This is just a pleasure to read, really. History, biology, intrigue, and decades of health surveillance to provide evidence based answers on risk/benefit. So much benefit. So many fewer lives ruined by polio.
Lawyers shouldn’t practice outside their lanes. Some might call that malpractice. And misleaders shouldn’t try to lead, best of intentions or not.
Please do continue to bring up and challenge the misguided vaccine statements that RFK Jr is using to attract voters. Everyone deserves to read the facts from an expert like you. RFK Jr’s followers are unfortunately impressed by someone they believe is an eloquent and knowledgeable man when the reality is that his eloquence keeps spitting out twisted and unfounded statements (he often cites references that are either wrong or that include data he failed to interpret). Thanks. Your piece is crystal clear!
RFK Jr. continues his carnival barker series of scare tactics re: vaccinations w/zero proof. Whether it’s Thimersol, mRNA or now SV40, every single anti-vaccination cause he’s celebrated has been debunked literally by millions of people benefiting from the tireless research by giants like Dr. Offit, Dr. Hotez, and all the others that made mass-vaccinations possible.
I’m so grateful to benefit from all the vaccinations I received because they’ve protected me from terrible diseases. Thank you, Dr. Offit!
The irony is RFK Jr himself, and all of his siblings, cousins, and grade school friends, probably received the Sabin “sugar cube”. Have any of them developed soft tissue cancer?
First off, where’s Paul’s evidence he does not receive any royalties from Pharma. He says his employer owns him and has the right to those patents. Ummm, it’s not that simple. And if he were to be publicly transparent on any data manipulation or false logic in research he would lose his job and any bonuses he makes. So therefore he is by definition a profiteer of the industry.
Second, the very fact that both of these “scientists” dismiss any need to test the vaccines against an inert saline injection are knowingly misrepresenting the safety of the vaccine products.
Third, I agree with most of the comments on the video. So many intelligent critics of this video. The most important, if you are certain your products are safe, then debate the professionals who say they are not. If u want a scientist because u believe a “lawyer” is not literate enough in science, then ask RFK to present a scientist to do that debate. His organization certainly has experts scientist they would be able to rationally critique Offit’s arguments.
All we want it to have the vaccines prove their safety at an undisputed level. At present they fail miserably.
1. Publicly revealing fraud would get him a medal etc, you are just making things up.
Bonus: the data from for-profit health insurance companies and national health care systems is so clear: vaccines are safe and effective.
2. Saline is NOT inert--that assertion fails 7th grade chemistry.
And just like all the other times this has been explained over and over for decades...the primary reason for the placebo is to control for the placebo effect--it is to measure efficacy.
Fact is that the anti-vacc keep lying about vaccine safety and generally don't even discuss the existence of most of the safety data.
3. Giving a grifter a large audience to scam is irrational and immoral.
Fact is that RFK jr refuses to make his claims in Court under oath because he knows that his ~all his claims are complete BS.
Fact is numerous examples have been posted here where all it takes is 5 grade reading skills to see that RFJ jr is obviously lying about his references...and some of these lies have been traced back over a decade.
Fox and the rest of the Trump friendly media circus seem to be encouraging RFK to (a) try and damage Biden and (b) give them more grifting ammunition as they continue to take the gullible for a ride.
Can you point me to any instance in which they admit their errors? I’ve yet to find one. Long ago Jonathan Swift wrote: Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired.
Anti-vax is a faith-based enterprise.
1,100,000 dead in the US and counting. It’s a massive tragedy. And I know many people who now view vaccines with fear.
Vaccines don't work, never have, never will! Sanatation, preventing industrial waste from polluting all the eco systems and the science of strengthening the immune system, is the real medicine. Really, nowhere to be found. Vaccines like all unnatural contrived drugs, mimicking off of nature, are for patenting, reinterpreting and remodelling, existence. The tyrannists art/science. The means to enter and control godhood and the state under it, by entering and controlling the body (people and planetary body), dynamisms.
Vaccines and other contrived patented drugs, pollutes the body, like the planet has been polluted by industrial science's toxic wastes. Which is the main cause of body, environmental and climate, degradation.
That's the prime reason to stop Vaccinations. People do and don't want communist Jesus and communis Marx. Socrates' critical/scaring reason and balancing act being harder and harder to solace and maintain. But the new vaccines (and contrived drugs in general) communist Tyranny, is so lopsidedly perverse there's no choice any more.
It's communism, now of a Marx communist dominating type, by other means, (medical perversity tyranny communism) that will far surpass communist china's tyranny process death toll (80 million people) in achieving the WHO Pandemic Treaty, medical tyranny communist control of the planet (8 billion). Further it wants to create/turn people into medical interface zoo animals, in controlled 15 minutes extent, so called smart cities, gages. The zoo controllers being 1% of the population. The population being reduced from 8.5 billion to 500,000.
What a ShiiiitShow god and existence is turning out to be. The after life has the good sense to seperate Marxists and Jesusists, communists, of so called hell and heaven. Socrates critical/scaring reason, and balancing act between them, is no where to be found there apparently, anymore. It's a very suspect, scientifically mess making and morally questionable, god now? Or infinity condition, if can no longer believe in a god condition, anymore
Is that you Keanna Reaves? Loved Constantine, the movie. You are the new Gary Cooper of acting ! Saying few words, walking deftly and carrying a big stick or gun. Keep it going !
I appreciate your Substack writing, and I have read two of your books. If I know you’ll be on a podcast or interview, I tune in. I am a retired teacher, not a medical professional so forgive me if my question sounds ignorant or uninformed, but I simply have not heard any discussion of the importance of the delivery system of vaccines as you have highlighted in this post. I think some in the public are not so much anti-VAX as they are skeptical of the mRNA delivery system of the Pfizer and Moderna Vaccines. Are you and other doctors, researchers, and drug developers completely sure that there are no deleterious effects from the mRNA vaccine delivery? Is there any ongoing research? I have seen some commentary on autopsy reports but no large scale study or expert analysis. I am fearful that if the medical experts don’t examine the issue and prove to the public that there are no safety issues beyond what we normally see with other vaccines and treatments, that the next pandemic will be even more chaotic than this one. We need rational discussion. I wish Lex would invite you on his podcast to respond to his listeners. I don’t think we need to re-hash polio, but the burden of proof of safety and efficacy of the Covid vaccines, at this point, really is on the researchers. The current vaccines did the best they could, but maybe another type of vaccine delivery is even better.
I have to agree with you Bridget regarding the MRNA vaccines. I have found what Paul has written here helpful, not that I have listened to the JFK speaking about polio. I find it difficult following both sides. I wish there would be discussion between and together, not calls for debate. Each side always points out where the other is wrong, no one acknowledges or concedes the other has a point or when something is correct, or if it is worthy of concern. Just because a person is wrong on one point, does not mean everything is wrong. There have been any number of points that have turned out be incorrect in regard to the vaccines, told to us by government and health officials. I have lost trust. Being in Australia and locked down we were pretty much vaccinated before covid moved through the population. We were not allowed out or back to work unless we were vaccinated. My mum, a friends son and two people my other friend knew all got myocarditis. It was so normalised here that no one suggested my mother go for treatment or tests. Oh it’s just a side effect. After the third, within two hours, her heart rate was at 148 beats per minute. Months later I put on a fuss and told her to insist on tests from her Dr. They found nothing but she was breathless and she was told she may just have to live with it, it was just a side effect of the vaccine. Two weeks later she had heart failure. After that she was told, oh it may be just a coincidence and not the vaccine at all. I don’t understand how it can be the vaccine before heart failure and then not after. There was not any offer of we can do a test to see if it was the vaccine, not sure if there actually is one that can be done other than a post-mortem. Thanks to the amazing Doctors and nursing staff she survived, but she is on medication for life and it has changed her health forever. I remember listening to Paul express he was not going to get a booster as he could see no benefit. I decided I didn’t want to be boosted either, by the time I was due for the third all the people at my work who had two or three injections had got covid so it was pretty clear the you won’t get it or pass it on was incorrect. Despite this and not being in a health position I was told have the third or do not come to work Monday. Now the vaccinated are more likely to get Covid. Since when has a vaccine made us more susceptible to getting a virus? The general public do not have to be listening to vaccine skeptics to have lost faith in these vaccines. They could be just like me, looking around at everyone getting it and injured family or friends and drawing their own conclusions.
I feel like there are several points that need to be addressed. First, a debate between someone like Paul and RFK Jr. would be pointless. RFK Jr. doesn't use fact in the same manner Paul, or anyone else with credibility in medicine does. Kennedy would make fanciful claims and dare Paul to refute them, which wouldn't be possible because they're decoupled from reality. Similarly, a discussion would simply turn into a speech with no possible refutation. It's virtually impossible to refute impossible fallacies.
As for "any number of points that have turned out to be incorrect in regard to the vaccines", you'd have to be specific. The mRNA vaccines outperformed what we had initially hoped they might do, by actually providing a significant benefit against the ancestral strains of SARS-CoV-2. At the time of vaccine development, which started in mid-January 2020, we had an example of exactly one clade, with no divergent variants. Against the ancestral strain virus, those vaccines exceeded the wildest dreams of the medical professionals, and because they were developed in record time, we considered them close to miraculous. Lest you claim the Phase 2/3 trials were rushed, most, nearly all vaccines are NOT tested in the midst of a pandemic. The number of cases that occurred in the control group was sufficient to drive the study to completion more rapidly than we were usually able to make happen. And, the number of adverse effects and their severity were within the realm of what's consistent with other vaccine studies. Those studies were also of adequate size to provide confidence in safety and efficacy based on traditional study design. Corners were not cut, sizes not reduced. The dynamic nature of the pandemic drove the study to conclusion. Period.
You cite a litany of friends and family who had an episode of myocarditis, and subsequent heart failure in your mother. Of all the patients I've seen, and when I include my cohort of friends and family, and in fact when I extend that to a rather large volunteer organization I support, you've listed more adverse effect, of a single type, than the total number of adverse effects outside of fatigue and muscle soreness, both about a day in duration, from all the vaccine administrations I'm aware of. What we do know is that myocarditis is more prevalent after the second dose of the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer or Moderna) predominantly in young males age 14-25. While there have been several deaths, the vast majority recover in several days without follow-on problems. The incidence and severity of myocarditis in unvaccinated persons who are infected with SARS-CoV-2 is demonstrably, and statistically significantly higher.
I am sorry to hear your mother's plight. That said, tachycardia (rapid heart rate) as an initial sign suggests another issue, and the list is long. In most cases, your mother would have been evaluated fully for the rapid heart rate and had that treated. COVID, and the strains it placed on the healthcare communities across the world, saw that paradign overwhelmed. She should have been treated differently, unless they had established the cause was something besides an organic cardiac condition. I've seen no indications that vaccines were associated with that particular condition. Heart failure in the face of a prolonged tachycardia is not terribly uncommon but usually suggests there's other pathology in the heart. I will point out that COVID infection has shown some serious adverse cardiac effects, as well as effects on other organs. There have been a couple of studies suggesting infiltration of mRNA compounds themselves into cardiac tissue but these have not been satisfactorily reproduced, and as such remain remote possibilities.
Paul and I differ in our thoughts on the booster. I intend to get the monovalent omicron-based booster this fall. I personally anticipate another uptick in infections in the US, and any benefit I might derive from a booster will be beneficial. Because I've also been infected, the first time was in July 2020, subsequent times were post vaccination, but long enough after that any vaccine-derived immunity was on its way down, I have what's known as hybrid immune response. It's generally thought that the hybrid immunity (both vaccine and infection-derived immunity) better protects one from either subsequent infection and I intend to leverage this to my advantage. That said, it's one thing for Paul or for me to make an informed decision on whether to receive another shot or not. For someone not in the profession, it makes more sense to discuss this with your primary doctor in sufficient depth to make an informed decision.
In late 2020 and early 2021, as the vaccines were first coming out, there were unfortunate statements made, both by people who should have known better, and by people with no real standing in the medical community, that vaccination would prevent one from getting infected, and in fact there was some evidence that the degree of success in that regard was very high, but only for the ancestral strain of the virus. By then we had already begun identifying variants with a hallmark of immune evasion. In point of fact, in the process of research and development of the vaccines, the goal was a 50% reduction in hospitalization, severe illness and death, which we hoped would provide the breathing room to develop better therapeutics. That we were seeing efficacies for the aforementioned endpoints in the 90%-plus range was beyond our hopes and dreams.
No one credible promised a vaccine that really would prevent transmission. There are too many factors to make that claim directly. Instead, we continue to focus on prevention of hospitalization, severe illness and death. And, of late, with evidence that those who are vaccinated are much less likely to manifest Long COVID, there's another reason to recommend vaccination.
Unfortunately, it sounds suspiciously like you've gotten a lot of information from questionable sources rather than restricting your knowledge acquisition from well-known, professional and trusted sources. And to be honest, I know of a couple of those who are actually charlatans. Physicians who know better yet spew disinformation, although we don't have a clue as to their motives.
"I think some in the public are not so much anti-VAX as they are skeptical of the mRNA delivery system of the Pfizer and Moderna Vaccines. Are you and other doctors, researchers, and drug developers completely sure that there are no deleterious effects from the mRNA vaccine delivery? "
Some people are skeptical of all advances. The relevant question is what does the data say?
Also, no medical treatment is completely void of any deleterious effects--that is just not possible.
A better way to phrase my question would be, is the new delivery system safer, the same or less safe than other standard delivery systems. It goes without saying that nothing is completely 100% safe for everyone. And to your point, what does the data say. My issue is we are not hearing what the data says.
The data suggests that mRNA is indeed safe and it could open a whole new chapter of vaccine research. The key issue is IP and specialized mfg chains that limit the number and types of companies / institutions that can make / study / commercialize mRNA-based vaccines.
This process is not nearly as easily replicated as injecting eggs and purifying the results for human use. It’s a big chain of interlocking IP that will be hard to break unless the government asserts its ownership rights more aggressively as part of the initial funding that allowed Moderna and others to start their business.
“In honesty they never were the saviors that they are claimed to be. It has been shown that vaccines did not account for the massive drop in historical deaths from infectious diseases ( except small pox).”
Mortality is the WRONG measure. If after one second of thought, you honestly can't understand that simple fact, then you need a new hobby.”
Did you give me any evidence that vaccines have saved lives? Not propaganda. Actual studies.....
In total, these studies indicate that ethylmercury-containing compounds and Thimerosal readily cross the BBB, convert, for the most part, to highly toxic inorganic mercury-containing compounds, which significantly and persistently bind to tissues in the brain, even in the absence of concurrent detectable blood mercury levels.
You are referencing the guy repeatedly characterized by courts as a for profit liar, whose "work" has been banned from Court because he is a proven liar and fraud.
And the guy that lost his medical licenses because he scamming parents out of many $1000 per month by chemically castrating their sons to "cure their autism".
I guess Webster might not be the best source for scientific definitions of toxic:
Toxic actions of Al induce oxidative stress, immunologic alterations, genotoxicity, pro-inflammatory effect, peptide denaturation or transformation, enzymatic dysfunction, metabolic derangement, amyloidogenesis, membrane perturbation, iron dyshomeostasis, apoptosis, necrosis and dysplasia. The pathological conditions associated with Al toxicosis are desquamative interstitial pneumonia, pulmonary alveolar proteinosis, granulomas, granulomatosis and fibrosis, toxic myocarditis, thrombosis and ischemic stroke, granulomatous enteritis, Crohn’s disease, inflammatory bowel diseases, anemia, Alzheimer’s disease, dementia, sclerosis, autism, macrophagic myofasciitis, osteomalacia, oligospermia and infertility, hepatorenal disease, breast cancer and cyst, pancreatitis, pancreatic necrosis and diabetes mellitus. The review provides a broad overview of Al toxicosis as a background for sustained investigations of the toxicology of Al compounds of public health importance.
This is an excellent history of poliovirus vaccine and SV40. Appropriate call for RFK Jr to retract his false statements
This is just a pleasure to read, really. History, biology, intrigue, and decades of health surveillance to provide evidence based answers on risk/benefit. So much benefit. So many fewer lives ruined by polio.
Lawyers shouldn’t practice outside their lanes. Some might call that malpractice. And misleaders shouldn’t try to lead, best of intentions or not.
Please do continue to bring up and challenge the misguided vaccine statements that RFK Jr is using to attract voters. Everyone deserves to read the facts from an expert like you. RFK Jr’s followers are unfortunately impressed by someone they believe is an eloquent and knowledgeable man when the reality is that his eloquence keeps spitting out twisted and unfounded statements (he often cites references that are either wrong or that include data he failed to interpret). Thanks. Your piece is crystal clear!
RFK Jr. continues his carnival barker series of scare tactics re: vaccinations w/zero proof. Whether it’s Thimersol, mRNA or now SV40, every single anti-vaccination cause he’s celebrated has been debunked literally by millions of people benefiting from the tireless research by giants like Dr. Offit, Dr. Hotez, and all the others that made mass-vaccinations possible.
I’m so grateful to benefit from all the vaccinations I received because they’ve protected me from terrible diseases. Thank you, Dr. Offit!
The irony is RFK Jr himself, and all of his siblings, cousins, and grade school friends, probably received the Sabin “sugar cube”. Have any of them developed soft tissue cancer?
Fact is the RFK jr has had social events at this private residence...and guess what? He required everyone that attended to be vaccinated.
I think he knows the truth...he just makes too much money from lies.
I think to myself, people who are so anti-vaccine, are probably alive because of a vaccine.
First off, where’s Paul’s evidence he does not receive any royalties from Pharma. He says his employer owns him and has the right to those patents. Ummm, it’s not that simple. And if he were to be publicly transparent on any data manipulation or false logic in research he would lose his job and any bonuses he makes. So therefore he is by definition a profiteer of the industry.
Second, the very fact that both of these “scientists” dismiss any need to test the vaccines against an inert saline injection are knowingly misrepresenting the safety of the vaccine products.
Third, I agree with most of the comments on the video. So many intelligent critics of this video. The most important, if you are certain your products are safe, then debate the professionals who say they are not. If u want a scientist because u believe a “lawyer” is not literate enough in science, then ask RFK to present a scientist to do that debate. His organization certainly has experts scientist they would be able to rationally critique Offit’s arguments.
All we want it to have the vaccines prove their safety at an undisputed level. At present they fail miserably.
1. Publicly revealing fraud would get him a medal etc, you are just making things up.
Bonus: the data from for-profit health insurance companies and national health care systems is so clear: vaccines are safe and effective.
2. Saline is NOT inert--that assertion fails 7th grade chemistry.
And just like all the other times this has been explained over and over for decades...the primary reason for the placebo is to control for the placebo effect--it is to measure efficacy.
Fact is that the anti-vacc keep lying about vaccine safety and generally don't even discuss the existence of most of the safety data.
3. Giving a grifter a large audience to scam is irrational and immoral.
Fact is that RFK jr refuses to make his claims in Court under oath because he knows that his ~all his claims are complete BS.
Fact is numerous examples have been posted here where all it takes is 5 grade reading skills to see that RFJ jr is obviously lying about his references...and some of these lies have been traced back over a decade.
Fox and the rest of the Trump friendly media circus seem to be encouraging RFK to (a) try and damage Biden and (b) give them more grifting ammunition as they continue to take the gullible for a ride.
Like many antivaxxers, RFK Jr. lies, whether deliberately I do not know. But he will not admit his lies. Antivaxxers seldom do
Can you point me to any instance in which they admit their errors? I’ve yet to find one. Long ago Jonathan Swift wrote: Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired.
Anti-vax is a faith-based enterprise.
1,100,000 dead in the US and counting. It’s a massive tragedy. And I know many people who now view vaccines with fear.
I'm sorry? I was comdemning antivaxxers not praising them.
Thank you so much for writing these and for all of your hard work educating me and the public. I appreciate you.
Vaccines don't work, never have, never will! Sanatation, preventing industrial waste from polluting all the eco systems and the science of strengthening the immune system, is the real medicine. Really, nowhere to be found. Vaccines like all unnatural contrived drugs, mimicking off of nature, are for patenting, reinterpreting and remodelling, existence. The tyrannists art/science. The means to enter and control godhood and the state under it, by entering and controlling the body (people and planetary body), dynamisms.
Vaccines and other contrived patented drugs, pollutes the body, like the planet has been polluted by industrial science's toxic wastes. Which is the main cause of body, environmental and climate, degradation.
That's the prime reason to stop Vaccinations. People do and don't want communist Jesus and communis Marx. Socrates' critical/scaring reason and balancing act being harder and harder to solace and maintain. But the new vaccines (and contrived drugs in general) communist Tyranny, is so lopsidedly perverse there's no choice any more.
It's communism, now of a Marx communist dominating type, by other means, (medical perversity tyranny communism) that will far surpass communist china's tyranny process death toll (80 million people) in achieving the WHO Pandemic Treaty, medical tyranny communist control of the planet (8 billion). Further it wants to create/turn people into medical interface zoo animals, in controlled 15 minutes extent, so called smart cities, gages. The zoo controllers being 1% of the population. The population being reduced from 8.5 billion to 500,000.
What a ShiiiitShow god and existence is turning out to be. The after life has the good sense to seperate Marxists and Jesusists, communists, of so called hell and heaven. Socrates critical/scaring reason, and balancing act between them, is no where to be found there apparently, anymore. It's a very suspect, scientifically mess making and morally questionable, god now? Or infinity condition, if can no longer believe in a god condition, anymore
Please get help.
Is that you Keanna Reaves? Loved Constantine, the movie. You are the new Gary Cooper of acting ! Saying few words, walking deftly and carrying a big stick or gun. Keep it going !
"Vaccines don't work, never have, never will!"
Or you could use your basic math and thinking skills to see how stupid the anti-vacc fraud is.
Silence....but what could you say?
Beyond the fact that no one that can count could believe your assertion.
I appreciate your Substack writing, and I have read two of your books. If I know you’ll be on a podcast or interview, I tune in. I am a retired teacher, not a medical professional so forgive me if my question sounds ignorant or uninformed, but I simply have not heard any discussion of the importance of the delivery system of vaccines as you have highlighted in this post. I think some in the public are not so much anti-VAX as they are skeptical of the mRNA delivery system of the Pfizer and Moderna Vaccines. Are you and other doctors, researchers, and drug developers completely sure that there are no deleterious effects from the mRNA vaccine delivery? Is there any ongoing research? I have seen some commentary on autopsy reports but no large scale study or expert analysis. I am fearful that if the medical experts don’t examine the issue and prove to the public that there are no safety issues beyond what we normally see with other vaccines and treatments, that the next pandemic will be even more chaotic than this one. We need rational discussion. I wish Lex would invite you on his podcast to respond to his listeners. I don’t think we need to re-hash polio, but the burden of proof of safety and efficacy of the Covid vaccines, at this point, really is on the researchers. The current vaccines did the best they could, but maybe another type of vaccine delivery is even better.
I have to agree with you Bridget regarding the MRNA vaccines. I have found what Paul has written here helpful, not that I have listened to the JFK speaking about polio. I find it difficult following both sides. I wish there would be discussion between and together, not calls for debate. Each side always points out where the other is wrong, no one acknowledges or concedes the other has a point or when something is correct, or if it is worthy of concern. Just because a person is wrong on one point, does not mean everything is wrong. There have been any number of points that have turned out be incorrect in regard to the vaccines, told to us by government and health officials. I have lost trust. Being in Australia and locked down we were pretty much vaccinated before covid moved through the population. We were not allowed out or back to work unless we were vaccinated. My mum, a friends son and two people my other friend knew all got myocarditis. It was so normalised here that no one suggested my mother go for treatment or tests. Oh it’s just a side effect. After the third, within two hours, her heart rate was at 148 beats per minute. Months later I put on a fuss and told her to insist on tests from her Dr. They found nothing but she was breathless and she was told she may just have to live with it, it was just a side effect of the vaccine. Two weeks later she had heart failure. After that she was told, oh it may be just a coincidence and not the vaccine at all. I don’t understand how it can be the vaccine before heart failure and then not after. There was not any offer of we can do a test to see if it was the vaccine, not sure if there actually is one that can be done other than a post-mortem. Thanks to the amazing Doctors and nursing staff she survived, but she is on medication for life and it has changed her health forever. I remember listening to Paul express he was not going to get a booster as he could see no benefit. I decided I didn’t want to be boosted either, by the time I was due for the third all the people at my work who had two or three injections had got covid so it was pretty clear the you won’t get it or pass it on was incorrect. Despite this and not being in a health position I was told have the third or do not come to work Monday. Now the vaccinated are more likely to get Covid. Since when has a vaccine made us more susceptible to getting a virus? The general public do not have to be listening to vaccine skeptics to have lost faith in these vaccines. They could be just like me, looking around at everyone getting it and injured family or friends and drawing their own conclusions.
I feel like there are several points that need to be addressed. First, a debate between someone like Paul and RFK Jr. would be pointless. RFK Jr. doesn't use fact in the same manner Paul, or anyone else with credibility in medicine does. Kennedy would make fanciful claims and dare Paul to refute them, which wouldn't be possible because they're decoupled from reality. Similarly, a discussion would simply turn into a speech with no possible refutation. It's virtually impossible to refute impossible fallacies.
As for "any number of points that have turned out to be incorrect in regard to the vaccines", you'd have to be specific. The mRNA vaccines outperformed what we had initially hoped they might do, by actually providing a significant benefit against the ancestral strains of SARS-CoV-2. At the time of vaccine development, which started in mid-January 2020, we had an example of exactly one clade, with no divergent variants. Against the ancestral strain virus, those vaccines exceeded the wildest dreams of the medical professionals, and because they were developed in record time, we considered them close to miraculous. Lest you claim the Phase 2/3 trials were rushed, most, nearly all vaccines are NOT tested in the midst of a pandemic. The number of cases that occurred in the control group was sufficient to drive the study to completion more rapidly than we were usually able to make happen. And, the number of adverse effects and their severity were within the realm of what's consistent with other vaccine studies. Those studies were also of adequate size to provide confidence in safety and efficacy based on traditional study design. Corners were not cut, sizes not reduced. The dynamic nature of the pandemic drove the study to conclusion. Period.
You cite a litany of friends and family who had an episode of myocarditis, and subsequent heart failure in your mother. Of all the patients I've seen, and when I include my cohort of friends and family, and in fact when I extend that to a rather large volunteer organization I support, you've listed more adverse effect, of a single type, than the total number of adverse effects outside of fatigue and muscle soreness, both about a day in duration, from all the vaccine administrations I'm aware of. What we do know is that myocarditis is more prevalent after the second dose of the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer or Moderna) predominantly in young males age 14-25. While there have been several deaths, the vast majority recover in several days without follow-on problems. The incidence and severity of myocarditis in unvaccinated persons who are infected with SARS-CoV-2 is demonstrably, and statistically significantly higher.
I am sorry to hear your mother's plight. That said, tachycardia (rapid heart rate) as an initial sign suggests another issue, and the list is long. In most cases, your mother would have been evaluated fully for the rapid heart rate and had that treated. COVID, and the strains it placed on the healthcare communities across the world, saw that paradign overwhelmed. She should have been treated differently, unless they had established the cause was something besides an organic cardiac condition. I've seen no indications that vaccines were associated with that particular condition. Heart failure in the face of a prolonged tachycardia is not terribly uncommon but usually suggests there's other pathology in the heart. I will point out that COVID infection has shown some serious adverse cardiac effects, as well as effects on other organs. There have been a couple of studies suggesting infiltration of mRNA compounds themselves into cardiac tissue but these have not been satisfactorily reproduced, and as such remain remote possibilities.
Paul and I differ in our thoughts on the booster. I intend to get the monovalent omicron-based booster this fall. I personally anticipate another uptick in infections in the US, and any benefit I might derive from a booster will be beneficial. Because I've also been infected, the first time was in July 2020, subsequent times were post vaccination, but long enough after that any vaccine-derived immunity was on its way down, I have what's known as hybrid immune response. It's generally thought that the hybrid immunity (both vaccine and infection-derived immunity) better protects one from either subsequent infection and I intend to leverage this to my advantage. That said, it's one thing for Paul or for me to make an informed decision on whether to receive another shot or not. For someone not in the profession, it makes more sense to discuss this with your primary doctor in sufficient depth to make an informed decision.
In late 2020 and early 2021, as the vaccines were first coming out, there were unfortunate statements made, both by people who should have known better, and by people with no real standing in the medical community, that vaccination would prevent one from getting infected, and in fact there was some evidence that the degree of success in that regard was very high, but only for the ancestral strain of the virus. By then we had already begun identifying variants with a hallmark of immune evasion. In point of fact, in the process of research and development of the vaccines, the goal was a 50% reduction in hospitalization, severe illness and death, which we hoped would provide the breathing room to develop better therapeutics. That we were seeing efficacies for the aforementioned endpoints in the 90%-plus range was beyond our hopes and dreams.
No one credible promised a vaccine that really would prevent transmission. There are too many factors to make that claim directly. Instead, we continue to focus on prevention of hospitalization, severe illness and death. And, of late, with evidence that those who are vaccinated are much less likely to manifest Long COVID, there's another reason to recommend vaccination.
Unfortunately, it sounds suspiciously like you've gotten a lot of information from questionable sources rather than restricting your knowledge acquisition from well-known, professional and trusted sources. And to be honest, I know of a couple of those who are actually charlatans. Physicians who know better yet spew disinformation, although we don't have a clue as to their motives.
Thanks for taking the time to write this informative note.
"I think some in the public are not so much anti-VAX as they are skeptical of the mRNA delivery system of the Pfizer and Moderna Vaccines. Are you and other doctors, researchers, and drug developers completely sure that there are no deleterious effects from the mRNA vaccine delivery? "
Some people are skeptical of all advances. The relevant question is what does the data say?
Also, no medical treatment is completely void of any deleterious effects--that is just not possible.
A better way to phrase my question would be, is the new delivery system safer, the same or less safe than other standard delivery systems. It goes without saying that nothing is completely 100% safe for everyone. And to your point, what does the data say. My issue is we are not hearing what the data says.
"A better way to phrase my question would be, is the new delivery system safer, the same or less safe than other standard delivery systems."
That could be an interesting academic question.
However, we were in a pandemic, with a novel virus, and no vaccines based on "standard delivery systems".
Thus we are left with asking are the mRNA vaccines safe and effective?
The answer is yes, and you can find this data from the trials, from life insurance companies, and from health insurance companies and systems.
The data suggests that mRNA is indeed safe and it could open a whole new chapter of vaccine research. The key issue is IP and specialized mfg chains that limit the number and types of companies / institutions that can make / study / commercialize mRNA-based vaccines.
This process is not nearly as easily replicated as injecting eggs and purifying the results for human use. It’s a big chain of interlocking IP that will be hard to break unless the government asserts its ownership rights more aggressively as part of the initial funding that allowed Moderna and others to start their business.
Would anyone like to explain to Albus that belittling and name calling are not scientific arguments. Sorry, I am done with my proof.
What you have clearly proven is that the anti-vacc lies are so stupid you literally have to refuse to read the words and see the facts.
You argue....
“In honesty they never were the saviors that they are claimed to be. It has been shown that vaccines did not account for the massive drop in historical deaths from infectious diseases ( except small pox).”
Mortality is the WRONG measure. If after one second of thought, you honestly can't understand that simple fact, then you need a new hobby.”
Did you give me any evidence that vaccines have saved lives? Not propaganda. Actual studies.....
Again you changed the topic.
Can you really, really just not see how stupid it is to look at the mortality data?
Ooops... it looks like Merriam is wrong again....
In total, these studies indicate that ethylmercury-containing compounds and Thimerosal readily cross the BBB, convert, for the most part, to highly toxic inorganic mercury-containing compounds, which significantly and persistently bind to tissues in the brain, even in the absence of concurrent detectable blood mercury levels.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1382668919301875
Ooops indeed!
You are referencing the guy repeatedly characterized by courts as a for profit liar, whose "work" has been banned from Court because he is a proven liar and fraud.
And the guy that lost his medical licenses because he scamming parents out of many $1000 per month by chemically castrating their sons to "cure their autism".
Are you trying to make the anti-vaccs look silly?
I guess Webster might not be the best source for scientific definitions of toxic:
Toxic actions of Al induce oxidative stress, immunologic alterations, genotoxicity, pro-inflammatory effect, peptide denaturation or transformation, enzymatic dysfunction, metabolic derangement, amyloidogenesis, membrane perturbation, iron dyshomeostasis, apoptosis, necrosis and dysplasia. The pathological conditions associated with Al toxicosis are desquamative interstitial pneumonia, pulmonary alveolar proteinosis, granulomas, granulomatosis and fibrosis, toxic myocarditis, thrombosis and ischemic stroke, granulomatous enteritis, Crohn’s disease, inflammatory bowel diseases, anemia, Alzheimer’s disease, dementia, sclerosis, autism, macrophagic myofasciitis, osteomalacia, oligospermia and infertility, hepatorenal disease, breast cancer and cyst, pancreatitis, pancreatic necrosis and diabetes mellitus. The review provides a broad overview of Al toxicosis as a background for sustained investigations of the toxicology of Al compounds of public health importance.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7071840/
Sigh....words matter.
Your subject was toxins in vaccines. Already proven that that is just an old stupid lie.
Toxic is a different word...a different topic.
Clearly you won't listen to actual scientists about how we know there is nothing toxic in vaccines.
But seriously Bill--can you really not read or count? Read the molecules tested and the amounts needed to be toxic in your link.
It is literally impossible to be able to count and not see your error.