No, it does not make sense. CDC and FDA committed the US government to infinity boosting for covid before any evidence for the strategy was available and they seem determined to continue. No one has any idea what perpetual repetitive injections of the mRNA shots will do to the immune system or to the immune response to covid. Antigenic imprinting and development of immune tolerance are real phenomena that have to be considered as well. The vast majority of Americans are ignoring these CDC and FDA recommendations and they risk generating more vaccine skepticism and contempt for the poor judgment of these agencies.
Offit is saying the evidence to support the strategy is lacking, so it might make sense, it might not.
One needs to weigh benefits against harms; it should boost both humoral and cellular immune responses, and we know the vaccines have a good safety record.
Hypothetical issues such as immune tolerance appear to remain hypothetical without any clear evidence of this happening despite boosting.
We also know that in at least one individual who bizarrely contrived to get 217 Covid vaccines there was no evidence of immunological impairment or IgG subclass switching, and virus specific antibody responses remained enhanced.
The CDC advice may prove to be over protective, but you are correct in that many/most will probably ignore the advice. They have been so saturated with antivaccine misinformation they don’t know who to believe.
However, it's revealing that rather than discussing the science, you now realise you're on the losing side of the argument and wave the "pharma shill" white flag of surrender.
Your mad and single-driven defense of the indefensible.
When people are this passionate (on either side); its tied to emotion/experience or pay.
The callousness with which you dismiss adverse events (some of which include paralysis and death) is all the proof I need that you are paid to be here.
If I sound “passionate”, put that down to experience. I’ve seen more deaths from this virus than I’ve seen from any other infection in my medical career, and almost all (after 2020) have been unnecessary and avoidable through vaccination.
Mike S., why is Offit even suggesting this should be up for discussion at this point (3+ years)? Wasn’t “THE SCIENCE” settled in 2021? It’s too late to question “the science”. Mike S. please shut up and take another booster and support “the science “.
you sound like an antivaxxer, Mike S. Words like these are what cause vaccine hesitancy. why not follow the example of the gentleman from Germany who took 200+ shots?
at the very least, tell everyone how many stupid booster shots you’ve taken, if any.
Thanks for the comment which I agree with. It makes me feel less along in my criticism which seems to me to be lacking elsewhere despite its logic. And there is no reason why the CDC or whoever is qualified can't do the studies that the Dr. would like-that I agree would be good- while at the same time erring on the side of giving more boosters, more certainly saving more lives (the benefits have been well proven) versus hypothetical or possible minor risks.
Some studies suggest there is decrease in IgG1 and increase in IgG4 which leads to tolerance and immune suppression (Dr Jessica Rose on Substack). Dr. Geert Bosche virologist and vaccinologist did not feelit was a good idea to vaccinate into the pandemic. He felt it leads to more mutations and you would always be chasing the virus.
The data contradicted him, however, when it became clear that mutations occur regardless, and lengthy infections in immuno-compromised individuals are phenomenally productive of viable mutations. That is how Omicron came to be, in the absence of immune response.
You did not even need to be a fancy public health guy or virologist to know they have never been able to make vaccines for respiratory diseases. People will be critical of RFK but sorry he called it perfectly well before a vaccine was ready. He even called how people like Fauci and Gates were going to hype the notion that we were trapped until a vaccine would release us back into the wild. What a scam, at least it was so bad that many people woke up to the large lists of manipulations pharma and the regulators have been using for decades.
First, I'd point out that although Covid is mainly respiratory, it is also multisystemic.
...There ARE vaccines against respiratory diseases. As always, they are not 100% effective (nothing is) but they are very effective at preventing infection and serious disease. They include vaccines against viruses like RSV, influenza, and measles (the vaccine is highly effective, and since most kids who die from it are killed by measles pneumonia then I call it a respiratory disease").
Then there are vaccines againt bacteria such as pneumococcus, Haemophilus influenzae, pertussis and diphtheria. The TB vaccine is not effective against infection, but seems to protect against TB meningitis and reduces other consequences of TB.
Isn’t that interesting, after Covid the idea that vaccines prevent disease is out the window, I guess that’s progress. Back in the day vaccines prevented disease and drugs mostly treated disease but sometimes prevented it - you could find it at the WHO and elsewhere.
Now everyone is careful not to say 100% effective and the disclaimer at the end of ads that they come with risks and don’t guarantee protection is there. But it took Covid shots actually offering negative effectiveness for the 100% line to be retired.
So, having been wrong about “no vaccines for respiratory diseases”, you think you can switch topics to vaccines don’t prevent infection/disease.
That deflection tactic won't work either. Vaccines that I’m sure you regarded as vaccines pre-Covid include ones like tetanus (prevents zero infections), pertussis (prevents about 1/3), influenza (40-50%), diphtheria (zero), pneumococcus (50%)…I could go on. They almost all prevent *disease* however.
Covid vaccines prevented around 60-90% of infection during the early pandemic period (alpha/delta), and 30% or so Omicron. The main issue is that this protection is of limited durability, around 6m.
It does durably prevent disease/death however (50-90% effective)
See you have moved from they all prevent disease to they are somewhat effective. But they only stimulate a less than perfect infection from an artificial version of a virus and have all sorts of negative consequences, unvaccinated kids are much healthier in the area of overall chronic conditions (ear infections etc the list is endless). Vaccinated kids are less healthy probably from a compromised immune system from so many artificial stimulations.
Infectious disease aren’t the threat to life that is portrayed, this idea we’re going back to 1900 era mortality if we stop is ridiculous, frankly just another scare tactic that is a hallmark of public health and pharma. If you can’t see public health is completely captured by pharma you’re not looking very hard, or maybe you’re part of it.
Truth be told the immune system is so complex and the lab coats barely understand the tip of the iceberg, look what a screw up COVID was / still is. Had they done absolutely nothing it would have been long gone by now, instead the mass vaccination caused the proliferation of variants because the shots did nothing more than asymptomatic protection for a short period, then the vaccinated have faired worse, all the outcomes reporting by vaxx status disappeared once the reporting was clear the vaxxd were doing worse. We have on going excess mortality and long term disability numbers of working age people are up significantly since the shots and governing bodies are doing everything possible to move on without looking into it. It’s a manmade mess. Great job pharma / public health.
Eventually using vaccines in a mass population wide basis will be held up there along with cigarettes as a massively wrong detour we found ourselves on.
I know this goes against every fibre in your body, that’s fine, it’s a free world isn’t it? You believe what you will, take as many shots as you need to protect yourself and leave it there. It’s pretty clear especially after COVID that there is no social contract aspect to vaccines. The truth is vaccines should be reserved for the sickest of society, allow healthy people to go through infection to create real herd immunity. I know statements like this blow up your brain, but you guys need to start getting your head around these issues.
The Californian department of health immunization branch reported the Disney outbreak with 131 cases. 57 unvaxxd. 25 vaccinated with records. Of remaining 49 cases no documentation of vaxx status was available, but 48 were adults and of those 20 said they were vaxx and the other 28 could not recall but being adults in the USA on balance there is a better chance than not they were when the overall vaxx rate is reported to be 97% of population. So you can make a case that 73 of the 131 were vaxxd.
Anyway you are one of those types that no matter what can’t being yourself to say someone isn’t an anti vaxx no matter what information is available to justify it not being worth the risk taking the shots. Especially when the risk from the disease itself is so low.
The biggest issue you never address is the fact that mortality from measles was almost zero before they even began the vaccination programs. The plumber did more for public health relating to disease mortality than pharma ever did. If we had the chance to do it over again we would take a week with an uncomfortable rash over uncontrolled neurological ticks for life.
Page 85 has the morality rates per 100,000 for measles.
The mentality of the must vaxx crowd, that accept that vaccines do have adverse effects, will say but it’s so rare that it can’t possible be the case for you, and the proofs they call for that would be necessary to conclude they know are almost impossible to obtain especially when there is a Mnt put in your way to work your way through the system. Anyway this sort of mentality is why people like Galileo spent the last years of his life under house arrest.
The must vaxx crowd use the same tactics that big tobacco used for so many years.
One day people will see we went down the wrong track with mass vaccination. Again the toilet did more than vaccines ever did.
They way the overall health of society is going it’s time to give less drugs and vaccines a try. Like when your grandma is totally screwed up and someone new looks into it and she’s on 20 types of prescriptions. They do a reset stop everything and 9 times out of 10 she snaps back. You guys pushing drugs are just like any drug pusher motivated by money.
The fact is that it does mutate and that variants are almost always around - look at flu. the CDC has tried for years to get ahead of the dominant strains with modest success. At some point - probably after studies and much dithering - they decided to offer strong doses to older people. One of the alleged benefits of the mRNA vaccines is that they can be modified more quickly. If that's true it argues for testing for variant and vaccination more frequently to protect against them.
Flu isn't a good comparison. New strains come about by a additional mechanism (reassortment) that's more like a swap meet than what we usually think of as mutation and far more radical in effect. Reassortment randomly combines parts from different flu strains during simultaneous infection, creating entirely new strains. It's also not always clear which strains of flu are going to be important in any given year. Flu travels the world via migrating wild birds. When and where the next spillover will happen and which strains will be involved is seldom clear.
One of the better books to emerge from the pandemic, an excellent companion to Dr. Offit's "Tell Me When It's Over" and David Quammen's "Breathless," is Michael Lewis' "Premonition." It presents a "first responder" perspective on the emergency through the eyes of people who, like the main characters in his book "The Big Short," saw catastrophe coming and tried, with mixed results, to get people to act. Although it is written for a popular audience, it should be required reading for everyone in health care.
It is undeniable that we need more data about SARS-CoV-2, COVID-19, and both natural and vaccine-induced immunity. It is debatable whether we need those data before taking or recommending action. Sensible car owners change the oil regularly based on their vehicle's age and model, regardless of whether it "needs" it and without requiring scientific data about their specific vehicle and driver cohorts. We don't expect scientists and engineers to stop lubrication research; we just don't need to wait for them to publish new results. Sensible body owners get their shots.
Political disinformation (or disorganization, take your pick) led to hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths in the United States, no question, but scientific hesitancy--at a time when immediate and decisive action was needed--put a heavy finger on the scales. "We need more data" had a high cost in human lives.
By all means, let's have longitudinal studies in those four populations. By all means, let's shame the CDC into action. But in the meantime, lack of data seems a weak argument against erring on the side of safety.
Precisely. And I am sure that Dr. Offit has seen these sorts of comments before and he doesn't seem willing or able to respond to them. "scientific hesitancy" is a great phrase to describe it - and it is inexcusable given the number of lives at stake.
I lost three friends to COVID. almost lost another. He recovered but his wife didn't make it. Those are clues.
I got it myself a year ago, and no "cold" (or flu, for that matter) ever felt so bad or hurt so much. That's a clue.
There are broad epidemiological and mortality data: robust data collected independently by many different countries and health organizations, all showing the same trends of excess deaths. Those are clues.
An entire college course in virology, 25 lectures, is freely available online. Even skimming the lectures, you can gain a basic understanding of what viruses are, why and how some viruses cause disease while others don't, and how the body deals with them (or doesn't). Those are great clues, because without them you have no basis for forming an opinion. You can only copy what someone else said.
There are plenty of clues.
"United wishes and good will cannot overcome brute facts," Churchill wrote in his WW 2 memoir. "Truth is incontrovertible. Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it. But there it is.” Those five sentences tell how to determine whether one is facing panic (bring calm, using empathy and education), ignorance (provide real, relatable information) or malice (ignore or counter, depending on the circumstances).
Only politicians (not all, in fairness) and sociopaths are fully immune to facts.
Your anecdotal "evidence" notwithstanding; we now know for a fact that death counts due to CONvid were inflated. Hell even the flu went away for two years.
The medical-pharmaceutical complex is a den of lies. Pharmaceutical manufacturers fund studies, academic institutions and the media
We witnessed attacks on Doctors who refused to tow the narrative. Attacks on decades used, award winning but OUT OF PATENT drugs like HCQ and IVM.
Thats all from 2020 to 2022.
And now thanks to the work of Researchers like Dr Mark Bailey we are learning that virology is a hoax.
Covid has NEVER been isolated. The pictures you see on television are computer models, nothing more
PCR tests are not the full proof diagnostics tests they are held out to be. At high cycle counts they produce overwhelmingly FALSE positives. And since CONvid has NEVER been isolated you are looking at cellular debris not any virus
This is all a replay of the HIV-AIDS drama of the 1980s when three letter health agencies trying desperately to remain relevant concucted a lie about a non existent virus instead of admitting gay males use of nitrite based uppers were destroying their immune systems
And with billions of grant money at stake the medical establishment fell in line
I thought you might not be a troll. My mistake. Nonetheless, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt one last time.
The glaring falsehoods in the abstract of Bailey's "expert edition" PDF foreshadow a combination of misdirection, misinformation, and mischaracterization that dominates the rest. They clearly have no understanding of phylogenetics or how virus research is actually done. To someone with no background knowledge it could all seem quite plausible, but to me it reads like tabloid media: fake scandal and calculated deception to prop up the story.
COVID death counts, based on total numbers of excess deaths (all causes) and the heavy drop in flu infections due to school closures, social distancing, and masks, look to be significantly underestimated in most countries, including the US. Take a good look at the graphs. The "overestimation" myth is just that: a myth.
COVID is the disease, not the virus, so of course it "has never been isolated." The virus is SARS-CoV-2. It has indeed been isolated from live human patients many times in many countries. It was imaged directly in electron micrographs as early as December 2019 from one of the first patients, which is how the "pneumonia of unknown etiology" was identified as a coronavirus, even before the genome was sequenced.
Scientists and competent clinicians do not consider a high-value PCR to be diagnostic of anything other than leftover RNA fragments, no matter what the media (or the Baileys) say, far less a "false positive." A high threshold value of 32 means there was so little in the sample that it had to be doubled 32 times (that's four billion!) before there was enough to detect. Low-threshold (<20) PCR would be strong evidence, but still doesn't prove the presence of replication-competent virus. None of that is news to anyone. The Baileys pretend otherwise, but they must know better.
Positive identification of "live" virus requires a technique such as plaque assay that shows actual cytopathic effect and from which replication-competent virus can be isolated. Yes, isolated. From live samples collected from patients. It's a routine lab technique that has been done many times for SARS-CoV-2, contrary to what the Baileys assert, widely reported from labs across the world.
Virus thus isolated has been used to infect various types of susceptible lab animals and study how it spreads from host to host. This has also been done in many labs in many countries, again contrary to the Baileys' nonsense about "it's all in petri dishes!" Search Google Scholar and you'll find hundreds of papers.
Your HIV-AIDS bit is just... silly. AIDS was around long before "uppers" even existed and kills as many women as men in places where it is still out of control (and "nitrite based uppers" don't exist), like parts of Africa. Chimps die of AIDS caused by HIV's ancestor, Simian Immuno-Virus (SIV). Read "The Chimp and the River" by David Quammen, or the several papers by Worobey et al on the phylogenetics of HIV and SIV published from 2004 to 2016. They're easy to find on Google Scholar if you genuinely want to know.
Nothing you posted changes the conclusion Dr Bailey reached.
Both Doctors have a website and a comments section.
Why don't you post this there and see what they collectively say instead of regurgitating the talking points of your pharma shill handlers!!!
Let's address some of your drivel
>Virus thus isolated has been used to infect various types of susceptible lab animals and study how it spreads from host to host.
This has NEVER been done. Viruses satisfying Kochs postulate have NEVER been isolated. For CONvid, millions of dollars have been offered for definite proof of the virus but has never ben taken up
>and the heavy drop in flu infections due to school closures, social distancing, and masks, look to be significantly underestimated in most countries, including the US.
Let's see. Sars/COVID and the flu, both respiratory illnesses ;however the silly useless social distancing and mask motivating rules reduce flu encounters but not COVID?
Are you retarded?
>COVID is the disease, not the virus, so of course it "has never been isolated." The virus is SARS-CoV-2
Thank you Captain obvious. Moron: the two words are interchangeable. Much like HIV and AIDS.
HIV; ANOTHER non existent virus. Thanks to Peter Duesbergs "Inventing The Aids Virus". Great book and eye opener
>Your HIV-AIDS bit is just... silly. AIDS was around long before "uppers" even existed
Fool, AIDS does exist. It's acronym says it all.
A state of compromised immunity from external factors (diet, environment, drug use etc).
In the case of malnourished African children in war torn countries it's apparent. No food, unclean water, stress etc.
In developed, first countries there was a concerted attempt to hide the fact that the majority of cases were gay males using recreational uppers.
Then fraudulent PCR tests that generate FALSE positives (see a pattern?) were introduced to try and make it an "everyone" problem. So that grant money can flow along with opportunities to sell anti retrovirals.
We saw this play out with remdesivier two years ago. Aka "run death is near"
So it's all a lie...there is no virus, there were no cases, there were no deaths, and vaccines killed millions.
Yep, we've heard all this conspiracist BS meany many times before. Can't you come up with anything vaguely original? Still, it's refreshing to see you haven't bought into the lab engineered bioweapon conspiracy (one assumes you haven't, anyway, if you say the virus is non existent)
...If there were lots of false positive tests, then Covid would be greatly overdiagnosed in those without any infection, making the infection fatality rate far, far lower than it really is.
So I ask again (no deflection this time please), since when has a "cold" ever had a 0.4% fatality rate?
I think those whose responses don't link to the topic of the subthread are all antivaxers...they keep changing tack when challenged, and aavoid being pinned down by the facts. Just see how often it happens.
For instance I responded to Rombios's comment that Covid was just a cold by asking why it should then have such a high fatality rate (0.3-4%, as opposed to the 0.0001% fatality from the common cold).
In response to that, instead of addressing my point and question, Rombios jinked sideways and started talking about false positive PCRs.
He was stupid to do so, because if there are lots of false positive Covid diagnoses (well people who did not have Covid getting misdiagnosed as such) then the measured fatality of Covid would logically go DOWN below what it already is. So false positive test results cannot be an explanation for Covid having a higher reported fatality rate than the common cold.
Now, if you were logical, which you aren't (just like Rombios is not), you could take HIS post as representing a comment from an AI troll because it had little to no connection with the comment it was in response to. Why did you not do so? Why accuse me, and not him? Clearly by your own definition, his was the AI generated response, and not mine.
I think those in the medical field take boosters because they are familiar with the facts and evidence that demonstrates the benefits of vaccination in averting serious disease and death, as well as greatly reducing the risks of long Covid.
That's common sense, and not "living in fear", no more than someone buckling up a seat belt when they drive a car is "living in fear"
You are right that we await better data. Had you all not been so keen to embrace the jabs, and waited for better data and independent analyses, you might have decided that the jabs should not have even been approved: https://okaythennews.substack.com/p/science-summary-covid-19-vaccines
Dear Monday Mording QB, we were losing at the heights 1000's of people per day including a good friend of mine who refused "the Jab" his brother who got "the jab" survived. This was the norm in early covid. My hospital ICU was over run and I live in a Rich Area with 3 large hospitals all within 10 miles from me. The Vast majority cloggin up the ICU's were non-vaccinated! We Experiment EVERYDAY on ourselves and other people, It is Unavoidable. Sometimes you cant just sit on the sideline and hope other people are Brave while you cower down in your Idealist bubble. Thank you to all the true heroes, the people who volunteered to test the Vaccines!
Cower? I wouldn't call standing by our principles and being persecuted for it - for nothing - cowering. I 'bravely' fought off COVID without any help from the jabs and easily won. I think if anyone cowered it were the people that complied with all the directives and rushed out to get the jab.
Cycle threshold used to detect covid was 45 initially. Kari Mullis never felt PCR should be used to diagnose disease, the presence of RNA particles. He passed away 8/2019 before pandemic. You should read his autobiography. Incredible scientist.
You "fought off" and easily won. But the evidence on the efficacy of the vaccine is clear. That isn't disproven by your personal experience. Dr. Offit doesn't 't dispute that people should get vaccinated. His reticence is to give boosters. On what grounds he refuses to explain.
This isn’t the “latest” scientific research; it’s a revisionist viewpoint of the available vaccine science by antivaxers, who are looking for any reason they can to reject the current science.
It’s ok to question the available science however, but what isn’t good optics is rejecting the answers one gets to one’s questions on the basis of flimsy, flawed reasoning.
You would have to have an IQ below room temperature to look at that cooked data showing most deaths were the elderly and immuno compromised (flu season) to reach that retarded conclusion that the jab was the safe bet over COD liver oil, rest and sunlight
In summary, the “science” always knew that boostering every 3 months is required to maintain antibody levels, and once you’ve had the disease, unless you’re immune compromised there is no need for the vaccine. Remember, at the time these tyrants were saying “screw your freedom”. Some of the Socialist trolls here still adhere to the Covid orthodoxy.
If you’re infected with a pathogen that causes IgG antibodies to be formed, which can take 7-14 days to reach peak levels, the antibodies only remain as long as the pathogen remains, once the pathogen has been cleared sufficiently the number of IgG antibodies starts to decrease with a half life of 21 days. At some point the presence of antibodies will fall below a detectable level.
Don’t forget that antibodies are not immune cells but are proteins produced by B cells. Some of the B cells and T cells become memory cells. If at some point in the future you are infected with the same pathogen then the memory cells are able to restart the antibody production within 3-5 days instead of the 7-14 days for the original infection.
If you have a vaccination, the first dose will trigger the same response as the pathogen does. It has a similar antibody production/reduction profile 7-14 days to peak followed by a reduction once the injected pathogen is cleared with a half life of 21 days. This leaves behind some memory T and B cells.
If you have a second booster vaccination, then the process is repeated but with a peak being reached in around 5 days, however, this time there are more memory cells present, those from the first dose plus those from the second dose.
If you have a third booster vaccination then the same pattern as for the second dose occurs. This time there are three lots of memory cells.
If you are subsequently infected then the immune response will still take 3-5 days to peak, but there are more memory cells available.
Someone may correct me, but I have a recollection that multiple exposure to the same pathogen increases the specificity of the antibodies produced, or I may have made that up!
Here in the U.K. one of the first childhood vaccines, Diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis (whooping cough), polio, Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) and hepatitis B, is given at 8 weeks, 12 weeks and 16 weeks. Further vaccines and boosters are administered over the next 16 years with varying intervals. Five vaccinations against Tetanus toxin give a lifetime’s protection, but a booster will still be administered prophylactically if the person has a tetanus prone wound.
No vaccine by itself stops an individual from being infected.
If you have B cells and T cells from your vaccination, then why a booster every 6 months? For us (almost everybody) that has had COVID, we’re good on memory cells.
Memory T cells can induce protection against clinically significant disease, and so this immunity is durable, but to gain help in protection from infection one needs repeated boosting since neutralising antibody levels drop off by 6 months.
Why does an infant need the same vaccination three times in two months at four week intervals? It’s to maximise the immune response by increasing the number of memory cells.
Some of your memory cells obtained after infection may not produce neutralising antibodies, but against the other proteins of the virus that aren’t necessary for entry into host cells. Which is why the vaccines specifically target the spike protein as these are the proteins that elicit entry into the cell via ACE2.
If you want a better explanation then I’d recommend watching both Vincent Racianello’s virology lectures and Brianne Barker’s immunology lectures on YouTube, these are recordings of their lectures given to undergraduates at their respective universities.
And just to add...those who need boosting are those with suboptimal immune responses...the immune deficient, those with immunosuppression and with immunosenescence.
Their B and T cell responses are subpar, and they cannot rely on natural infection to afford them any clinically relevant protection.
still spreading vaccine hesitancy, Mike? People were told to take these shots or lose their jobs. This was the choice millions of people faced. Why should you argue the nuances of natural immunity? You shouldn’t have the luxury of arguments. you should take every single jab the CDC recommends. I think you need a jab everyday. Everyday.
My question was somewhat rhetorical, as I am aware of the differences between infant, young child, adolescent and adult immune systems.
With neonates having practically zero immune response and dependent on mums antibodies passed through both placenta and breast milk, which is why in pregnancy vaccinations against pertussis are offered in the third trimester.
Yes, sometimes it requires multiple vaccine injections to be effective. Tell me, how many mRNA Covid boosters would be required to achieve durable immunity?
Using other U.K. vaccines as the yardstick with a lot of guesswork
Tetanus lifetime immune response after five vaccinations over a period of time although for tetanus prone wounds a prophylactic vaccination would be administered in A&E or if the person was unclear of how many vaccinations they’d had.
By the time a child is 14 they have received
5 tetanus
5 diphtheria
5 polio
4 pertussis
4 Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib)
3 Hepatitis B
3 Meningococcal group B
2 Rotavirus
2 Pneumococcal
2 MMR
1 HPV
1 Meningococcal groups A, C, W and Y
Influenza is an annual event, as this varies dependent on the current virus(es) in circulation.
As Measles, Rubella, pertussis and diphtheria are all respiratory infections and young children are dependent on their innate immune system as their adaptive system is immature it would seem that 3 to 5 vaccinations against COVID 19 may be sufficient for most people. The proviso being that the spike protein maintains a number of epitopes between strains, primarily the ACE2 antigen.
That’s a lot of words to say “ I don’t know. In fact nobody does, which is why they keep recommending them every 6 months” Which health authority has published a maximum 3-5 vaccine recommendation?
I had Covid 3/20. Confirmed antibodies and T cell function (T Detect 2 years after illness). There was no easy way to get T cell function checked. Had Covid once. In the olde age group. Exposed constantly to Covid. And kids never needed the vax Much made little sense in response to this. And heaven forbid you try to discuss early treatment
again, nonsense on this subject. The CDC hasn't said that having the disease makes it unnecessary to get vaccinated - just not as soon. and the "science"didn't indicate that a vaccine was required every 3 months. If it did, they'd be recommending it now - at least to avoid serious illness - but they're not. I wish they would at least for older people like my wife and myself. I am still waiting to hear from Dr. Offitt the risk/benefit evaluation that he is doing to recommend against boosters. Knowing what he THINKS are the risks and what he thinks is the probability of those risks being accurate - and widespread enough -to outoutweigh the benefits would be nice.
I know reading comprehension is hard for you, so let me quote.
“ People aged 12 years and older who got COVID-19 vaccines before September 12, 2023, should get 1 updated Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, or Novavax COVID-19 vaccine.”
Glad Mike took care of most of this. The CDC report doesn't say anything about not getting vaxxed after getting COVID. On the contrary, read down and you will see explicitly that they say one should but probably not in the next three months.
Wow, sharp as a tack. “The CDC report doesn’t say anything about not getting vaxxed after getting COVID.” Then your very next sentence proceeds to tell us that you already found where it explicitly addresses this.
By now we see that being up to date with vaccination is better than not being vaccinated or being under vaccinated. The real issue, which the CDC does not seem concerned about, is the many millions of people disabled by symptoms and or damage even 12 months or more after infection, and even when that infection was mild, including children. It’s difficult to understand reducing precautions in this environment.
So, your argument would be that there haven't been 1.2 million Covid deaths, but only 800,000? How does that make a difference? Does it absolve Covid as their cause of death? ...Of course not.
Are you taking the Stalin viewpoint that one death is a tragedy, one million deaths are just a statistic?
In fact despite errors and instances as you point out where deaths have been misclassifiedthere has been serious UNDERcounting of deaths. Most scientists indicate that Covid death reports represent *underestimates* because they failed to capture Covid deaths that were misclassified to other causes of death.
"In Cape Girardeau County, Missouri, coroner Wavis Jordan said his office “doesn’t do COVID deaths.” Jordan does not investigate deaths himself. He requires families to provide proof of a positive coronavirus test before including it on a death certificate.
In 2021, he hasn’t pronounced a single person dead from COVID-19 in the 80,000-person county."
Your argument is void. I've shown you evidence that deaths from Covid have been undercounted, and vaccine "deaths" are definitely overestimated, with any death following vaccination seemingly being counted by antivaxers as being a "vaccine death". Confirmed US deaths from vaccines number in double figures; deaths from Covid go into 6 figures.
As far as I recall, one person in Florida who died in a motorcycle accident was supposedly certified as having Covid and may have been counted as a Covid death. That would be an attribution error by the administrator officially recording the causes of death, not an error on the death certificate as such if trauma from the accident was listed in Part 1 of the certificate.
You've already spammed this screed of word salad in your above comment.
As I have pointed out, many deaths have been misclassified. There has been serious UNDERcounting of deaths. Most scientists indicate that Covid death reports represent *underestimates* because they failed to capture Covid deaths that were misclassified as deaths from other causes.
Almost anything will test PCR positive when run out to 45 cycles.
SARS-CoV-2 is diagnosed around a threshold of 28 to 30 cycles. Traces of RNA that emerge with extreme amplification are NOT regarded as indicative of active infection.
This is when the tide turned ... we have Florida to thank for that. It was immediatley apparent that these PCR tests were being rigged to create FALSE positives and gin up the fear porn
As I've tried to explain to you...if cases are hugely overestimated because of "false positives", then that would make documented "Covid" a far less lethal disease than it really is.
So if you accept that there are loads of false positives, you also have to come around to the conclusion that Covid has a much higher fatality rate than people currently think.
But then logic isn't your strong point...you are the guy who thinks viruses don't exist.
>"Covid" a far less lethal disease than it really is.
Which is exactly what it is. 99.7% recovery rate. Its always been on par with the seasonal flu and the target remains the elderly and immune compromised. But this fact gets set aside by corporate shills like you.
>So if you accept that there are loads of false positives, you also have to come around to the conclusion that Covid has a much higher fatality rate than people currently think.
Do you think before you type out this crap?. Read that again. How does loads of FALSE positives (where everything from motor cycle accidents to homocides were labelled a Covid death) amount to a true high fatality FROM Covid? Are you demented?
>you are the guy who thinks viruses don't exist.
Just because many believe something doesnt make it true. Science isnt a popularity contest you moron.
Centuries ago all of learned scientific opinion accepted that the Sun revolves around the Earth. One man Galileo argued the opposite with proof.
Where are we NOW?
The point is that science isnt driven by concensus you corporate shill.
It doesn’t make sense immunologically. Antibodies always decline with a half life of 21 days once the pathogen has been cleared. The immune system depends almost entirely on memory B cells and T cells that will be reactivated when the pathogen is encountered again rather than antibodies. If antibodies didn’t reduce then our blood would be like sludge following a lifetime of infections.
Therefore the lack of antibodies is not a valid measure of the effectiveness of the immune system to a specific antigen. If there are antibodies for any length of time then surely that suggests a massive pathogen load or reinfection.
Someone commented about Covid deaths being exaggerated. The first "authority" listed at their cited website was a man who denied that the AIDS virus causes AIDS and denied that global climate change is real. However, published studies have shown that Covid deaths have been UNDER reported. Here's a recent one:
"Official COVID-19 mortality statistics have not fully captured deaths attributable to SARS- CoV-2 infection in the United States." "This suggests that many excess deaths reported to non-COVID-19 natural causes during the first 30 mo of the pandemic in the United States were unrecognized COVID-19 deaths." source: Proceedings of the National Academy of Science December 6, 2023.
I find actual data from high-ranking scientific journals a bit more trust-worthy than AIDS deniers, even if they won a Nobel (for something entirely different).
Something often missing from these articles and discussions is long Covid. Because of Long Covid, the usefulness of the vaccines goes beyond merely preventing hospitalization and death. After reading several of Dr Offit's articles, hearing his interviews and lectures on the Web, and reading (and recommending) his books, I find it strange that long Covid has been largely a neglected topic.
For me (a retired biochemist in my 70s with multiple mRNA vaccinations and no known Covid infections), a pertinent comparison is this: What are the relative risks of long Covid between taking updated boosters every six months indefinitely versus no more shots. I assume that if something reduces my chances of Covid infection by even 40%, that will reduce my chances of long Covid by some appreciable amount. Unless I see contrary data disproving the effectiveness of boosters, I will probably take my eighth shot in a few months.
Why? Data matters. The data I've seen shows a modest reduction in Covid cases via boosters. And no Covid means no long Covid for me. Although no longer having 95% efficacy, they still help some. For some actual data on this, I suggest reading articles by epidemiologist Dr. Katelyn Jetelina, easily found by a Websearch for "Your Local Epidemiologist boosters."
Anecdotes are also useful (in context). After two bouts of Covid a family friend who was in great shape and an avid bicyclist now has trouble walking, had to give up driving, and has mental fog. A young science educator called "Physics Girl" developed long Covid and has been bedfast for a year. My wife's last Ph.D. student had heart problems lasting almost a year after a case of Covid. Long Covid is real and I see much less risk in avoiding it than avoiding boosters.
There are over 2 million adverse events reported under Vaers (which for CONViD eclipses the combined reports since its very inception). And according to Former FDA chairman Dr Kessler - Vaers is severly underreported by 99%.
So you are looking at potentially 200Million adverse events ranging from myo/pericarditis to guillame barre' from facial paralysis to sudden death. Thats just a few of the 1,200+ adverse events Pfizer and Moderna owned up to.
Thats just some of the information the FDA wanted hidden for 55 years
Reports to VAERS do not imply causation. Many are merely reports that health care workers are obliged to identify...The CDC asks them to report ALL deaths in anyone who ever had vaccination. So you can get a VAERS report of a man who died of pneumonia 2 years after his vaccination, and it ends up as a VAERS report.
VAERS go to great lengths to explain this on their webpage and you have to tick a box stating you understand this before any access to their data.
Perhaps you can't read, as well as being unable to do math?
I ceased listening to the CDC/FDA/NIH/NIADS and assorted idiotic paid for pay "experts" 10 years ago with the birth of my first child. And haven't regretted it
Funny you call thenm "clot shots", when the risk of VITT and serious clots is vanishingly rare frm the vaccines, but the risk of serious clotting caused by Covid itself is high.
One large study done in Sweden showed that infection with Covid increases the incidence of DVT by 5-fold, pulmonary embolus by 33-fold, and doubles the risk of serious bleeds.
Perhaps it's best for us to just let Darwin do his much-needed work. Occasionally, I ponder how high the Case Fatality Rate of the next pandemic would need to be for there to be a backlash against the anti-vax movement. My best guess is that it would take 40 or 50% CFE. Of course, even with that, there'd still be people not wanting to take the shots. In general, humans su*k at weighing relative risks. I saw a cute cartoon with three "cavemen" out on the savannah. Two of them were holding big spears. The third was complaining, "What? I'm not going to risk getting splinters in my hands. And I'm not going to worry about your so-called lion."
Meanwhile you could see the lion out in the tall grass smiling like the Cheshire cat.
Mike, something to consider is the aspect of religious belief. I have a friend with a Ph.D. in science who uses homeopathic remedies, and you couldn't convince my friend to take a Covid shot, even if you offered $10,000. Alternative medicine in the USA is basically a religion (homeopathy, reiki, therapeutic touch, etc.). It is something taken largely on faith, rather than on data. Those folks who haven't figured out that the plural of anecdote is not data. I'm going to suggest this faith aspect to YLE sometime. She does such a good job at providing evidence-based advice. Perhaps she could reach out to some cognitive psychologists for advice on her strategies. Note -- By religion, I don't just mean Christianity, etc. I mean, in general, the basing of decisions NOT on objective evidence, which is how things were done before the scientific revolution. Looking at the anti-vaccine movement as a religion puts it into a different perspective. Regardless of what non-evidence-based method one uses for rejecting modern medicine (my tent preacher said they're bad; my religion doesn't allow it; my naturopath says they're dangerous; Fox "news" told me they're bad; or my cousin is a nurse and her Facebook page told me all I need to know). Regards of which faith-based reasoning, rather than evidence-based reasoning method, the old adage applies: "You Cannot Reason People Out of Something They Were Not Reasoned Into." It would be as difficult as talking a fundamentalist out of their religion. Yes, perhaps it time to let Darwin and Co. add some chlorine to the gene pool, which just might happen with H5N1. Best wishes to you Mike S. By the way, if you haven't heard of him, there's a west coast M.D. that has a blog with lots of interesting stuff about CAM. Here's the ink: http://quackcast.com/spodcasts/page6.html A recent podcast of his is entitled, "Make Acupuncture Great Again." He also has a fun novel "Skeptics in the Pub: Cholera." And no, I'm not Mark, just a fan.
Children should never have gotten it. 8/2021 Dr. Tracy Hoeg UC Irvine signals showing 4-6X increase in hospitalization from the vax vs. covid illness (166/million vaxxed 26/million covid illness)
It's amazing this is still being discussed 4 years since this SCAMdemic. Most sane people aren't buying this and the proof is Pfizer and Moderns plunging profits.
No, it does not make sense. CDC and FDA committed the US government to infinity boosting for covid before any evidence for the strategy was available and they seem determined to continue. No one has any idea what perpetual repetitive injections of the mRNA shots will do to the immune system or to the immune response to covid. Antigenic imprinting and development of immune tolerance are real phenomena that have to be considered as well. The vast majority of Americans are ignoring these CDC and FDA recommendations and they risk generating more vaccine skepticism and contempt for the poor judgment of these agencies.
Offit is saying the evidence to support the strategy is lacking, so it might make sense, it might not.
One needs to weigh benefits against harms; it should boost both humoral and cellular immune responses, and we know the vaccines have a good safety record.
Hypothetical issues such as immune tolerance appear to remain hypothetical without any clear evidence of this happening despite boosting.
We also know that in at least one individual who bizarrely contrived to get 217 Covid vaccines there was no evidence of immunological impairment or IgG subclass switching, and virus specific antibody responses remained enhanced.
The CDC advice may prove to be over protective, but you are correct in that many/most will probably ignore the advice. They have been so saturated with antivaccine misinformation they don’t know who to believe.
Paid shill
Your proof of this being?
However, it's revealing that rather than discussing the science, you now realise you're on the losing side of the argument and wave the "pharma shill" white flag of surrender.
another troll. go away
I think it’s A I responding
Your evidence being what, troll?
YOUR comments.
Your mad and single-driven defense of the indefensible.
When people are this passionate (on either side); its tied to emotion/experience or pay.
The callousness with which you dismiss adverse events (some of which include paralysis and death) is all the proof I need that you are paid to be here.
So, no evidence then. I thought not.
If I sound “passionate”, put that down to experience. I’ve seen more deaths from this virus than I’ve seen from any other infection in my medical career, and almost all (after 2020) have been unnecessary and avoidable through vaccination.
Thank you
Mike S., why is Offit even suggesting this should be up for discussion at this point (3+ years)? Wasn’t “THE SCIENCE” settled in 2021? It’s too late to question “the science”. Mike S. please shut up and take another booster and support “the science “.
Who said the science is settled? It is never settled.
you sound like an antivaxxer, Mike S. Words like these are what cause vaccine hesitancy. why not follow the example of the gentleman from Germany who took 200+ shots?
at the very least, tell everyone how many stupid booster shots you’ve taken, if any.
Thanks for the comment which I agree with. It makes me feel less along in my criticism which seems to me to be lacking elsewhere despite its logic. And there is no reason why the CDC or whoever is qualified can't do the studies that the Dr. would like-that I agree would be good- while at the same time erring on the side of giving more boosters, more certainly saving more lives (the benefits have been well proven) versus hypothetical or possible minor risks.
Some studies suggest there is decrease in IgG1 and increase in IgG4 which leads to tolerance and immune suppression (Dr Jessica Rose on Substack). Dr. Geert Bosche virologist and vaccinologist did not feelit was a good idea to vaccinate into the pandemic. He felt it leads to more mutations and you would always be chasing the virus.
The data contradicted him, however, when it became clear that mutations occur regardless, and lengthy infections in immuno-compromised individuals are phenomenally productive of viable mutations. That is how Omicron came to be, in the absence of immune response.
https://rumble.com/v4gw849-in-2020-rfk-jr.-predicted-exactly-how-covid-shots-would-fail.html
You did not even need to be a fancy public health guy or virologist to know they have never been able to make vaccines for respiratory diseases. People will be critical of RFK but sorry he called it perfectly well before a vaccine was ready. He even called how people like Fauci and Gates were going to hype the notion that we were trapped until a vaccine would release us back into the wild. What a scam, at least it was so bad that many people woke up to the large lists of manipulations pharma and the regulators have been using for decades.
Vaccines for respiratory diseases?
First, I'd point out that although Covid is mainly respiratory, it is also multisystemic.
...There ARE vaccines against respiratory diseases. As always, they are not 100% effective (nothing is) but they are very effective at preventing infection and serious disease. They include vaccines against viruses like RSV, influenza, and measles (the vaccine is highly effective, and since most kids who die from it are killed by measles pneumonia then I call it a respiratory disease").
Then there are vaccines againt bacteria such as pneumococcus, Haemophilus influenzae, pertussis and diphtheria. The TB vaccine is not effective against infection, but seems to protect against TB meningitis and reduces other consequences of TB.
Isn’t that interesting, after Covid the idea that vaccines prevent disease is out the window, I guess that’s progress. Back in the day vaccines prevented disease and drugs mostly treated disease but sometimes prevented it - you could find it at the WHO and elsewhere.
Now everyone is careful not to say 100% effective and the disclaimer at the end of ads that they come with risks and don’t guarantee protection is there. But it took Covid shots actually offering negative effectiveness for the 100% line to be retired.
So, having been wrong about “no vaccines for respiratory diseases”, you think you can switch topics to vaccines don’t prevent infection/disease.
That deflection tactic won't work either. Vaccines that I’m sure you regarded as vaccines pre-Covid include ones like tetanus (prevents zero infections), pertussis (prevents about 1/3), influenza (40-50%), diphtheria (zero), pneumococcus (50%)…I could go on. They almost all prevent *disease* however.
Covid vaccines prevented around 60-90% of infection during the early pandemic period (alpha/delta), and 30% or so Omicron. The main issue is that this protection is of limited durability, around 6m.
It does durably prevent disease/death however (50-90% effective)
See you have moved from they all prevent disease to they are somewhat effective. But they only stimulate a less than perfect infection from an artificial version of a virus and have all sorts of negative consequences, unvaccinated kids are much healthier in the area of overall chronic conditions (ear infections etc the list is endless). Vaccinated kids are less healthy probably from a compromised immune system from so many artificial stimulations.
Infectious disease aren’t the threat to life that is portrayed, this idea we’re going back to 1900 era mortality if we stop is ridiculous, frankly just another scare tactic that is a hallmark of public health and pharma. If you can’t see public health is completely captured by pharma you’re not looking very hard, or maybe you’re part of it.
Truth be told the immune system is so complex and the lab coats barely understand the tip of the iceberg, look what a screw up COVID was / still is. Had they done absolutely nothing it would have been long gone by now, instead the mass vaccination caused the proliferation of variants because the shots did nothing more than asymptomatic protection for a short period, then the vaccinated have faired worse, all the outcomes reporting by vaxx status disappeared once the reporting was clear the vaxxd were doing worse. We have on going excess mortality and long term disability numbers of working age people are up significantly since the shots and governing bodies are doing everything possible to move on without looking into it. It’s a manmade mess. Great job pharma / public health.
Eventually using vaccines in a mass population wide basis will be held up there along with cigarettes as a massively wrong detour we found ourselves on.
I know this goes against every fibre in your body, that’s fine, it’s a free world isn’t it? You believe what you will, take as many shots as you need to protect yourself and leave it there. It’s pretty clear especially after COVID that there is no social contract aspect to vaccines. The truth is vaccines should be reserved for the sickest of society, allow healthy people to go through infection to create real herd immunity. I know statements like this blow up your brain, but you guys need to start getting your head around these issues.
The Californian department of health immunization branch reported the Disney outbreak with 131 cases. 57 unvaxxd. 25 vaccinated with records. Of remaining 49 cases no documentation of vaxx status was available, but 48 were adults and of those 20 said they were vaxx and the other 28 could not recall but being adults in the USA on balance there is a better chance than not they were when the overall vaxx rate is reported to be 97% of population. So you can make a case that 73 of the 131 were vaxxd.
Anyway you are one of those types that no matter what can’t being yourself to say someone isn’t an anti vaxx no matter what information is available to justify it not being worth the risk taking the shots. Especially when the risk from the disease itself is so low.
The biggest issue you never address is the fact that mortality from measles was almost zero before they even began the vaccination programs. The plumber did more for public health relating to disease mortality than pharma ever did. If we had the chance to do it over again we would take a week with an uncomfortable rash over uncontrolled neurological ticks for life.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsus/vsrates1940_60.pdf
Page 85 has the morality rates per 100,000 for measles.
The mentality of the must vaxx crowd, that accept that vaccines do have adverse effects, will say but it’s so rare that it can’t possible be the case for you, and the proofs they call for that would be necessary to conclude they know are almost impossible to obtain especially when there is a Mnt put in your way to work your way through the system. Anyway this sort of mentality is why people like Galileo spent the last years of his life under house arrest.
The must vaxx crowd use the same tactics that big tobacco used for so many years.
One day people will see we went down the wrong track with mass vaccination. Again the toilet did more than vaccines ever did.
Like I said you’re cooked.
Amen. The lies never stopped coming
They way the overall health of society is going it’s time to give less drugs and vaccines a try. Like when your grandma is totally screwed up and someone new looks into it and she’s on 20 types of prescriptions. They do a reset stop everything and 9 times out of 10 she snaps back. You guys pushing drugs are just like any drug pusher motivated by money.
The fact is that it does mutate and that variants are almost always around - look at flu. the CDC has tried for years to get ahead of the dominant strains with modest success. At some point - probably after studies and much dithering - they decided to offer strong doses to older people. One of the alleged benefits of the mRNA vaccines is that they can be modified more quickly. If that's true it argues for testing for variant and vaccination more frequently to protect against them.
Flu isn't a good comparison. New strains come about by a additional mechanism (reassortment) that's more like a swap meet than what we usually think of as mutation and far more radical in effect. Reassortment randomly combines parts from different flu strains during simultaneous infection, creating entirely new strains. It's also not always clear which strains of flu are going to be important in any given year. Flu travels the world via migrating wild birds. When and where the next spillover will happen and which strains will be involved is seldom clear.
One of the better books to emerge from the pandemic, an excellent companion to Dr. Offit's "Tell Me When It's Over" and David Quammen's "Breathless," is Michael Lewis' "Premonition." It presents a "first responder" perspective on the emergency through the eyes of people who, like the main characters in his book "The Big Short," saw catastrophe coming and tried, with mixed results, to get people to act. Although it is written for a popular audience, it should be required reading for everyone in health care.
It is undeniable that we need more data about SARS-CoV-2, COVID-19, and both natural and vaccine-induced immunity. It is debatable whether we need those data before taking or recommending action. Sensible car owners change the oil regularly based on their vehicle's age and model, regardless of whether it "needs" it and without requiring scientific data about their specific vehicle and driver cohorts. We don't expect scientists and engineers to stop lubrication research; we just don't need to wait for them to publish new results. Sensible body owners get their shots.
Political disinformation (or disorganization, take your pick) led to hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths in the United States, no question, but scientific hesitancy--at a time when immediate and decisive action was needed--put a heavy finger on the scales. "We need more data" had a high cost in human lives.
By all means, let's have longitudinal studies in those four populations. By all means, let's shame the CDC into action. But in the meantime, lack of data seems a weak argument against erring on the side of safety.
Precisely. And I am sure that Dr. Offit has seen these sorts of comments before and he doesn't seem willing or able to respond to them. "scientific hesitancy" is a great phrase to describe it - and it is inexcusable given the number of lives at stake.
There are no lives at stake; it's a cold for goodness sakes. It's been almost 4 years of this nonsense; at what point do people like you "get a clue"
Jesus Christ
I lost three friends to COVID. almost lost another. He recovered but his wife didn't make it. Those are clues.
I got it myself a year ago, and no "cold" (or flu, for that matter) ever felt so bad or hurt so much. That's a clue.
There are broad epidemiological and mortality data: robust data collected independently by many different countries and health organizations, all showing the same trends of excess deaths. Those are clues.
An entire college course in virology, 25 lectures, is freely available online. Even skimming the lectures, you can gain a basic understanding of what viruses are, why and how some viruses cause disease while others don't, and how the body deals with them (or doesn't). Those are great clues, because without them you have no basis for forming an opinion. You can only copy what someone else said.
There are plenty of clues.
"United wishes and good will cannot overcome brute facts," Churchill wrote in his WW 2 memoir. "Truth is incontrovertible. Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it. But there it is.” Those five sentences tell how to determine whether one is facing panic (bring calm, using empathy and education), ignorance (provide real, relatable information) or malice (ignore or counter, depending on the circumstances).
Only politicians (not all, in fairness) and sociopaths are fully immune to facts.
Your anecdotal "evidence" notwithstanding; we now know for a fact that death counts due to CONvid were inflated. Hell even the flu went away for two years.
The medical-pharmaceutical complex is a den of lies. Pharmaceutical manufacturers fund studies, academic institutions and the media
We witnessed attacks on Doctors who refused to tow the narrative. Attacks on decades used, award winning but OUT OF PATENT drugs like HCQ and IVM.
Thats all from 2020 to 2022.
And now thanks to the work of Researchers like Dr Mark Bailey we are learning that virology is a hoax.
Covid has NEVER been isolated. The pictures you see on television are computer models, nothing more
PCR tests are not the full proof diagnostics tests they are held out to be. At high cycle counts they produce overwhelmingly FALSE positives. And since CONvid has NEVER been isolated you are looking at cellular debris not any virus
This is all a replay of the HIV-AIDS drama of the 1980s when three letter health agencies trying desperately to remain relevant concucted a lie about a non existent virus instead of admitting gay males use of nitrite based uppers were destroying their immune systems
And with billions of grant money at stake the medical establishment fell in line
I thought you might not be a troll. My mistake. Nonetheless, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt one last time.
The glaring falsehoods in the abstract of Bailey's "expert edition" PDF foreshadow a combination of misdirection, misinformation, and mischaracterization that dominates the rest. They clearly have no understanding of phylogenetics or how virus research is actually done. To someone with no background knowledge it could all seem quite plausible, but to me it reads like tabloid media: fake scandal and calculated deception to prop up the story.
COVID death counts, based on total numbers of excess deaths (all causes) and the heavy drop in flu infections due to school closures, social distancing, and masks, look to be significantly underestimated in most countries, including the US. Take a good look at the graphs. The "overestimation" myth is just that: a myth.
COVID is the disease, not the virus, so of course it "has never been isolated." The virus is SARS-CoV-2. It has indeed been isolated from live human patients many times in many countries. It was imaged directly in electron micrographs as early as December 2019 from one of the first patients, which is how the "pneumonia of unknown etiology" was identified as a coronavirus, even before the genome was sequenced.
Scientists and competent clinicians do not consider a high-value PCR to be diagnostic of anything other than leftover RNA fragments, no matter what the media (or the Baileys) say, far less a "false positive." A high threshold value of 32 means there was so little in the sample that it had to be doubled 32 times (that's four billion!) before there was enough to detect. Low-threshold (<20) PCR would be strong evidence, but still doesn't prove the presence of replication-competent virus. None of that is news to anyone. The Baileys pretend otherwise, but they must know better.
Positive identification of "live" virus requires a technique such as plaque assay that shows actual cytopathic effect and from which replication-competent virus can be isolated. Yes, isolated. From live samples collected from patients. It's a routine lab technique that has been done many times for SARS-CoV-2, contrary to what the Baileys assert, widely reported from labs across the world.
Virus thus isolated has been used to infect various types of susceptible lab animals and study how it spreads from host to host. This has also been done in many labs in many countries, again contrary to the Baileys' nonsense about "it's all in petri dishes!" Search Google Scholar and you'll find hundreds of papers.
Your HIV-AIDS bit is just... silly. AIDS was around long before "uppers" even existed and kills as many women as men in places where it is still out of control (and "nitrite based uppers" don't exist), like parts of Africa. Chimps die of AIDS caused by HIV's ancestor, Simian Immuno-Virus (SIV). Read "The Chimp and the River" by David Quammen, or the several papers by Worobey et al on the phylogenetics of HIV and SIV published from 2004 to 2016. They're easy to find on Google Scholar if you genuinely want to know.
rombios doesn't genuinely want to know, unfortunately, but thanks for your informative contribution to the debate.
Nothing you posted changes the conclusion Dr Bailey reached.
Both Doctors have a website and a comments section.
Why don't you post this there and see what they collectively say instead of regurgitating the talking points of your pharma shill handlers!!!
Let's address some of your drivel
>Virus thus isolated has been used to infect various types of susceptible lab animals and study how it spreads from host to host.
This has NEVER been done. Viruses satisfying Kochs postulate have NEVER been isolated. For CONvid, millions of dollars have been offered for definite proof of the virus but has never ben taken up
>and the heavy drop in flu infections due to school closures, social distancing, and masks, look to be significantly underestimated in most countries, including the US.
Let's see. Sars/COVID and the flu, both respiratory illnesses ;however the silly useless social distancing and mask motivating rules reduce flu encounters but not COVID?
Are you retarded?
>COVID is the disease, not the virus, so of course it "has never been isolated." The virus is SARS-CoV-2
Thank you Captain obvious. Moron: the two words are interchangeable. Much like HIV and AIDS.
HIV; ANOTHER non existent virus. Thanks to Peter Duesbergs "Inventing The Aids Virus". Great book and eye opener
>Your HIV-AIDS bit is just... silly. AIDS was around long before "uppers" even existed
Fool, AIDS does exist. It's acronym says it all.
A state of compromised immunity from external factors (diet, environment, drug use etc).
In the case of malnourished African children in war torn countries it's apparent. No food, unclean water, stress etc.
In developed, first countries there was a concerted attempt to hide the fact that the majority of cases were gay males using recreational uppers.
Then fraudulent PCR tests that generate FALSE positives (see a pattern?) were introduced to try and make it an "everyone" problem. So that grant money can flow along with opportunities to sell anti retrovirals.
We saw this play out with remdesivier two years ago. Aka "run death is near"
So it's all a lie...there is no virus, there were no cases, there were no deaths, and vaccines killed millions.
Yep, we've heard all this conspiracist BS meany many times before. Can't you come up with anything vaguely original? Still, it's refreshing to see you haven't bought into the lab engineered bioweapon conspiracy (one assumes you haven't, anyway, if you say the virus is non existent)
NBC news correspondent asks Wuhan Research Doctor why have the data not been provided @1:33
https://rumble.com/v3302bc-the-never-isolated-the-virus.html?start=93
His response: "the virus has NEVER been isolated"
I have already covered it above but reading isnt your strong suit so here is a video by Dr Bailey explaining this in laymans terms
https://drsambailey.com/resources/videos/viruses-unplugged/viruses-dont-exist-and-why-it-matters/
Enjoy
Since when does “a cold” have a 0.3-0.4% fatality rate?
Since fraudulent PCR tests done with HIGH cycle counts (known to generate FALSE positives) became the norm in 2020-2022
#Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html
#CDC withdraws fraudulent PCR testing protocol that was used to falsify covid
“positives” to push the plandemic
https://services.austintexas.gov/edims/document.cfm?id=364945
#22 Scientists Publish Paper Claiming The PCR Test Is “Useless” For Detecting COVID-19 Cases
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/12/no_author/22-scientists-publish-paper-claiming-the-pcr-test-is-useless-for-detecting-covid-19-cases/
#Portuguese court rules PCR tests are unreliable, unlawful
https://naturalnews.com/2020-12-03-portuguese-court-pcr-tests-unreliable-quarantine-unlawful.html
#Florida Forcing Labs to Report Number of PCR Test Cycles—Game Changer
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/12/jon-rappoport/florida-forcing-labs-to-report-number-of-pcr-test-cycles-game-changer/
As usual your logic is flawed....
...If there were lots of false positive tests, then Covid would be greatly overdiagnosed in those without any infection, making the infection fatality rate far, far lower than it really is.
So I ask again (no deflection this time please), since when has a "cold" ever had a 0.4% fatality rate?
Mike is A .I I think. He has pat answers that seem not to have connection with comment
AI? Seriously?
I think those whose responses don't link to the topic of the subthread are all antivaxers...they keep changing tack when challenged, and aavoid being pinned down by the facts. Just see how often it happens.
For instance I responded to Rombios's comment that Covid was just a cold by asking why it should then have such a high fatality rate (0.3-4%, as opposed to the 0.0001% fatality from the common cold).
In response to that, instead of addressing my point and question, Rombios jinked sideways and started talking about false positive PCRs.
He was stupid to do so, because if there are lots of false positive Covid diagnoses (well people who did not have Covid getting misdiagnosed as such) then the measured fatality of Covid would logically go DOWN below what it already is. So false positive test results cannot be an explanation for Covid having a higher reported fatality rate than the common cold.
Now, if you were logical, which you aren't (just like Rombios is not), you could take HIS post as representing a comment from an AI troll because it had little to no connection with the comment it was in response to. Why did you not do so? Why accuse me, and not him? Clearly by your own definition, his was the AI generated response, and not mine.
Many in the medical field living in fear taking boosters wearing masks and scaring families
I think those in the medical field take boosters because they are familiar with the facts and evidence that demonstrates the benefits of vaccination in averting serious disease and death, as well as greatly reducing the risks of long Covid.
That's common sense, and not "living in fear", no more than someone buckling up a seat belt when they drive a car is "living in fear"
You are right that we await better data. Had you all not been so keen to embrace the jabs, and waited for better data and independent analyses, you might have decided that the jabs should not have even been approved: https://okaythennews.substack.com/p/science-summary-covid-19-vaccines
Dear Monday Mording QB, we were losing at the heights 1000's of people per day including a good friend of mine who refused "the Jab" his brother who got "the jab" survived. This was the norm in early covid. My hospital ICU was over run and I live in a Rich Area with 3 large hospitals all within 10 miles from me. The Vast majority cloggin up the ICU's were non-vaccinated! We Experiment EVERYDAY on ourselves and other people, It is Unavoidable. Sometimes you cant just sit on the sideline and hope other people are Brave while you cower down in your Idealist bubble. Thank you to all the true heroes, the people who volunteered to test the Vaccines!
Cower? I wouldn't call standing by our principles and being persecuted for it - for nothing - cowering. I 'bravely' fought off COVID without any help from the jabs and easily won. I think if anyone cowered it were the people that complied with all the directives and rushed out to get the jab.
1.2 million people in the US didn’t manage to fight off this disease successfully, no matter how “bravely” they tried.
Is that how many were murdered in hospitals following the NIH protocol?
Oh, and by the way Paul, here's another study, this time on 20 million people demonstrating clearly that the vaccines are the "NOT-A-CLOT shots"...
https://heart.bmj.com/content/early/2024/01/24/heartjnl-2023-323483
You'll no doubt reject this study. Maybe you'll demand "more" subjects take part?
No, it's the number who died from Covid.
If a million people were "murdered" in hospital, how come there hasn't been a single murder charge or court case as a result?
Cycle threshold used to detect covid was 45 initially. Kari Mullis never felt PCR should be used to diagnose disease, the presence of RNA particles. He passed away 8/2019 before pandemic. You should read his autobiography. Incredible scientist.
Yep
You "fought off" and easily won. But the evidence on the efficacy of the vaccine is clear. That isn't disproven by your personal experience. Dr. Offit doesn't 't dispute that people should get vaccinated. His reticence is to give boosters. On what grounds he refuses to explain.
This efficacy you speak of is exactly what is being questioned in the latest science: https://okaythennews.substack.com/p/science-summary-covid-19-vaccines
This isn’t the “latest” scientific research; it’s a revisionist viewpoint of the available vaccine science by antivaxers, who are looking for any reason they can to reject the current science.
It’s ok to question the available science however, but what isn’t good optics is rejecting the answers one gets to one’s questions on the basis of flimsy, flawed reasoning.
Not interested in discussing with you. You are a liar. I am not an anti-vaxxer, and nether is Doshi. Anyone else can check out: https://okaythennews.substack.com/p/science-summary-covid-19-vaccines
There’s not any emoji’s, so I’ll just laugh out loud.
Are you going to pimp your substack on every article made by Dr Offit?
Are you going to reply to EVERY comment on EVERY article made by Dr Offit?
You are insufferable.
And to go through and 'like' all your OWN comments???
You ARE a loser.
You are a paid shrill bruv. Don't judge lest you be judged
Who pays me? Do you have evidence for your accusation? This is just deflection and BS like all your other posts are.
But on the other hand, you might have objectively looked at independent analyses and decided the jabs were a great idea.
You would have to have an IQ below room temperature to look at that cooked data showing most deaths were the elderly and immuno compromised (flu season) to reach that retarded conclusion that the jab was the safe bet over COD liver oil, rest and sunlight
In summary, the “science” always knew that boostering every 3 months is required to maintain antibody levels, and once you’ve had the disease, unless you’re immune compromised there is no need for the vaccine. Remember, at the time these tyrants were saying “screw your freedom”. Some of the Socialist trolls here still adhere to the Covid orthodoxy.
If you’re infected with a pathogen that causes IgG antibodies to be formed, which can take 7-14 days to reach peak levels, the antibodies only remain as long as the pathogen remains, once the pathogen has been cleared sufficiently the number of IgG antibodies starts to decrease with a half life of 21 days. At some point the presence of antibodies will fall below a detectable level.
Don’t forget that antibodies are not immune cells but are proteins produced by B cells. Some of the B cells and T cells become memory cells. If at some point in the future you are infected with the same pathogen then the memory cells are able to restart the antibody production within 3-5 days instead of the 7-14 days for the original infection.
If you have a vaccination, the first dose will trigger the same response as the pathogen does. It has a similar antibody production/reduction profile 7-14 days to peak followed by a reduction once the injected pathogen is cleared with a half life of 21 days. This leaves behind some memory T and B cells.
If you have a second booster vaccination, then the process is repeated but with a peak being reached in around 5 days, however, this time there are more memory cells present, those from the first dose plus those from the second dose.
If you have a third booster vaccination then the same pattern as for the second dose occurs. This time there are three lots of memory cells.
If you are subsequently infected then the immune response will still take 3-5 days to peak, but there are more memory cells available.
Someone may correct me, but I have a recollection that multiple exposure to the same pathogen increases the specificity of the antibodies produced, or I may have made that up!
Here in the U.K. one of the first childhood vaccines, Diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis (whooping cough), polio, Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) and hepatitis B, is given at 8 weeks, 12 weeks and 16 weeks. Further vaccines and boosters are administered over the next 16 years with varying intervals. Five vaccinations against Tetanus toxin give a lifetime’s protection, but a booster will still be administered prophylactically if the person has a tetanus prone wound.
No vaccine by itself stops an individual from being infected.
If you have B cells and T cells from your vaccination, then why a booster every 6 months? For us (almost everybody) that has had COVID, we’re good on memory cells.
Memory T cells can induce protection against clinically significant disease, and so this immunity is durable, but to gain help in protection from infection one needs repeated boosting since neutralising antibody levels drop off by 6 months.
Why does an infant need the same vaccination three times in two months at four week intervals? It’s to maximise the immune response by increasing the number of memory cells.
Some of your memory cells obtained after infection may not produce neutralising antibodies, but against the other proteins of the virus that aren’t necessary for entry into host cells. Which is why the vaccines specifically target the spike protein as these are the proteins that elicit entry into the cell via ACE2.
If you want a better explanation then I’d recommend watching both Vincent Racianello’s virology lectures and Brianne Barker’s immunology lectures on YouTube, these are recordings of their lectures given to undergraduates at their respective universities.
And just to add...those who need boosting are those with suboptimal immune responses...the immune deficient, those with immunosuppression and with immunosenescence.
Their B and T cell responses are subpar, and they cannot rely on natural infection to afford them any clinically relevant protection.
still spreading vaccine hesitancy, Mike? People were told to take these shots or lose their jobs. This was the choice millions of people faced. Why should you argue the nuances of natural immunity? You shouldn’t have the luxury of arguments. you should take every single jab the CDC recommends. I think you need a jab everyday. Everyday.
I think you need to inject yourself with SARS2 virus. Everyday. Only until it kills you, mind.
They are infants.Different immune system. That is why infants are more at risk for illness.
My question was somewhat rhetorical, as I am aware of the differences between infant, young child, adolescent and adult immune systems.
With neonates having practically zero immune response and dependent on mums antibodies passed through both placenta and breast milk, which is why in pregnancy vaccinations against pertussis are offered in the third trimester.
Yes, sometimes it requires multiple vaccine injections to be effective. Tell me, how many mRNA Covid boosters would be required to achieve durable immunity?
Using other U.K. vaccines as the yardstick with a lot of guesswork
Tetanus lifetime immune response after five vaccinations over a period of time although for tetanus prone wounds a prophylactic vaccination would be administered in A&E or if the person was unclear of how many vaccinations they’d had.
By the time a child is 14 they have received
5 tetanus
5 diphtheria
5 polio
4 pertussis
4 Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib)
3 Hepatitis B
3 Meningococcal group B
2 Rotavirus
2 Pneumococcal
2 MMR
1 HPV
1 Meningococcal groups A, C, W and Y
Influenza is an annual event, as this varies dependent on the current virus(es) in circulation.
As Measles, Rubella, pertussis and diphtheria are all respiratory infections and young children are dependent on their innate immune system as their adaptive system is immature it would seem that 3 to 5 vaccinations against COVID 19 may be sufficient for most people. The proviso being that the spike protein maintains a number of epitopes between strains, primarily the ACE2 antigen.
That’s a lot of words to say “ I don’t know. In fact nobody does, which is why they keep recommending them every 6 months” Which health authority has published a maximum 3-5 vaccine recommendation?
I had Covid 3/20. Confirmed antibodies and T cell function (T Detect 2 years after illness). There was no easy way to get T cell function checked. Had Covid once. In the olde age group. Exposed constantly to Covid. And kids never needed the vax Much made little sense in response to this. And heaven forbid you try to discuss early treatment
Early treatment is recommended for those with high risk, in the form of paxlovid. This isn’t really controversial.
Early “treatment” with ineffective drugs is of course of no benefit to anyone except for those selling them for vast profits.
“Selling them for vast profits” do you mean like paxlovid?
It’s effective, that’s the main difference.
again, nonsense on this subject. The CDC hasn't said that having the disease makes it unnecessary to get vaccinated - just not as soon. and the "science"didn't indicate that a vaccine was required every 3 months. If it did, they'd be recommending it now - at least to avoid serious illness - but they're not. I wish they would at least for older people like my wife and myself. I am still waiting to hear from Dr. Offitt the risk/benefit evaluation that he is doing to recommend against boosters. Knowing what he THINKS are the risks and what he thinks is the probability of those risks being accurate - and widespread enough -to outoutweigh the benefits would be nice.
Are you sure about that?
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/stay-up-to-date.html
That talks about the timing of a single booster dose; it doesn’t say you need one repeatedly every 3 months.
Why do you think it means that?
I know reading comprehension is hard for you, so let me quote.
“ People aged 12 years and older who got COVID-19 vaccines before September 12, 2023, should get 1 updated Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, or Novavax COVID-19 vaccine.”
3 months, 6 months, the argument doesn’t change.
Amazing how you actually quote the words “should get 1 updated vaccine” yet your brain reads that as “should get a vaccine every 3 months”, isn’t it?
🤪
How many months ago was September 2023? Amazing that your brain can willfully ignore the critical issue.
Glad Mike took care of most of this. The CDC report doesn't say anything about not getting vaxxed after getting COVID. On the contrary, read down and you will see explicitly that they say one should but probably not in the next three months.
Wow, sharp as a tack. “The CDC report doesn’t say anything about not getting vaxxed after getting COVID.” Then your very next sentence proceeds to tell us that you already found where it explicitly addresses this.
By now we see that being up to date with vaccination is better than not being vaccinated or being under vaccinated. The real issue, which the CDC does not seem concerned about, is the many millions of people disabled by symptoms and or damage even 12 months or more after infection, and even when that infection was mild, including children. It’s difficult to understand reducing precautions in this environment.
Excellent post. We continue to wonder about the lack of Focused Curiosity at the CDC.
We weren't losing 1000s of people, what was happening was a massive reclassification of death causes.
Suicides, Drownings, Motorcycle accidents, Cardiac arrest, Homicides were being reclassified as death from/with Convid
# Nolte: NY Times Reports Coronavirus Deaths Overcounted by 30% … on Paragraph 17
www.lewrockwell.com/political-theatre/nolte-ny-times-reports-coronavirus-deaths-overcounted-by-30-on-paragraph-17/
# Johns Hopkins Study Explodes COVID Death Hoax; It’s Re-Labeling on a Grand Scale
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/12/jon-rappoport/johns-hopkins-study-explodes-covid-death-hoax-its-re-labeling-on-a-grand-scale/
# In Colorado, They're Counting Gun Shot Fatalities as COVID Deaths
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2020/12/17/in-colorado-theyre-counting-gun-shot-fatalities-as-covid-deaths-n2581730
# Ontario (Canada) Admits Labelling Deaths As COVID When They’re Not A Result of COVID
www.lewrockwell.com/2020/12/no_author/ontario-canada-admits-labelling-deaths-as-covid-when-theyre-not-a-result-of-covid/
# In March, US Deaths from COVID-19 Totaled Less Than 2 Percent of All Deaths
www.lewrockwell.com/2020/04/ryan-mcmaken/in-march-us-deaths-from-covid-19-totaled-less-than-2-percent-of-all-deaths/
# Minnesota lawmakers say coronavirus deaths could be inflated by 40% after reviewing death certificates
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/coronavirus-death-certificates-minnesota-inflated
# Grand County Coroner Raises Concern On Deaths Among COVID Cases
https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/12/15/grand-county-covid-deaths/
# 'The numbers are skewed': Colorado officials warn of inflated COVID death statistics
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/numbers-are-skewed-colorado-officials-warn-inflated-covid-deaths
# Massive Pandemic Data Fraud Exposed: 40% of ‘Covid Deaths’ Were Fabricated
https://slaynews.com/news/global-pandemic-data-fraud-exposed-covid-deaths-fabricated/
# There Is No Pandemic
www.lewrockwell.com/2021/02/no_author/there-is-no-pandemic
So, your argument would be that there haven't been 1.2 million Covid deaths, but only 800,000? How does that make a difference? Does it absolve Covid as their cause of death? ...Of course not.
Are you taking the Stalin viewpoint that one death is a tragedy, one million deaths are just a statistic?
In fact despite errors and instances as you point out where deaths have been misclassifiedthere has been serious UNDERcounting of deaths. Most scientists indicate that Covid death reports represent *underestimates* because they failed to capture Covid deaths that were misclassified to other causes of death.
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2313661121
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanam/article/PIIS2667-193X(21)00011-9/fulltext
This article explains why this often happens:
https://eu.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/nation/2021/12/22/covid-deaths-obscured-inaccurate-death-certificates/8899157002/
"In Cape Girardeau County, Missouri, coroner Wavis Jordan said his office “doesn’t do COVID deaths.” Jordan does not investigate deaths himself. He requires families to provide proof of a positive coronavirus test before including it on a death certificate.
In 2021, he hasn’t pronounced a single person dead from COVID-19 in the 80,000-person county."
https://scored.co/c/NoNewNormal/p/17si9xgxfS/
Let wade through a few news reports of deaths and damages after the jab shall we ?
My argument is that "Covid" deaths pre vaccine were overcounted and vaccine induced deaths undercounted after its release.
Your argument is void. I've shown you evidence that deaths from Covid have been undercounted, and vaccine "deaths" are definitely overestimated, with any death following vaccination seemingly being counted by antivaxers as being a "vaccine death". Confirmed US deaths from vaccines number in double figures; deaths from Covid go into 6 figures.
Yup, 1.2 million people died from motorcycle accidents. LOL.
If you can find me validated examples of more than 10 exampes where a motorcycle crash was erroneously reported as a Covid death, I'll give you $1000.
Would the death certificate say this motorcycle accidental death was erroneously labeled as a covid death?
As far as I recall, one person in Florida who died in a motorcycle accident was supposedly certified as having Covid and may have been counted as a Covid death. That would be an attribution error by the administrator officially recording the causes of death, not an error on the death certificate as such if trauma from the accident was listed in Part 1 of the certificate.
# Nolte: NY Times Reports Coronavirus Deaths Overcounted by 30% … on Paragraph 17
www.lewrockwell.com/political-theatre/nolte-ny-times-reports-coronavirus-deaths-overcounted-by-30-on-paragraph-17/
# Johns Hopkins Study Explodes COVID Death Hoax; It’s Re-Labeling on a Grand Scale
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/12/jon-rappoport/johns-hopkins-study-explodes-covid-death-hoax-its-re-labeling-on-a-grand-scale/
# In Colorado, They're Counting Gun Shot Fatalities as COVID Deaths
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2020/12/17/in-colorado-theyre-counting-gun-shot-fatalities-as-covid-deaths-n2581730
# Ontario (Canada) Admits Labelling Deaths As COVID When They’re Not A Result of COVID
www.lewrockwell.com/2020/12/no_author/ontario-canada-admits-labelling-deaths-as-covid-when-theyre-not-a-result-of-covid/
# In March, US Deaths from COVID-19 Totaled Less Than 2 Percent of All Deaths
www.lewrockwell.com/2020/04/ryan-mcmaken/in-march-us-deaths-from-covid-19-totaled-less-than-2-percent-of-all-deaths/
# Minnesota lawmakers say coronavirus deaths could be inflated by 40% after reviewing death certificates
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/coronavirus-death-certificates-minnesota-inflated
# Grand County Coroner Raises Concern On Deaths Among COVID Cases
https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/12/15/grand-county-covid-deaths/
# 'The numbers are skewed': Colorado officials warn of inflated COVID death statistics
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/numbers-are-skewed-colorado-officials-warn-inflated-covid-deaths
# Massive Pandemic Data Fraud Exposed: 40% of ‘Covid Deaths’ Were Fabricated
https://slaynews.com/news/global-pandemic-data-fraud-exposed-covid-deaths-fabricated/
# There Is No Pandemic
www.lewrockwell.com/2021/02/no_author/there-is-no-pandemic
You've already spammed this screed of word salad in your above comment.
As I have pointed out, many deaths have been misclassified. There has been serious UNDERcounting of deaths. Most scientists indicate that Covid death reports represent *underestimates* because they failed to capture Covid deaths that were misclassified as deaths from other causes.
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2313661121
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanam/article/PIIS2667-193X(21)00011-9/fulltext
Elevated cycle threshold used(45) to capture presence of RNA particles, and then diagnose Covid as the problem,not confirmation of disease.
Almost anything will test PCR positive when run out to 45 cycles.
SARS-CoV-2 is diagnosed around a threshold of 28 to 30 cycles. Traces of RNA that emerge with extreme amplification are NOT regarded as indicative of active infection.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/12/jon-rappoport/florida-forcing-labs-to-report-number-of-pcr-test-cycles-game-changer/
https://www.flhealthsource.gov/files/Laboratory-Reporting-CT-Values-12032020.pdf
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html
This is when the tide turned ... we have Florida to thank for that. It was immediatley apparent that these PCR tests were being rigged to create FALSE positives and gin up the fear porn
As I've tried to explain to you...if cases are hugely overestimated because of "false positives", then that would make documented "Covid" a far less lethal disease than it really is.
So if you accept that there are loads of false positives, you also have to come around to the conclusion that Covid has a much higher fatality rate than people currently think.
But then logic isn't your strong point...you are the guy who thinks viruses don't exist.
>"Covid" a far less lethal disease than it really is.
Which is exactly what it is. 99.7% recovery rate. Its always been on par with the seasonal flu and the target remains the elderly and immune compromised. But this fact gets set aside by corporate shills like you.
>So if you accept that there are loads of false positives, you also have to come around to the conclusion that Covid has a much higher fatality rate than people currently think.
Do you think before you type out this crap?. Read that again. How does loads of FALSE positives (where everything from motor cycle accidents to homocides were labelled a Covid death) amount to a true high fatality FROM Covid? Are you demented?
>you are the guy who thinks viruses don't exist.
Just because many believe something doesnt make it true. Science isnt a popularity contest you moron.
Centuries ago all of learned scientific opinion accepted that the Sun revolves around the Earth. One man Galileo argued the opposite with proof.
Where are we NOW?
The point is that science isnt driven by concensus you corporate shill.
Well except your $$$cience
Yep
It doesn’t make sense immunologically. Antibodies always decline with a half life of 21 days once the pathogen has been cleared. The immune system depends almost entirely on memory B cells and T cells that will be reactivated when the pathogen is encountered again rather than antibodies. If antibodies didn’t reduce then our blood would be like sludge following a lifetime of infections.
Therefore the lack of antibodies is not a valid measure of the effectiveness of the immune system to a specific antigen. If there are antibodies for any length of time then surely that suggests a massive pathogen load or reinfection.
Gotta kill em off faster, I guess. They need their SS money for all the illegals they are running in?
Someone commented about Covid deaths being exaggerated. The first "authority" listed at their cited website was a man who denied that the AIDS virus causes AIDS and denied that global climate change is real. However, published studies have shown that Covid deaths have been UNDER reported. Here's a recent one:
"Official COVID-19 mortality statistics have not fully captured deaths attributable to SARS- CoV-2 infection in the United States." "This suggests that many excess deaths reported to non-COVID-19 natural causes during the first 30 mo of the pandemic in the United States were unrecognized COVID-19 deaths." source: Proceedings of the National Academy of Science December 6, 2023.
I find actual data from high-ranking scientific journals a bit more trust-worthy than AIDS deniers, even if they won a Nobel (for something entirely different).
Any science, or can you only find social media and internet propaganda drool?
Something often missing from these articles and discussions is long Covid. Because of Long Covid, the usefulness of the vaccines goes beyond merely preventing hospitalization and death. After reading several of Dr Offit's articles, hearing his interviews and lectures on the Web, and reading (and recommending) his books, I find it strange that long Covid has been largely a neglected topic.
For me (a retired biochemist in my 70s with multiple mRNA vaccinations and no known Covid infections), a pertinent comparison is this: What are the relative risks of long Covid between taking updated boosters every six months indefinitely versus no more shots. I assume that if something reduces my chances of Covid infection by even 40%, that will reduce my chances of long Covid by some appreciable amount. Unless I see contrary data disproving the effectiveness of boosters, I will probably take my eighth shot in a few months.
Why? Data matters. The data I've seen shows a modest reduction in Covid cases via boosters. And no Covid means no long Covid for me. Although no longer having 95% efficacy, they still help some. For some actual data on this, I suggest reading articles by epidemiologist Dr. Katelyn Jetelina, easily found by a Websearch for "Your Local Epidemiologist boosters."
Anecdotes are also useful (in context). After two bouts of Covid a family friend who was in great shape and an avid bicyclist now has trouble walking, had to give up driving, and has mental fog. A young science educator called "Physics Girl" developed long Covid and has been bedfast for a year. My wife's last Ph.D. student had heart problems lasting almost a year after a case of Covid. Long Covid is real and I see much less risk in avoiding it than avoiding boosters.
And even if you are boosted and despite that get Covid, the risk of getting long Covid is around 70% less than for an unvaccinated person.
Not true
You are correct, that’s not true.
I double checked and find that full vaccination with a booster dose is linked to a 73% reduction in long covid risk [not 70%].
https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/covid-vaccination-before-infection-strongly-linked-to-reduced-risk-of-developing-long-covid/
Yes you are right with the updated data
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2024/03/no_author/fear-campaign-resulting-from-totally-invalid-covid-19-confirmed-cases/
People Wake Up!!!
Being up to date with vaccination for a flu derivative with a 99.7% survival rate means
Myocarditis/Pericarditis/Facial Paralysis/Sudden death/etc
OK, so there is a 0.3% death rate from the infection, but there is only a 0.00001% death rate from the vaccine.
Can you do math?
https://www.openvaers.com/
There are over 2 million adverse events reported under Vaers (which for CONViD eclipses the combined reports since its very inception). And according to Former FDA chairman Dr Kessler - Vaers is severly underreported by 99%.
So you are looking at potentially 200Million adverse events ranging from myo/pericarditis to guillame barre' from facial paralysis to sudden death. Thats just a few of the 1,200+ adverse events Pfizer and Moderna owned up to.
Thats just some of the information the FDA wanted hidden for 55 years
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/health-law-and-business/why-a-judge-ordered-fda-to-release-covid-19-vaccine-data-pronto
Until a court order said otherwise
Can YOU do the math ?
Reports to VAERS do not imply causation. Many are merely reports that health care workers are obliged to identify...The CDC asks them to report ALL deaths in anyone who ever had vaccination. So you can get a VAERS report of a man who died of pneumonia 2 years after his vaccination, and it ends up as a VAERS report.
VAERS go to great lengths to explain this on their webpage and you have to tick a box stating you understand this before any access to their data.
Perhaps you can't read, as well as being unable to do math?
I ceased listening to the CDC/FDA/NIH/NIADS and assorted idiotic paid for pay "experts" 10 years ago with the birth of my first child. And haven't regretted it
It doesn’t make any sense for anyone to take these clot shots, regardless of age.
Funny you call thenm "clot shots", when the risk of VITT and serious clots is vanishingly rare frm the vaccines, but the risk of serious clotting caused by Covid itself is high.
One large study done in Sweden showed that infection with Covid increases the incidence of DVT by 5-fold, pulmonary embolus by 33-fold, and doubles the risk of serious bleeds.
https://www.bmj.com/content/377/bmj-2021-069590
Given that vaccines can prevent most serious covid complications, perhaps you had better change their name to the "Not-a clot shots".
Perhaps it's best for us to just let Darwin do his much-needed work. Occasionally, I ponder how high the Case Fatality Rate of the next pandemic would need to be for there to be a backlash against the anti-vax movement. My best guess is that it would take 40 or 50% CFE. Of course, even with that, there'd still be people not wanting to take the shots. In general, humans su*k at weighing relative risks. I saw a cute cartoon with three "cavemen" out on the savannah. Two of them were holding big spears. The third was complaining, "What? I'm not going to risk getting splinters in my hands. And I'm not going to worry about your so-called lion."
Meanwhile you could see the lion out in the tall grass smiling like the Cheshire cat.
Mike, something to consider is the aspect of religious belief. I have a friend with a Ph.D. in science who uses homeopathic remedies, and you couldn't convince my friend to take a Covid shot, even if you offered $10,000. Alternative medicine in the USA is basically a religion (homeopathy, reiki, therapeutic touch, etc.). It is something taken largely on faith, rather than on data. Those folks who haven't figured out that the plural of anecdote is not data. I'm going to suggest this faith aspect to YLE sometime. She does such a good job at providing evidence-based advice. Perhaps she could reach out to some cognitive psychologists for advice on her strategies. Note -- By religion, I don't just mean Christianity, etc. I mean, in general, the basing of decisions NOT on objective evidence, which is how things were done before the scientific revolution. Looking at the anti-vaccine movement as a religion puts it into a different perspective. Regardless of what non-evidence-based method one uses for rejecting modern medicine (my tent preacher said they're bad; my religion doesn't allow it; my naturopath says they're dangerous; Fox "news" told me they're bad; or my cousin is a nurse and her Facebook page told me all I need to know). Regards of which faith-based reasoning, rather than evidence-based reasoning method, the old adage applies: "You Cannot Reason People Out of Something They Were Not Reasoned Into." It would be as difficult as talking a fundamentalist out of their religion. Yes, perhaps it time to let Darwin and Co. add some chlorine to the gene pool, which just might happen with H5N1. Best wishes to you Mike S. By the way, if you haven't heard of him, there's a west coast M.D. that has a blog with lots of interesting stuff about CAM. Here's the ink: http://quackcast.com/spodcasts/page6.html A recent podcast of his is entitled, "Make Acupuncture Great Again." He also has a fun novel "Skeptics in the Pub: Cholera." And no, I'm not Mark, just a fan.
Yes, I’ve read Crislip’s contributions including the “Cholera” series through Science Based medicine. I’m also a fan.
Brilliant guy.
😎
Children should never have gotten it. 8/2021 Dr. Tracy Hoeg UC Irvine signals showing 4-6X increase in hospitalization from the vax vs. covid illness (166/million vaxxed 26/million covid illness)
It's amazing this is still being discussed 4 years since this SCAMdemic. Most sane people aren't buying this and the proof is Pfizer and Moderns plunging profits.
But the grift/beat goes on