As a retired healthcare provider, I am dumbfounded at how we even got to this place. It’s astounding not only that RFK believes what he believes, but even more infuriating that many in our general public are so science and medically illiterate. Dark days ahead.
But the denialists still went to the hospital when their covid roulette gamble didn't work out. Why would so many medicine deniers still go to the emergency room when they became hypoxic? Deep down, when their lives were at risk, some realized it had all been a lie. Nearly everyone who died from Covid was unvaccinated ...
You clearly have not read Kennedy's book. Offit has purposefully misunderstood how Kennedy used the term. He was referring to terrain theory. And I am not science illiterate. But maybe you are. Many physicians are some of the most poorly educated people when it comes to nutrition in America.
Junior's book also trots out the hoax that Pasteur supposedly recanted on his death bed, one of the stupidest claims in biology. He must have been too stoned in school to notice what microscopes are. A rich moron without sense.
One need not deny one theory in order to support the other. Both can and probably are true at the same time. So, a healthy body which also lives in an environment of clean air and water, good sewage treatment, clean and fresh food, and practices good personal hygiene is undoubtably not going to be subjected to pathogens or, will not be felled by them. Strong immune systems can fight illness much more effectively than someone who is obese, who smokes, or who is desperately poor. "Miasma" is not a well known word in modern English, but surely Offit must know it does not connote "humors" as he said. Its meaning in its Greek roots is roughly "stain" or "pollution." In medieval Italian, this concept led to the term "malaria" or "bad air." It was only in the 17th century that physicians thought disease might originate in effluvia or humors arising out of the ground. Kennedy is not a 17th century thinker. In fact, he moves back and forth from using "miasmic" in its original meaning and "terrain" in his book.
Wikipedia is not a reliable source for almost anything. I forbid my students from using it as a source.
It isn't Wikipedia you should "trust" or "believe", it's the sources and the evidence they provide. If my students cited Wikipedia, I would have them consult the sources Wikipedia provided and cite those directly. (Wikipedia is not dissimilar in reliability to the Encyclopedia Britannica.) Always ask for and expect evidence that withstands rigorous scrutiny.
Your argument is not dissimilar from saying that a heliocentric model can coexist with a geocentric model and that both can probably be true at the same time. We know which of those two is correct. The evidence clearly proves the other is flawed.
I agree that it is the sources and evidence they provide, but for my undergraduate students who were enrolled in my American history survey courses, I did not have the time to explain it in any kind of depth. These kids were, in the case of freshmen, 3 months out of high school where I'm sure Wikipedia was acceptable. I simply banned it with a brief explanation as to why.
I made time to ensure my students, who ranged from fresh out of high school to veteran educators, understood the value and importance of skills, such as being able to find good sources of information, as opposed to rote memorization. The facts they would need to know would change, constantly. The skills to find and apply knowledge wouldn't.
Her argument was that a healthier immune system has a better probable outcome then a less efficient immune system when defending against “germs”. Your heliocentric/geocentric analogy is nonsense here.
You have no immunity to something you've not previously been exposed to. A "healthier immune system" provides the same benefits to someone who receives a vaccination as it does to someone who doesn't. You earn immunity either through surviving an infection or through vaccination. The cost of infection is greater. It's not a matter of opinion, it's what the data supports. "Terrain theory" is pseudoscience, just like geocentrism. (Making the analogy exceptionally accurate.)
OH Shi... you're teacher? You know who lived with clean air and water, good sanitary practices, fresh/ never processed food, and in most cases were scrupulous about personal hygiene? The millions of native americans who were slaughtered by smallpox. Your note suggests that addressing smoking, obesity and poverty is a novel idea for which Kennedy deserves kudos. Which is of course nonsense. Forgive me if I misunderstood the gist of your comment.
I think you misunderstood: I was merely pointing out that both germ and terrain theories are true. You will have a much worse outcome when you come into contact with a pathogen if you have a naive immune system and are living in filth.
Please locate anyplace in any of Kennedy's books where he denies the existence of germs. So far, I have not seen that. But if you have, you should let the rest of us know. Thank you in advance for doing due diligence.
Your watered-down contention is that “MANY physicians are SOME of the most poorly educated people when it comes to nutrition in America” (those are my capital letters). Sure. Nutrition is a valid and exciting field of study these days. But it’s not vaccines OR nutrition. We need ALL of it (plus cleaner air, fewer toxins, etc. etc.) to improve our health and protect ourselves from disease.
Eat, drink, and be merry.Trump may run again and we may elect him so there is perhaps nothing we can do to protect ourselves from our own mindless destruction. Many species have been terminal.(terminated) The world will go on without us, or so the song goes.
There are some out there, especially the likes of Mark Hyman, Peter McCullough, Makary, Oz etc. who pretty much ignore their medical training to go along with conspiracy theories and the Wellness crowd because gee it’s f’ing profitable. And they are undermining true scientific consensus, and standard of medical care and people are believing it. I’m not surprised that the public, who are not trained, are confused.
Indeed. It is extremely disappointing how the lines have become so blurred in the minds of the public (and also in the minds of some scientists and doctors who should know better) as to who exactly are the quacks and science-illiterate ones.
Aldous himself is one of those struggling to tell science from pseudo-science.
I see she hasn't had a license to practice since 2021, so maybe she doesn't even qualify for the role of a medical doctor, science-illiterate or otherwise.
Interesting that he wanted vitamin A treatment for measles in Samoa- you’d think he be supportive of GE technology that has made a rice that is fortified with vitamin A! But turns out RFK is not supportive of that either. It’s just infuriating!! Thank you for your work Dr. Offit!
More selective misuse of scientific info by RFK Jr...Vitamin A supplementation may be beneficial for reducing mеasles severity and risk of complications. Some data suggest that administration of vitamin A to children <2 years of age with meаѕles may be associated with reduced mortality.
I also recall reading about Vit A being given as a "Hail Mary" attempt when a child succumbs to one of the Long-term complications of measles... preventable with MMR vaccination.
Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) is a very rare, but fatal disease of the CNS that results from a measles virus infection.
Noted BUT if the American public & not to same extent also unacceptable for locations within Canada should each have the unquestionably scientifically validated ~ 95% community vaccination for measles & other diseases of public concern there would be no need in the case of treating an infected individual (measles) with the 'hope' including Vit A supplementation 'may' lessen the patients outcome.
Upon survival from the acute infection 🙏 there will be loss of previous immunity for various diseases from natural exposure or vaccination, in addition the risk of certain death should the child development subacute sclerosing panencephalitis 😥, once again almost 100% preventable.
So, Marigold, Vitamins and minerals are nutrients, which can be lacking/ deficient in a person’s diet. Vaccines are not nutrients. Apples are not oranges.
Sadly,SSPE is fatal & RFK Jr was complicit in the deaths of 80 plus children in American Somoa...compounded sadness this is an American territory. 😥JJF 🇨🇦
You need to listen to the H.H.S. hearings. You have been fed propaganda and you believe it. Just like the propaganda that Kennedy is anti-vaccine. You should also read Dr. Syed’s article.
Along with RFK Jr.'s response, Dr. Ah Kahn Syed’s article titled, The Killing Fields of Samoa, completely debunks the false claim that RFK Jr. “caused the measles outbreak in Samoa.”:
Thank the good, gracious Lord that Kennedy was approved.
You should actually pray to the God he extends his grace to save your fellow Americans from the depravity of the occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave & his decrepit band of sycophants. RFK Jr family don't support him yet the skinless Republican Congress and Senate who fear the bully in the White House voted for him 😥
We will see what happens, Keep feeding from the propaganda trough. In the meantime those of us who care are going to get on the bandwagon and MAHA. Who cares if his family doesn’t support him.
He's anti face mask and his favorite hobbies involve rotting animal carcasses. If he's a miasma theorist, one must conclude he's on the side of miasma.
Dr. Offit, once again, you're misrepresenting the facts. You omitted the last portion of the passage you cherry-picked. RFK Jr. didn't advocate for a belief; he used it as an example that one theory can't explain the entirety of infectious disease.
I have both his book and several of yours on my desk. Here's the missing part:
"It seems to me that a mutually respectful, science-based, evidence-based marriage incorporating the best of these two clashing dogmas would best serve public health and humankind."
Dr. Offit, stop spreading misinformation when the truth has been repeatedly presented to you.
Well, If I told you I have video evidence of Dr. Offit saying that you can't make the claim vaccines don't cause autism would it be dishonest? What if I refuse to incude the remainder of his comment that not saying that makes it difficult to refute the claim?
I don't claim that vaccines cause autism. yet, you want lies to serve as truth. youre as bad if not worse than the people you might claim spread false information regarding vaccines and autism.
There is no moral or legal difference between Donald and Junior, they're the same administration, the same policies, the same attack on public health, safety nets, sanity. Junior's lies are more relevant than ever since they're going to be policy, now.
There's no "two clashing dogma's". Or at least the clash comes from one side.
No one says that when vaccinated you don't need to wash your hands or ever eat vegetables or ever do any exercising anymore.
The only thing that happens is the doubting of vaccines, far beyond what they deserve, and far beyond what's rational, moral and sensible, given the evidence available, when one doesn't restrict ones views strictly to "other science", as RFKjr called it during the hearing. (Apparently he doesn't even knów the "mainstream science" about vaccines and autism. Strange for such a specialist, these restrictions, this kind of self-censorship. I mean, nobody prohibits him from entering this information..)
I first thought he only meant with "other science" that Mawson-paper that, lucky for him, happened to have been publisized just in time for this hearing (must have been God's hand, no?)
But now i understand it is much broader.
Fortunately for him, thanks to the Mawson-paper, there was no time for more explanations about this "other science". I guess that also helped him getting confirmed..
(Although it's quite astonishing anyway that somebody apparently not even knówing the main(stream) research in his main field of medical expertise (???) still can be confirmed as a secretary of health.)
He has said over and over and over that vaccines should be studied as one of many other possibilities that are causing chronic illness. There has to be some reason for chronic illness. Why not study vaccines?
More than one thing can be true. This is why even immunized people with immune deficiencies still wear masks for self-protection. A fully immune-competent mother can still get a viral infection with few or NO symptoms, and the virus can infect and damage her fetus. The immunization an infant gets for the same virus does not come close in risk. RFK is willfully ignorant and should be nowhere near government.
In some cases vaccine may be a significant benefit but in others not as much.
In some cases sanitation may be of significant benefit but in others not so much.
In some cases concentrating on weight, nutrition, exercise, taking supplements etc... to improve the immune system may be a huge benefit and actually the best approach to combatting a virus.
It's not my way or the highway.
One can believe that vaccination, better sanitation, better healthcare, a better understanding of diseases being contagious, and better nutrition have all lead to better outcomes and not just vaccination without being a conspiracy theorist or having propaganda attacks against them that misrepresent their views like THIS TRASH.
Your response is reminiscent of the State of Florida's conclusion in its official encouragement of seniors to not receive either the seasonal flu or Covid-19 boosters, but rather promoting, "Staying physically active, minimizing processed foods,
prioritizing vegetables and healthy fats, and spending time outdoors to support necessary vitamin D levels." Now I grant that it has been many years since I was in medical school, and in consideration of the fact that, indeed, everything is not black & white, I am on the record as as one to never disparage recommendations that support a healthy lifestyle. Period. Likewise, I have read nothing here that suggests the singular promotion of vaccines to the exclusion of a healthy lifestyles or sanitation. From the comments I have read, you are the only person to draw these "separation" distinctions. Nevertheless, I cannot think of a single, virulent, deadly virus that will ever respond simply to lifestyle or environmental changes alone. Black and white. It is a foolish, non-sensical recommendation where the very young, the elderly, and the immuno-compromised -despite a healthy diet, exercise, and time in the sun- are at great risk. Mr. Kennedy promises never to touch vaccination, but his pattern is to use the civil courts to drive vaccine manufacturers from the market with arcane demands for clinical trials for vaccines that have been in use for decades, with extraordinary safety profiles. And why? In his testimony before the Senate Finance Committee, he refused to stop his conflict of interest with law firms suing vaccine manufacturers. Sen. Elizabeth Warren said "Kennedy can kill off access to vaccines and make millions of dollars while he does it... [He] can profit off of anti-vaccine lawsuits even if he is confirmed as HHS Secretary." Black and white.
I agree. I also saw this part of RFK jrs testimony. He refused to stop taking a percentage (10%) of winnings in cases that he referred to a law firm suing vaccine manufacturers. He lies about vaccine safety and then convinces people to sue. That generates the bulk of his income. Conflict of interest 101.
I’m reading “Turtles all the Way Down”. Excellent book about the science behind vaccines. Must read for everyone interested in the topic (and it is an important topic). The problem with today is we are all getting sound bites and not really sinking into the issues.
Thanks for sharing, Eddie. Have you read the actual book? When you do, you’ll quickly see which resource is actually backed by the preponderance of evidence.
This “debunk” doesn’t even scratch the surface. It’s as if the doctor who wrote the article didn’t actually understand the points the book is making.
For example, he says “gotcha” when he cites a Gardasil leaflet that purportedly had a 3-arm RCT with a placebo control. (Nice catch… one saline placebo for one childhood vaccine). But if you read the leaflet, you see that even this was not in fact three arm. The saline “placebo” was given in only one of 7 clinical trials, *six of which did not have a placebo control* and the data was amalgamated together. The saline placebo has no statistical power here. This is a big statistical no-no, and to the point of the authors of Turtles, vaccine makers have no good reason for doing inadequate studies like this unless they’re hiding something.
Let me be clear. I think vaccines are a good idea. And I think doctors want their patients to be healthy (of course). Maybe scientists justify inadequate placebo controls because the vaccines are supposed to save lives and they don’t want to scare the public with adverse reactions. It’s not a black and white question. And the book isn’t arguing that vaccines aren’t effective… just that they aren’t proven safe.
To set the ground rules, may I first ask what you define as a valid placebo for testing vaccines/therapeutic products, and what circumstances you think are ethical (or unethical for that matter) for doing studies that do not incorporate inactive placebos?
Please provide an e.g. of what you believe to be a vaccine of "not (so) much benefit"?
In fact, relative to food there is no "beneficial supplement" other than the bottom line of the promoter/manufacture.
Also our immune system for everyone is that which coincides with our age & no supplement, or food group enhanced it but most of not all vaccinations can lessen you likelihood of being hospitalized (increased risk in of being there), post infectious complications or death.
No one is vaccine deficient. People are vit/mineral deficient. The vx "preventable" diseases were well in decline before widespread use of vaccines. Vaccines are antiquated tech. We didn't know about epigenetics, our microbiomes(80% of our immune system resides in our gut)systems biology or quantum biology. These newish sciences are showing us we've been wrong on vaccines.
"Growing evidence supports that the gut microbial community is associated with the development and progression of different infectious and inflammatory diseases." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10083300/
Absolutely not true & without any objective scientific validation, however you are within your rights to believe what you may BUT not at the risk of your vulnerable neighbours... children, immunocompromised individuals & potentially the elderly with less than optimal immunity. JJF R.Ph, B.Sc & CTM 🇨🇦
Vaccines do not contribute to herd immunity. With primary vaccine failure. Secondary vaccine failure and waning, it's impossible. That's a vaccine myth.
No they did not show "measles" in their respiratory tract, that's not how our immune response functions...I am not going to the link no need, if that's what they 'stated' it's wrong. Most likely IgM markers. No person is shedding virus yr's after an infection regardless of the viral origin.
You have Not been lied too by science or qualified health professionals but you have been lied to by on-line fraudsters & if not they sadly do not understand the basics of immunology.
I will state once again believe what you may but don't share your misunderstanding of science with family and friends, you are putting them at risk. They can however read your info from the Huckster's & make their own conclusions.
I can and will share inconvenient truths about vaccines. "Shedding of measles vaccine RNA is not uncommon and vaccine RNA can be detected up to 29 days post MMR" the dogmatic science deniers like yourself are the real threat to human health. Vaccines are antiquated. No one is vaccine deficient. People are vit/mineral deficient. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38823291/
Wrong About Polio: A Review of Suzanne Humphries, MD and Roman Bystrianyk’s “Dissolving Illusions” Part 1 (the long version)
This is a longer version of my post on Friday, November 9th, 2018. It is a lengthy discussion of why Suzanne Humphries, MD and Roman Bystrianyk’s book Dissolving Illusions misrepresents the dangers of polio, one in a series of posts that should comprehensively show the problems with their claims. It covers far more than just polio, but is worthwhile for those interested in the details. — Joel A. Harrison on November 10, 2018
I'm unsure of what you are concluding, based upon one chart showing a loose correlation. Is this correlation consistent for other countries? Does it muster any of the Bradford Hill criteria which might indicate the correlation is a causative one?
There is some common ground to be found here if participants are willing to seek it. Economic development and improvement in water quality and sanitation are responsible for an enormous reduction in burden of infectious diseases. Nutrition, good general health, and innate and natural immunity are all important primary defenses against infectious diseases. Morbidity and mortality of measles and other infectious diseases dropped precipitously in the USA in the 20th century prior to introduction of vaccines. It is also true that vaccines are useful in the mitigation of some infectious diseases, and that the risk/benefit ratio of some vaccines in some populations is questionable. All of the above can be true.
Nobody disputes the huge benefits bestowed by advances in public health such as sanitation and clean water. I am glad to see that you are not a miasmist like RFKjr, but disappointed that you would try and detract from the massive health benefits gained through vaccination, which globally have saved more than 150 million lives over the last 50 years.
"Independent studies suggest that, contrary to dogma, excess infant mortality (not averted infant mortality) is associated with vaccine programme rollouts and maintenance." "I estimate approximately 100 million vaccine-rollout-associated infant deaths 1974-2024 worldwide, with the caveat of concomitant largescale economic transformations" https://correlation-canada.org/opinion-childhood-vaccination-mortality-averted/
Yeah, 200 years ago living conditions were so bad that one in every 5 kids didn’t reach their first birthday, primarily because of infections. Things improved a lot over the next 100 years, but then got stuck. Instead of ten in every thousand kids dying from measles, it was “just” one kid in every thousand dying from it.
But it took vaccines to turn that into zero measles deaths. Altogether in the last 20 years, childhood vaccines have saved around 2 million US kids’ lives. Kids weren’t catching (and dying from) polio, diphtheria, measles, chickenpox, HiB, bacterial meningitis, pertussis, bacterial pneumonia, rotavirus, rubella, mumps any more, until you antivaxers decided to turn back the clock to 1930, and you are just desperate to get it back to 1850 again, aren’t you?
Are you a shill for a baby coffin manufacturer? Sounds like it.
In 1960 in the US, before the vaccine was introduced, there were three to four million cases of measles a year, with an average of 450 deaths a year, most in the malnourished in the Deep South. It was NOT one in a thousand. Few children saw a doctor when they had measles, it was routine and relatively mild. What could a doctor do anyway for a viral disease? 99% of Americans had natural measles by the time they were 18. So what you are saying is that one in a thousand of those with measles cases so serious that the parents took them to the doctor, died of it. It will come back, and then everyone will see that it’s not a disease to fear, but to care for appropriately. It greatly improves immune function for life, and greatly reduces cancer incidence. The patient does need to stay warm in bed, well-hydrated, and take the appropriate two doses of vitamin A 24 hours apart, staying in bed until the fever is gone, and take no fever reducer. Stay quiet at home for a few more weeks.
All of those conditions can be caused by vaccines and many others like diabetes, obesity, cardiovascular disease, etc. None of the vaccines have EVER been tested for carcinogenic, mutagenic or fertility impairment.
The case fatality rate of measles was officially documented at one per thousand. It is true that more cases of measles likely occured each year than officially notified, but then we also know the deaths from measles were under-reported, perhaps by as much as half.
I think it's fair to conclude the true IFR for measles is around 2 per 5000.
Your claim that onky kids from the "Deep South" [who you regard as malnourished] died from measles. Deaths occured in all socioeconomic groups. Deaths in Europe and in the UK also took place accross all groups irrespective of wealth, class and race.
I remain perturbed that you continue to reject a simple and safe intervention (vaccine) which we know cuts the death rate to effectively zero in favour of letting kids get a disease that is associated with a 30% complication rate (pneumonias and pneumonitis, laryngotracheobronchitis, otitis and deafness, encephalitis, and [importantly] immune amnesia).
And you have repeatedly stated in the past that 450 deaths a year are "No big deal". Shame on you.
Most children in the Deep South were not malnourished, but a significant number was. RFK, Sr., started social welfare programs which greatly reduced the problem of malnutrition in the US, which reduced the resistance to fairly mild diseases like measles to that of malnourished children in Africa.
About half the American children who died of measles before the vaccine were malnourished. The others were either immunocompromised to start with, or impaired their immune function by taking a fever reducer like aspirin or by not staying warm in bed and avoiding exposure to cold.
And do put up charts showing how many children in 1960 contracted chicken pox a second time because measles had wiped out their antibodies from a previous case of chicken pox.
Measles reduces immune function for two to six weeks after the fever from measles ends. Measles patients should keep a quiet life inside their homes during that time.
It was 450 deaths in four million cases. Half malnourished. If rich kids died, it was because they took aspirin. Shouldn’t take fever reducers. If you have a socioeconomic chart on deaths, put it up. I don’t think you do.
In 1960 in the US, there were three to four million cases of measles a year, three to four million cases, 99% of American chikdren got measles by 18. Your figure of one death in a thousand cases only alplies to those with unusual complications who went to a doctor. Most did mot because measles was predictable and relatively mild.
Measles infection also can erase the immune memory of previous infections - not only for measles. Without medicine - which is what the denialists are aiming for - it's not a mild infection for populations.
When my older sisters got measles after already having the chickenpox, my youngest sister who hadn't had either got both at the same time. The pediatrician actually recorded her unique case. At no point was the doctor or my mother worried about any of this except for the fact that she had to quarantine while her husband was deployed in Vietnam. None of my sisters has repeated either disease. I came along a decade later and was vaccinated for measles but not for chickenpox.
"There is no known example of a drop in measured infant or child mortality temporally associated with the rollout of a childhood vaccination programme." "I estimate approximately 100 million vaccine-rollout-associated infant deaths 1974-2024 worldwide, with the caveat of concomitant largescale economic transformations. I conclude, overall, that the longstanding industry of infant vaccination programmes is a baseless fraudulent enterprise of exploitation." https://correlation-canada.org/opinion-childhood-vaccination-mortality-averted/
Thank you for the post, Dr Offit. I’ve been explaining to many the misunderstanding about infectious diseases and spread of infection held by RFK Jr — thank you for improving my own understanding of his take. It’s been a remarkable privilege to be a pediatrician, help families understand how infections spread, help others understand how we can all prevent them, and how we work to cure them when the unfortunate happens. I am hopeful we can have some physicians experienced in preventing disease and taking care of children and adults with infections, join HHS. Not sure there are any plans for that but I remain hopeful that savvy, experienced clinicians and good communicators will join leadership roles despite the complexities of the work.
I support RFK for this position because it's clear that the regulatory agencies of the US have been captured by industry interests. They protect corporate interests, not the public. This is not limited to the health care agencies.
IMO RFK is the only nominee for a cabinet position that is NOT someone who is beholden to the industry that they will be regulating.
fElon is orders of magnitude more corrupt than anything he points to. The largest federal contractor. Hiring 19 year olds to hack / reprogram the US Treasury payment systems. Nixon was a saint in comparison.
Your pharma handlers must really be scared if all the grift and payoffs are laid out.
Most Americans with brain cells are aghast at the level of corruption just revealed in the last 8 days .. but TDS and EDS has you focused on the messenger.
You must be mentally challenged or **on the the take**.
Dr. Offit, As a physician who has trained at CHoP and UPenn, it saddens me to see you stoop to this level. You don't have to agree with Secretary Kennedy on anything, but that doesn't justify what you are doing here: misrepresenting him entirely.
You state: "He believes in something called the miasma theory. The miasma theory is a long-abandoned medical theory that holds that diseases are caused by poisonous vapors (i.e., miasmata) that are generated by rotting organic matter, such as trash sitting out on the street. According to the miasmists, diseases aren’t passed from one person to another; rather, they are the product of poor hygiene and sanitation."
That may be your interpretation of the miasma theory, but it isn't what RFK Jr. believes, or states in the passage you allude to from "The Real Anthony Fauci". This is what Kennedy explicitly writes:
"Miasma theory emphasizes fortifying the immune system through nutrition and by reducing exposures to environmental toxins and stresses. Miasma exponents posit that disease occurs when an immune system provides germs an enfeebled target to exploit."
Read that last sentence again. ...disease occurs when an immune system provides GERMS an enfeebled target to exploit
He isn't denying the existence of parasites, bacteria or viruses, i.e. germs. He's very much in line with the scientific orthodoxy. Disease is best prevented by fortifying the immune system so that it can prevent an infection from germs and not solely focussing on the germs themselves.
Moreover, the entire first chapter of his book describes what happened during the first year and a half of the pandemic. The suspicious use of gain of function on corona viruses, the exaggeration of infection rates based on the misuse of PCR testing, the suppression of drugs like HCQ which possessed known antiviral properties. All of this supports Kennedy's position that Covid-19 was caused by the SARS-COV2 virus. A GERM.
What you are doing here is extremely counter-productive. We are both part of the medical establishment. The public has lost faith in us and for good reason. You are destroying our credibility further by resorting to making false claims and ignoring the valid points our new HHS secretary has been making.
Please stop. Can you see that you are undoing the progress you have contributed to over the last two decades? What good will the next medical breakthrough be if nobody will trust it?
As physicians and scientists we should be able to agree that there is an epidemic of chronic diseases, shockingly in children as well. This emerged concomitantly with the expansion of the CDC's immunization schedule. While this doesn't prove a causal relationship, if there were one this is EXACTLY what we would be observing. The public can see this just as clearly as you and I can.
By mocking Mr. Kennedy and dismissing his demand for radical transparency you are undermining your own credibility and, in doing so, the medical orthodoxy as well.
It should be our hope that deep dives into the troves of CDC data will NOT reveal that the scaled up version of our public vaccination program has resulted in more harm than we have acknowledged. But we have do more than just hope. It is incumbent upon us to remain humble and diligent. I fear that your frequent public statements which have often veered from any sense of balance will not age well.
""Miasma theory emphasizes fortifying the immune system through nutrition and by reducing exposures to environmental toxins and stresses. Miasma exponents posit that disease occurs when an immune system provides germs an enfeebled target to exploit.""
I vowed not to engage you again because you are a uneducated, uninformed, dishonest, lying, pharma shill; who hasnt read a single book on a subject he is so passionate on commenting
Here I break that vow for what is hopefully that first and last time on this thread.
I will use the fraudulent and corrupt CDCs own website to challenge your statement
Thanks for another informative post Dr Offit. I cannot believe he was not better questioned during the hearings. I said at the time, just ask him directly, "do you believe AIDS is caused by HIV? Yes, no, or I don't know".
Duesberg has had significant influence in HIV/AIDS discussions. He convinced South Africa's president Thabo Mbeki that AIDS was not caused by a virus. Mbeki's administration withheld antiviral treatment for South Africans resulting in hundreds of thousands of preventable AIDS deaths.
>He convinced South Africa's president Thabo Mbeki that AIDS was not caused by a virus.
Because its NOT.
AIDS in the west is isolated to IV drug users and gays taking recreational drugs like nitric poppers.
If it remained what it was; a gay male disease; it wouldnt garner any funding. So it had to be "spun" as a sexually transmitted disease, tied to.the lie of "HIV" and FALSE positive PCR tests. Where dud we see this last? Cough Convid cough convid
In poor countries AIDs is "wasting disease" from malnourished children in war torn environments.
>Mbeki's administration withheld antiviral treatment for South Africans
As they should.
>resulting in hundreds of thousands of preve
Absolute lie. That was the myth we were fed to keep the grants and "we are world" bullshit money stream rolling in , tugging at peoples hearts Those antiretrovirals were worse than "AIDS"..
Btw AIDS exists (its scronym tells you everything) but HIV does not.
"Among all PEPFAR-supported sites, an average of 17.9 million persons living with HIV received ART each quarter, among whom 11,980 were aged <1 year, and 105,510 were aged 1–4 years during the 2-year analysis period. "
Sure makes me wonder how almost 12,000 children under 1 and over 105,500 under 4 years old are all taking poppers, other drugs, and are gay males.
Okay, I get it. Anything that contradicts your fact- and science-free opinion is fake, fraud, fabrication and outright lying. Good luck with that. Let's hope an infectious virus doesn't pop that altered reality bubble.
I believe the tone of this post is one reason why some people fall for RFK.
It's not sanitation/nutrition OR vaccines that has improved lifespan over the past 150 years-- it's both. Sanitation and 'good air' lowers the chance that germs spread. Nutrition and general wellness gives you a much better shot of surviving Tuberculosis. Making folks choose between sanitation or vaccines allows folks to point a finger back at you for ignoring a real important component of infectious disease.
Totally agree that sanitation came first-- I regularly teach this in the class I teach, "Genomics and Evolution of Infectious Disease." But now that there is sanitation, vaccines save a lot of lives for the remaining diseases that aren't easy to cull with sanitation (particularly the airborne ones, sexually transmitted ones). And where there isn't adequate to good nutrition or sanitation, vaccines continue to save even more lives.
We can discuss tradeoffs, but this comment thread is about the efficacy of vaccines in a post-sanitation world. Nothing in this thread was delegated only to mandatory child vaccines. But many child vaccines are for airborne diseases, like measles, and therefore impossible to use sanitation to prevent (unless we count universal masking or isolation, which are really not feasible longterm especially for children).
I dont give a damn about prevention. I care only about survival.
1) The immune system needs a steady battle to keep it optimally functional. Trying to avoid mild childhood illnesses (that attack the body through its gastro-intestinal FILTER) as a trade off to chronic diseases and developmental disorders from useless vaccines is insane
2) Vaccinated individuals still contract and transmit the very illnesses they were vaccinated against
3) UNvaccinated individuals are the healthiest group bar none. Study after study has proven this.
Health versus Disorder, Disease, and Death: Unvaccinated Persons Are Incommensurably Healthier than Vaccinated
Wow. An antivaccine journal I haven't previously encountered (but then I tend to look at the quality journals, not the open access, pay to play rags). And look! Full of the usual antivaccine suspect authors.
This is clearly where you go when nobody else rates the "reasearch" you produce.
Germ Theory is a Half Truth. Pathogens ARE "a thing." They do indeed cause disease (or rather are one of several causes) under certain conditions. However, it's also true -- and sadly underemphasized in the modern world -- that every healthy living being on earth lives every day in constant contact with pathogens. And of course this has always been true for the entire 6000 years of recorded history. (We don't know much about the previous supposed 294,000 years of H. sapiens history) The immune system is indeed the best defense against pathogens and of course the vaccine industry understands this because their whole program is built upon this fact. Vaccines -- in theory -- are a good thing. People all through history have "vaccinated" themselves -- drinking raw milk and pond water, kids playing in dirt, forgetting to wash hands after using bathroom, etc -- all of these activities cause low levels of pathogens to enter the body which helps educate the immune system -- same principle the modern vaccine makers use. One big difference I see is that with "natural vaccination" (like drinking raw milk), the pathogens enter through the mouth which is the body's first line of natural defense. With commercial vaccinations, these "first lines of defense" in the mouth or nose are bypassed. Lastly, anyone who has read anthropology reports -- Dr. Weston Price, Vilhjalmur Stefansson, Jack Weatherford writing about the Mongols, etc -- knows that Diet / Nutrition does have a significant impact on wellness and thankfully many modern MDs -- like Dr. Ted Naiman, author of the book "The PE Diet" are catching onto this and RFK is plugged into this community, thankfully.
I didn't mention the Weston Price Foundation. I mentioned Dr. Weston Price. Anyway, good people sometimes believe goofy things. Sir Isaac Newton believe in Alchemy and Bible Prophecy, but this does not detract from his contributions to Science. Price's book "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" is a huge contribution to Health Science. He is the one that helped me realize that Germ Theory is only a partial truth. He also helped me understand that Proper Nutrition -- which needs careful definition because there are many different ideas of what constitutes proper nutrition -- does far more for disease prevention than vaccines do.
As a retired healthcare provider, I am dumbfounded at how we even got to this place. It’s astounding not only that RFK believes what he believes, but even more infuriating that many in our general public are so science and medically illiterate. Dark days ahead.
But the denialists still went to the hospital when their covid roulette gamble didn't work out. Why would so many medicine deniers still go to the emergency room when they became hypoxic? Deep down, when their lives were at risk, some realized it had all been a lie. Nearly everyone who died from Covid was unvaccinated ...
In NH our newly elected GOP state house majority leader died at home
Of COVID. He didn’t bother to go to the ED.
You clearly have not read Kennedy's book. Offit has purposefully misunderstood how Kennedy used the term. He was referring to terrain theory. And I am not science illiterate. But maybe you are. Many physicians are some of the most poorly educated people when it comes to nutrition in America.
Junior's book also trots out the hoax that Pasteur supposedly recanted on his death bed, one of the stupidest claims in biology. He must have been too stoned in school to notice what microscopes are. A rich moron without sense.
Maybe instead of smearing, you can offer evidence instead?
Terrain theory is germ theory denialism. If he was referring to it, maybe he should have used those words instead of “Miasma vs. Germ Theory".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germ_theory_denialism
One need not deny one theory in order to support the other. Both can and probably are true at the same time. So, a healthy body which also lives in an environment of clean air and water, good sewage treatment, clean and fresh food, and practices good personal hygiene is undoubtably not going to be subjected to pathogens or, will not be felled by them. Strong immune systems can fight illness much more effectively than someone who is obese, who smokes, or who is desperately poor. "Miasma" is not a well known word in modern English, but surely Offit must know it does not connote "humors" as he said. Its meaning in its Greek roots is roughly "stain" or "pollution." In medieval Italian, this concept led to the term "malaria" or "bad air." It was only in the 17th century that physicians thought disease might originate in effluvia or humors arising out of the ground. Kennedy is not a 17th century thinker. In fact, he moves back and forth from using "miasmic" in its original meaning and "terrain" in his book.
Wikipedia is not a reliable source for almost anything. I forbid my students from using it as a source.
It isn't Wikipedia you should "trust" or "believe", it's the sources and the evidence they provide. If my students cited Wikipedia, I would have them consult the sources Wikipedia provided and cite those directly. (Wikipedia is not dissimilar in reliability to the Encyclopedia Britannica.) Always ask for and expect evidence that withstands rigorous scrutiny.
Your argument is not dissimilar from saying that a heliocentric model can coexist with a geocentric model and that both can probably be true at the same time. We know which of those two is correct. The evidence clearly proves the other is flawed.
I agree that it is the sources and evidence they provide, but for my undergraduate students who were enrolled in my American history survey courses, I did not have the time to explain it in any kind of depth. These kids were, in the case of freshmen, 3 months out of high school where I'm sure Wikipedia was acceptable. I simply banned it with a brief explanation as to why.
I made time to ensure my students, who ranged from fresh out of high school to veteran educators, understood the value and importance of skills, such as being able to find good sources of information, as opposed to rote memorization. The facts they would need to know would change, constantly. The skills to find and apply knowledge wouldn't.
Her argument was that a healthier immune system has a better probable outcome then a less efficient immune system when defending against “germs”. Your heliocentric/geocentric analogy is nonsense here.
You have no immunity to something you've not previously been exposed to. A "healthier immune system" provides the same benefits to someone who receives a vaccination as it does to someone who doesn't. You earn immunity either through surviving an infection or through vaccination. The cost of infection is greater. It's not a matter of opinion, it's what the data supports. "Terrain theory" is pseudoscience, just like geocentrism. (Making the analogy exceptionally accurate.)
OH Shi... you're teacher? You know who lived with clean air and water, good sanitary practices, fresh/ never processed food, and in most cases were scrupulous about personal hygiene? The millions of native americans who were slaughtered by smallpox. Your note suggests that addressing smoking, obesity and poverty is a novel idea for which Kennedy deserves kudos. Which is of course nonsense. Forgive me if I misunderstood the gist of your comment.
I think you misunderstood: I was merely pointing out that both germ and terrain theories are true. You will have a much worse outcome when you come into contact with a pathogen if you have a naive immune system and are living in filth.
Nope. The only legitimate aspect of Terrain theory is what we call “public Health.”
Think about it. When and where did you learn about this? Once you became a vaccine skeptic. From there, you have been drawn into a web of nonsense.
Please don’t respond.
If germs don’t matter, why is having clean water important? How are we to define clean water? Water with minimal bacteria present, or something else?
Kennedy denies the existence of germs, period.
Please locate anyplace in any of Kennedy's books where he denies the existence of germs. So far, I have not seen that. But if you have, you should let the rest of us know. Thank you in advance for doing due diligence.
Your watered-down contention is that “MANY physicians are SOME of the most poorly educated people when it comes to nutrition in America” (those are my capital letters). Sure. Nutrition is a valid and exciting field of study these days. But it’s not vaccines OR nutrition. We need ALL of it (plus cleaner air, fewer toxins, etc. etc.) to improve our health and protect ourselves from disease.
Eat, drink, and be merry.Trump may run again and we may elect him so there is perhaps nothing we can do to protect ourselves from our own mindless destruction. Many species have been terminal.(terminated) The world will go on without us, or so the song goes.
If you believe anything in that book, you are completely scientifically and medically illiterate
Have you read it, as well as checked out the endnotes? It's not about belief, by the way. Belief, seriously?
It's also infuriating how many healthcare providers are medically illiterate.
Science illiterate medical doctors and research scientists in their own words
https://rumble.com/v1pb9bf-in-their-own-words-doctors-are-not-experts-on-vaccines.html
https://rumble.com/v4vlxrz-the-financial-incentive-to-harm-american-children-with-vaccines.html
I can list books written by these many science illiterate medical doctors and research scientists if youd like?
There are some out there, especially the likes of Mark Hyman, Peter McCullough, Makary, Oz etc. who pretty much ignore their medical training to go along with conspiracy theories and the Wellness crowd because gee it’s f’ing profitable. And they are undermining true scientific consensus, and standard of medical care and people are believing it. I’m not surprised that the public, who are not trained, are confused.
Indeed. It is extremely disappointing how the lines have become so blurred in the minds of the public (and also in the minds of some scientists and doctors who should know better) as to who exactly are the quacks and science-illiterate ones.
Aldous himself is one of those struggling to tell science from pseudo-science.
Like Sam Bailey's book? ...Good call!
I see she hasn't had a license to practice since 2021, so maybe she doesn't even qualify for the role of a medical doctor, science-illiterate or otherwise.
Dark Ages ahead...
Interesting that he wanted vitamin A treatment for measles in Samoa- you’d think he be supportive of GE technology that has made a rice that is fortified with vitamin A! But turns out RFK is not supportive of that either. It’s just infuriating!! Thank you for your work Dr. Offit!
More selective misuse of scientific info by RFK Jr...Vitamin A supplementation may be beneficial for reducing mеasles severity and risk of complications. Some data suggest that administration of vitamin A to children <2 years of age with meаѕles may be associated with reduced mortality.
I also recall reading about Vit A being given as a "Hail Mary" attempt when a child succumbs to one of the Long-term complications of measles... preventable with MMR vaccination.
Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) is a very rare, but fatal disease of the CNS that results from a measles virus infection.
"Vitamin A for the Management of Measles in the US, emphasizing recommendations that all US children presenting with measles receive an age-appropriate dose of vitamin A as part of a comprehensive measles management protocol, regardless of nutritional status" https://journals.lww.com/infectdis/Fulltext/2020/07000/Vitamin_A_for_the_Management_of_Measles_in_the.2.aspx
Noted BUT if the American public & not to same extent also unacceptable for locations within Canada should each have the unquestionably scientifically validated ~ 95% community vaccination for measles & other diseases of public concern there would be no need in the case of treating an infected individual (measles) with the 'hope' including Vit A supplementation 'may' lessen the patients outcome.
Upon survival from the acute infection 🙏 there will be loss of previous immunity for various diseases from natural exposure or vaccination, in addition the risk of certain death should the child development subacute sclerosing panencephalitis 😥, once again almost 100% preventable.
No one is vaccine deficient. People are vit/mineral deficient.
So, Marigold, Vitamins and minerals are nutrients, which can be lacking/ deficient in a person’s diet. Vaccines are not nutrients. Apples are not oranges.
Umm, if you're vit/mineral deficient, than you are susceptible to infections. You might remember the line "an apple a day keeps the doctor away."
Way to miss the whole point…
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/measles-and-immune-amnesia-a-closer-look/
Immune amnesia isn't fully understood. https://circleofmamas.com/measles/#MeaslesAmnesia
[S]Bobby is ahead of his time. He could have recommended VitC dosage. But he suggested VitA.[/s]
Sadly,SSPE is fatal & RFK Jr was complicit in the deaths of 80 plus children in American Somoa...compounded sadness this is an American territory. 😥JJF 🇨🇦
You need to listen to the H.H.S. hearings. You have been fed propaganda and you believe it. Just like the propaganda that Kennedy is anti-vaccine. You should also read Dr. Syed’s article.
Along with RFK Jr.'s response, Dr. Ah Kahn Syed’s article titled, The Killing Fields of Samoa, completely debunks the false claim that RFK Jr. “caused the measles outbreak in Samoa.”:
Thank the good, gracious Lord that Kennedy was approved.
You should actually pray to the God he extends his grace to save your fellow Americans from the depravity of the occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave & his decrepit band of sycophants. RFK Jr family don't support him yet the skinless Republican Congress and Senate who fear the bully in the White House voted for him 😥
We will see what happens, Keep feeding from the propaganda trough. In the meantime those of us who care are going to get on the bandwagon and MAHA. Who cares if his family doesn’t support him.
He's anti face mask and his favorite hobbies involve rotting animal carcasses. If he's a miasma theorist, one must conclude he's on the side of miasma.
Very good! Made me chuckle..
Dr. Offit, once again, you're misrepresenting the facts. You omitted the last portion of the passage you cherry-picked. RFK Jr. didn't advocate for a belief; he used it as an example that one theory can't explain the entirety of infectious disease.
I have both his book and several of yours on my desk. Here's the missing part:
"It seems to me that a mutually respectful, science-based, evidence-based marriage incorporating the best of these two clashing dogmas would best serve public health and humankind."
Dr. Offit, stop spreading misinformation when the truth has been repeatedly presented to you.
When you add cow pie to apple pie, you don’t get something that tastes better than apple pie…you get something that tastes like shit.
Well, If I told you I have video evidence of Dr. Offit saying that you can't make the claim vaccines don't cause autism would it be dishonest? What if I refuse to incude the remainder of his comment that not saying that makes it difficult to refute the claim?
I don't claim that vaccines cause autism. yet, you want lies to serve as truth. youre as bad if not worse than the people you might claim spread false information regarding vaccines and autism.
Your first paragraph makes no sense
It does. What is the old addage about "removing all doubt..."
LOL!
Junior is also an HIV AIDS denialist.
Which page of which book are you referring to? That's also false.
Several chapters promote HIV denialism idiocy, the equivalent of flat Earth hoaxes for biology.
This is all moot. RFK Jr. is now head of HHS. I don't support this President but I do support this nominee.
There is no moral or legal difference between Donald and Junior, they're the same administration, the same policies, the same attack on public health, safety nets, sanity. Junior's lies are more relevant than ever since they're going to be policy, now.
That is your opinion. Yet, it never mattered who was in office. Vaccine mandates and pharmaceutical industry liability protections have to go.
Mic drop
There's no "two clashing dogma's". Or at least the clash comes from one side.
No one says that when vaccinated you don't need to wash your hands or ever eat vegetables or ever do any exercising anymore.
The only thing that happens is the doubting of vaccines, far beyond what they deserve, and far beyond what's rational, moral and sensible, given the evidence available, when one doesn't restrict ones views strictly to "other science", as RFKjr called it during the hearing. (Apparently he doesn't even knów the "mainstream science" about vaccines and autism. Strange for such a specialist, these restrictions, this kind of self-censorship. I mean, nobody prohibits him from entering this information..)
I first thought he only meant with "other science" that Mawson-paper that, lucky for him, happened to have been publisized just in time for this hearing (must have been God's hand, no?)
But now i understand it is much broader.
Fortunately for him, thanks to the Mawson-paper, there was no time for more explanations about this "other science". I guess that also helped him getting confirmed..
Well, The fact here is that Dr. Offit leaves out critical information when accusing people of falsehoods.
I have no comments on your inane pronouncements. Dr. Offit is engaging in malinformation because he has been repeatedly educated on this falsehood.
Thank you.
Also, that Mawson paper had quite some issues, i hear..
They all do. That's part of the problem.
Dr Zimmerman, expert witness for gov at nvicc, has said yes he did see vx cause autism in one of his patients. Hannah poling won her autism case at nvicc. If vx can cause theirs autism. Vx can cause anyones autism. No one is vx deficient. People are vit/mineral deficient. Starts at #8. https://sharylattkisson.com/2023/07/dr-andrew-zimmermans-full-affidavit-on-alleged-link-between-vaccines-and-autism-that-u-s-govt-covered-up/
(Although it's quite astonishing anyway that somebody apparently not even knówing the main(stream) research in his main field of medical expertise (???) still can be confirmed as a secretary of health.)
(reversed self censorship, that is..)
Omar just proved to y’all that Offit blatantly cherry picked and completely misrepresented what RFK jr said.
Why are y’all still saying anything other than “holy shit, Offit lied.” Come on.
You’re making it clear how dogmatic y’all are.
An excellent article. As a retired physician, I’m horrified that RFK Jr will likely be confirmed to head a government agency.
Lets audit your financial investments. That will tell us why you are opposed to an RFKjr nomination
What stock is in your portfolio? Manufacturers of iron lungs and baby coffins?
Agree.
The idea that RFK Jr is totally anti vax is 100% progaganda bullshit and you should be embarrased to suggest such a thing.
He has said over and over and over that vaccines should be studied as one of many other possibilities that are causing chronic illness. There has to be some reason for chronic illness. Why not study vaccines?
Genetics, crappy food, pollution are worthy of study by real scientists. Junior is a crappy lawyer and misrepresents basic biology.
https://apnews.com/article/rfk-jr-vaccine-trump-science-autism-9b99621b01f11b7f0bdc81e5a0b82d2b?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR0BJSqoveziuJgUYMbjsrSwag-d277xt9N2OInxi87GJGAVgTSwcOD1uiM_aem_otl5WJgFOm71QQUYFiTuCw
🤡
More than one thing can be true. This is why even immunized people with immune deficiencies still wear masks for self-protection. A fully immune-competent mother can still get a viral infection with few or NO symptoms, and the virus can infect and damage her fetus. The immunization an infant gets for the same virus does not come close in risk. RFK is willfully ignorant and should be nowhere near government.
Everything is not black or white.
Many things can be true.
In some cases vaccine may be a significant benefit but in others not as much.
In some cases sanitation may be of significant benefit but in others not so much.
In some cases concentrating on weight, nutrition, exercise, taking supplements etc... to improve the immune system may be a huge benefit and actually the best approach to combatting a virus.
It's not my way or the highway.
One can believe that vaccination, better sanitation, better healthcare, a better understanding of diseases being contagious, and better nutrition have all lead to better outcomes and not just vaccination without being a conspiracy theorist or having propaganda attacks against them that misrepresent their views like THIS TRASH.
Your response is reminiscent of the State of Florida's conclusion in its official encouragement of seniors to not receive either the seasonal flu or Covid-19 boosters, but rather promoting, "Staying physically active, minimizing processed foods,
prioritizing vegetables and healthy fats, and spending time outdoors to support necessary vitamin D levels." Now I grant that it has been many years since I was in medical school, and in consideration of the fact that, indeed, everything is not black & white, I am on the record as as one to never disparage recommendations that support a healthy lifestyle. Period. Likewise, I have read nothing here that suggests the singular promotion of vaccines to the exclusion of a healthy lifestyles or sanitation. From the comments I have read, you are the only person to draw these "separation" distinctions. Nevertheless, I cannot think of a single, virulent, deadly virus that will ever respond simply to lifestyle or environmental changes alone. Black and white. It is a foolish, non-sensical recommendation where the very young, the elderly, and the immuno-compromised -despite a healthy diet, exercise, and time in the sun- are at great risk. Mr. Kennedy promises never to touch vaccination, but his pattern is to use the civil courts to drive vaccine manufacturers from the market with arcane demands for clinical trials for vaccines that have been in use for decades, with extraordinary safety profiles. And why? In his testimony before the Senate Finance Committee, he refused to stop his conflict of interest with law firms suing vaccine manufacturers. Sen. Elizabeth Warren said "Kennedy can kill off access to vaccines and make millions of dollars while he does it... [He] can profit off of anti-vaccine lawsuits even if he is confirmed as HHS Secretary." Black and white.
I agree. I also saw this part of RFK jrs testimony. He refused to stop taking a percentage (10%) of winnings in cases that he referred to a law firm suing vaccine manufacturers. He lies about vaccine safety and then convinces people to sue. That generates the bulk of his income. Conflict of interest 101.
I’m reading “Turtles all the Way Down”. Excellent book about the science behind vaccines. Must read for everyone interested in the topic (and it is an important topic). The problem with today is we are all getting sound bites and not really sinking into the issues.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/part-1-10-the-grand-debunk-of-the-antivaxxer-book-turtles-all-the-way-down/
Thanks for sharing, Eddie. Have you read the actual book? When you do, you’ll quickly see which resource is actually backed by the preponderance of evidence.
This “debunk” doesn’t even scratch the surface. It’s as if the doctor who wrote the article didn’t actually understand the points the book is making.
For example, he says “gotcha” when he cites a Gardasil leaflet that purportedly had a 3-arm RCT with a placebo control. (Nice catch… one saline placebo for one childhood vaccine). But if you read the leaflet, you see that even this was not in fact three arm. The saline “placebo” was given in only one of 7 clinical trials, *six of which did not have a placebo control* and the data was amalgamated together. The saline placebo has no statistical power here. This is a big statistical no-no, and to the point of the authors of Turtles, vaccine makers have no good reason for doing inadequate studies like this unless they’re hiding something.
Let me be clear. I think vaccines are a good idea. And I think doctors want their patients to be healthy (of course). Maybe scientists justify inadequate placebo controls because the vaccines are supposed to save lives and they don’t want to scare the public with adverse reactions. It’s not a black and white question. And the book isn’t arguing that vaccines aren’t effective… just that they aren’t proven safe.
But read the book for yourself.
Science based medicine is a blog written by bigoted sociopaths. Gorski takes money from industry. Conflicts of interest.
Word salad from a denier.
Great fiction novel!
Have you read it? If so, rebut it. I’ll be waiting.
To set the ground rules, may I first ask what you define as a valid placebo for testing vaccines/therapeutic products, and what circumstances you think are ethical (or unethical for that matter) for doing studies that do not incorporate inactive placebos?
Please provide an e.g. of what you believe to be a vaccine of "not (so) much benefit"?
In fact, relative to food there is no "beneficial supplement" other than the bottom line of the promoter/manufacture.
Also our immune system for everyone is that which coincides with our age & no supplement, or food group enhanced it but most of not all vaccinations can lessen you likelihood of being hospitalized (increased risk in of being there), post infectious complications or death.
No one is vaccine deficient. People are vit/mineral deficient. The vx "preventable" diseases were well in decline before widespread use of vaccines. Vaccines are antiquated tech. We didn't know about epigenetics, our microbiomes(80% of our immune system resides in our gut)systems biology or quantum biology. These newish sciences are showing us we've been wrong on vaccines.
My guess is you would flunk a grade school biology class with the nonsense you are parroting.
"Growing evidence supports that the gut microbial community is associated with the development and progression of different infectious and inflammatory diseases." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10083300/
Absolutely not true & without any objective scientific validation, however you are within your rights to believe what you may BUT not at the risk of your vulnerable neighbours... children, immunocompromised individuals & potentially the elderly with less than optimal immunity. JJF R.Ph, B.Sc & CTM 🇨🇦
Vaccines do not contribute to herd immunity. With primary vaccine failure. Secondary vaccine failure and waning, it's impossible. That's a vaccine myth.
No one is vx deficient. People are vit/mineral deficient. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9900078/
No vaccines stop infection or transmission. Many people never even mount an initial immune response. Vxed have been shown to measles virus in their respiratory tract for up to 800 days after vx. It's the vaxxed that r dangerous to immnocomprimised and the community. We've been lied to. https://jeffereyjaxen.substack.com/p/covid-architect-deborah-birx-blames?publication_id=543984&post_id=158003396&isFreemail=true&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoyNDI4NTc0NSwicG9zdF9pZCI6MTU4MDAzMzk2LCJpYXQiOjE3NDA4NzEyNjgsImV4cCI6MTc0MzQ2MzI2OCwiaXNzIjoicHViLTU0Mzk4NCIsInN1YiI6InBvc3QtcmVhY3Rpb24ifQ.UPCOiw758Fo9cEKVOBs3Kjc_lHStWudIcRh--asUbyg&r=egj01&triedRedirect=true
OMG why I am continuing this thread 🤔
No they did not show "measles" in their respiratory tract, that's not how our immune response functions...I am not going to the link no need, if that's what they 'stated' it's wrong. Most likely IgM markers. No person is shedding virus yr's after an infection regardless of the viral origin.
You have Not been lied too by science or qualified health professionals but you have been lied to by on-line fraudsters & if not they sadly do not understand the basics of immunology.
I will state once again believe what you may but don't share your misunderstanding of science with family and friends, you are putting them at risk. They can however read your info from the Huckster's & make their own conclusions.
I can and will share inconvenient truths about vaccines. "Shedding of measles vaccine RNA is not uncommon and vaccine RNA can be detected up to 29 days post MMR" the dogmatic science deniers like yourself are the real threat to human health. Vaccines are antiquated. No one is vaccine deficient. People are vit/mineral deficient. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38823291/
>Many things can be true.
>In some cases vaccine may be a significant benefit but in others not as much.
>In some cases sanitation may be of significant benefit but in others not so much.
This is provably incorrect. Two things cannot be true here.
**When mortality rates to childhood illnesses have dropped by 95-98% BEFORE vaccines were introduced then it had nothing to do with vaccines**
http://vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
https://dissolvingillusions.com/graphs-images
Dissolving Illusions is embarrassingly stupid.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/wrong-about-polio-a-review-of-suzanne-humphries-md-and-roman-bystrianyks-dissolving-illusions-part-1-the-long-version/
Wrong About Polio: A Review of Suzanne Humphries, MD and Roman Bystrianyk’s “Dissolving Illusions” Part 1 (the long version)
This is a longer version of my post on Friday, November 9th, 2018. It is a lengthy discussion of why Suzanne Humphries, MD and Roman Bystrianyk’s book Dissolving Illusions misrepresents the dangers of polio, one in a series of posts that should comprehensively show the problems with their claims. It covers far more than just polio, but is worthwhile for those interested in the details. — Joel A. Harrison on November 10, 2018
more about Humphries and her promotion of hoaxes: http://americanloons.blogspot.com/2013/11/783-suzanne-humphries.html
Science based medicine is a blog written by industry funded bigoted sociopaths.
word salad from a denier
>Wrong about Polio
http://i.sstatic.net/jC0nl.gif
Yeah nice try ...
I'm unsure of what you are concluding, based upon one chart showing a loose correlation. Is this correlation consistent for other countries? Does it muster any of the Bradford Hill criteria which might indicate the correlation is a causative one?
There is some common ground to be found here if participants are willing to seek it. Economic development and improvement in water quality and sanitation are responsible for an enormous reduction in burden of infectious diseases. Nutrition, good general health, and innate and natural immunity are all important primary defenses against infectious diseases. Morbidity and mortality of measles and other infectious diseases dropped precipitously in the USA in the 20th century prior to introduction of vaccines. It is also true that vaccines are useful in the mitigation of some infectious diseases, and that the risk/benefit ratio of some vaccines in some populations is questionable. All of the above can be true.
Nobody disputes the huge benefits bestowed by advances in public health such as sanitation and clean water. I am glad to see that you are not a miasmist like RFKjr, but disappointed that you would try and detract from the massive health benefits gained through vaccination, which globally have saved more than 150 million lives over the last 50 years.
https://www.who.int/news/item/24-04-2024-global-immunization-efforts-have-saved-at-least-154-million-lives-over-the-past-50-years
"Independent studies suggest that, contrary to dogma, excess infant mortality (not averted infant mortality) is associated with vaccine programme rollouts and maintenance." "I estimate approximately 100 million vaccine-rollout-associated infant deaths 1974-2024 worldwide, with the caveat of concomitant largescale economic transformations" https://correlation-canada.org/opinion-childhood-vaccination-mortality-averted/
>All of the above can be true.
NO IT CANT
**When mortality rates to childhood illnesses have dropped by 95-98% BEFORE vaccines were introduced then it had nothing to do with vaccines**
http://vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
https://dissolvingillusions.com/graphs-images
Yeah, 200 years ago living conditions were so bad that one in every 5 kids didn’t reach their first birthday, primarily because of infections. Things improved a lot over the next 100 years, but then got stuck. Instead of ten in every thousand kids dying from measles, it was “just” one kid in every thousand dying from it.
But it took vaccines to turn that into zero measles deaths. Altogether in the last 20 years, childhood vaccines have saved around 2 million US kids’ lives. Kids weren’t catching (and dying from) polio, diphtheria, measles, chickenpox, HiB, bacterial meningitis, pertussis, bacterial pneumonia, rotavirus, rubella, mumps any more, until you antivaxers decided to turn back the clock to 1930, and you are just desperate to get it back to 1850 again, aren’t you?
Are you a shill for a baby coffin manufacturer? Sounds like it.
In 1960 in the US, before the vaccine was introduced, there were three to four million cases of measles a year, with an average of 450 deaths a year, most in the malnourished in the Deep South. It was NOT one in a thousand. Few children saw a doctor when they had measles, it was routine and relatively mild. What could a doctor do anyway for a viral disease? 99% of Americans had natural measles by the time they were 18. So what you are saying is that one in a thousand of those with measles cases so serious that the parents took them to the doctor, died of it. It will come back, and then everyone will see that it’s not a disease to fear, but to care for appropriately. It greatly improves immune function for life, and greatly reduces cancer incidence. The patient does need to stay warm in bed, well-hydrated, and take the appropriate two doses of vitamin A 24 hours apart, staying in bed until the fever is gone, and take no fever reducer. Stay quiet at home for a few more weeks.
Much better than autism , bowel disease, or cancer.
False equivalence.
None of those conditions is caused by measles vaccine.
All of those conditions can be caused by vaccines and many others like diabetes, obesity, cardiovascular disease, etc. None of the vaccines have EVER been tested for carcinogenic, mutagenic or fertility impairment.
You have always been remunerated for saying so. But no one believes you. But what the hell, right?
The case fatality rate of measles was officially documented at one per thousand. It is true that more cases of measles likely occured each year than officially notified, but then we also know the deaths from measles were under-reported, perhaps by as much as half.
I think it's fair to conclude the true IFR for measles is around 2 per 5000.
Your claim that onky kids from the "Deep South" [who you regard as malnourished] died from measles. Deaths occured in all socioeconomic groups. Deaths in Europe and in the UK also took place accross all groups irrespective of wealth, class and race.
I remain perturbed that you continue to reject a simple and safe intervention (vaccine) which we know cuts the death rate to effectively zero in favour of letting kids get a disease that is associated with a 30% complication rate (pneumonias and pneumonitis, laryngotracheobronchitis, otitis and deafness, encephalitis, and [importantly] immune amnesia).
And you have repeatedly stated in the past that 450 deaths a year are "No big deal". Shame on you.
Most children in the Deep South were not malnourished, but a significant number was. RFK, Sr., started social welfare programs which greatly reduced the problem of malnutrition in the US, which reduced the resistance to fairly mild diseases like measles to that of malnourished children in Africa.
About half the American children who died of measles before the vaccine were malnourished. The others were either immunocompromised to start with, or impaired their immune function by taking a fever reducer like aspirin or by not staying warm in bed and avoiding exposure to cold.
And do put up charts showing how many children in 1960 contracted chicken pox a second time because measles had wiped out their antibodies from a previous case of chicken pox.
Measles reduces immune function for two to six weeks after the fever from measles ends. Measles patients should keep a quiet life inside their homes during that time.
It was 450 deaths in four million cases. Half malnourished. If rich kids died, it was because they took aspirin. Shouldn’t take fever reducers. If you have a socioeconomic chart on deaths, put it up. I don’t think you do.
Parents can choose as they like. Many know that measles is nearly always a harmless disease and prefer that to risking autism etc.
In 1960 in the US, there were three to four million cases of measles a year, three to four million cases, 99% of American chikdren got measles by 18. Your figure of one death in a thousand cases only alplies to those with unusual complications who went to a doctor. Most did mot because measles was predictable and relatively mild.
Measles infection also can erase the immune memory of previous infections - not only for measles. Without medicine - which is what the denialists are aiming for - it's not a mild infection for populations.
Not true. That was only cooked ip a few years ago. Measles does depress immune function, but for two to six weeks, not years.
Think about chickenpox. Did millions of chikdren, even thousands or hundreds, get chickenpox, them meadles, then chickenpox again? No.
When my older sisters got measles after already having the chickenpox, my youngest sister who hadn't had either got both at the same time. The pediatrician actually recorded her unique case. At no point was the doctor or my mother worried about any of this except for the fact that she had to quarantine while her husband was deployed in Vietnam. None of my sisters has repeated either disease. I came along a decade later and was vaccinated for measles but not for chickenpox.
"There is no known example of a drop in measured infant or child mortality temporally associated with the rollout of a childhood vaccination programme." "I estimate approximately 100 million vaccine-rollout-associated infant deaths 1974-2024 worldwide, with the caveat of concomitant largescale economic transformations. I conclude, overall, that the longstanding industry of infant vaccination programmes is a baseless fraudulent enterprise of exploitation." https://correlation-canada.org/opinion-childhood-vaccination-mortality-averted/
Didn’t happen liar.
Thank you SO MUCH for seeing the world the way it actually is.
Sometimes many factors are important and the blind ones are the ones with prevalant view.
Thank you for the post, Dr Offit. I’ve been explaining to many the misunderstanding about infectious diseases and spread of infection held by RFK Jr — thank you for improving my own understanding of his take. It’s been a remarkable privilege to be a pediatrician, help families understand how infections spread, help others understand how we can all prevent them, and how we work to cure them when the unfortunate happens. I am hopeful we can have some physicians experienced in preventing disease and taking care of children and adults with infections, join HHS. Not sure there are any plans for that but I remain hopeful that savvy, experienced clinicians and good communicators will join leadership roles despite the complexities of the work.
I highly recommend “Turtles all the way Down” book about vaccines for clear science.
It's a book of fiction.
I support RFK for this position because it's clear that the regulatory agencies of the US have been captured by industry interests. They protect corporate interests, not the public. This is not limited to the health care agencies.
IMO RFK is the only nominee for a cabinet position that is NOT someone who is beholden to the industry that they will be regulating.
And this is why there are representatives (bought off) arraigned against him.
Like we are learning through DOGE - the federal govt is corrupt. ESPECIALLY the health department. It needs overhaul from an outsider.
That's where the likes of Elon and RFKjr come in ...
fElon is orders of magnitude more corrupt than anything he points to. The largest federal contractor. Hiring 19 year olds to hack / reprogram the US Treasury payment systems. Nixon was a saint in comparison.
Bwahaaaa.
https://youtu.be/xAcvW4GmkLI
https://youtu.be/ZCD6N6moqKg
Your pharma handlers must really be scared if all the grift and payoffs are laid out.
Most Americans with brain cells are aghast at the level of corruption just revealed in the last 8 days .. but TDS and EDS has you focused on the messenger.
You must be mentally challenged or **on the the take**.
I havent yet decided which
When a lawyer doesn't have the facts on their side they make insults.
Fortunately am a Software Engineer not a lawyer.
And about your remark on lack of facts and resorting to insults.
Does that include calling Elon fElon ? or do you make up rules as you go along?
He's a felon and his name is Elon. It's less obnoxious than praising infectious diseases that are dangerous and in some cases lethal.
Dr. Offit, As a physician who has trained at CHoP and UPenn, it saddens me to see you stoop to this level. You don't have to agree with Secretary Kennedy on anything, but that doesn't justify what you are doing here: misrepresenting him entirely.
You state: "He believes in something called the miasma theory. The miasma theory is a long-abandoned medical theory that holds that diseases are caused by poisonous vapors (i.e., miasmata) that are generated by rotting organic matter, such as trash sitting out on the street. According to the miasmists, diseases aren’t passed from one person to another; rather, they are the product of poor hygiene and sanitation."
That may be your interpretation of the miasma theory, but it isn't what RFK Jr. believes, or states in the passage you allude to from "The Real Anthony Fauci". This is what Kennedy explicitly writes:
"Miasma theory emphasizes fortifying the immune system through nutrition and by reducing exposures to environmental toxins and stresses. Miasma exponents posit that disease occurs when an immune system provides germs an enfeebled target to exploit."
Read that last sentence again. ...disease occurs when an immune system provides GERMS an enfeebled target to exploit
He isn't denying the existence of parasites, bacteria or viruses, i.e. germs. He's very much in line with the scientific orthodoxy. Disease is best prevented by fortifying the immune system so that it can prevent an infection from germs and not solely focussing on the germs themselves.
Moreover, the entire first chapter of his book describes what happened during the first year and a half of the pandemic. The suspicious use of gain of function on corona viruses, the exaggeration of infection rates based on the misuse of PCR testing, the suppression of drugs like HCQ which possessed known antiviral properties. All of this supports Kennedy's position that Covid-19 was caused by the SARS-COV2 virus. A GERM.
What you are doing here is extremely counter-productive. We are both part of the medical establishment. The public has lost faith in us and for good reason. You are destroying our credibility further by resorting to making false claims and ignoring the valid points our new HHS secretary has been making.
Please stop. Can you see that you are undoing the progress you have contributed to over the last two decades? What good will the next medical breakthrough be if nobody will trust it?
As physicians and scientists we should be able to agree that there is an epidemic of chronic diseases, shockingly in children as well. This emerged concomitantly with the expansion of the CDC's immunization schedule. While this doesn't prove a causal relationship, if there were one this is EXACTLY what we would be observing. The public can see this just as clearly as you and I can.
By mocking Mr. Kennedy and dismissing his demand for radical transparency you are undermining your own credibility and, in doing so, the medical orthodoxy as well.
It should be our hope that deep dives into the troves of CDC data will NOT reveal that the scaled up version of our public vaccination program has resulted in more harm than we have acknowledged. But we have do more than just hope. It is incumbent upon us to remain humble and diligent. I fear that your frequent public statements which have often veered from any sense of balance will not age well.
""Miasma theory emphasizes fortifying the immune system through nutrition and by reducing exposures to environmental toxins and stresses. Miasma exponents posit that disease occurs when an immune system provides germs an enfeebled target to exploit.""
Except that is NOT what miasma theory means!
Paul Offit is a big pharma puppet as I have said before. What is his fear about researching what are the causes of autism and vaccine toxicities?
https://x.com/VacSafety/status/1887543155249103147
His rotavirus vaccine is in the CDCs children vaccine schedule.
He stands to lose a lot of $$$ and prestige when the truth comes out
No, his rotavaccine is NOT on the schedule.
And he sold the patent rights to it around 20 years ago.
I vowed not to engage you again because you are a uneducated, uninformed, dishonest, lying, pharma shill; who hasnt read a single book on a subject he is so passionate on commenting
Here I break that vow for what is hopefully that first and last time on this thread.
I will use the fraudulent and corrupt CDCs own website to challenge your statement
>No, his rotavaccine is NOT on the schedule.
Gentle readers here is the CDC schedule
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/imz-schedules/child-adolescent-age.html
Here is the specific section on rotatek (RSV5)
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/rotavirus/hcp/index.html
This is CHOP "about" profile section on Paul Offit
https://www.chop.edu/doctors/offit-paul-a
4 paragraphs down;
He is also the co-inventor of the rotavirus vaccine, RotaTeq, recommended for universal use in infants by the CDC
He is a co-inventor of the vaccine, but he sold his rights to the patent over 15 years ago to Merck.
Offit makes no money from it. Nothing.
He made the money when he sold it🤦♀️
Thanks for another informative post Dr Offit. I cannot believe he was not better questioned during the hearings. I said at the time, just ask him directly, "do you believe AIDS is caused by HIV? Yes, no, or I don't know".
"inventing the AIDS virus" by Molecular Biologist Peter Duesberg; is a great read
So is "Science sold out: does HIV really cause AIDS" by Researcher Rebecca Culshaw
"AID Inc" by Jon Rapport rounds out the list
Duesberg has had significant influence in HIV/AIDS discussions. He convinced South Africa's president Thabo Mbeki that AIDS was not caused by a virus. Mbeki's administration withheld antiviral treatment for South Africans resulting in hundreds of thousands of preventable AIDS deaths.
Duesberg has more blood on his hands than RFKjr!
>He convinced South Africa's president Thabo Mbeki that AIDS was not caused by a virus.
Because its NOT.
AIDS in the west is isolated to IV drug users and gays taking recreational drugs like nitric poppers.
If it remained what it was; a gay male disease; it wouldnt garner any funding. So it had to be "spun" as a sexually transmitted disease, tied to.the lie of "HIV" and FALSE positive PCR tests. Where dud we see this last? Cough Convid cough convid
In poor countries AIDs is "wasting disease" from malnourished children in war torn environments.
>Mbeki's administration withheld antiviral treatment for South Africans
As they should.
>resulting in hundreds of thousands of preve
Absolute lie. That was the myth we were fed to keep the grants and "we are world" bullshit money stream rolling in , tugging at peoples hearts Those antiretrovirals were worse than "AIDS"..
Btw AIDS exists (its scronym tells you everything) but HIV does not.
You claim:
"AIDS in the west is isolated to IV drug users and gays taking recreational drugs like nitric poppers.
If it remained what it was; a gay male disease; it wouldnt garner any funding."
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/mm7248a1.htm
From the results:
"Among all PEPFAR-supported sites, an average of 17.9 million persons living with HIV received ART each quarter, among whom 11,980 were aged <1 year, and 105,510 were aged 1–4 years during the 2-year analysis period. "
Sure makes me wonder how almost 12,000 children under 1 and over 105,500 under 4 years old are all taking poppers, other drugs, and are gay males.
>https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/mm7248a1.htm
The CDC is part of that cult of FRAUD. Shame on you.for thinking they are the authority on anything.
>Sure makes me wonder how almost 12,000 children under 1 and over 105,500 under 4 years old are all taking poppers, other drugs, and are gay males.
Yeah its very simple; so simple one would think you would have figured it out by now.
Its called LYING !!!
The same lies were employed through FALSE positive PCR tests to push the narrative of Convid. Literally the same playbook.
Its been 5 years of this. If you havent figured this out by now; you never will
Okay, I get it. Anything that contradicts your fact- and science-free opinion is fake, fraud, fabrication and outright lying. Good luck with that. Let's hope an infectious virus doesn't pop that altered reality bubble.
It’s total garbage.
Ah, I see you are an HIV denialist.
Tell me, do you think that viruses exist?
So you think HIV does not cause AIDS?
Oh dear.
I believe the tone of this post is one reason why some people fall for RFK.
It's not sanitation/nutrition OR vaccines that has improved lifespan over the past 150 years-- it's both. Sanitation and 'good air' lowers the chance that germs spread. Nutrition and general wellness gives you a much better shot of surviving Tuberculosis. Making folks choose between sanitation or vaccines allows folks to point a finger back at you for ignoring a real important component of infectious disease.
>It's not sanitation/nutrition OR vaccines that has improved lifespan over the past 150 years-- it's both.
Incorrect.
**When mortality rates to childhood illnesses have dropped by 95-98% BEFORE vaccines were introduced then it had nothing to do with vaccines**
http://vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
https://dissolvingillusions.com/graphs-images
Totally agree that sanitation came first-- I regularly teach this in the class I teach, "Genomics and Evolution of Infectious Disease." But now that there is sanitation, vaccines save a lot of lives for the remaining diseases that aren't easy to cull with sanitation (particularly the airborne ones, sexually transmitted ones). And where there isn't adequate to good nutrition or sanitation, vaccines continue to save even more lives.
We are talking about MANDATORY childhood vaccinations that are liability shielded
STD vaccines arent childhood vaccines and to my knowledge they are not liability shielded. Adults have a choice - children do not
We can discuss tradeoffs, but this comment thread is about the efficacy of vaccines in a post-sanitation world. Nothing in this thread was delegated only to mandatory child vaccines. But many child vaccines are for airborne diseases, like measles, and therefore impossible to use sanitation to prevent (unless we count universal masking or isolation, which are really not feasible longterm especially for children).
I dont give a damn about prevention. I care only about survival.
1) The immune system needs a steady battle to keep it optimally functional. Trying to avoid mild childhood illnesses (that attack the body through its gastro-intestinal FILTER) as a trade off to chronic diseases and developmental disorders from useless vaccines is insane
2) Vaccinated individuals still contract and transmit the very illnesses they were vaccinated against
3) UNvaccinated individuals are the healthiest group bar none. Study after study has proven this.
Health versus Disorder, Disease, and Death: Unvaccinated Persons Are Incommensurably Healthier than Vaccinated
https://mail.ijvtpr.com/index.php/IJVTPR/article/view/40
https://www.thecontrolgroup.org/gallery
Wow. An antivaccine journal I haven't previously encountered (but then I tend to look at the quality journals, not the open access, pay to play rags). And look! Full of the usual antivaccine suspect authors.
This is clearly where you go when nobody else rates the "reasearch" you produce.
Germ Theory is a Half Truth. Pathogens ARE "a thing." They do indeed cause disease (or rather are one of several causes) under certain conditions. However, it's also true -- and sadly underemphasized in the modern world -- that every healthy living being on earth lives every day in constant contact with pathogens. And of course this has always been true for the entire 6000 years of recorded history. (We don't know much about the previous supposed 294,000 years of H. sapiens history) The immune system is indeed the best defense against pathogens and of course the vaccine industry understands this because their whole program is built upon this fact. Vaccines -- in theory -- are a good thing. People all through history have "vaccinated" themselves -- drinking raw milk and pond water, kids playing in dirt, forgetting to wash hands after using bathroom, etc -- all of these activities cause low levels of pathogens to enter the body which helps educate the immune system -- same principle the modern vaccine makers use. One big difference I see is that with "natural vaccination" (like drinking raw milk), the pathogens enter through the mouth which is the body's first line of natural defense. With commercial vaccinations, these "first lines of defense" in the mouth or nose are bypassed. Lastly, anyone who has read anthropology reports -- Dr. Weston Price, Vilhjalmur Stefansson, Jack Weatherford writing about the Mongols, etc -- knows that Diet / Nutrition does have a significant impact on wellness and thankfully many modern MDs -- like Dr. Ted Naiman, author of the book "The PE Diet" are catching onto this and RFK is plugged into this community, thankfully.
"Weston Price" foundation claims that viruses don't exist. Period. It's like believing the Earth is flat.
I didn't mention the Weston Price Foundation. I mentioned Dr. Weston Price. Anyway, good people sometimes believe goofy things. Sir Isaac Newton believe in Alchemy and Bible Prophecy, but this does not detract from his contributions to Science. Price's book "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" is a huge contribution to Health Science. He is the one that helped me realize that Germ Theory is only a partial truth. He also helped me understand that Proper Nutrition -- which needs careful definition because there are many different ideas of what constitutes proper nutrition -- does far more for disease prevention than vaccines do.