Why don't you get up to date with your vaccines before preaching to everyone else. They are obviously so harmful that you can't even bring yourself to take them. Regardless of the terrible optics of that. At least you had the decency to not lie to us about that fact, but then it begs the question, if you're really so committed to the vaccines, then you should have taken the hit like everyone else that had it mandated to keep their jobs and freedoms. It's for the greater good!
Anyway, it is exactly you and other bought and paid for mouthpieces that lead us exactly to where we are now. There were things we knew would work. Anyone with even the most basic knowledge of virology and vaccines know that the response made literally no sense unless it was to usher in this very dangerous new technology and take it mainstream. You never vaccinate into a pandemic, masks don't work for respiratory viruses spread by aerosols, you don't target a rapidly mutating target with your vaccine, you don't disallow doctors from trying out existing medications, you don't abandon early treatment, you don't recommend new untested medications to pregnant women and children, you don't lock down because more people will ultimately die if you do, you don't sabotage any attempt to get the real number of deaths FROM covid, you don't unnecessarily scare the public, you don't pass off a gene therapy as a vaccine to skirt the testing requirements, you don't lie about the origins, you don't suppress all attempts to gather data or do research that might even remotely paint it in a bad light (including miscategorisation and not origins autopsies)...
The list is almost endless. These are all medicine 101. Yet all of this was thrown out of the window and everything was done to institute totalitarian controls and take modRNA mainstream, and then you have the gall to turn around and say you were under pressure and we made some mistakes, but somehow this was still the right way to go... when excess deaths are through the roof!? And then feign surprise that people are suspicious of all vaccines, including perfectly good (or at least less harmful) non modRNA ones?! Give me a break! I know people in the industry and they have given me the truth. Most people don't have this luxury, they rely on "experts" like you, and you be have let them down very badly. You are nothing but a vaccine industry shill and history will not look kindly on you and your ilk.
FYI, Dr. Paul Offit took all the vaccinations recommended for him in his age group for somone who has no co-morbidities and already had one infection.
The vaccines saved an estimated 15-20 million lives. The mRNA vaccines saved 5.5 million lives alone. On the other hand, the infection, aided and abetted by anti-vaccine activism, killed an estimated 15-20 million.
So this would have been 30-40 million killed by the virus if there was no vaccine and about a quarter of the actual death toll if everyone for whom the vaccine was available took it and wasn't scare-mongered out of it by anti-vaccine agitators.
During 2021, 250,000 unvaccinated Americans died because they either delayed or rejected vaccinations as a result of anti-vaccine propaganda. You should be ashamed for being part of the cause of this tragedy.
Below I correct all the things you said that are FALSE:
- you do not understand basic virology and immunology
- pandemics are exactly when you roll out vaccines.
- masks work - I invite you to work with an active Ebola patient and not wear a mask!
- the technology was proven not only safe but effective.
- there are vaccines that target both rapidly mutating viruses and slow mutating viruses.
- repurposing existing medication was not disallowed, it was actually the first response.
- you abandon early treatment when RCTs show that it is ineffective.
- pregnant women were vaccinated only after safety & effectiveness was established.
- breast-feeding women were vaccinated only after safety & effectiveness was established.
- children were vaccinated only after safety & effectiveness was established.
- lockdowns and other mitigation measures saved lives until a vaccine became available.
- the mRNA vaccine are not drugs, they are vaccines.
- the mRNA vaccines are not experimental.
- the mRNA vaccines are now the most thoroughly tested vaccines in history.
- the mRNA vaccines when through stage I, II, III clinical trials like all vaccines.
- the mRNA vaccines have been through post-marketing surveillance of 5.5 billion doses.
- the virus evolved in the wild and passed to humans in two zoonotic spillover events.
- there is strong epidemiological evidence this occurred at the Huanan Seafood market.
- there is no scientific evidence the virus was genetically engineered in a lab.
- there is virtually no scientific evidence that the virus leaked from a lab.
- you do not understand totalitarianism confusing it with pandemic measures to reduce death.
- excess deaths are caused by long term effects of infection, not vaccines.
- excess deaths are not "through the roof".
- it is the unvaccinated who are still dying in excess numbers, not the vaccinated.
Woah, my comment has had rather a lot of activity it seems!
I had this at the bottom of my reply, but nobody will see it then. I'm paraphrasing a nice comment I saw somewhere, but all people need to know is that if those in power need to censor, bully, ridicule, jail, mandate, socially ostracise, drive from their jobs, have every media outlet weaponise your humanity against opposition to it and then ram it down your throat using every phychological technique in the book 24/7, then to put it mildly, whatever it is they are pushing is likely not in your best interests.
Censorship and loss of medical freedoms NEVER EVER led anywhere good. No matter how noble sounding the cause or which scaremongering tactics they use, you must see the bigger picture. This is not just about the here and now. I am fed up of the propagandised majority trying to help the tyrants take these freedoms from us. Thankfully they've overplayed their hand this time and the truth is now pouring out. The latest vaccine uptake rates and excess death statistics don't lie, people are starting to notice and the tide is beginning to turn. The shills will see what it feels like to be the pariahs of society soon. Stay strong!
As for BillyJoe here... Where do I even start! Everything I listed is best medical practice... or it was until this pandemic came along. You can look in almost any medical textbook and they will say the same thing. My point was to highlight this glaring dissonance between what was accepted medical practice, based on decades of research, and the completely incomprehensible response to Covid. You can quote all the manipulated statistics around covid all you want, but it doesn't change any of these facts.
You basically failed to address any of my points anyway, but there are a few zingers in there that I feel I must highlight.
BillyJoe's very first comment:
"FYI, Dr. Paul Offit took all the vaccinations recommended for him in his age group for somone who has no co-morbidities and already had one infection. "
I'm assuming he is in the US so, CDC own website, updated 01/2024 says:
"Everyone aged 5 years and older ‡ should get 1 dose of an updated COVID-19 vaccine to protect against serious illness from COVID-19."
Under ‡
"People aged 12 years and older who got COVID-19 vaccines before September 12, 2023, should get 1 updated Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, or Novavax COVID-19 vaccine."
So no, unless Paul is less than 5 years old, he is not up to date, or following the recommendations, and since he didn't get the last update either, he is a long time hypocrite and you obviously don't know what you're talking about.
I say:
"masks don't work for respiratory viruses spread by aerosols"
BillyJoe says:
"masks work - I invite you to work with an active Ebola patient and not wear a mask!"
This is a completely different type of virus, with a completely different transmission mechanism. Don't believe me? How about Wikipedia, which is usually a complete joke for anything politicised, but ebola is not, so we can probably trust it.
Wikipedia Ebola page says:
The virus spreads through direct contact with body fluids, such as blood from infected humans or other animals,[1] or from contact with items that have recently been contaminated with infected body fluids.[1] There have been no documented cases, either in nature or under laboratory conditions, of spread through the air between humans or other primates.
CDC and WHO also agree masks are a waste of time!
1. A May 2020 meta-study on pandemic influenza published by the US CDC found that face masks had no effect, neither as personal protective equipment nor as a source control.
2. A WHO review of ten randomized controlled trials of face masks against influenza-like illness, published in September 2019, found no statistically significant benefit.
3. They also forced a retraction of the very thorough and highly regarded Cochrane review on masks...
Either way, any slight benefit you are likely to see will almost certainly be wiped out by the increased CO2 levels you're forced to breathe, especially if you wear a FFP2 mask "properly", and the highly toxic chemicals and fibres that you're breathing in. All of which either directly reduce your immunity or will certainly harm your health.
BillyJoe says:
"- the mRNA vaccine are not drugs, they are vaccines.
- the mRNA vaccines are not experimental.
- the mRNA vaccines are now the most thoroughly tested vaccines in history."
They bloody well are! The EUA was specifically required because it was experimental. And what do you mean they are not drugs?! Are you saying they have no effect on the body?! Because that's the definition of a drug... I never even used the word "drug" anywhere in my reply anyway.
The most thoroughly tested in history, you say... It's only been out 3 years! It hasn't even passed the required time threshold to measure the long term effects!?! It's also contaminated with endotoxins & residual DNA, has SV40 cancer promoting regions inexplicably left in (Pfizer only) and is so new that they are only just starting to find out that the pseudo-uridine that causes the modRNA to stick around for months (vs standard mRNA which might be days) is producing copy errors that mean that now you're flooding your system with loads of random proteins that will have god knows what effect on the body.
For something that is a completely new delivery meachanism, and is the very definition of a gene therapy, where they had to change the definition of what a vaccine was, and then lied about the gene therapy part so they wouldn't need to test for genotoxicity at all... you're trying to tell me it's the most tested vaccine in history!?! 🤣😂🤣 They didn't even perform the tests they were supposed to on it!! No but seriously, I don't know what planet you're on...
Just Thank you PerceptionofReality. I reread BillyJoe’s talking points and am in disbelief of how many of them are so off base. It is astounding that people still believe the narrative. Masks work , the Covid jab is a vaccine and is safe and effective, MRNA vaccines have been researched for years(yes and found to not work, daa) on and on. The man who calls others clueless is generally the clueless man. We should all pray for BillyJoe.
Yes, Masks work, the Covid vaccine is, by now, maybe the best researched vaccine in the world and it works very well. Neither the data nor simple physics lie. I guess you believe people, too, who said their skin became magnetic after the vaccine?
1. Stop reading people who are spreading disinformation
2. This article is so blatantly false and misleading, that it is no testament to your very basic education around vaccines and infectious diseases, that you cannot spot the problems without even searching for them.
Coward. You replied to yourself hoping I would not see the bullshit and blatant lies you wrote. Pathetic, mate. Arseholes like you are not worth the time of day. Libertarian bullshit artists like you who treated the pandemic like a political football and watched 250,000 unvaccinated Americans die of COVID-19 during 2021 because they either delayed or rejected vaccination as a result of the bullshit and lies put out by arseholes like you. You should hang your head in shame, boy.
Errrm, Good reply addressing all of my points? Calling me names just destroys your own argument. 😒
You seem to indicate that anything other than the vax and masks and lockdowns was not an option. They were all options, and the correct options according to decades of medical knowledge.
When you get down to the details, what you and others are doing, is basically telling kids to be seriously injured or die to "save granny", as everyone agrees that kids have essentially zero chance of dying from Covid (well under 1 in a million in most countries) and the average age of covid deaths is not that different to the average age of death overall. I can assure you that even if that were true, there are very few grannies who will be happy with this, never mind the kids or the parents (it didn't stop transmission as it didn't confer mucosal or sterilising immunity, so not even this is true)... To make matters worse, they advocate for multiple jabs, so actually, the vax needs to be many times safer than catching covid, as only one covid infection is likely to be lethal (the first one).
Even in the Pfizer phase 3 trial itself on kids 11-15, there was one girl who suffered horribly, she was paralysed from the waist down, rushed to hospital 9 times, 10-20 siezures in a day, heart problems, vomiting, severe abdominal pain, blood in her urine, neurological problems, and now permanently in a wheelchair with a feeding tube, even after many years and probably permanently. In that trial, only 1131 got the vaccine. You could argue that basically 1 in 1000 could be adversely affected, but I know that's not how statistics work. Let's say instead that she was extremely unlucky and we multiply by ~10, now it's 1 in 10000. That's still horrific! Even in the trial, that family got no help, and there are many many other stories of the same thing happening to kids all over the world. Most being dismissed as caused by literally everything but the vax. Watch this video and tell me the way they were treated was right you hypocrite. And how did the EUA get approved despite this!
Every medication has side effects, doctors and individuals have to be able to raise their concerns. If they are injured, then they "did the right thing" and should also be helped, but the exact opposite is happening, even after the trial. I honestly can't understand how nobody sees the problem with this. Pfizer got fined billions just a few years ago, the biggest medical fine in history (but still only a slap on the wrist compared to the profits they made). They aren't an ethical company and even if they were, how is questioning something that is so obviously not proven safe yet, a bad thing. Excess deaths, especially in the young, are exploding everywhere and they don't even want to investigate it in many countries. Why would they not want to at least find out that it's not the vax?!? They already know, it's just the propagandised masses that don't.
I was just going to let it lie, but when they're harping on about disease X now and the WHO is going full steam ahead to ensure that next time, there will be no resistance and no control group (ie worldwide mandates). I have to try at least to wake up the naive masses that are dragging us all to a totalitarian future that no-one wants. Enjoy the video. There are hundreds more like it, but good luck actually finding them via the heavily censored Google search...
You are absolutely clueless. You clearly have no background in either medicine or science - which is clear from the absolute bullshit you are spewing here - yet you have no hesitation whatsoever telling recognised experts - who have studied the subject for a decade or more, and now do this as their day job - that they are WRONG! The arrogance of your ignorance is absolutely extraordinary!
Vaccinations saved 15-20 million lives. The mRNA vaccines alone about 5.5 million lives. On the other hand, infections killed 15-20 million. And here you are aiding and abetting the morbidity and mortality caused by the deadly virus. You are nothing but a disgraceful and ignorant antivaxxer. Your comments are full of lying antivax tropes and memes that helped kill 250,000 unvaccinated Americans in 2021. Let that sink in, you disgusting creature.
I also agree that you need to know experts in the industry. Thankfully I have a relative and several acquaintances, who also do this as their day job. They've told me how it is in private, because they can't in public (this in itself is shocking), and I can verify it all with some quick searches. They actually work on vaccines and they are horrified that their field has been brought into serious disrepute because of covid. The older vaccines at least went though some level of proper testing, these new modRNA ones don't even work in principle, and are frankly dangerous, according to them. In the beginning, maybe some of the panic could have been justified but now, after all we have found out... it's just madness. Just because some vaccines are fine, doesn't make them all fine, how is that difficult to understand.
Their word is all the proof I need, as I trust the experts that have earned my trust, not the pronouncements of some bought and paid for expert, shilling a new book and... well, I don't know what you are... apart from rude, and not worth any more of my time...
Why don't you try addressing some of my points and the lies that I've called you out on. You can't, so let's just leave it at that.
Billy Joe you spout numbers on and on. How do you know 250,000 unvaccinated died? Where did you get the #s and what does unvaccinated mean? The gov was not counting vac until 2 weeks after the last jab. Grateful to be free from people looking like you who think they know everything. No one is listening anymore so keep up your name calling and trying to convince of all of your propaganda. Look at the comments. The likes of you are dying breed. I thank the good Lord for that every day and I say to you keep getting your vaccines and leave the rest of us alone.
You say that like it's a bad thing. What do you base your decisions on? Gut feelings? Surely statistics are of the utmost importance.
"How do you know 250,000 unvaccinated died?'
Statistics. And I've recently been informed that this figure is wrong. It's actually closer to 300,000.
"what does unvaccinated mean?"
It means you have not had a particular vaccine. What do you think it means?
"The gov was not counting vac until 2 weeks after the last jab"
Funny that. For some reason they count you as vaccinated when you actually have reacted to the vaccine and produced antibodies! But there are also statistics that count from the day you were vaccinated (ONS data in the UK).
"Grateful to be free from people looking like you who think they know everything."
I don't know everything. But you seem to know nothing at all, so I guess that's why it seems that way to you.
"No one is listening anymore"
Please do not presume to speak for everyone. It is true, however, that most of the general population have absorbed the vaccine message, gotten vaccinated, and simply gotten on with their lives. They are not interested in coming here to argue with people who won't listen anyway. So, unfortunately, we are left with a group of hardcore antivaxxers who actually know almost nothing about science or medicine.
I mean, what are your ideas about Relativity Theory and Quantum Field Theory? How would you treat someone with renal failure? You haven't a clue and you wouldn't presume to tell anyone that does know that they are wrong. But, for some reason, you feel perfectly entitled to offer an opinion about vaccines even though you know nothing about virology, epidemiology, or public health.
"all of your propaganda"
Science is not propaganda. Anti-science is propaganda. Antivax is anti-science which is propaganda and that antivax propaganda killed 300,000 unvaccinated Americans in 2021. Think about that. Think about that when you go to sleep at night. There were scientists, public health experts, and health care workers all over the world who worked around the clock for over two years to produce and distribute those vaccines that saved 15-20 million lives - lives that your propaganda just literally threw away. You should hang your head in shame.
"Look at the comments. The likes of you are dying breed."
Funny that you talk about a "dying breed", when those 300,000 who died in 2021 were NOT vaccinated. The adverse comments are made by those who are clearly medically and scientifically illiterate - like you (I'm right, aren't I? You have absolutely no background in either medicine or science) - and simply demonstrates that we have a lot of work to do before the next pandemic.
"I thank the good Lord"
I'm sorry, but I doubt the feeling is mutual. I doubt your Lord would thank you for ignoring a life-saving vaccine that he sent you, let alone for pushing deadly propaganda that killed 300,000 of your fellow Americans in 2021.
"leave the rest of us alone."
You STILL don't seem to realise that pandemics are community infections that require a community responses. Your illogical and unscientific decision not to vaccinate affects not only you but those around you. In the US, there are 9 million people who are immunocompromised and don't respond adequately to the vaccines. They rely on everyone else for protection. Unvaccinated people produce and transmit more virus than vaccinated people. They also use up valuable health resources. In 2022, the unvaccinated were 12 times more likely to be hospitalised and this was when hospitals were running at full capacity.
The default is that all my points are correct unless and until they are refuted. Give it a go tiny tot. As for ivermectin. That drug has been tested in RCTs and was shown to be ineffective for both the prevention and treatment of COVID-19. Period.
Do you have some data to back up your claims? Especially, masking (https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full) and pregnant women trials for the vaccines. I don't believe there were any RTCs on pregnant women. How many children without co morbid conditions died OF covid? I don't believe that the CDC ever released that number. But correct me if I'm wrong. I understand, why people are so passionate in defense of the covid response. It's really hard to admit you have been played. Especially once you inject yourself and maybe your children with a gene therapy product that has never been used in man before. You cannot look yourself in the mirror knowing that you may have shortened your life of the life of your children. Your defense of the vaccines needs to be passionate in order to keep on living.
I would love for Dr. Offit to explain the absolute vs relative risk reduction for the Covid vaccine. That 96% effective # was pulled out of thin air just like the "6th foot social distancing " rule
"The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low adherence with the interventions during the studies hampers drawing firm conclusions. There were additional RCTs during the pandemic related to physical interventions but a relative paucity given the importance of the question of masking and its relative effectiveness and the concomitant measures of mask adherence which would be highly relevant to the measurement of effectiveness, especially in the elderly and in young children.
There is uncertainty about the effects of face masks. The low to moderate certainty of evidence means our confidence in the effect estimate is limited, and that the true effect may be different from the observed estimate of the effect.
There is a need for large, well‐designed RCTs addressing the effectiveness of many of these interventions in multiple settings and populations, as well as the impact of adherence on effectiveness, especially in those most at risk of ARIs."
The author's also wrote a letter drawing the public's attention to the above after their study was misused by social media influencers who, for various financial and political reasons, have aligned themselves with the anti-vaccine industry.
And? There is no evidence that masking, or any other NPIs, in a community setting decreases the transmission of respiratory viruses. Mandating an intervention, especially to children, needs to be based on strong evidence. So yes, if there is other EVIDENCE that masking works then the conclusions would be different. If there was EVIDENCE that the world is flat, then the CONCLUSION that the earth is round would be different.
The Pharmaceutical Industry has gained BILLIONS from the pandemic. what is the Anit-Vax industry? Can you be more specific? I guess you'll need to point me in the direction of some evidence that the ANTI VAX industry is comparable to the Pharmaceutical Industry in financial gains and corruption. Good luck with that and I'm happy to change my mind with the evidence your present. If I'm unable to change my mind with evidence then I'm following dogma, not science.
What do you mean by "and?". Your claim was that "Masks Do Not Work", and you provided a link to that I have just shown you does NOT support your claim that "Masks Do Not Work".
"There is no evidence that masking ... decreases the transmission of respiratory viruses"
That is a different claim. But that claim is also false. There is lots of evidence that:
- masks help reduce your risk of transmitting the infection if you are infected.
- masks help reduce the risk of you becoming infected if you are not infected.
- masks reduce the infecting dose and therefore reduce the severity of the illness.
In any case, I am quite certain that even you don't believe your own narrative. Otherwise, I would invite you to spend time in a room with an active Ebola patient without the benefit of a mask. Ebola has a 30% mortality rate.
"Mandating an intervention, especially to children, needs to be based on strong evidence."
I am guessing you have no training in public health. Am I right? Because that is also a false claim. When the risk is death and we are in the middle of a deadly pandemic, and the intervention has no serious adverse effects, then less than strong evidence can certainly be sufficient.
"The Pharmaceutical Industry..."
What has The Pharmaceutical Industry to do with whether or not masks work?
"what is the Anit-Vax industry?"
That was my way of referring to social media influencers who are anti-vaccine. They do this as a business operation, monetising their YouTube channels and their Substacks, and selling supplements. Joe Mercola, for example, is an ordinary GP who is now worth $100 million as a result of selling supplements, with no proven benefit, in place of vaccines and pharmaceuticals.
Your question exposes your lack of knowledge about the nature of scientific evidence. Not every question in science is decided with an RCT. It is the golden standard but not the only standard. There are other reliable sources of information that make RCTs either unnecessary or, indeed, unethical.
For example, some of the original trial participants, although not pregnant on entry into the trial, did become pregnant during the trial. And, after the vaccine was rolled out, many women who were unknowingly pregnant were vaccinated; and many who were vaccinated subsequently became pregnant. Post-marketing surveillance of 5.5 billion doses of the mRNA vaccine captured a large group of vaccinated pregnant women and determined all of the following:
If you are pregnant and unvaccinated and test positive for COVID-19 you have a higher risk of:
- admission to hospital
- admission to an intensive care unit
- invasive ventilation (breathing life support).
And your baby has an increased risk of:
- premature birth (before 37 weeks of pregnancy)
- stillbirth
- admission to a hospital newborn care unit.
So, the advice for pregnant women to get vaccinated against COVID-19 was based on this information. To conduct an actual RCT would have taken an enormous amount of time, expense, and effort and resulted in an unacceptable outcome for numerous pregnant women and their babies while the results were pending.
Unfortunately, the content of your reply consists of nothing more than antivax propaganda that has been spread by social media influencers for personal financial gain who have to keep finding more and more outrageous content to satisfy their audiences. None of what you said is backed by any reliable scientific evidence whatsoever.
So happy with these comments that I would like to read more to further my education. Can you supply a citation for the data on post-marketing surveillance? Also, a citation for the data on "If you are pregnant and unvaccinated and test positive for COVID-19 you have a higher risk of..." Thanks a ton!
"Can you supply a citation for the data on post-marketing surveillance?"
Come on, JHM, show me some good faith by doing some work yourself. So far, it is just me doing all the work. I mean, why are you even in the discussion if you don't know about post-marketing surveillance? There is a ton of data and its freely available.
"Also, a citation for the data on "If you are pregnant and unvaccinated and test positive for COVID-19 you have a higher risk of..." Thanks a ton!"
Ironically, there IS a ton of data. So, you really would owe me a ton of thanks. On the other hand, there is no point in referring you to any one paper, or even a dozen or more- which is cherry-picking anyway and no doubt you could play the same game and we'd both just waste a lot of time going back and forth - because the scientific conclusions and recommendations are based on ALL of the evidence not just a few selected papers.
The unskilled layperson has no choice but to rely on the evaluation of all the evidence by recognised experts in the relevant fields of science. That sucks, I know, but I'm guessing you can't remove a gallbladder either, or do root canal work so, no harm in being a complete novice as far as medical science research is concerned if you haven't actually been trained as a medical scientist.
Here are the facts at the time the vaccine was rolled out:
1) The Infection Mortality Ratio was 0.68%. This means that the SARS-CoV-2 virus killed 6,800 of every 1 million people that it infected.
2) The Mortality Rate for the mRNA vaccine is FAR LESS THAN 1 in a million.
3) The vaccine reduced the risk of severe disease and, therefore, hospitalisation and death by 95%. In other words, it could have potentially saved 95% of those 6800 lives per million people who became infected with the virus.
4) At the time the vaccine was first rolled out, on average 3,500 people were dying of COVID-19 every single day.
Yes, there are problems with the vaccine.
Yes, the vaccine can be improved.
And, yes, the vaccine had an extremely low risk/benefit ratio.
The most thoroughly tested in history..are you kidding. They are not vaccines. What vaccine have you had to take up to seven times in 3/years and can still spread and get infected from the virus. The COVID mRNA vaccine was NEVER tested in pregnant women. You have no idea what you are talking about.
No vaccine prevents infection. You have to get infected to stimulate the immune response, and this includes an immune response primed by a vaccine.
The mRNA clearly IS a vaccine. It stimulates an immune response. Therefore, it IS a vaccine. Period. Moreover, it is a very successful vaccine initially reducing severe infection, hospitalisation and death by 95%. It has saved 3 million lives in the US alone.
The mRNA vaccine IS the most thoroughly tested in history on the basis that in Phase IV of the clinical trial (post marketing surveillance after roll out of the vaccine) there is information on about 5.5 billion doses.
There IS information on the outcome of vaccination of women who became pregnant both during the clinical trials and after the vaccine was rolled out. We have information about those who were inadvertently pregnant or who became pregnant despite taking precautions or failing to take precautions after getting vaccinated. This has shown conclusively that it is safer for pregnant women and for their babies if pregnant women are vaccinated than if they are not vaccinated. To be clear, there never was any reason to think this vaccine would present any harm to pregnant women or their babies.
Requiring boosters does not make a vaccine a non-vaccine, it just makes the virus a tricky virus. The vaccines in the childhood Immunisation schedule need 3-5 doses for optimal effect. In general, that is what has been required for the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines in people over 65 years of age or with multiple co-morbidities.
So, Kathy Jelaca-Maxwell, YOU are the one who has no idea what you are talking about. And your arrogance is astounding given that you are telling a paediatric infectious disease specialist with a special interest in vaccines who has himself invented a vaccine (for rotavirus) that he does not know what he is talking about.
OMG Dr. Offit -- you didn't need a whole book to try to explain what happened....it's really quite simple to explain why anti-vaccine activism soared: Many people experienced directly or saw in others just how REAL, how frequent and how terrible vaccine injury is....though the more one's livelihood is privileged by pharma -- the harder it is for them to overcome their brainwashing to recognize the truth of what happened right before their eyes. Stanley Milgram's work is more insightful to all this than yours is.
We don't need you to now "spin" what happened to keep the sinking boat afloat any longer. What we need is for you to open your heart, mind and eyes to the egregious harm you and your peers have facilitated and now spend the rest of your life, trying to undo it.
Yeah and take a look a the measles outbreak in the US that taking place NOW because of ill - informed people like yourself that's spreading lies that vaccines kill people.
Where’s the pathological evidence that the vaccines caused all of these injuries? What is the pathophysiology that links the vaccines to these injuries? Have all other possible causes been ruled out?
Your questions are valid -- but you asking them now, shows how little research on this subject you have actually done (though you could have a valid defense that collusion by industry and government and big tech has made it difficult to find the evidence.)
If you are sincere in wanting these answers look at the evidence presented by Dr. Pierre Kory, Dr Ryan Cole, Dr. Jessica Rose, Dr. Peter McCullough, Dr. Theresa Long, Dr. Tess Lawrie, Dr. John Campbell, Dr. Claire Craig, Dr. Byram Bridle, Debra Conrad PA, Dr. Robert Malone....to name a few.
But also keep in mind....until just recently, when a new drug or medical technology was introduced -- if "coincidentally" following it's use there were observed adverse events -- that drug was ALWAYS presumed GUILTY -- until proven otherwise. But now we have thrown the cautionary principal out the window.
The doctors you mention are just a list of the usual antivaccine suspects. I doubt that looking only at antivax propaganda Substacks, websites and youtube videos will provide an independent perspective on the matter.
Dr. John Campbell? Ha! He's a glorified nurse. I watched him for years struggling to keep his YouTube site going. Then covid hit and right away he realized they're was big $$$ bucks in spinning and twisting the truth about vaccines, and people like yourself found another kindred spirit in the destruction of mankind for $$$.
Given that the vaccine was being taken at the same time as Covid was still raging, it would be a bit of a challenge for any casual observer to discriminate between effects of vaccine and Covid itself.
But antivaxxers would claim any health incident to a public figure as due to the vaccine without first confirming whether or not the person was even vaccinated. Their minds were made up about which was worst before one of them even existed.
You may as well save your breath. They will never listen. It's a religion. If they get their way and childhood vaccinations become a thing of the past and uncountable children suffer and die of diphtheria, polio, measles (yes children, you can DIE from that), pertussis, etc etc, will they be happy then?
that also the whole covid-thing was grabbed with both hands and skillfully instrumentalized by the operators (domestic and abroad) of the broader MAGA operation..
(And of course by those just making a good grifting living in and out of the (media-)environment created by it, without necessarily always sharing its political or ideological goals (but at the same time being among the ones being instrumentalized (bioweapons??)
And of course those planning to be part of the mainstream health establishment of the new, great again America to come.
Good nice example is "Americas Frontline Doctors". Be very aware which frontline they mean. Hint: it's NOT the one in the battle against covid..
(which, admitted, ís in line with the fact that hardly any if them has worked in those frontlines.)
That they have labcoats saying "America's Frontline Doctors" gives another hint to how planned it is, and also maybe to how gullible they count on their public to be.
(Or are these the labcoats of the big Americas Frontline Doctors-lab or -hospital?)
Pierre Kory was the guy who testified before a congressional committee that he took ivermectin and that it was 100% protective against Covid...right before he and his family came down with Covid.
A whole book? Sorry, that's often too much for me..yes Pierre Kory was on that frontline. But it seems he actually was wrong about ivermectin.
It was intensively tested, and the better the test, the less result.
It may have worked a bit, but not as clearly as the vaccines. Most people get well after covid anyway. That must have
So when masses of people refuse to vaccinate (no matter how free) because they can take ivermectin (no matter the hastle and cost and shortage for those really needing it), i can imagine authorities and others see a problem. Because that problem is there.
Metformin otoh is proven to work. I never understand why nobody (incl. authorities btw) started pushing that medicine.
Probably because it works, but not as good as the vaccine. And again, for those actually needing metformin
Otoh i remember him just holding on to the fact that he saw what he saw. But that may not have meant what he thinks it meant. According to the tests it didn't mean that. Most people would probably have gotten well anyway, ivermectin or not. There also may have been some placebo-effect. That's not the ivermectin itselve. The effects are tiny in comparson to the vaccines. That's what i understand of it.
So ivermectin great! Until vaccines. Nót as a replacememt for vaccination after vaccines have arrived. The risks of the latter are too low in comparison to covid (except for only myocardatis (not any other AE) with moderna with young men), while they clearly do reduce the overall risk of covid.
With metformin it may have been different. But i never heard of it anymore for some or other reason.
I will be sorry not to see these amusing contributions of your unfettered vitriol in the future, as I assume you’ll stop reading Offit’s “drivel” from now on.
Looking forward to reading this, Dr. Offit, and learning more about your experience and front row seat. I'm committed to learning more about how to understand where we are with the pandemic, how to lend advice and take advice, and how to build deeper trust and understanding for us all.
Loads of shit has been tested on animals. We don’t care if old chickens get cancer or autoimmune conditions when they’re sent to the abattoir at a few months old. Doesn’t mean that we feel the same about people. Or at least, I don’t feel the same about people…maybe not everyone prioritises human life like I do.
Nope..horse paste is great for horse parasites. It doesn't cure humans of Covid. But if you also have a parasitic infection such as intestinal worms, you may feel better. Perhaps you should try some.
Yes, it has been in use for 40 years, and the platform has been used unsuccessfully in the past as an experimental vaccine in prostate cancer IIRC and in other viral infections.
These are experimental. In desperate people whose tumours have progressed on current standard of care, often after many lines of therapy. That is rather different to vaccinating healthy people. You wouldn’t offer a healthy person chemotherapy either, because it is toxic, yet we use it in treating cancer.
We do not know yet if mRNA approaches to cancer have any benefit. They almost certainly have harms. None are approved for use, because we do not have this data. It might be that they are never approved, but even if they are we can in NO WAY extrapolate a putative therapeutic benefit in advanced cancer to prophylactic use in the general population.
Look, stop moving the goal posts and playing the "No True Scotsman" fallacy card, will you?
....The claims were that this tech platform was new (it's clearly not), and that it hasn't been used before in humans before the Covid vaccines (it clearly has).
Of course it is experimental; all drugs are until fully approved and until any and all research on them has ended (which seldom happens). Do you call aspirin "experimental"? I guess you do, because people are still performing research studies on it.
I didn't... The articles you noted were all from post 2020. Find a product that was mRNA in use before 2020... Fully approved... I didn't move the goal posts you did.
the original comment was about how is wasn't a new and unapproved thing... that is what I was getting back to. Have a good day!
Number of deaths quoted are off. It was about 100k Covid deaths in the US by end of May 2020 and 350k during all of 2020. I just checked these numbers on the CDC Wonder website.
No one needs to read non fiction about COVID-19. This author is a serial liar who recommended and continues to recommend you inject yourself with a poison that has proven to not stop you from getting Covid-19 doesn’t stop you from transmitting Covid-19 doesn’t reduce your risk of hospitalization or death in fact it increases both risks. A poison that has killed between 13-17 million people world wide which is 2 times the number killed by the disease itself and most of those deaths were caused by the treatment given in the hospitals. So no one wants to read your lies and distortions of reality. The fact that the National Geographic is behind this is another good reason I stopped subscribing to it after 40+ years. As they have lost their way and no longer report anything but climateism narrative
Do you actually have a job where you treat people or do you spend your time trying to convince a retired 68 year old woman how smart you are? Never siting references.. I never got the COVID jab and as far as I know never gave COVID to anyone. I guess I’m in the field with many who know nothing at all and am so glad to be there. Yes most of the people got vaccinated in the beginning and then they stopped, most after 2, then the rest after 4 jabs. When they were getting COVID over and over again. I don’t speak for everyone, I just look at the numbers. People are not buying into the narrative anymore. and you speak about people who won’t listen to any narrative but their own. Look in the mirror that is you. And who are you anyway. I am not a hard core antivaxxer. I love how you all think that we are because we don’t think like you. You can post again, but I’m done with this thread. Go try to help some people instead of trying to impress me with just how brilliant you think you are!
You and the likes of you like Fauci, Marks, Hotez, Topol, Ofiit, are why Americans have lost faith in our healthcare system and the medical profession.
There will a movie about the covid vaccines and the FDA in about 10 years or so just like Purdue Pharma, the FDA and the Opioid crisis. Until the revolving door between Pharma, the CDC, and FDA is shut in the US the American people will still be left to the mercy of doctors trying to make a buck.
Cardinal Health, McKesson, AmerisourceBergen, Johnson & Johnson (2022)
Doctors prescribed opioids for numerous ailments that did not require it, leading to a major addiction crisis. This settlement came to $26 billion, with $23.9 billion of the settlement funding efforts to stem the opioid crisis.
GlaxoSmithKline (2012)
GlaxoSmithKline, LLC pled guilty for unlawfully promoting prescription drugs and failing to report safety information. This settlement came out to $3 billion. The money was used as follows: $2 billion for civil liabilities; $43.1 million for forfeiture; and $956.8 million for criminal fines.
Pfizer (2009)
This settlement came out to $2.3 billion as a result of the false promotion of Bextra Valdecoxib Tablets, Geodon Capsules, Lyrica Pregabalin, and Zyvox. Pfizer faced allegations of paying kickbacks and submitting false claims to the government. The settlement money was used as follows: $1.3 billion for criminal fines and $1 billion for civil settlements for illegal drug promotions.
Johnson & Johnson (2013)
Johnson & Johnson pleaded guilty to misbranding the antipsychotic drug Risperdal. Allegations included off-label marketing and kickbacks to doctors and pharmacists. The settlement reached $2.2 billion – $1.72 billion was used for civil settlements, $419 million was used for criminal fines, and $66 million was used for forfeiture.
Abbott (2012)
In 2012, Abbott pleaded guilty to a criminal misdemeanor for unlawful promotion of the prescription drug Depakote for uses not approved by the FDA. The settlement came to $1.5 billion and was used for: $800 million in civil settlements, $500 million for criminal fines, $198.5 million for forfeiture, and $1.5 million for Virginia Medicaid Fraud Control Unit.
Hi Paul - to have a wider audience, you need an ebook version.
You also need quality control in the comments - the ill-informed antivaxx comments are atrocious and spread deadly disinformation about vaccines that harms public health. For example, I would delete the astoundingly ignorant response of LX below.
I've just started watching the post-Covid season on New Amsterdam and it's the first show that's really including Covid and its many effects as a main part of the story. We in NZ avoided most of the worst of the disease itself, and only had to contend with the vaccine resistance and associated Trump support (bizarre in a country that matters so little to him), so watching this fictional take kind of makes it feel like it *was* fiction. What a privileged position this is to have.
“Escaped the worst of it”. Only if you don’t mind being forced to lock yourself in your house for two years, you xenophobes also completely eliminated any travel or immigration. I see that New Zealand clearly did not escape the wrath of TDS.
The initial lockdown wasn't to flatten the curve in NZ. It was to get rid of it altogether. (We still had cases, but they were in people arriving from overseas, and were contained.) This page gives you a good idea of how it went for us in terms of community cases. Look how the virus only really finally started hitting the general population in early 2022
Maybe it's that you just don't understand what you're reading. As your article states, _New Zealanders_ could come back to NZ, as long as they went through managed isolation. And this bit:
"Health gains that see us _going about our daily lives pretty much as normal_"
i.e. NOT locked in our houses, but going to work, to school, shopping etc because for most of the time between 2020 and being able to get most of the adult population vaccinated, there were no cases in the community in most of the country.
And even during lockdown, you could leave your house, even for recreational purposes, as long as you stayed local.
Offit declined the most recent booster and then admitted he didn’t get last year’s either. Although in his 70s he said he was concerned about myocarditis.
No, he didn't say he was concerned about myocarditis, that's a lie.
He declined a booster because he'd already had one the previous year, he has hybrid immunity from infection + vaccination, and he isn't in a vulnerable risk group.
“He (Offit) notes that the mRNA vaccines made by the Pfizer/BioNTech collaboration and Moderna also have a risk of causing a heart condition called myocarditis.”
That was literally part of his answer explaining why he’s not getting the jab. I can tell that you know you are wrong when you have no response but name-calling, when I provide a direct quote that trashes your absurd nonsense.
I find it ironic that so many of the comments here criticize the development and use of the vaccine. My problem is that we who are most at risk - the elderly (those over 65+ are 30 million people) are barred from getting two or even three vaccines or more, to perhaps prevent infection at all. No infection equals no hospital visits and no deaths. I know that preventing infection is a very limited outcome from vaccination, but any improvement in mortality is worth it unless there is an equal or greater negative impact. You have been one of the most consistent advocates of limiting vaccine shots. Yet you have not come up with any credible description to the downside of more vaccines being delivered. You implicitly address that issue in your article above by referring to annual vaccines and maybe some who shouldn't
get them at all. Defend your position for us please. What is the downside?
DM there is NO EVIDENCE to support this statement you made:
"No infection equals no hospital visits and no deaths"
And the skyrocketing all cause mortality in working age adults -- that happened AFTER the vaccine roll out -- including in Western Australia -- which rolled out the vaccine BEFORE COVID was loose there, contradicts your assertion -- people are going to the hospital and dying from a zillion other things related to clotting issues and the depression of their over-all immunity to everything else (Just consider the increase in RSV, TB, Monkey Pox and other diseases observed AFTER we mass vaccinated!)
The pertinent thing is to calculate excess deaths by comparing them to the expected number for that period, and you calculate the expected numbers by taking an average of the previous 5 years. That evens out the variability inherent in just comparing it only to the previous year.
For example, if you wish to get an idea what the weather will be like in July 2024, you don’t compare it just to what the weather was like in July 2023.
For the Australian data they use a 5 year average. In 2021, excess all cause mortality was 1.4% above expected. That was the year of the vaccine roll out.
Covid cases started to rise in late 2021 along with the easing of restrictions and the spread of Omicron. Deaths started to go up as a result, and in 2022 they had risen substantially, forcing up the excess mortality to 10.9% higher than expected.
There is indeed a downside to vaccines, but the benefits hugely outweigh these risks. Downsides include a small risk with the mRNA vaccines for myocarditis (between one in 20,000 to 100,000 shots), but this is usually mild and transient without serious consequences. It has also reduced in incidence since the shots have been spaced out as boosters (the risk is primarily for those getting another shot 3 weeks after the first one).
With the AstraZeneca/J&J vaccines, there is a tiny risk of VITT with clotting issues that in rare cases have cause venous sinus thrombosis with stroke and even death.
Otherwise, the downsides are mainly those seen with just about any other vaccine...limited to very rare anaphylaxis risk, local reactions and short term systemic reactions due to activation of the immune system.
As you point out, the reduction in mortality and reduction in serious acute and chronic (long Covid) consequences of infection are excellent reasons to get vaccinated.
“Excellent reasons to get vaccinated” - obviously you’ll hear no argument from me. Thanks for the description of the downside risks. Their rarity - which you point out can be further reduced by maintaining at least 3 weeks between boosters - certainly also supports multiple boosters every year, at least for the enormous group of seniors at much higher risk than the general population. For some reason, which I find unfathomable, Dr Offit doesn’t see it. He even opposes one booster for some people. Why this resistance? At least it ought to be a matter of personal choice. If - seemingly unlikely - it did prove more dangerous than currently perceived, the individual making the decision is the only one at risk. The CDC and FDA don’t need to “recommend”, only “permit” multiple boosters for at least certain higher risk people. They have made such exceptions for the “immunocompromised”but are strangely unwilling to do it for the also at high risk seniors - an enormously larger group!
CDC guidance is for all those over the age of 2 to get a booster, unless you've recently had Covid in which case wait 3 months. Most other countries recommend boosters for those over the age of 65, or who have vulnerabilities/comorbidities.
I see your point. I’d say that more than one booster per year would only be a consideration if one also had vulnerabilities such as immunodeficiency. In those scenarios maintaining immunity year round may be desirable but otherwise getting your booster in the fall to prepare for the usual winter uptick in prevalence may suffice.
People's immunity declines with age. Those of us who are older are (on average) at higher risk as a consequence. The amount of risk will vary and clearly most of the immunocompromised be the most at risk. Your words "may suffice" are key: the elderly should specifically be PERMITTED to get multiple boosters. Now we are not able to.
I understand that virology is a fraudulent “science”.
“Viruses” have NEVER been proven to cause any illness, to be replication competent, to even exist at all! Vaccines are injections of poisons. No live virus, no dead viruses. No pros just cons. Stay as far away from them as possible!
Of course there is no evidence that a virus leaked from a lab because there is NO virus!
Zoonotic spillover does not exist. Contagion does not exist! Billy Joe: you are a brain washed lunatic!
Why don't you get up to date with your vaccines before preaching to everyone else. They are obviously so harmful that you can't even bring yourself to take them. Regardless of the terrible optics of that. At least you had the decency to not lie to us about that fact, but then it begs the question, if you're really so committed to the vaccines, then you should have taken the hit like everyone else that had it mandated to keep their jobs and freedoms. It's for the greater good!
Anyway, it is exactly you and other bought and paid for mouthpieces that lead us exactly to where we are now. There were things we knew would work. Anyone with even the most basic knowledge of virology and vaccines know that the response made literally no sense unless it was to usher in this very dangerous new technology and take it mainstream. You never vaccinate into a pandemic, masks don't work for respiratory viruses spread by aerosols, you don't target a rapidly mutating target with your vaccine, you don't disallow doctors from trying out existing medications, you don't abandon early treatment, you don't recommend new untested medications to pregnant women and children, you don't lock down because more people will ultimately die if you do, you don't sabotage any attempt to get the real number of deaths FROM covid, you don't unnecessarily scare the public, you don't pass off a gene therapy as a vaccine to skirt the testing requirements, you don't lie about the origins, you don't suppress all attempts to gather data or do research that might even remotely paint it in a bad light (including miscategorisation and not origins autopsies)...
The list is almost endless. These are all medicine 101. Yet all of this was thrown out of the window and everything was done to institute totalitarian controls and take modRNA mainstream, and then you have the gall to turn around and say you were under pressure and we made some mistakes, but somehow this was still the right way to go... when excess deaths are through the roof!? And then feign surprise that people are suspicious of all vaccines, including perfectly good (or at least less harmful) non modRNA ones?! Give me a break! I know people in the industry and they have given me the truth. Most people don't have this luxury, they rely on "experts" like you, and you be have let them down very badly. You are nothing but a vaccine industry shill and history will not look kindly on you and your ilk.
FYI, Dr. Paul Offit took all the vaccinations recommended for him in his age group for somone who has no co-morbidities and already had one infection.
The vaccines saved an estimated 15-20 million lives. The mRNA vaccines saved 5.5 million lives alone. On the other hand, the infection, aided and abetted by anti-vaccine activism, killed an estimated 15-20 million.
So this would have been 30-40 million killed by the virus if there was no vaccine and about a quarter of the actual death toll if everyone for whom the vaccine was available took it and wasn't scare-mongered out of it by anti-vaccine agitators.
During 2021, 250,000 unvaccinated Americans died because they either delayed or rejected vaccinations as a result of anti-vaccine propaganda. You should be ashamed for being part of the cause of this tragedy.
Below I correct all the things you said that are FALSE:
- you do not understand basic virology and immunology
- pandemics are exactly when you roll out vaccines.
- masks work - I invite you to work with an active Ebola patient and not wear a mask!
- the technology was proven not only safe but effective.
- there are vaccines that target both rapidly mutating viruses and slow mutating viruses.
- repurposing existing medication was not disallowed, it was actually the first response.
- you abandon early treatment when RCTs show that it is ineffective.
- pregnant women were vaccinated only after safety & effectiveness was established.
- breast-feeding women were vaccinated only after safety & effectiveness was established.
- children were vaccinated only after safety & effectiveness was established.
- lockdowns and other mitigation measures saved lives until a vaccine became available.
- the mRNA vaccine are not drugs, they are vaccines.
- the mRNA vaccines are not experimental.
- the mRNA vaccines are now the most thoroughly tested vaccines in history.
- the mRNA vaccines when through stage I, II, III clinical trials like all vaccines.
- the mRNA vaccines have been through post-marketing surveillance of 5.5 billion doses.
- the virus evolved in the wild and passed to humans in two zoonotic spillover events.
- there is strong epidemiological evidence this occurred at the Huanan Seafood market.
- there is no scientific evidence the virus was genetically engineered in a lab.
- there is virtually no scientific evidence that the virus leaked from a lab.
- you do not understand totalitarianism confusing it with pandemic measures to reduce death.
- excess deaths are caused by long term effects of infection, not vaccines.
- excess deaths are not "through the roof".
- it is the unvaccinated who are still dying in excess numbers, not the vaccinated.
The list of lies is almost endless.
Woah, my comment has had rather a lot of activity it seems!
I had this at the bottom of my reply, but nobody will see it then. I'm paraphrasing a nice comment I saw somewhere, but all people need to know is that if those in power need to censor, bully, ridicule, jail, mandate, socially ostracise, drive from their jobs, have every media outlet weaponise your humanity against opposition to it and then ram it down your throat using every phychological technique in the book 24/7, then to put it mildly, whatever it is they are pushing is likely not in your best interests.
Censorship and loss of medical freedoms NEVER EVER led anywhere good. No matter how noble sounding the cause or which scaremongering tactics they use, you must see the bigger picture. This is not just about the here and now. I am fed up of the propagandised majority trying to help the tyrants take these freedoms from us. Thankfully they've overplayed their hand this time and the truth is now pouring out. The latest vaccine uptake rates and excess death statistics don't lie, people are starting to notice and the tide is beginning to turn. The shills will see what it feels like to be the pariahs of society soon. Stay strong!
As for BillyJoe here... Where do I even start! Everything I listed is best medical practice... or it was until this pandemic came along. You can look in almost any medical textbook and they will say the same thing. My point was to highlight this glaring dissonance between what was accepted medical practice, based on decades of research, and the completely incomprehensible response to Covid. You can quote all the manipulated statistics around covid all you want, but it doesn't change any of these facts.
You basically failed to address any of my points anyway, but there are a few zingers in there that I feel I must highlight.
BillyJoe's very first comment:
"FYI, Dr. Paul Offit took all the vaccinations recommended for him in his age group for somone who has no co-morbidities and already had one infection. "
I'm assuming he is in the US so, CDC own website, updated 01/2024 says:
"Everyone aged 5 years and older ‡ should get 1 dose of an updated COVID-19 vaccine to protect against serious illness from COVID-19."
Under ‡
"People aged 12 years and older who got COVID-19 vaccines before September 12, 2023, should get 1 updated Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, or Novavax COVID-19 vaccine."
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/stay-up-to-date.html
So no, unless Paul is less than 5 years old, he is not up to date, or following the recommendations, and since he didn't get the last update either, he is a long time hypocrite and you obviously don't know what you're talking about.
I say:
"masks don't work for respiratory viruses spread by aerosols"
BillyJoe says:
"masks work - I invite you to work with an active Ebola patient and not wear a mask!"
This is a completely different type of virus, with a completely different transmission mechanism. Don't believe me? How about Wikipedia, which is usually a complete joke for anything politicised, but ebola is not, so we can probably trust it.
Wikipedia Ebola page says:
The virus spreads through direct contact with body fluids, such as blood from infected humans or other animals,[1] or from contact with items that have recently been contaminated with infected body fluids.[1] There have been no documented cases, either in nature or under laboratory conditions, of spread through the air between humans or other primates.
CDC and WHO also agree masks are a waste of time!
1. A May 2020 meta-study on pandemic influenza published by the US CDC found that face masks had no effect, neither as personal protective equipment nor as a source control.
Source https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article
2. A WHO review of ten randomized controlled trials of face masks against influenza-like illness, published in September 2019, found no statistically significant benefit.
Source https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/non-pharmaceutical-public-health-measuresfor-mitigating-the-risk-and-impact-of-epidemic-and-pandemic-influenza
3. They also forced a retraction of the very thorough and highly regarded Cochrane review on masks...
Either way, any slight benefit you are likely to see will almost certainly be wiped out by the increased CO2 levels you're forced to breathe, especially if you wear a FFP2 mask "properly", and the highly toxic chemicals and fibres that you're breathing in. All of which either directly reduce your immunity or will certainly harm your health.
BillyJoe says:
"- the mRNA vaccine are not drugs, they are vaccines.
- the mRNA vaccines are not experimental.
- the mRNA vaccines are now the most thoroughly tested vaccines in history."
They bloody well are! The EUA was specifically required because it was experimental. And what do you mean they are not drugs?! Are you saying they have no effect on the body?! Because that's the definition of a drug... I never even used the word "drug" anywhere in my reply anyway.
The most thoroughly tested in history, you say... It's only been out 3 years! It hasn't even passed the required time threshold to measure the long term effects!?! It's also contaminated with endotoxins & residual DNA, has SV40 cancer promoting regions inexplicably left in (Pfizer only) and is so new that they are only just starting to find out that the pseudo-uridine that causes the modRNA to stick around for months (vs standard mRNA which might be days) is producing copy errors that mean that now you're flooding your system with loads of random proteins that will have god knows what effect on the body.
For something that is a completely new delivery meachanism, and is the very definition of a gene therapy, where they had to change the definition of what a vaccine was, and then lied about the gene therapy part so they wouldn't need to test for genotoxicity at all... you're trying to tell me it's the most tested vaccine in history!?! 🤣😂🤣 They didn't even perform the tests they were supposed to on it!! No but seriously, I don't know what planet you're on...
Just Thank you PerceptionofReality. I reread BillyJoe’s talking points and am in disbelief of how many of them are so off base. It is astounding that people still believe the narrative. Masks work , the Covid jab is a vaccine and is safe and effective, MRNA vaccines have been researched for years(yes and found to not work, daa) on and on. The man who calls others clueless is generally the clueless man. We should all pray for BillyJoe.
Yes, Masks work, the Covid vaccine is, by now, maybe the best researched vaccine in the world and it works very well. Neither the data nor simple physics lie. I guess you believe people, too, who said their skin became magnetic after the vaccine?
So you wrote a book about COVID and that makes you an expert?
Ah, the "and you are an expert????" 'argument'.
Again: start by taking a high school level statistics class. Your ignorance is a choice, not a destiny. Don't give yourself up.
https://open.substack.com/pub/alexberenson/p/dr-anthony-fauci-now-admits-the-mrna?r=wgq8&utm_medium=ios
1. Stop reading people who are spreading disinformation
2. This article is so blatantly false and misleading, that it is no testament to your very basic education around vaccines and infectious diseases, that you cannot spot the problems without even searching for them.
Coward. You replied to yourself hoping I would not see the bullshit and blatant lies you wrote. Pathetic, mate. Arseholes like you are not worth the time of day. Libertarian bullshit artists like you who treated the pandemic like a political football and watched 250,000 unvaccinated Americans die of COVID-19 during 2021 because they either delayed or rejected vaccination as a result of the bullshit and lies put out by arseholes like you. You should hang your head in shame, boy.
Errrm, Good reply addressing all of my points? Calling me names just destroys your own argument. 😒
You seem to indicate that anything other than the vax and masks and lockdowns was not an option. They were all options, and the correct options according to decades of medical knowledge.
When you get down to the details, what you and others are doing, is basically telling kids to be seriously injured or die to "save granny", as everyone agrees that kids have essentially zero chance of dying from Covid (well under 1 in a million in most countries) and the average age of covid deaths is not that different to the average age of death overall. I can assure you that even if that were true, there are very few grannies who will be happy with this, never mind the kids or the parents (it didn't stop transmission as it didn't confer mucosal or sterilising immunity, so not even this is true)... To make matters worse, they advocate for multiple jabs, so actually, the vax needs to be many times safer than catching covid, as only one covid infection is likely to be lethal (the first one).
Even in the Pfizer phase 3 trial itself on kids 11-15, there was one girl who suffered horribly, she was paralysed from the waist down, rushed to hospital 9 times, 10-20 siezures in a day, heart problems, vomiting, severe abdominal pain, blood in her urine, neurological problems, and now permanently in a wheelchair with a feeding tube, even after many years and probably permanently. In that trial, only 1131 got the vaccine. You could argue that basically 1 in 1000 could be adversely affected, but I know that's not how statistics work. Let's say instead that she was extremely unlucky and we multiply by ~10, now it's 1 in 10000. That's still horrific! Even in the trial, that family got no help, and there are many many other stories of the same thing happening to kids all over the world. Most being dismissed as caused by literally everything but the vax. Watch this video and tell me the way they were treated was right you hypocrite. And how did the EUA get approved despite this!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC90quQ6oz8
Every medication has side effects, doctors and individuals have to be able to raise their concerns. If they are injured, then they "did the right thing" and should also be helped, but the exact opposite is happening, even after the trial. I honestly can't understand how nobody sees the problem with this. Pfizer got fined billions just a few years ago, the biggest medical fine in history (but still only a slap on the wrist compared to the profits they made). They aren't an ethical company and even if they were, how is questioning something that is so obviously not proven safe yet, a bad thing. Excess deaths, especially in the young, are exploding everywhere and they don't even want to investigate it in many countries. Why would they not want to at least find out that it's not the vax?!? They already know, it's just the propagandised masses that don't.
I was just going to let it lie, but when they're harping on about disease X now and the WHO is going full steam ahead to ensure that next time, there will be no resistance and no control group (ie worldwide mandates). I have to try at least to wake up the naive masses that are dragging us all to a totalitarian future that no-one wants. Enjoy the video. There are hundreds more like it, but good luck actually finding them via the heavily censored Google search...
You are absolutely clueless. You clearly have no background in either medicine or science - which is clear from the absolute bullshit you are spewing here - yet you have no hesitation whatsoever telling recognised experts - who have studied the subject for a decade or more, and now do this as their day job - that they are WRONG! The arrogance of your ignorance is absolutely extraordinary!
Vaccinations saved 15-20 million lives. The mRNA vaccines alone about 5.5 million lives. On the other hand, infections killed 15-20 million. And here you are aiding and abetting the morbidity and mortality caused by the deadly virus. You are nothing but a disgraceful and ignorant antivaxxer. Your comments are full of lying antivax tropes and memes that helped kill 250,000 unvaccinated Americans in 2021. Let that sink in, you disgusting creature.
Wow... Talk about desperate...
I also agree that you need to know experts in the industry. Thankfully I have a relative and several acquaintances, who also do this as their day job. They've told me how it is in private, because they can't in public (this in itself is shocking), and I can verify it all with some quick searches. They actually work on vaccines and they are horrified that their field has been brought into serious disrepute because of covid. The older vaccines at least went though some level of proper testing, these new modRNA ones don't even work in principle, and are frankly dangerous, according to them. In the beginning, maybe some of the panic could have been justified but now, after all we have found out... it's just madness. Just because some vaccines are fine, doesn't make them all fine, how is that difficult to understand.
Their word is all the proof I need, as I trust the experts that have earned my trust, not the pronouncements of some bought and paid for expert, shilling a new book and... well, I don't know what you are... apart from rude, and not worth any more of my time...
Why don't you try addressing some of my points and the lies that I've called you out on. You can't, so let's just leave it at that.
Billy Joe you spout numbers on and on. How do you know 250,000 unvaccinated died? Where did you get the #s and what does unvaccinated mean? The gov was not counting vac until 2 weeks after the last jab. Grateful to be free from people looking like you who think they know everything. No one is listening anymore so keep up your name calling and trying to convince of all of your propaganda. Look at the comments. The likes of you are dying breed. I thank the good Lord for that every day and I say to you keep getting your vaccines and leave the rest of us alone.
"you spout numbers on and on. "
You say that like it's a bad thing. What do you base your decisions on? Gut feelings? Surely statistics are of the utmost importance.
"How do you know 250,000 unvaccinated died?'
Statistics. And I've recently been informed that this figure is wrong. It's actually closer to 300,000.
"what does unvaccinated mean?"
It means you have not had a particular vaccine. What do you think it means?
"The gov was not counting vac until 2 weeks after the last jab"
Funny that. For some reason they count you as vaccinated when you actually have reacted to the vaccine and produced antibodies! But there are also statistics that count from the day you were vaccinated (ONS data in the UK).
"Grateful to be free from people looking like you who think they know everything."
I don't know everything. But you seem to know nothing at all, so I guess that's why it seems that way to you.
"No one is listening anymore"
Please do not presume to speak for everyone. It is true, however, that most of the general population have absorbed the vaccine message, gotten vaccinated, and simply gotten on with their lives. They are not interested in coming here to argue with people who won't listen anyway. So, unfortunately, we are left with a group of hardcore antivaxxers who actually know almost nothing about science or medicine.
I mean, what are your ideas about Relativity Theory and Quantum Field Theory? How would you treat someone with renal failure? You haven't a clue and you wouldn't presume to tell anyone that does know that they are wrong. But, for some reason, you feel perfectly entitled to offer an opinion about vaccines even though you know nothing about virology, epidemiology, or public health.
"all of your propaganda"
Science is not propaganda. Anti-science is propaganda. Antivax is anti-science which is propaganda and that antivax propaganda killed 300,000 unvaccinated Americans in 2021. Think about that. Think about that when you go to sleep at night. There were scientists, public health experts, and health care workers all over the world who worked around the clock for over two years to produce and distribute those vaccines that saved 15-20 million lives - lives that your propaganda just literally threw away. You should hang your head in shame.
"Look at the comments. The likes of you are dying breed."
Funny that you talk about a "dying breed", when those 300,000 who died in 2021 were NOT vaccinated. The adverse comments are made by those who are clearly medically and scientifically illiterate - like you (I'm right, aren't I? You have absolutely no background in either medicine or science) - and simply demonstrates that we have a lot of work to do before the next pandemic.
"I thank the good Lord"
I'm sorry, but I doubt the feeling is mutual. I doubt your Lord would thank you for ignoring a life-saving vaccine that he sent you, let alone for pushing deadly propaganda that killed 300,000 of your fellow Americans in 2021.
"leave the rest of us alone."
You STILL don't seem to realise that pandemics are community infections that require a community responses. Your illogical and unscientific decision not to vaccinate affects not only you but those around you. In the US, there are 9 million people who are immunocompromised and don't respond adequately to the vaccines. They rely on everyone else for protection. Unvaccinated people produce and transmit more virus than vaccinated people. They also use up valuable health resources. In 2022, the unvaccinated were 12 times more likely to be hospitalised and this was when hospitals were running at full capacity.
Wow, Billy Joe got most of this wrong! How about the disallowing of ivermectin? Almost all of your points are false
Thinks a vaccine is poison.
Also thinks a cow deworming paste is curing a viral disease.
Legit.
The default is that all my points are correct unless and until they are refuted. Give it a go tiny tot. As for ivermectin. That drug has been tested in RCTs and was shown to be ineffective for both the prevention and treatment of COVID-19. Period.
Do you have some data to back up your claims? Especially, masking (https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full) and pregnant women trials for the vaccines. I don't believe there were any RTCs on pregnant women. How many children without co morbid conditions died OF covid? I don't believe that the CDC ever released that number. But correct me if I'm wrong. I understand, why people are so passionate in defense of the covid response. It's really hard to admit you have been played. Especially once you inject yourself and maybe your children with a gene therapy product that has never been used in man before. You cannot look yourself in the mirror knowing that you may have shortened your life of the life of your children. Your defense of the vaccines needs to be passionate in order to keep on living.
I would love for Dr. Offit to explain the absolute vs relative risk reduction for the Covid vaccine. That 96% effective # was pulled out of thin air just like the "6th foot social distancing " rule
Covid was the leading cause of death for children in the years 2021 and 2022.
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2023-01-31-covid-19-leading-cause-death-children-and-young-people-us
Billy Joe dude you need to site some references cause all your talking points are just that.
As a matter of interest, the authors of the study you linked to say in their conclusion:
https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full
"The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low adherence with the interventions during the studies hampers drawing firm conclusions. There were additional RCTs during the pandemic related to physical interventions but a relative paucity given the importance of the question of masking and its relative effectiveness and the concomitant measures of mask adherence which would be highly relevant to the measurement of effectiveness, especially in the elderly and in young children.
There is uncertainty about the effects of face masks. The low to moderate certainty of evidence means our confidence in the effect estimate is limited, and that the true effect may be different from the observed estimate of the effect.
There is a need for large, well‐designed RCTs addressing the effectiveness of many of these interventions in multiple settings and populations, as well as the impact of adherence on effectiveness, especially in those most at risk of ARIs."
The author's also wrote a letter drawing the public's attention to the above after their study was misused by social media influencers who, for various financial and political reasons, have aligned themselves with the anti-vaccine industry.
And? There is no evidence that masking, or any other NPIs, in a community setting decreases the transmission of respiratory viruses. Mandating an intervention, especially to children, needs to be based on strong evidence. So yes, if there is other EVIDENCE that masking works then the conclusions would be different. If there was EVIDENCE that the world is flat, then the CONCLUSION that the earth is round would be different.
The Pharmaceutical Industry has gained BILLIONS from the pandemic. what is the Anit-Vax industry? Can you be more specific? I guess you'll need to point me in the direction of some evidence that the ANTI VAX industry is comparable to the Pharmaceutical Industry in financial gains and corruption. Good luck with that and I'm happy to change my mind with the evidence your present. If I'm unable to change my mind with evidence then I'm following dogma, not science.
"And?"
What do you mean by "and?". Your claim was that "Masks Do Not Work", and you provided a link to that I have just shown you does NOT support your claim that "Masks Do Not Work".
"There is no evidence that masking ... decreases the transmission of respiratory viruses"
That is a different claim. But that claim is also false. There is lots of evidence that:
- masks help reduce your risk of transmitting the infection if you are infected.
- masks help reduce the risk of you becoming infected if you are not infected.
- masks reduce the infecting dose and therefore reduce the severity of the illness.
In any case, I am quite certain that even you don't believe your own narrative. Otherwise, I would invite you to spend time in a room with an active Ebola patient without the benefit of a mask. Ebola has a 30% mortality rate.
"Mandating an intervention, especially to children, needs to be based on strong evidence."
I am guessing you have no training in public health. Am I right? Because that is also a false claim. When the risk is death and we are in the middle of a deadly pandemic, and the intervention has no serious adverse effects, then less than strong evidence can certainly be sufficient.
"The Pharmaceutical Industry..."
What has The Pharmaceutical Industry to do with whether or not masks work?
"what is the Anit-Vax industry?"
That was my way of referring to social media influencers who are anti-vaccine. They do this as a business operation, monetising their YouTube channels and their Substacks, and selling supplements. Joe Mercola, for example, is an ordinary GP who is now worth $100 million as a result of selling supplements, with no proven benefit, in place of vaccines and pharmaceuticals.
Did you mean RCTs?
Your question exposes your lack of knowledge about the nature of scientific evidence. Not every question in science is decided with an RCT. It is the golden standard but not the only standard. There are other reliable sources of information that make RCTs either unnecessary or, indeed, unethical.
For example, some of the original trial participants, although not pregnant on entry into the trial, did become pregnant during the trial. And, after the vaccine was rolled out, many women who were unknowingly pregnant were vaccinated; and many who were vaccinated subsequently became pregnant. Post-marketing surveillance of 5.5 billion doses of the mRNA vaccine captured a large group of vaccinated pregnant women and determined all of the following:
If you are pregnant and unvaccinated and test positive for COVID-19 you have a higher risk of:
- admission to hospital
- admission to an intensive care unit
- invasive ventilation (breathing life support).
And your baby has an increased risk of:
- premature birth (before 37 weeks of pregnancy)
- stillbirth
- admission to a hospital newborn care unit.
So, the advice for pregnant women to get vaccinated against COVID-19 was based on this information. To conduct an actual RCT would have taken an enormous amount of time, expense, and effort and resulted in an unacceptable outcome for numerous pregnant women and their babies while the results were pending.
Unfortunately, the content of your reply consists of nothing more than antivax propaganda that has been spread by social media influencers for personal financial gain who have to keep finding more and more outrageous content to satisfy their audiences. None of what you said is backed by any reliable scientific evidence whatsoever.
So happy with these comments that I would like to read more to further my education. Can you supply a citation for the data on post-marketing surveillance? Also, a citation for the data on "If you are pregnant and unvaccinated and test positive for COVID-19 you have a higher risk of..." Thanks a ton!
"Can you supply a citation for the data on post-marketing surveillance?"
Come on, JHM, show me some good faith by doing some work yourself. So far, it is just me doing all the work. I mean, why are you even in the discussion if you don't know about post-marketing surveillance? There is a ton of data and its freely available.
"Also, a citation for the data on "If you are pregnant and unvaccinated and test positive for COVID-19 you have a higher risk of..." Thanks a ton!"
Ironically, there IS a ton of data. So, you really would owe me a ton of thanks. On the other hand, there is no point in referring you to any one paper, or even a dozen or more- which is cherry-picking anyway and no doubt you could play the same game and we'd both just waste a lot of time going back and forth - because the scientific conclusions and recommendations are based on ALL of the evidence not just a few selected papers.
The unskilled layperson has no choice but to rely on the evaluation of all the evidence by recognised experts in the relevant fields of science. That sucks, I know, but I'm guessing you can't remove a gallbladder either, or do root canal work so, no harm in being a complete novice as far as medical science research is concerned if you haven't actually been trained as a medical scientist.
wow, you drank the Kool aid
Projection.
ad hominem
Ad hominem? I missed it. Maybe it wasn't there. Maybe, like many, you misunderstand what an "ad hominem is" as a logical fallacy.
Hint: it's a good idea to quote what you are responding to.,
Here ya go Billy..read all these greater than 3000 references..https://open.substack.com/pub/philharper/p/3665-papers-on-vaccine-problems?r=wgq8&utm_medium=ios
"3000 papers on vaccine problems"
There are problems or risks with every vaccine.
That is NOT the issue.
The issue is: what is the RISK/BENEFIT RATIO.
Here are the facts at the time the vaccine was rolled out:
1) The Infection Mortality Ratio was 0.68%. This means that the SARS-CoV-2 virus killed 6,800 of every 1 million people that it infected.
2) The Mortality Rate for the mRNA vaccine is FAR LESS THAN 1 in a million.
3) The vaccine reduced the risk of severe disease and, therefore, hospitalisation and death by 95%. In other words, it could have potentially saved 95% of those 6800 lives per million people who became infected with the virus.
4) At the time the vaccine was first rolled out, on average 3,500 people were dying of COVID-19 every single day.
Yes, there are problems with the vaccine.
Yes, the vaccine can be improved.
And, yes, the vaccine had an extremely low risk/benefit ratio.
In the US, the vaccine:
1) Prevented 18.5 million hospitalisations
2) Saved 3.2 million lives.
3) Saved 1.15 trillion dollars in medical costs.
The most thoroughly tested in history..are you kidding. They are not vaccines. What vaccine have you had to take up to seven times in 3/years and can still spread and get infected from the virus. The COVID mRNA vaccine was NEVER tested in pregnant women. You have no idea what you are talking about.
" You have no idea what you are talking about."
The IRONY!
The FRIGGIN' IRONY!
This is what this antivaxxer is ignorant about:
No vaccine prevents infection. You have to get infected to stimulate the immune response, and this includes an immune response primed by a vaccine.
The mRNA clearly IS a vaccine. It stimulates an immune response. Therefore, it IS a vaccine. Period. Moreover, it is a very successful vaccine initially reducing severe infection, hospitalisation and death by 95%. It has saved 3 million lives in the US alone.
The mRNA vaccine IS the most thoroughly tested in history on the basis that in Phase IV of the clinical trial (post marketing surveillance after roll out of the vaccine) there is information on about 5.5 billion doses.
There IS information on the outcome of vaccination of women who became pregnant both during the clinical trials and after the vaccine was rolled out. We have information about those who were inadvertently pregnant or who became pregnant despite taking precautions or failing to take precautions after getting vaccinated. This has shown conclusively that it is safer for pregnant women and for their babies if pregnant women are vaccinated than if they are not vaccinated. To be clear, there never was any reason to think this vaccine would present any harm to pregnant women or their babies.
Requiring boosters does not make a vaccine a non-vaccine, it just makes the virus a tricky virus. The vaccines in the childhood Immunisation schedule need 3-5 doses for optimal effect. In general, that is what has been required for the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines in people over 65 years of age or with multiple co-morbidities.
So, Kathy Jelaca-Maxwell, YOU are the one who has no idea what you are talking about. And your arrogance is astounding given that you are telling a paediatric infectious disease specialist with a special interest in vaccines who has himself invented a vaccine (for rotavirus) that he does not know what he is talking about.
Good Heavens!
https://open.substack.com/pub/petermcculloughmd/p/breaking-news-twice-censored-landmark?r=wgq8&utm_medium=ios
Well said
You are a "yes man"?
Hint: that is not a compliment.
OMG Dr. Offit -- you didn't need a whole book to try to explain what happened....it's really quite simple to explain why anti-vaccine activism soared: Many people experienced directly or saw in others just how REAL, how frequent and how terrible vaccine injury is....though the more one's livelihood is privileged by pharma -- the harder it is for them to overcome their brainwashing to recognize the truth of what happened right before their eyes. Stanley Milgram's work is more insightful to all this than yours is.
We don't need you to now "spin" what happened to keep the sinking boat afloat any longer. What we need is for you to open your heart, mind and eyes to the egregious harm you and your peers have facilitated and now spend the rest of your life, trying to undo it.
Yeah and take a look a the measles outbreak in the US that taking place NOW because of ill - informed people like yourself that's spreading lies that vaccines kill people.
Then how did Dr. Stephan Lanka win his court case in the highest court in Germany? Because the measles virus has NEVER been proven to exist. EVER!
Where’s the pathological evidence that the vaccines caused all of these injuries? What is the pathophysiology that links the vaccines to these injuries? Have all other possible causes been ruled out?
Your questions are valid -- but you asking them now, shows how little research on this subject you have actually done (though you could have a valid defense that collusion by industry and government and big tech has made it difficult to find the evidence.)
If you are sincere in wanting these answers look at the evidence presented by Dr. Pierre Kory, Dr Ryan Cole, Dr. Jessica Rose, Dr. Peter McCullough, Dr. Theresa Long, Dr. Tess Lawrie, Dr. John Campbell, Dr. Claire Craig, Dr. Byram Bridle, Debra Conrad PA, Dr. Robert Malone....to name a few.
But also keep in mind....until just recently, when a new drug or medical technology was introduced -- if "coincidentally" following it's use there were observed adverse events -- that drug was ALWAYS presumed GUILTY -- until proven otherwise. But now we have thrown the cautionary principal out the window.
Here's a few links to get you started:
https://www.realnotrare.com/
https://palexander.substack.com/p/us-military-doctor-testifies-she
https://thehighwire.com/ark-videos/these-patients-deserve-to-be-heard-vaers-whistleblower/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAHi3lX3oGM
https://drtrozzi.org/2022/04/27/dr-ryan-cole-how-the-covid-vaccines-cause-cancer/
https://covid19criticalcare.com/senate-testimony/
John Campbell has a PhD in nurse education, he’s not a physician.
Jessica Rose has a PhD and not a physician.
Claire Craig is registered with the GMC but has no license to practice medicine.
The doctors you mention are just a list of the usual antivaccine suspects. I doubt that looking only at antivax propaganda Substacks, websites and youtube videos will provide an independent perspective on the matter.
Never mind then -- my bad. I misinterpreted your first comment. Thought you were curious.
Dr. John Campbell? Ha! He's a glorified nurse. I watched him for years struggling to keep his YouTube site going. Then covid hit and right away he realized they're was big $$$ bucks in spinning and twisting the truth about vaccines, and people like yourself found another kindred spirit in the destruction of mankind for $$$.
See this paper from 2012
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0264410X12005130
& from 2019
https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/9789241516990
Thanks!
Given that the vaccine was being taken at the same time as Covid was still raging, it would be a bit of a challenge for any casual observer to discriminate between effects of vaccine and Covid itself.
But antivaxxers would claim any health incident to a public figure as due to the vaccine without first confirming whether or not the person was even vaccinated. Their minds were made up about which was worst before one of them even existed.
It's possible to look at the case and mortality data, and see that deaths and cases are directly correlating with Covid surges/incidence.
Like in the US for example:
https://ibb.co/RgTy6z3
I wish that some of the anti-vaxx folks would read this and learn the true story of the pandemic and its response
You may as well save your breath. They will never listen. It's a religion. If they get their way and childhood vaccinations become a thing of the past and uncountable children suffer and die of diphtheria, polio, measles (yes children, you can DIE from that), pertussis, etc etc, will they be happy then?
Rich, the Branch Covidian cult lecturing the rest of us about religion.
exactly what do YOU believe happened?
(If i may answer this:)
that also the whole covid-thing was grabbed with both hands and skillfully instrumentalized by the operators (domestic and abroad) of the broader MAGA operation..
(And of course by those just making a good grifting living in and out of the (media-)environment created by it, without necessarily always sharing its political or ideological goals (but at the same time being among the ones being instrumentalized (bioweapons??)
And of course those planning to be part of the mainstream health establishment of the new, great again America to come.
Or combining it all.
But in short: see above..)
Good nice example is "Americas Frontline Doctors". Be very aware which frontline they mean. Hint: it's NOT the one in the battle against covid..
(which, admitted, ís in line with the fact that hardly any if them has worked in those frontlines.)
That they have labcoats saying "America's Frontline Doctors" gives another hint to how planned it is, and also maybe to how gullible they count on their public to be.
(Or are these the labcoats of the big Americas Frontline Doctors-lab or -hospital?)
RB -- would you be willing to read a book?
"The War on Ivermectin" by Pierre Kory It is an incredible book...by a doctor that was clearly a "Frontline doctor in the battle against COVID.
Pierre Kory was the guy who testified before a congressional committee that he took ivermectin and that it was 100% protective against Covid...right before he and his family came down with Covid.
A whole book? Sorry, that's often too much for me..yes Pierre Kory was on that frontline. But it seems he actually was wrong about ivermectin.
It was intensively tested, and the better the test, the less result.
It may have worked a bit, but not as clearly as the vaccines. Most people get well after covid anyway. That must have
So when masses of people refuse to vaccinate (no matter how free) because they can take ivermectin (no matter the hastle and cost and shortage for those really needing it), i can imagine authorities and others see a problem. Because that problem is there.
Metformin otoh is proven to work. I never understand why nobody (incl. authorities btw) started pushing that medicine.
Probably because it works, but not as good as the vaccine. And again, for those actually needing metformin
Although i am curious about what he has to say.
Otoh i remember him just holding on to the fact that he saw what he saw. But that may not have meant what he thinks it meant. According to the tests it didn't mean that. Most people would probably have gotten well anyway, ivermectin or not. There also may have been some placebo-effect. That's not the ivermectin itselve. The effects are tiny in comparson to the vaccines. That's what i understand of it.
So ivermectin great! Until vaccines. Nót as a replacememt for vaccination after vaccines have arrived. The risks of the latter are too low in comparison to covid (except for only myocardatis (not any other AE) with moderna with young men), while they clearly do reduce the overall risk of covid.
With metformin it may have been different. But i never heard of it anymore for some or other reason.
This charlatan couldn’t get one sentence into this drivel without fabrication.
I will be sorry not to see these amusing contributions of your unfettered vitriol in the future, as I assume you’ll stop reading Offit’s “drivel” from now on.
Nope. Truth to power. These people deserve our mockery.
Well, I’ll look forward to mocking you from now on then.
Oh, I’m sorry, you still believe proximal origins.
I’m confident that you’ll make yourself look like a mental midget in the process.
Here are some citations for you to look at. If you need help with any of the big words, let me know:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34147139/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33563978/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32843626/
https://virological.org/t/early-appearance-of-two-distinct-genomic-lineages-of-sars-cov-2-in-different-wuhan-wildlife-markets-suggests-sars-cov-2-has-a-natural-origin/691
Will there be an audiobook at some point please?
Looking forward to reading this, Dr. Offit, and learning more about your experience and front row seat. I'm committed to learning more about how to understand where we are with the pandemic, how to lend advice and take advice, and how to build deeper trust and understanding for us all.
It was on the TWIV podcast I think I heard that the MRNA technology was not untested, but had been used in the development of animal vaccines.
Loads of shit has been tested on animals. We don’t care if old chickens get cancer or autoimmune conditions when they’re sent to the abattoir at a few months old. Doesn’t mean that we feel the same about people. Or at least, I don’t feel the same about people…maybe not everyone prioritises human life like I do.
Amazing. Now “the science” believes that horse paste is safe for human consumption.
Nope..horse paste is great for horse parasites. It doesn't cure humans of Covid. But if you also have a parasitic infection such as intestinal worms, you may feel better. Perhaps you should try some.
Yes, it has been in use for 40 years, and the platform has been used unsuccessfully in the past as an experimental vaccine in prostate cancer IIRC and in other viral infections.
Rubbish. What prostate cancer vaccine?
Well, mRNA vaccines for melanoma, breast cancer, colorectal cancer and other solid tumours, anyway.
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/251213/first-uk-patients-receive-experimental-mrna/amp/
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/mrna-vaccine-treat-pancreatic-cancer
https://molecular-cancer.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12943-023-01807-w
These are experimental. In desperate people whose tumours have progressed on current standard of care, often after many lines of therapy. That is rather different to vaccinating healthy people. You wouldn’t offer a healthy person chemotherapy either, because it is toxic, yet we use it in treating cancer.
We do not know yet if mRNA approaches to cancer have any benefit. They almost certainly have harms. None are approved for use, because we do not have this data. It might be that they are never approved, but even if they are we can in NO WAY extrapolate a putative therapeutic benefit in advanced cancer to prophylactic use in the general population.
Try finding one pre2020? and one where they included an all mortality standard....
Look, stop moving the goal posts and playing the "No True Scotsman" fallacy card, will you?
....The claims were that this tech platform was new (it's clearly not), and that it hasn't been used before in humans before the Covid vaccines (it clearly has).
Of course it is experimental; all drugs are until fully approved and until any and all research on them has ended (which seldom happens). Do you call aspirin "experimental"? I guess you do, because people are still performing research studies on it.
I didn't... The articles you noted were all from post 2020. Find a product that was mRNA in use before 2020... Fully approved... I didn't move the goal posts you did.
the original comment was about how is wasn't a new and unapproved thing... that is what I was getting back to. Have a good day!
Number of deaths quoted are off. It was about 100k Covid deaths in the US by end of May 2020 and 350k during all of 2020. I just checked these numbers on the CDC Wonder website.
Yes, by the beginning of May 2020 the deaths did not number 200,000.
They were 20,000. I assume this is a typo rather than an attempt to mislead readers.
103,776 Covid deaths at the end of May 2020 and 350,831 Covid deaths in all of 2020
Your quoting original numbers vs revised numbers..... can't you keep it straight.
I’m not quoting anything, you dork. I’m agreeing that Offit’s piece is an order of magnitude out….Keep up will you.
I was talking to the person before, sorry, the reply hit the wrong button. :)
No one needs to read non fiction about COVID-19. This author is a serial liar who recommended and continues to recommend you inject yourself with a poison that has proven to not stop you from getting Covid-19 doesn’t stop you from transmitting Covid-19 doesn’t reduce your risk of hospitalization or death in fact it increases both risks. A poison that has killed between 13-17 million people world wide which is 2 times the number killed by the disease itself and most of those deaths were caused by the treatment given in the hospitals. So no one wants to read your lies and distortions of reality. The fact that the National Geographic is behind this is another good reason I stopped subscribing to it after 40+ years. As they have lost their way and no longer report anything but climateism narrative
We are lucky.
Right below, I posted the studies so everyone with ~3rd grade reading skills could see that in fact it YOU who is the liar.
Good news: you just aren't very clever.
Do you actually have a job where you treat people or do you spend your time trying to convince a retired 68 year old woman how smart you are? Never siting references.. I never got the COVID jab and as far as I know never gave COVID to anyone. I guess I’m in the field with many who know nothing at all and am so glad to be there. Yes most of the people got vaccinated in the beginning and then they stopped, most after 2, then the rest after 4 jabs. When they were getting COVID over and over again. I don’t speak for everyone, I just look at the numbers. People are not buying into the narrative anymore. and you speak about people who won’t listen to any narrative but their own. Look in the mirror that is you. And who are you anyway. I am not a hard core antivaxxer. I love how you all think that we are because we don’t think like you. You can post again, but I’m done with this thread. Go try to help some people instead of trying to impress me with just how brilliant you think you are!
Sigh.....
"Never siting references."
References posted below.
You are avoiding the simple fact that all you have done is to post anti-vacc lies....all of which are predicated on folks not reading the words.
No big deal....the anti-vacc lies are only killing people.
You and the likes of you like Fauci, Marks, Hotez, Topol, Ofiit, are why Americans have lost faith in our healthcare system and the medical profession.
There are probably many reasons for the lost in faith.
One key reason is that the internet allows the evil to lie to the ignorant.
Or maybe vice versa. Dude
https://www.cureus.com/articles/203052-covid-19-mrna-vaccines-lessons-learned-from-the-registrational-trials-and-global-vaccination-campaign
So you don't care that once again the anti-vaccs are proven to be liars and frauds?
Thanks.
Did you miss that at the top of the page it clear states that the study was retracted?
Not surprising considering it was clear fraud and how obvious the lies were....I especially liked them lying about their ethical disclosures!
There will a movie about the covid vaccines and the FDA in about 10 years or so just like Purdue Pharma, the FDA and the Opioid crisis. Until the revolving door between Pharma, the CDC, and FDA is shut in the US the American people will still be left to the mercy of doctors trying to make a buck.
https://www.enjuris.com/blog/resources/largest-pharmaceutical-settlements-lawsuits/
Cardinal Health, McKesson, AmerisourceBergen, Johnson & Johnson (2022)
Doctors prescribed opioids for numerous ailments that did not require it, leading to a major addiction crisis. This settlement came to $26 billion, with $23.9 billion of the settlement funding efforts to stem the opioid crisis.
GlaxoSmithKline (2012)
GlaxoSmithKline, LLC pled guilty for unlawfully promoting prescription drugs and failing to report safety information. This settlement came out to $3 billion. The money was used as follows: $2 billion for civil liabilities; $43.1 million for forfeiture; and $956.8 million for criminal fines.
Pfizer (2009)
This settlement came out to $2.3 billion as a result of the false promotion of Bextra Valdecoxib Tablets, Geodon Capsules, Lyrica Pregabalin, and Zyvox. Pfizer faced allegations of paying kickbacks and submitting false claims to the government. The settlement money was used as follows: $1.3 billion for criminal fines and $1 billion for civil settlements for illegal drug promotions.
Johnson & Johnson (2013)
Johnson & Johnson pleaded guilty to misbranding the antipsychotic drug Risperdal. Allegations included off-label marketing and kickbacks to doctors and pharmacists. The settlement reached $2.2 billion – $1.72 billion was used for civil settlements, $419 million was used for criminal fines, and $66 million was used for forfeiture.
Abbott (2012)
In 2012, Abbott pleaded guilty to a criminal misdemeanor for unlawful promotion of the prescription drug Depakote for uses not approved by the FDA. The settlement came to $1.5 billion and was used for: $800 million in civil settlements, $500 million for criminal fines, $198.5 million for forfeiture, and $1.5 million for Virginia Medicaid Fraud Control Unit.
Hi Paul - to have a wider audience, you need an ebook version.
You also need quality control in the comments - the ill-informed antivaxx comments are atrocious and spread deadly disinformation about vaccines that harms public health. For example, I would delete the astoundingly ignorant response of LX below.
I've just started watching the post-Covid season on New Amsterdam and it's the first show that's really including Covid and its many effects as a main part of the story. We in NZ avoided most of the worst of the disease itself, and only had to contend with the vaccine resistance and associated Trump support (bizarre in a country that matters so little to him), so watching this fictional take kind of makes it feel like it *was* fiction. What a privileged position this is to have.
Do you know that 11,000 politicians and elites in New Zeland were exempt from the shots? Bet you didn’t read that in your news media.
Either back up your claims or crawl back under your rock.
You might first try finding out how many politicians we have.
This is from your own government. Why so nasty? Just telling you the facts from your own government. Didn’t get your exemption did you?
I don't see a citation, just another claim.
Back up your claims with some credible evidence, or be rightly ignored.
You have drunk the kool aid. Do you know what the excess death rate was in New Zeland After the first shot? It was 6000% higher than the unvaccinated.
*sigh*
Feel free to provide an actual source for that.
Meanwhile, there's this:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/the-whole-truth/132369176/fact-checking-claims-about-new-zealands-2022-death-rate
I don't know what you've drunk, but it's got to be similar to whatever had Phil claiming we were locked in our homes for two years.
“Escaped the worst of it”. Only if you don’t mind being forced to lock yourself in your house for two years, you xenophobes also completely eliminated any travel or immigration. I see that New Zealand clearly did not escape the wrath of TDS.
There was no locking.
It was for six weeks, not two years. A bit longer in some places, but only six weeks for me.
There was still travel and immigration, just with quarantine/isolation for a couple of weeks
What we didn't have was mass deaths. I don't actually know anyone who died.
So, you know, you're wrong, and massively exaggerating, but I don't suppose you care.
Six weeks to “flatten the curve”? Did the media lie to us? Who is massively exaggerating?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/26/new-zealand-borders-to-stay-closed-until-citizens-are-vaccinated-and-protected
The NZ data confirm that there was only a small surge in cases back in March 2020, which had abated within 6 weeks.
..."Six weeks to flatten the curve"..well, be that the intention or not, it worked!
https://ibb.co/3dNPHCZ
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=earliest..2021-07-06&facet=none&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&Metric=Confirmed+cases&Interval=7-day+rolling+average&Relative+to+Population=true&Color+by+test+positivity=false&country=~NZL
The initial lockdown wasn't to flatten the curve in NZ. It was to get rid of it altogether. (We still had cases, but they were in people arriving from overseas, and were contained.) This page gives you a good idea of how it went for us in terms of community cases. Look how the virus only really finally started hitting the general population in early 2022
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_COVID-19_pandemic_in_New_Zealand_(2020)
Maybe it's that you just don't understand what you're reading. As your article states, _New Zealanders_ could come back to NZ, as long as they went through managed isolation. And this bit:
"Health gains that see us _going about our daily lives pretty much as normal_"
i.e. NOT locked in our houses, but going to work, to school, shopping etc because for most of the time between 2020 and being able to get most of the adult population vaccinated, there were no cases in the community in most of the country.
And even during lockdown, you could leave your house, even for recreational purposes, as long as you stayed local.
Offit declined the most recent booster and then admitted he didn’t get last year’s either. Although in his 70s he said he was concerned about myocarditis.
No, he didn't say he was concerned about myocarditis, that's a lie.
He declined a booster because he'd already had one the previous year, he has hybrid immunity from infection + vaccination, and he isn't in a vulnerable risk group.
“He (Offit) notes that the mRNA vaccines made by the Pfizer/BioNTech collaboration and Moderna also have a risk of causing a heart condition called myocarditis.”
https://www.science.org/content/article/should-i-get-covid-19-booster
Yes, you fool.
But Offit never said he was avoiding a booster because he was concerned about getting myocarditis, did he? ….That was the claim.
Go away, have a couple of strong coffees, and come back when your GCS is in double figures.
That was literally part of his answer explaining why he’s not getting the jab. I can tell that you know you are wrong when you have no response but name-calling, when I provide a direct quote that trashes your absurd nonsense.
Crickets…🦗🦗🦗🦗
Well, I take it you can't back up that claim.....
If you claim it was, then please cite a link to that evidence, namely his direct quote.
Still struggling to get that "direct quote", huh?
I find it ironic that so many of the comments here criticize the development and use of the vaccine. My problem is that we who are most at risk - the elderly (those over 65+ are 30 million people) are barred from getting two or even three vaccines or more, to perhaps prevent infection at all. No infection equals no hospital visits and no deaths. I know that preventing infection is a very limited outcome from vaccination, but any improvement in mortality is worth it unless there is an equal or greater negative impact. You have been one of the most consistent advocates of limiting vaccine shots. Yet you have not come up with any credible description to the downside of more vaccines being delivered. You implicitly address that issue in your article above by referring to annual vaccines and maybe some who shouldn't
get them at all. Defend your position for us please. What is the downside?
DM there is NO EVIDENCE to support this statement you made:
"No infection equals no hospital visits and no deaths"
And the skyrocketing all cause mortality in working age adults -- that happened AFTER the vaccine roll out -- including in Western Australia -- which rolled out the vaccine BEFORE COVID was loose there, contradicts your assertion -- people are going to the hospital and dying from a zillion other things related to clotting issues and the depression of their over-all immunity to everything else (Just consider the increase in RSV, TB, Monkey Pox and other diseases observed AFTER we mass vaccinated!)
If you look at Australia's excess deaths, you can see they closely track deaths from Covid, and do not correlate with their vaccine roll out.
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&facet=none&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&Metric=Excess+mortality+%28%25%29&Interval=Weekly&Relative+to+Population=true&Color+by+test+positivity=false&country=~AUS
According the Australian Gov --- excess deaths DID increase significantly in 2021, (compared to 2020) https://www.abs.gov.au/articles/measuring-australias-excess-mortality-during-covid-19-pandemic-until-first-quarter-2023
The vaccine was rolled out Feb 2021 -- and peak uptake of it was mid to late 2021
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
COVID was not spreading in Australia until 2022 https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/
Do you your own critical thinking.
Yes deaths increased even more after covid was widespread, so it is likely that some interaction of the wild virus with the vaccine is causal to that.
The pertinent thing is to calculate excess deaths by comparing them to the expected number for that period, and you calculate the expected numbers by taking an average of the previous 5 years. That evens out the variability inherent in just comparing it only to the previous year.
For example, if you wish to get an idea what the weather will be like in July 2024, you don’t compare it just to what the weather was like in July 2023.
For the Australian data they use a 5 year average. In 2021, excess all cause mortality was 1.4% above expected. That was the year of the vaccine roll out.
Covid cases started to rise in late 2021 along with the easing of restrictions and the spread of Omicron. Deaths started to go up as a result, and in 2022 they had risen substantially, forcing up the excess mortality to 10.9% higher than expected.
This is all in your own data source.
There is indeed a downside to vaccines, but the benefits hugely outweigh these risks. Downsides include a small risk with the mRNA vaccines for myocarditis (between one in 20,000 to 100,000 shots), but this is usually mild and transient without serious consequences. It has also reduced in incidence since the shots have been spaced out as boosters (the risk is primarily for those getting another shot 3 weeks after the first one).
With the AstraZeneca/J&J vaccines, there is a tiny risk of VITT with clotting issues that in rare cases have cause venous sinus thrombosis with stroke and even death.
Otherwise, the downsides are mainly those seen with just about any other vaccine...limited to very rare anaphylaxis risk, local reactions and short term systemic reactions due to activation of the immune system.
As you point out, the reduction in mortality and reduction in serious acute and chronic (long Covid) consequences of infection are excellent reasons to get vaccinated.
“Excellent reasons to get vaccinated” - obviously you’ll hear no argument from me. Thanks for the description of the downside risks. Their rarity - which you point out can be further reduced by maintaining at least 3 weeks between boosters - certainly also supports multiple boosters every year, at least for the enormous group of seniors at much higher risk than the general population. For some reason, which I find unfathomable, Dr Offit doesn’t see it. He even opposes one booster for some people. Why this resistance? At least it ought to be a matter of personal choice. If - seemingly unlikely - it did prove more dangerous than currently perceived, the individual making the decision is the only one at risk. The CDC and FDA don’t need to “recommend”, only “permit” multiple boosters for at least certain higher risk people. They have made such exceptions for the “immunocompromised”but are strangely unwilling to do it for the also at high risk seniors - an enormously larger group!
CDC guidance is for all those over the age of 2 to get a booster, unless you've recently had Covid in which case wait 3 months. Most other countries recommend boosters for those over the age of 65, or who have vulnerabilities/comorbidities.
But that doesn’t speak to the issue of not permitting MORE THAN ONE booster per year for those over 65.
I see your point. I’d say that more than one booster per year would only be a consideration if one also had vulnerabilities such as immunodeficiency. In those scenarios maintaining immunity year round may be desirable but otherwise getting your booster in the fall to prepare for the usual winter uptick in prevalence may suffice.
People's immunity declines with age. Those of us who are older are (on average) at higher risk as a consequence. The amount of risk will vary and clearly most of the immunocompromised be the most at risk. Your words "may suffice" are key: the elderly should specifically be PERMITTED to get multiple boosters. Now we are not able to.
I understand that virology is a fraudulent “science”.
“Viruses” have NEVER been proven to cause any illness, to be replication competent, to even exist at all! Vaccines are injections of poisons. No live virus, no dead viruses. No pros just cons. Stay as far away from them as possible!
Of course there is no evidence that a virus leaked from a lab because there is NO virus!
Zoonotic spillover does not exist. Contagion does not exist! Billy Joe: you are a brain washed lunatic!