. what is unethical is lying by omission and causing harm with shoddily made medical products that are then forced on the public.
we're not talking about diabetic patients. stop comparing apples and cars.
we're talking about shoddily made vaccines that are actually causing harms and for some reason the only time side effects are acknowledged is when people put it together themselves and force the pharmaceutical industry and government to recognize what they KNOW is happening.
your pharmaceutical corporation apologetics was so much more effective before 2020. go try them on someone else, pal.
Total nonsense. Your logic is warped and knowledge about the adverse effects is too. You clearly do NOT follow the medical science. You follow the quacks....And your summary about the effects of the vaccines are NOT supported by the article AT ALL!! Shame on you for disseminating lies!!
You don't know what you are talking about first off! Get off the placebo control trials first--they often cannot be done and often are unethical to do! You can find clincal safety data on the WHO web site for internal studies and the CDC web site for US studies and on posts on my blog Coronavirus News & Views. But basically from your request you do not know how different clinical trials are conducted so stop asking your question. it shows your naivete.
It is often unethical to use placebos in efficacy trials, mainly because it is unethical to give nothing rather than the accepted standard of care as a comparator group.
Of course if you could insist on placebos if you wished, you’d face another Tuskegee disaster.
If the standard policy is for a particular vaccine to be used to prevent a disease (eg plasma derived Hep B vaccine) and a new one is developed (eg recombinant Hep B vaccine), then the efficacy studies on the new vaccine should compare it with the previous standard of care vaccine (the plasma derived Hep B vax).
….Simple.
If you develop a vaccine where there has not been a vaccine available previously (eg for say RSV), then you indeed have nothing to compare it to except “nothing”…ie a placebo. The efficacy study should compare RSV versus placebo.
No, we are not getting off the placebo issue. You dont get to determine what subjects are up for discussion.
The corruption of RCTs by substituting another active substance (another vaccine or the previous version of the vaccine under test) for the inert saline solution standard tells you all you need to know
Could you explain the ethics of the Prevnar 7 trials where they used an investigational meningococcal vaccine as their placebo/Control to determine Efficacy and safety of the Prevnar 7 vaccine.
Both of which were never tested for their carcinogenic or mutagenic potential or impairment of fertility.
According to the package insert they compared the Sid’s deaths in the Prevnar group to the “control/placebo” meningococcal vaccine and used the background Sid’s death rate of the vaccinated/unvaccinated to determine Prevnar was “Safe”.
The conjugated pneumococcal vaccine was shown to be highly effective at preventing invasive pneumococcal disease and other adverse outcomes as compared to the comparator group which contained components with no anti-pneumococcal activity (ie acting as the placebo).
For safety studies, an inactive comparator without biological activity is preferable, obviously.
Do you think the Prevnar trials were ethical in using an investigational vaccine as the placebo given the fact that the standard of care for pneumococcal disease at the time was antibiotics?
And was it ethical to determine the safety as well?
I deleted the last comment since it was insinuating a response that was not your own.
Do you see the hypocrisy of your double standards.
You can’t have It both ways by claiming it is unethical to use a Saline placebo in an efficacy trial when using an investigational vaccine will have the same outcome since neither could effect the efficacy of the target antigen.
Which Leads to the only logical reason on why they choose a vaccine over a saline placebo and that is to hide the adverse events
I haven’t said it is unethical to use a saline placebo in efficacy trials. Please don’t twist my words.
It’s ethical. It’s also ethical to use placebos that are immunologically inactive wrt to the active ingredient/disease under investigation.
The effects of the vaccine on the disease will become apparent.
But when a disease already has an effective treatment or vaccine in play, one should test the new vaccine against the current standard of care/vaccination.
Safety is what most people are concerned about not efficacy.
Please explain how an investigational meningococcal vaccine used as a placebo is any different from a saline placebo. Both have 0 effects on the efficacy of the target antigen so wouldn’t both be considered un ethical by your standards?
You are right in the fact that it would unblind the efficacy study since childhood vaccines are unavoidably unsafe. But it would not have any effect on the efficacy outcomes.
Please provide the placebo control trial used for licensure of Hepb and MMR. You do understand the difference between post licensure studies and studies used for licensure right?
Exactly…you don’t need a saline placebo to determine efficacy; any placebo control which is inactive wrt the immunological effects of the treatment vaccine will do, and will be “ethical” at the same time.
"Both of which were never tested for their carcinogenic or mutagenic potential or impairment of fertility."
Amazing.
No matter how many times over how many decades.......the toxicologists who created and use the tests explain that it is (almost always) not appropriate to use them with vaccines.......the anti-vaccs still find folks that don't care enough to check.
It is amazing that despite the never ending chanting that vaccines are safe and effective. You only provide an argument on why the safety was never needed to be done.
doctors!?!?!? don't believe viruses exist???? There are a lotta docs out there. Bound to be some tooty frooties. One of America's Frontline Doctors, who early on came out against the vaccines had a web site that claimed there was alien DNA in our medicines and that sexual problems were caused by having sex with demons!! These people have MDs!!!
tell that to all the thousand of study directors out there and clinical scienstists. Where did YOU get YOUR clinical science degree from that makes you smarter than all of us about how clinical trials are run and what constitutes a control? Please tell us your background.
Public Health has lost the trust of millions by supporting mandates for the COVID-19 💉. Regaining this trust will require years of good faith, unconflicted work, including running RCTs on current MMR and MMRV formulations. Until then, people will expect to choose for themselves.
Lets just stop and take this in for a second. In the minds of these deluded pro-vaxxers
Taking away choice (from parents and doctors regarding the sort of medical intervention to apply to a child) equates to standing up for children? In what world does this make any sense ?
Article should be renamed "Connecticut forces toxic drugs upon its children".
Do I think parents should vaccinate their children against many diseases? Sure, particularly when the benefit exceeds the risk. But stop forcing people into participating in medical procedures they don't want. Government along with regulatory agencies, doctors and the pharmaceutical industry have proven time and time again they cannot be trusted. The authoritative approach only makes things worse.
One (of many reasons) we moved out of NYC/NY was this issue. Its that important to us. We had the home school option but saw early the woke progressives were dragging the state down, better to abandon that hell hole entirely
I always ask the provax idiots: given that vaccinated people still transmit and contract the very illnesses they were vaccinated against:
https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-ln-whooping-cough-vaccine-20190316-story.html
If you vaccinate YOUR kid, what threat is my unvaccinated kid to yours ?
If your child is in the 5% unvaccinated then “my” child is protecting yours (measles)
What you neglect to realise is that pertussis is very very dangerous to neonates, particularly those with a gestation age of 34 weeks or lower. This is why pregnant women are vaccinated against pertussis in the 3rd trimester.
Other respiratory viruses are equally dangerous for neonates, including measles and rubella.
https://rumble.com/v4cgput-brady-bunch-measles-episode.html
Thats called "cope". Your child is protecting no one. Its the lie they feed you to keep you on the plantation
https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-ln-whooping-cough-vaccine-20190316-story.html
Herd immunity through vaccination is a myth. "Boosters", "Viral Shedding" etc. Youve heard the terms
The vaccinated still contract and transmit the very illnesses they were vaccinated against.
See article below for whooping cough
https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-ln-whooping-cough-vaccine-20190316-story.html
Anyone paying attention through 2020 to current saw the steady stream of public officials fall sick and test positive after every booster shot.
The very definition of insanity
https://rumble.com/v2wy4vz-dr-peter-hoetz-various-moments-contradicting-himself.html
https://rumble.com/v20bpjc-safe-and-effective-lie-countdown.html
"Herd immunity through vaccination is a myth."
Poor rombios......you couldn't read the words in your link....it isn't about herd immunity.....
Can't read the many studies from all around the world where herd immunity from vaccines was measured......
And can't read the references from your rumble links and see how they are obviously lying.....
If you offered something functionally literate.......you wouldn't have to rely on personal attacks.
Whooping cough is not controllable through herd immunity, natural or vaccine induced. So it’s an awful example to use.
You should stick to diseases that 1. Exhibit cyclical natural herd immunity, and 2. which have effective sterilising vaccines. These tend to be “live” viral vaccines.
Measles is a good example.
How convenient - the ever shifting goal post.
HERD IMMUNITY through vaccination is a lie for EVERYTHING
https://www.science.org/content/article/measles-outbreak-traced-fully-vaccinated-patient-first-time
And of course
http://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
Your link isn't about herd immunity and you seem to have missed the basic facts......"first time".
Fire away now with your personal attacks!
I’d refer you to some scientific publications on herd immunity but they’d be way over your comprehension level. Try this instead:
https://vaccineknowledge.ox.ac.uk/herd-immunity
🤣😂🤣 “…for the first time”
You are hilarious!
"I always ask the provax idiots: given that vaccinated people still transmit and contract the very illnesses they were vaccinated against:"
By idiots--you mean folks that can do 5th grade math.
Fire away with your personal attacks and ignore the lunacy of your "argument".
“Particularly” when the benefit exceeds the risk? Surely, ONLY if the benefit exceeds the risk.
The problem is getting the information to make that decision. It is simply not available, in the form of randomised prospective placebo controlled studies.
flat wrong!! After several billions of doses given and studies done in many countries it is WELL studied!!
Ok then. Show me where I can find the prospective randomised placebo controlled studies that demonstrate safety & efficacy?
They are easily searchable online. The phase 3 mRNA vaccine studies looked at 74,000 people, and the placebo was saline.
No its not. The news of adverse events are suppressed. Drug companies are the biggest funders of ads on television
Look at the poison vaccine for Convid as an example. It took 4 years for even the pathetic NY Times to release an article about victims of the vaccine
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/03/health/covid-vaccines-side-effects.html
Facial Paralysis, Guilame Barre, Myocarditis, Pericarditis, Turbo cancer, Sudden death. All were denied as conspiracy theory 3 years ago.
Now most people with functional brain cells know better
Turbo cancer is a myth.
GBS is more likely to follow campylobacter food poisoning.
Myocarditis is mild and treatable, unlike the myocarditis following a viral infection.
I'm not so sure you know what youre talking about and the pharmaceutical industry apologia presented as "data" no longer gives me any confidence.
we need studies done by third parties and absolutely impartial and very strict agencies that are monitored by the public and other entities. we can no longer leave any of these issues to pharmaceutical industry hacks that capture institutions and finance the same studies that are meant to be critical of their products.
"we need studies done by third parties "
You mean like health and life insurance companies......and national healthcare systems.......and Universities......and not for profits.....!
On what basis do you think I don’t know what I’m talking about?
Hot off the press
COVID19 vaccines linked to myocarditis, pericarditis, ITP, Guillain Barre Syndrome, Bell's Palsy, ADEM, PE, Febrile seizures & more
That's the headline from an article by UCSF Professor of Epidemiology and Biostatistics and Medicine Vinay Prasad MD MPH
https://kirschsubstack.com/p/covid19-vaccines-linked-to-myocarditis
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X24001270
The defense rests
Did you read the article you cited from the Global Vaccine Data Netwrork on side effects in 100 million vaccine recipients?
...I guess not, since it showed only what we already know, namely that the mRNA vaccines can rarely cause myo/pericarditis (0.006% excess in young males) and the vector vaccines like Astra/Zeneca can rarely cause cerebral venous sinus thombosis (excess rate of 0.00025%) but not mRNA vaccines.
Fractionally higher rates than expected for some other conditions were noted, but not at a level thought to indicate a safety signal concern (eg Guillain Barre syndrome with vAZ vaccine at 0.0001%), and other recorded issues appear to be noise rather than signal.
However, I commend you citing a scientific paper for once rather than some substack drivel or something off Rumble. Pity the science didn't show what you wanted it to though...
Yes there is a risk of myocarditis following the COVID19 vaccines, but it is mild and treatable in the vast majority of cases. It has also been associated with the smallpox vaccine, influenza vaccine, diphtheria,tetanus and polio triple vaccine and the diphtheria, tetanus pertussis vaccine.
ITP, occurs in up to 10% of people on heparin. The anti platelet factor 4, which prevents platelets from starting the coagulation cascade forms a complex with heparin, this triggers an immune response with antibodies that are against the antiPF4, which means that all antiPF4 proteins are subject to antibody attachment.
https://patient.info/allergies-blood-immune/blood-clotting-tests/immune-thrombocytopenia
I have seen it in a patient who’d had a food poisoning two weeks prior to attending A&E.
GBS is an autoimmune condition and depending on how soon after the vaccine would indicate a coincidence or a causal link.
I’ve also seen a patient with GBS, developing two weeks after a similar infection.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/guillain-barre-syndrome/causes/
Febrile seizures are due to raised temperature, can occur in any infant and don’t cause any long term problems, children usually grow out of them by the time they’re 5 or 6, although my youngest had one when he was 8, following an ear infection. They don’t precipitate epilepsy, but are alarming the first time your child has one.
Having worked in paediatric A&E I have encountered my fair share of them.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/febrile-seizures/
https://mstrust.org.uk/a-z/demyelinating-conditions
I think using Steve Kirsch as a reference is ridiculous as he’s not a physician, immunologist or virologist.
"While our study confirmed previously identified rare safety signals following COVID-19 vaccination"
You didn't read your reference did you?
>Turbo cancer is a myth
Just like MyoCarditis and Facial Paralysis and Sudden Death and Blood Cloths were all myths at one time ?
1) https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0141813024022323
2) https://twitter.com/NikolovScience/status/1780290082273902877?t=gkEnuQjzHIPEqbPEfC9idw&s=19
>Myocarditis is mild and treatable, unlike the myocarditis following a viral infection.
1) https://lionessofjudah.substack.com/p/judge-orders-cdc-to-release-78-million
2) https://covidreason.substack.com/p/cdc-now-refusing-new-covid-vaccine
3) https://x.com/sco0psmcgoo/status/1758247285492761054
From the article:
mRNA injections have only been on the market for about two years, and according to the FDA Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) database, mRNA “vaccines” have been named the primary suspect in over 1.5 million adverse event reports, of which there are >20,000 heart attacks and >27,000 cases of myocarditis and pericarditis just in the USA alone. Worldwide numbers would be greater. According to many references, including an FDA-funded study out of Harvard, VAERS reports represent fewer than 1 percent of vaccine adverse events that actually occur.
SO DO THE MATH
>GBS is more likely to follow campylobacter food poisoning.
https://www.openvaers.com/
Also thought Id throw this two in
1) https://www.cbsnews.com/news/family-to-receive-15m-plus-in-first-ever-vaccine-autism-court-award/#textThe20first20court20award20infor20the20first20year20alone
2) https://covidreason.substack.com/p/paul-offit-im-not-getting-this-years
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34281357/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35104343/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35018472/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35346918/
"Turbo cancer is a myth
Just like MyoCarditis and Facial Paralysis and Sudden Death and Blood Cloths were all myths at one time ?"
Yes turbo cancer is an anti-vacc lie predicated on folks being too clueless to count.
Once again you prove unable to read the words in YOUR reference.
The information they get is often disinformation, spread by antivaccine propagandists. There’s plenty of evidence here on these forums.
I often wondered what the religious basis was for religious exemptions, since I'm pretty sure none of the sacred texts of any religion mentions vaccines. A brief Google search indicates that the basis is that vaccines interfere with "divine providence." (link below) That would be true of every medical treatment, so clearly there is a logical contradiction going on which legislation and courts should recognize but apparently don't. But in my experience, pointing out logical errors, as well as labeling people "selfish," are not effective strategies for changing minds. I have a dear and loving friend who is an Evangelical and embodies care for others. But she is terrified of vaccines because she has been convinced that they caused her son's autism, and she did not vaccinate the 3 kids born after the son with autism. When a mutual friend told her that she needs to think of other children's lives and not just her own (the mutual friend had a baby grandchild who had to fly to a hospital for treatment for a rare disease and was too young to be vaccinated), my religious friend said with what appeared to be genuineness, "I hadn't thought of that." She seemed truly troubled. I think these conversations need to be had with compassion and kindness IRL with those they trust for any change to occur.
https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion#:~:text=Some members decline vaccination on,Faith Tabernacle
You should not put your child at risk to protect other people’s children from a theoretical harm. That is deeply unethical. It sounds like some kind of human sacrifice lite.
You should only put your child at risk if the benefits TO THE CHILD outweigh that risk.
Regarding the risk vs. benefit ratio, luckily my friend is beginning to understand that she was lied to by Andrew Wakefield, after she saw all the evidence uncovered by Brian Deer. Fortunately my friend is also deeply concerned for the welfare of ALL children. FYI, I will not respond any further because, as I said, such conversations are only productive IRL and I suspect you are "immune" to empirical evidence.
You are lying about your mythical friend.
Its illogical for her to question her decision when she can clearly see the improved health and cognitive abilities of the two unvaxxed children
Ill take "stories that never happend for $1000 Alex"
Did you even read what I wrote? She has 5 kids total, 2 vaccinated (including the son with ASD), and 3 unvaccinated children. One of her unvaccinated children has a learning disability, and her most cognitively accomplished child is her oldest, who is vaccinated. I'm not creative enough to make up such a story, and quite frankly, I don't give a sh*t whether you believe it or not.
What part of "ill take things that never happened for $1000 Alex" did you not understand?
And you are right - you are not creative enough at story telling FULL STOP
I noticed you didn’t deny the existence of the Back to the VAX parent group. Are all those parents also imaginary? You cannot possibly prove what you are claiming and I can, but only IRL. You just helped me prove my original point that productive conversations can only occur IRL, where I could introduce you to my non-imaginary friend and her five kids whom you don’t want to believe exist because their existence threatens everything you believe in. I hope you find your way out of your bubble at some point, and I wish you the best.
Like “viruses don’t exist”…one of your favourites!
Well I just use the prescribing information that is provided with the vaccine. To assess safety, I look for placebo controlled studies - there usually isn’t any unfortunately. And then to assess benefit. I look for reductions in whatever harm the vaccine is purported to reduce - and how long that benefit lasts.
It’s surprisingly hard to get the data to make a proper risk benefit assessment.
I don’t think I’m immune to empirical evidence at all. I just can’t find any that is free from bias in most cases.
The only time that a clinical trial compared vaccinated with deliberately unvaccinated was in the 1950’s when Salk compared those two groups to determine the effectiveness of his poliovirus vaccine. As soon as a vaccine is determined to be safe and effective in a stage 3 trial, the participants have to be unblinded and the vaccine offered to those in the placebo arm. The placebo is usually a well known and widely used vaccine rather than saline.
https://vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
The "saline placebo" substitution is how they rig the RCTs to minimize adverse events
One of the biggest eye openers after i read "Turtles all the way down: vaccine myth and science"
AstraZeneca did use saline as the placebo in one of their phase 3 trials, which took place in three different countries, the U.K. didn’t .
"One of the biggest eye openers after i read "Turtles all the way down: vaccine myth and science"
A great example of how the anti-vacc fraud preys upon folks too stupid to read.
Examples have been posted here....and many other places too....
Fire ways.
And most recently just look at the RCTs with saline placebo on 70,000 people in the mRNA studies.
THATS a lie!!
you also know nothing about clinical trials. Often placebo controls are unethical!!
How about rigging RCTs by substituting a previous version of the vaccine under test or another vaccine in whole for the INERT saline solution standard placebo?
Any ethics issue there?
How about refusing to release clinical trial data for 55 years forcing a judge to intervene
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/paramount-importance-judge-orders-fda-hasten-release-pfizer-vaccine-docs-2022-01-07/
Any ethics issue there ? Any that rise to the level enough to bother your conscience?
With regards to Pfizer clinical data, this is not what you think it is. There was a FOIA request asking for the information. At that time pfizer hadn’t sufficient staff to collect and collate the data, they estimated that at that time it would take 75 years to answer the FOIA with their staffing levels at that time.
"How about refusing to release clinical trial data for 55 years forcing a judge to intervene"
The clinical data was posted on-line. A fact already proven to you.
Anyone that reads the FOI request will see how the anti-vaccs lie....and lie....and lie....
According to Reuters it wasn’t Pfizer waiting 55 years but the FDA https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/wait-what-fda-wants-55-years-process-foia-request-over-vaccine-data-2021-11-18/
By not vaccinating a child against measles is putting that child at risk of serious health problems either now or in the future. The measles virus knocks the immune system for 6 by suppressing it, leaving the child vulnerable to other infections, for several months if not years.
The aim of any vaccine is to prevent serious illness or death in an individual, community immunity is a byproduct of that which may not be possible for certain pathogens.
Therefore, you are not vaccinating your child to protect other people’s children, you are doing so to protect your child and potentially yourself (hence is a selfish act); but if 95% of a population are vaccinated then that collection of individual selfish acts mutates into population wide altruism, which protects those people who cannot have the vaccination for various physiological, not philosophical, reasons.
this might have been true 40 years ago. now, this is pharmaceutical industry propaganda and can be dismissed as such.
come up with a new selling tool this talking point died in 2019 and was buried in 2020, pal.
It holds true today.
no. it doesn't and there is no way for you to know. the fact is that different formulations and ingredients are used in the medical products of today and there is a medical and pharmaceutical industry intent on "treating" but not curing people of illness and in some cases inducing other health complications so they can siphon money from people from birth to death.
And there are for profit health insurance companies or national healthcare systems that pay for vaccines and pay for healthcare expenses of their clients.....and their world-wide experience is that vaccines are safe, effective, and often save more money through better health then they costed.
Are you advocating for a return to the situation 150 years ago?
"this might have been true 40 years ago. now, this is pharmaceutical industry propaganda and can be dismissed as such."
Translation: you will not listen to for profit health insurance companies or national healthcare systems.....
Because they have data on many millions of children that prove everything you claim about vaccines is wrong.
or they can just make stuff up for narrative and profit. more people are sick and people are living much shorter lives. funny how that works…
you do not understand ethics at all. To live in community with others we need to share and sacrifice for each other and it in turn benefits US!!
Are we benefitted by indemnifying the drug manufacturers?
Is that part of your kumbaya community bullshit?
Heres a small list of drugs recalled by the FDA well after deaths and harm to the public. It took lawsuits to force their hand.
On this list includes phen-fen and vioxx.
https://www.mdlinx.com/article/10-dangerous-drugs-recalled-by-the-fda/lfc-4008
These drugs (unlike vaccines) arent indemnified
Vaccines still are NOT indemnified.
Fire away!
No. Not buying that. Sounds like you’re happy for a few kids to suffer harm for a supposed “greater good”. Nazi thinking.
There’s a clear threat of an airborne attack on Florida from a rogue nation, the United States Airforce and Navy launch whatever aircraft to stave off the attacking aircraft. Several US aircraft are shot down in the ensuing dogfight.
By your logic you wouldn’t be happy for a few to suffer arm for a greater good, especially if the interlopers were carrying a nuclear weapon targeted at Miami.
The warped view is yours.
Utilitarian-based actions are the ethics of choice, from the medical philosophical viewpoint.
your ethics are not ethics. your ethics are pharamceutical industry talking points meant to force people into circular logic so they must answer ridiculous hypotheticals and choose between quite meaningless circumstances instead of examining reality which you are loathe to address.
the fact is that ethics demands that government ensure safety and err on the side of caution against injecting people with shoddily made medical products.
like it or don't like it youre gonna learn to live with that.
There are these people called ethicists.
Instead of just making things up--which is completely unethical--you should really try learning.
I’ll live with my ethics, no problem!
Ok cool. Well in that case, can we kill you, and give your heart, lungs, liver and kidneys to a bunch of other people? Maximising outcomes is what matters to YOU right? Save 4 lives for your pathetic one life?
Thought not.
That would save 5 lives…😉
https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-ln-whooping-cough-vaccine-20190316-story.html
Herd immunity through vaccination is a myth
I always ask parents
"If you believe vaccines work and your child is vaccinated; what threat is mine to yours"?
And then sit there chuckling as their minds reboot
Because…
1. not all vaccines are 100% effective, in fact none are, leaving some vaccinated individuals vulnerable
2. There are vulnerable individuals who cannot be vaccinated because of factors like age (too young) or immunosuppression (genetic, chemo, bone marrow and organ transplants etc)
3. There are those who are allergic to vaccine components and can’t be vaccinated.
4. There are those without the wherewithal to get vaccinated.
To all these people you say :F**k you; your lives don’t matter”.
…charming.
1. Vaccines are useless in the best case.
https://vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
2. Who cares. Thats their problem. We can add ourselves to those vulnerable numbers who wont get ANY childhood vaccine case closed
3. Again a YOU problem
4. Again a YOU problem
>To all these people you say :F**k you; your lives don’t matter”.
ABSOLUTELY
Your examples above lend weight to my statement.
"if you believe vaccines work AND your children are vaccinated - WHAT THREAT IS MINE TO YOURS"???
"if you believe vaccines work AND your children are vaccinated - WHAT THREAT IS MINE TO YOURS"???
"if you believe vaccines work AND your children are vaccinated - WHAT THREAT IS MINE TO YOURS"???
So after establishing 1-3 above, that there are a group of children/peoples who cant be vaccinated. Ergo it shouldnt matter if I dont vaccinate mine own. Simply add them to the group
In truth none of it matters. Regarding my kids: NO syringe will pierce their flesh NOT WHILE I DRAW BREATH
""if you believe vaccines work AND your children are vaccinated - WHAT THREAT IS MINE TO YOURS"???"
Yes, you have made it clear that you literally can not do 5th grade math.....even to save the lifes of your children.
Fire away....
If vaccines are useless why has smallpox been eradicated?
Mises Wire:Smallpox: The Historical Myths behind Mandatory Vaccines
https://lettreelectronique.wordpress.com/2021/11/25/mises-wiresmallpox-the-historical-myths-behind-mandatory-vaccines/
NOTHING to do with the vaccine.
Much like Polio and DDT/ARSENIC and Measles/Mumps/Rubella etc and improvements in SANITATION/WATER/FOOD STORAGE AND REFRIGERATION
http://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
Wake the hell up.
I care not only about my own vaccinated children, but all the others who are unvaccinated for the reasons above.
I’m assuming my vaccinated children have immunity against disease as like measles, but I might be wrong and they could still be vulnerable if they were in the tiny fraction of those who don’t respond to the shots.
If your unvaccinated kids bring measles into the community, then others with no measles immunity will sicken (and could die).
That’s why your (and others’) unvaxed kids pose a risk….they are the primary victims and spreaders of the disease.
you don't care about anyone but making money for pharmaceutical companies. the fact is that it is NOT a choice between caring for others or saying another individula's life does not matter.
the people youre referencing can mask, and stay in settings that allow them to remain safe by guaging their level of risk and what level of risk they want to take. society is not forced to inject themselves with shoddily made medical product "because reasons". that doesn't equate to insulting others. it only means you don't want to consume certain medical products.
deal with it.
>If your unvaccinated kids bring measles into the community, then others with no measles immunity will sicken (and could die).
Again - herd immunity is a MYTH. The vaccinated still contract and transmit the very illnesses they were vaccinated against. FULL STOP.
Harvard-Westlake students were vaccinated. Dozens caught whooping cough anyway
https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-ln-whooping-cough-vaccine-20190316-story.html
The story above goes on to add
>>Eighteen students there have not been vaccinated against pertussis, but none of them has caught the illness, school spokesman Ari Engelberg said
So the unvaccinated are not the threat - YOU ARE
Same issues played out during CONvid 2020-2023. Every one getting the booster kept getting sick OVER AND OVER AND OVER. A problem the unvaccinated didnt suffer
REPEAT AFTER ME
HERD IMMUNITY THROUGH VACCINATION IS A MYTH
"Herd immunity through vaccination is a myth"
And you still can't read the words in your link......
Herd immunity through vaccination is a myth
https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-ln-whooping-cough-vaccine-20190316-story.html
And regarding your story, Thats b.s. You made it up
No parent I know, who reverses a decision on vaccination turns back to it.
After an adverse event damaged kid most parents go crazy gathering information ESPECIALLY from sources critical of vaccination
For her to then birth and raise 2 other kids who are unvaccinated she would have clearly seen the massive difference in health and cognitive state of the unvaxxed kids. It would only reinforce her stance not cause her to question it.
First, this story was primarily about the MMR vaccine, as measles is the most contagious of the vaccine-preventable diseases and an outbreak of measles is what we are now experiencing due to all these school vaccine exemptions. Your link to a story about whooping cough, for which immunity from vaccination wanes fairly quickly, is irrelevant because immunity from the MMR vaccines lasts decades, if not lifelong (link #1 below). Second, regarding my friend, no, she's very real, and I do not appreciate being called a liar. She is not only a person who takes her religious beliefs seriously (she actually cares about others), but she will also listen to evidence if she trusts the person providing it. She had a daughter BEFORE giving birth to the son with autism, and her daughter was vaccinated. If it makes sense to do cognitive comparisons among her 5 kids and make vaccination decisions based on who appeared to be the most cognitively capable, then she should have had them all vaccinated because the oldest vaccinated child is the only one who graduated from college (the 3 unvaccinated did not attend college and one of them has a learning disability, despite being totally unvaccinated). Of course, that would be a ridiculous comparison. After reading about all the evidence of Andrew Wakefield's lies, my friend was actually resentful about being lied to. Since her kids are now grown, it's their decision whether to get vaccinated. As for your claim, "No parent I know, who reverses a decision on vaccination turns back to it." Perhaps that just means that you should expand your horizons because the fact is, there is an entire big group of "Back to the Vax" parents (2nd link).
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/hcp/about.html#:~:text=Both serologic and epidemiologic evidence,this effectiveness decreases with time.
https://backtothevax.com/
>First, this story was primarily about the MMR vaccine, as measles is the most contagious of the vaccine-preventable diseases and an outbreak of measles is what we are now experiencing due to all these school vaccine exemptions.
Measles Outbreak Traced to Fully Vaccinated Patient for First Time
https://www.science.org/content/article/measles-outbreak-traced-fully-vaccinated-patient-first-time
This is back in 2014.
Repeat after me
HERD IMMUNITY THROUGH VACCINATION IS A MYTH
p.s: I wish I knew how to bold/italic comments like one does on youtube/rumble/reddit/facebook etctc using ** and #
"Measles Outbreak Traced to Fully Vaccinated Patient for ***First Time***"
You really, really do just keep proving yourself unable to read the words.
I’m also a bit confused…since you believe that measles virus doesn’t exist, what was this an “outbreak” of that you refer to?
“Measles Outbreak Traced to Fully Vaccinated Patient for First Time”
🤣😂🤣
Do you understand what “for the first time” means?
….it means that in nearly 50 years of vaccination for measles this had never been described before. The phenomenon was so rare that a single outbreak (of 3 cases) due to a vaccinated person merited an entire journal article!
That article is from 2014 you brain dead corporate shill.
Forever moving the goal post, for your employers useless and deadly toxins
YOU posted it.
As usual you prove functionally illiterate and then try and deflect with personal attacks.
You quoted the article, not me!
Mortality rates due to ALL child hood illnesses had declined over 90% before the introduction of ANY childhood vaccine
https://vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
So the MMR vaccine is useless in the BEST case and deadly in the WORST
https://rumble.com/v1pb9bf-in-their-own-words-doctors-are-not-experts-on-vaccines.html
In their OWN words - doctors and medical researchers tell you how little they know about vaccines and adverse reactions.
And of course if vaccines were truly safe and effective - the national childhood vaccination act/PREP act/CARES act wouldnt indemnify these manufacturers
And we all saw the show play out over the 2020-2023 Convid show
https://rumble.com/v20bpjc-safe-and-effective-lie-countdown.html
Spamming off-topic links to antivax propaganda sources like “vaclib” isn’t a persuasive strategy.
You dont get it do you?
Am not here to convince you. I could care less what you think. You are paid to be here.
I am here to make certain that anyone else that wanders upon this thread (a concerned parent or guardian) - knows that there alternate sources of information other than television and the pharmaceutical giants and their 3 letter agency cronies
You are here to spread antivax propaganda and germ denialism.
I’m here to counter BS with facts. Nobody pays me.
Most of us get it.
The anti-vacc preys upon folks too clueless to read or count.....even to protect their children from death.
Of course if you are functionally literate, you know that the manufacturers are NOT indemnified.
Fire away with your personal attacks.
"Herd immunity through vaccination is a myth"
The only myth is that you are functionally literate.
No doubt you will make zero honest effort to read the words.....
CT resident here & proud of our state for not giving into the anti-vaxers.
If you truly believed the vaccines work and your kids are vaccinated, why would you care that others are not ?
Smart parents will flee the state or home school. Hopefully ICAN lawyers target this state next aftet the precedent they set in Mississippi
Nobody here in CT cares what you think. Nobody is fleeing our state.
Sorry, you do not know what you are talking about. I am a viral immunologist, retired medical school professor. I have done vaccine research, cancer drug discovery and more. Many trials do not employ placebos because that would be to deny a patient care, which is unethical. Don't be so arrogant about things you clearly have no experience in.
You are a pharma hack. And a heartless bastard.
How about the ethics of corrupting a trial? Of decieving ignorsnt parents?
The ONLY reason drug manufacturers replace inert saline solutions with a previous version of the vaccine or another vaccine or active substance is to downplay/reduce the adverse events count.
Its pure corruption.
But that raises no red flags for you.
The national chilhood vaccination act, the PREP and CARES act indemflnifies vaccine manufactures but again no ethics red flags for hypocrite.
And you are a crazed, germ denialist, antivaccine propagandist, with zero knowledge of simple biology.
…Tell us again how viruses don’t exist, will you?
https://drsambailey.com/resources/videos/viruses-unplugged/viruses-dont-exist-and-why-it-matters/
Go ask them. They have substacks/youtube channels/two books/numerous articles and regularly do interviews on this subject.
Yes, someone’s Substack/Youtube video can overturn a hundred years of global virology science…not.
Stop stalling - go debate and humiliate them. They are publicly accessible on various forums. They are recognized as two board certified MEDICAL DOCTORS in public and private practice and one is a researcher to boot
Again - save your silly little comments. You are stalling. If you truly believe what you claim to - you would bugger off to their respective public channels and issue a debate against the matter. Then return here and show us your triumph
I watched their video. I see they refused to be interviewed by Dr Malik.
…so what was that you were saying again about how keen they are to spread their propaganda? 🤣😂🤣
"In 2020, we started investigating the virus model and came to the realisation that SARS-CoV-2 did not exist."
Everyone that is functionally literate can't help but see they are liars.
"The ONLY reason drug manufacturers replace inert saline solutions with a previous version of the vaccine or another vaccine or active substance is to downplay/reduce the adverse events count."
Still fails 7th grade science--saline is NOT inert.
Still fails 5th grade reading--most people can read and understand what adverse events are.
https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/cfrsearch.cfm?fr=312.32
That is your cue to try and hide the stupidity of your comments by responding with more personal attacks.
CT has done the right thing for their children
No CT has done the right thing for pharmaceutical shareholders and sentenced their innocent children to chronic illnesses, stunted growth and mental retardation
My grown up children are all fully vaccinated, between them they have 3 first degrees and two higher degrees. One’s a teacher, his wife is a paediatric consultant, one’s a civil servant, her husband has a higher degree and one’s a chef, his wife is an ITU nurse.
I have had vaccines including polio, diphtheria, tetanus, hepatitis A, hepatitis B, typhoid and I have two first degrees and a higher qualification.
Ergo, vaccines have no affect on mental capacity.
One of my sons is shorter than his siblings (5’9” & 6’1”) but he was 6 weeks premature,
Ergo vaccines do not stunt growth.
Measles can cause encephalitis. Measles does have a negative effect on the immune system.
Mumps in adult males can cause sterility or at best can cause swollen and painful testes, as there is no immune system in the male reproductive organs.
Rubella can affect development in utero.
your children were also vaccinated long ago when ethics were viewed far differently than they are now. in additon, vaccine ingredients change over time. each time these ingredients change their should be NEW testing and safety evaluation, the fact that there is not is and should be a huge red flag for everyone.
so again, your talking points fail. try again.
"vaccine ingredients change over time. each time these ingredients change their should be NEW testing and safety evaluation, "
And there is such testing!
on people. and that’s dangerous. no one should be forced to take them. all mandates and alws are invalid and cannot and should not be enforced.
I might be alone in that idea…
My grandchildren however have been vaccinated at various times over the last 8 years.
Why test if the excipients change? The solvent is usually water for injection. The excipients that may be present in U.K. MMR vaccines could be neomycin or glycerin.
wrong again. the ingredients have changed as have adjuvents and stabilizers. we need NEW testing on every change to these medical products or they shouldn't change at all. otherwise there is no way to confirm these things are safe.
Admit it: you just won't look and see the testing was done.
Right!
It’s called post marketing pharmacovigilance.
I nursed a patient who developed angioedema after taking a particular medication, one that they’d been taking for a decade or so.
Every person is unique in their immune system, except for identical twins, this means that every one responds differently to everything that they encounter in life. There are gross similarities in ethnic groups for examples. You carry a T cell receptor and a B cell receptor for every pathogen that has existed and will exist in the future.
Schooled != Educated / Intelligent
Isnt it interesting that you chose to rattle on about the worst effects of childhood illnesses and no mention of the damages due to vaccines for them.
The inserts list the damages. The VAERS and VICP court has paid out over $4.4 billion for adverse events including paralysis and death
But not a single mention in your fear mongering rattle
" The VAERS and VICP court has paid out over $4.4 billion for adverse events including paralysis and death"
Again, basic reading errors.
Fire aways!
I cannot speak for the USA, as I said I’m British. As a former nurse practitioner I am very aware of the potential side effects of different medications, and their interactions.
I saw a patient who developed angioedema after taking a medication they’d been having for decades without a problem.
You cannot generalise as everyone is unique, and that most definitely is true where the immune system is concerned.
Turtles All the Way Down!
On my top 3 books on this subject. I have over 40. Major eye opener.
Ill add
1) "dissolving illusions" (just ordered the 10 year anniversary release)
2)"vax unvax: let the science speak"
"On my top 3 books on this subject."
Wow.....you couldn't count to 3 correctly.
No wonder you were scammed by obvious anti-vacc lies.
Dissolving Illusions is a remarkable book. Finally, truth about what ended infectious diseases. Spoiler alert: it sure as heck wasn’t the vaccines.
AMEN. and thats the truth that needs to get out. All encapsulated in this graphics (and in the dissolving illusions books)
http://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
I already ordered the 10th anniversary book and companion guide. Going to be my summer reading when I travel. Theyve added an extra 200+ pages to the 2013 version
"I already ordered the 10th anniversary book and companion guide. "
Of course, it is all about transferring money from your pocket to theirs.
Which of course, is never the case when it comes to Big Pharma, its drugs and its vaccines. 🤣
It’s a terrific book and I so appreciate the truth she tells.
A great book for reminding us the anti-vaccs are all about scamming money with stupid lies.
This takedown explains why the claims made in Dissolving Illusions are bogus.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/wrong-about-polio-a-review-of-suzanne-humphries-md-and-roman-bystrianyks-dissolving-illusions-part-1-the-long-version/
Amazing, isn't it?
For more than a year, folks have been posting the references from the book so anyone that bothers to read the words will see the book is just a bunch of lies.
But some folks just don't care......
NOT ALL trials can use a placebo. Many can, NOT ALL can. And retrospective data, such as those used in phase IV trials never use any placebo. Clinical trials are complex and their strategies depend on many variables.
Then a trials are useless without the control arm. And the standard is an INERT SALINE SOLUTION.
Anything else is rigging the trial
Read this, or if you are struggling ask for help.
https://muse.jhu.edu/article/327/pdf
Read this
>Then trials are useless without the control arm. And the standard is an INERT SALINE SOLUTION.
>Anything else is rigging the trial
If English comprehension is a problem - message me privately
What did you think about the critique of the argument from therapeutic obligation?
Tell me, …if you read the article you should have some thoughts on it.
Oh very simple. That critique can be summarized in three words
I
DONT
CARE
Thanks for confirming your disinterest and disdain for the topic under discussion. You are clearly here just to troll.
Indeed.
Your position is so staggeringly stupid you literally have to refuse to read the words.
Assuming you are even capable of doing so....
Yes, you have this idea that reposting stupid lies is a good idea.
you always offer very little to any discussion.
placebo controlled trials MUST be included or you cannot claim that vaccines do not cause ________ because there is no way to know. what is unethical is lying by omission and causing harm with shoddily made medical products that are then forced on the public.
Simple illustration:
You have a new insulin product, you wish to see how well it works.
Do you:
1. Test it in diabetics against placebo (and watch all the patients getting no insulin sicken and maybe die), or
2. Test it against the usual standard of diabetic care (ie standard insulin)?
Now explain why you think option one is appropriate or ethical?
we're not talking about diabetic patients. stop comparing apples and cars.
we're talking about shoddily made vaccines that are actually causing harms and for some reason the only time side effects are acknowledged is when people put it together themselves and force the pharmaceutical industry and government to recognize what they KNOW is happening.
your pharmaceutical corporation apologetics was so much more effective before 2020. go try them on someone else, pal.
I tried explaining it in crayon. Perhaps a vaccine example would help.
You have a new HepB vaccine formulation, and you wish to see how well it works.
Do you:
1. Test it in those at risk from Hep B against a placebo injection (and watch those getting no vaccine catch HepB), or
2. Test it against the usual standard (ie standard HepB vaccine)?
Now explain why you think option one is appropriate or ethical?
your degree in medical science is from where?
All that is going on here is you posting nonsense and not getting even the most basic facts and concepts correct.
"placebo controlled trials MUST be included or you cannot claim that vaccines do not cause ________ because there is no way to know. "
That is 100% wrong.
If you are going to post here, you need to learn some basic logic.....also helps if you know what the purpose of a placebo is.
NOT calling for such things isn’t going to help. it will only make people more skeptical. but that doesn’t and shouldn’t matter to you.
I encourage you to continue with your line of thinking. there is no law you can make that will change what has been done.
"And the standard is an INERT SALINE SOLUTION."
Anyone that has finished 7th grade know that saline is NOT inert.
Now this is where you try and hide the stupidly of your claim with a bunch of personal attacks.
Total nonsense. Your logic is warped and knowledge about the adverse effects is too. You clearly do NOT follow the medical science. You follow the quacks....And your summary about the effects of the vaccines are NOT supported by the article AT ALL!! Shame on you for disseminating lies!!
Another pharma paid shill lecturing us on logic. Thats rich
https://vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
Ad hominem attacks are the last refuge
And "appeal to authority" are the first
How sad.....I already posted what appeal to authority means.....and you still just can't seem to understand the words:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority
Now this is where you respond with personal attacks to try and hid the fact that your "argument' isn't functionally literate.
How sad.....you still can't understand how to graph even after the anti-vacc lies have been explained to you....
You don't know what you are talking about first off! Get off the placebo control trials first--they often cannot be done and often are unethical to do! You can find clincal safety data on the WHO web site for internal studies and the CDC web site for US studies and on posts on my blog Coronavirus News & Views. But basically from your request you do not know how different clinical trials are conducted so stop asking your question. it shows your naivete.
You sound like a lunatic. Calm down.
Placebo control is “unethical” indeed! It’s the only proper way to see if there’s a benefit.
https://muse.jhu.edu/article/327/pdf
It is often unethical to use placebos in efficacy trials, mainly because it is unethical to give nothing rather than the accepted standard of care as a comparator group.
Of course if you could insist on placebos if you wished, you’d face another Tuskegee disaster.
, there is no “ standard of care” for a disease you don’t have. This should be obvious
If the standard policy is for a particular vaccine to be used to prevent a disease (eg plasma derived Hep B vaccine) and a new one is developed (eg recombinant Hep B vaccine), then the efficacy studies on the new vaccine should compare it with the previous standard of care vaccine (the plasma derived Hep B vax).
….Simple.
If you develop a vaccine where there has not been a vaccine available previously (eg for say RSV), then you indeed have nothing to compare it to except “nothing”…ie a placebo. The efficacy study should compare RSV versus placebo.
…Do you understand now?
No, we are not getting off the placebo issue. You dont get to determine what subjects are up for discussion.
The corruption of RCTs by substituting another active substance (another vaccine or the previous version of the vaccine under test) for the inert saline solution standard tells you all you need to know
Hey, saline still isn't inert!
BTW: takes most people a couple of seconds to figure out that saline is often the wrong placebo to use.
But then the point is that the anti-vacc fraud preys upon the clueless.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjIgu6pvJuBAxX3GTQIHe2LB84QFnoECDMQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.drugs.com%2Fpro%2Fprevnar.html&usg=AOvVaw18sWNC_WFzPuWcy_XuQOXW&opi=89978449
Could you explain the ethics of the Prevnar 7 trials where they used an investigational meningococcal vaccine as their placebo/Control to determine Efficacy and safety of the Prevnar 7 vaccine.
Both of which were never tested for their carcinogenic or mutagenic potential or impairment of fertility.
According to the package insert they compared the Sid’s deaths in the Prevnar group to the “control/placebo” meningococcal vaccine and used the background Sid’s death rate of the vaccinated/unvaccinated to determine Prevnar was “Safe”.
The conjugated pneumococcal vaccine was shown to be highly effective at preventing invasive pneumococcal disease and other adverse outcomes as compared to the comparator group which contained components with no anti-pneumococcal activity (ie acting as the placebo).
For safety studies, an inactive comparator without biological activity is preferable, obviously.
Do you think the Prevnar trials were ethical in using an investigational vaccine as the placebo given the fact that the standard of care for pneumococcal disease at the time was antibiotics?
And was it ethical to determine the safety as well?
I deleted the last comment since it was insinuating a response that was not your own.
You are correct you did not say saline.
Do you see the hypocrisy of your double standards.
You can’t have It both ways by claiming it is unethical to use a Saline placebo in an efficacy trial when using an investigational vaccine will have the same outcome since neither could effect the efficacy of the target antigen.
Which Leads to the only logical reason on why they choose a vaccine over a saline placebo and that is to hide the adverse events
"Which Leads to the only logical reason on why they choose a vaccine over a saline placebo and that is to hide the adverse events"
You are 100% wrong.
The logical reason why you refuse to learn how to use placebos correctly is that you don't want to know what the truth is.
What is the reason then?
I haven’t said it is unethical to use a saline placebo in efficacy trials. Please don’t twist my words.
It’s ethical. It’s also ethical to use placebos that are immunologically inactive wrt to the active ingredient/disease under investigation.
The effects of the vaccine on the disease will become apparent.
But when a disease already has an effective treatment or vaccine in play, one should test the new vaccine against the current standard of care/vaccination.
Safety is what most people are concerned about not efficacy.
Please explain how an investigational meningococcal vaccine used as a placebo is any different from a saline placebo. Both have 0 effects on the efficacy of the target antigen so wouldn’t both be considered un ethical by your standards?
Since you would be denying the standard of care.
"Please explain how an investigational meningococcal vaccine used as a placebo is any different from a saline placebo."
In some cases, a saline placebo would break the blinding of the trial and make the results meaningless.
Too bad you just keep refusing to learn the most basic facts.
You are right in the fact that it would unblind the efficacy study since childhood vaccines are unavoidably unsafe. But it would not have any effect on the efficacy outcomes.
That does not explain how the Prevnar trails were Ethical.
You do not need a Saline placebo or an investigational vaccine to determine Efficacy.
The Hepb and MMR did not use placebo controls to determine there Efficacy.
I can explain why you didn't bother to read the studies--you don't want to see that placebo controls were used.
Please provide the placebo control trial used for licensure of Hepb and MMR. You do understand the difference between post licensure studies and studies used for licensure right?
Exactly…you don’t need a saline placebo to determine efficacy; any placebo control which is inactive wrt the immunological effects of the treatment vaccine will do, and will be “ethical” at the same time.
"Both of which were never tested for their carcinogenic or mutagenic potential or impairment of fertility."
Amazing.
No matter how many times over how many decades.......the toxicologists who created and use the tests explain that it is (almost always) not appropriate to use them with vaccines.......the anti-vaccs still find folks that don't care enough to check.
So when they say the Science is settled what do you actually mean?
It is amazing that despite the never ending chanting that vaccines are safe and effective. You only provide an argument on why the safety was never needed to be done.
The Financial Incentive To Murder and Poison American Children
A Dr explains it all in the 6 minute video below.
How his office takes a financial hit for failing to meet vaccination quotas.
And adds that his unvaxxed patients are healthier and rarely visit the clinic or emergency rooms.
https://madmaxworld.tv/watch?id=6645db47be68d050e2343587
"The Financial Incentive To Murder and Poison American Children"
So put your big boy boxers on and sue to stop their use.
But you won't, because you would go to jail for perjury!
doctors!?!?!? don't believe viruses exist???? There are a lotta docs out there. Bound to be some tooty frooties. One of America's Frontline Doctors, who early on came out against the vaccines had a web site that claimed there was alien DNA in our medicines and that sexual problems were caused by having sex with demons!! These people have MDs!!!
The comments :-( Only read a few and had to stop.
Warning to others: appreciate and share the article, but avoid the comments - they’ll make you feel sick.
It's the same handful of ostriches every week, ranting the same nonsense over and over again. Very weird.
tell that to all the thousand of study directors out there and clinical scienstists. Where did YOU get YOUR clinical science degree from that makes you smarter than all of us about how clinical trials are run and what constitutes a control? Please tell us your background.
how about not commenting on things you know nothing about?
He certainly knows nothing about viruses, because he thinks they don’t exist!
really??
Indeed. He keeps linking to a substack from 2 Aussie docs who have promulgated that idea.
Pot Kettle Black
Try taking your own advice
Public Health has lost the trust of millions by supporting mandates for the COVID-19 💉. Regaining this trust will require years of good faith, unconflicted work, including running RCTs on current MMR and MMRV formulations. Until then, people will expect to choose for themselves.
Lets just stop and take this in for a second. In the minds of these deluded pro-vaxxers
Taking away choice (from parents and doctors regarding the sort of medical intervention to apply to a child) equates to standing up for children? In what world does this make any sense ?
Article should be renamed "Connecticut forces toxic drugs upon its children".
Sensible and well meaning parents will either
1) flee the state
2) take up the issue in court (ICAN)
3) private or home school
In what ever order serves their family best