Would be interesting if you would actually accept to have a conversation about this so you both could be clear on what you believe- But I think you never accept the request. Wonder why
Dr. Offit has made it abundantly clear what he knows to be true, based on the best available scientific evidence. Why waste time having a "conversation" about it?
Another trump administration, another failure to address a serious public health issue. RFK Jr said: <[The best] approach to public health is to boost individual immune responses.”> That is exactly what a vaccine does—safely, quickly and effectively. Nutrition and hygiene important, but to get rapid protection—VACCINATE!
Kennedy was right to stress the importance of good nutrition in overcoming measles. But hygiene has little to do with measles, but rather is crucial for preventing fecal-borne diseases like polio and hep-A. Respiratory diseases like measles are borne on the air, and if you are nearby and breathe, you will probably get it. The measles virus, like the pertussis pathogen, evolved to become milder over time. Every community had mechanisms in place which primed children with non-specific immunity before they got measles, which then gave them specigic immunity.
<<The measles virus, like the pertussis pathogen, evolved to become milder over time. Every community had mechanisms in place which primed children with non-specific immunity before they got measles, which then gave them specigic immunity.>>
"Kennedy was right to stress the importance of good nutrition in overcoming measles"
Nope, in the US good nutrition is a minor factor in the treament of meales and plays no role in prevention. The measles vaccine is at least 97% effective in preventing measles infection. And it does not cause autism. That is a lie.
"The measles virus, like the pertussis pathogen, evolved to become milder over time. "
Nope. The community is just less susceptible because of widespread vaccination despite the despicable efforts of arseholes like this poster who advocates for a return of the deaths of 300-500 children every year from measles.
"Every community had mechanisms in place which primed children non-specific immunity before they got measles, which then gave them specific immunity.
That is a lie. Measles vaccination is 97% effective. Nothing else comes even remotely close to that in the US where the rate of vitamin A deficiency is about 0.3%.
In 1960 in the US, 99% of children had measles by the age of 18. Three to four million cases a year, 450 deaths. Centuries of universal measles produced both specific and non-specific immunity. Normal immune systems produced healthy adults.
This poster is clearly telling you that the death of 450 children a year from measles do not matter if those who survive are healthy. This exposes this disgusting poster as both a eugenicists and liar.
The remaining 450 annual deaths prior to the 1963 roll out were concentrated in the malnourished in the Mississippi delta. Those kids given proper hygiene and diets would likely have been saved. But instead a vaccine only mentality has possibly resulted in high chronic disease rates, the vaxx verse unvaxxed studies will help understand what trade off were made from mass vaccination.
They were unfortunately unwell kids, looking after their nutrition and sanitation saved them more than measles shots. You guys need to look into this stuff.
Have you got a breakdown of the measles deaths prevaccine (before 1963)? Have you anything at all that confirms the 450-500 deaths each year were in malnourished kids in Mississippi? Or are you just whistling Dixie?
Mike, I haven’t found the source of the Mississippi claim, I may have that wrong, a vitamin A deficiency would have been more accurate, which is present in 90%+ of measles deaths. The WHO recommends high dose vitamin A (50,000-200,000 IU) should be used in the treatment of measles in two consecutive days if someone is deficient.
But maybe you would read this short article from 1962 on the status or significance of measles as a disease of concern from the mindset of doctors at that time right before the introduction of the vaccine.
You will see that their mindset is that it really is no longer a concern but if we can get rid of it (in the context that they knew a vaccine was coming) we may as well. But they made that determination in the context that one, the vaccine was going to eradicate the disease, and two, that it would be without risk, neither of which panned out. At that time it was believed that the coming vaccine was going to mimic natural infection, be a one and done shot without the downside of a rash or fever or complications from natural measles infection even though they were rare. Essentially it was believed there was going to be zero downside from the vaccine, everything was a plus, but again the vaccine did not deliver as promised or as anticipated. It would be interesting what the doctors’ position on the matter would have been if they were asked what if the vaccine will never be able to eradicate the disease, that immunity would wane, and that adverse events and complication from the vaccine would occur?
The paragraph stating that the common cold is of more concern than measles is telling. They state this in the context that just because measles is even less of a concern than the common cold we should still eliminate measles if we can.
With the passage of time and memory phamra has been able to reframe measles into an issue of great fear. This is why these historical references are important, otherwise we are susceptible to manipulation.
But thank you for admitting you cannot verify your unevidenced claim that [pre vaccine] most measles deaths were in malnourished kids in the Mississippi delta.
One shot of attenuated measles vaccine didn't provide full protection, that is true...only 95%.
It required the addition of a second shot given a few years later to boost effectiveness up to 97-98%.
That's the type of level you need in a population to convey herd effective herd immunity, since 100% of the population will not have had the vaccine for a number of reasons. Herd immunity threshold for measles is around 93%.
He states that the common cold causes widespread short term morbidity,. That's true, people get colds frequently, while measles is a "one and done". But measles is very unpleasant in comparison, and comes with long term morbidity and immune amnesia, and a small but significant death rate. All of these are avoidable through vaccination, which is very safe.
It’s time to get all the parties to the table and make vaccines better, what they could be. But it’s going to take everyone from both sides of the issue to put aside their differences and work hard to make it happen. The current accepted story from the establishment is just wrong, they are the great saviour everyone has been led to believe. The vast majority of the improvements happened before they came along. People just need to get over being so tribal or religious about it. They need to be fixed.
Sorry, I was looking for a source for the claim that the kids dying from measles prevaccine were all malnourished Mississippians (if that is the term).
Nope...450 NOTIFIED deaths out of 500,000 NOTIFIED cases.
It is true that there were probably as many as 3 million measles cases a year, because the disease was so common it wasn't always notified to the authorities. But it is also true that deaths were under-reported, and some sources suggest that the true number of deaths from measles was closer to 1000 a year, once you add in all the deaths from SSPE (which were not notified as acute measles) and those deaths attributed to pneumonia which were really deaths from measles pneumonitis.
Measles doesn't just kill you. In the outbreaks in 1987-2000 when notifications were closely monitored and widespread testing identified even mild cases, there were 67,032 cases of measles in the US.
30% had complications, including:
Hospitalisation - 20%
Gastroenteritis - 8%
Otitis - 7%
Pneumonia 6%
Death 0.3%
Encephalitis 0.1%
Added to that, immune amnesia will have affected these kids for 2 years after recovery, increasing their risk of infections and diminishing their protective immune responses to new antigenic challenges and reducing life long immune memory.
It amuses me how the same anti-vaccine arguments are defended here in Brazil, which made me wonder if I should give my one-year-old son the MMR vaccine. But thanks to Dr. Paul Offit, I’m becoming more and more convinced that their arguments don’t hold up against the facts—he brilliantly refutes each anti-vaccine fallacy.
Kennedy's now saying those of us who want vaccines should have access to them (it's our "choice"), yet he's cancelling the vital meetings related to vaccines. So apparently this is his strategy to force all of us to lose access to vaccines. So much for freedom. As for those Republican Congressmen and women who voted for him, per Democrat Eric Swalwell, some of his Republican friends have reported to him that they fear for their lives if they do anything to thwart Trump. Apparently, they have no problem with allowing children to die.
We don’t need the rubber-stamp meetings. We already know the recommendations. The vaccines continue to be available for purchase, and anyone who chooses can go to any pharmacy or medical provider and get MMR or any other vaccine. Or not seek them if they don’t want them. That is as it should be.
Measles is an infectious disease, and infectious diseases require community-based solutions. You don't travel 100 mph through main street. You wear a seat belt. You don't kill people. You don't steal from them. You get vaccinated. You do this because you care about others in your community.
This commenter seems clueless about public health and how it is different from ordering a pizza.
My true fear, the only 'wakeup' call for JFK Jr (sad legacy for a family that enabled many positive contributions for the American public & the global community) will be the death of other children.
** Before readers shout at my positive view of the Kennedy family, save your venting RFK Jr is the problem not his father or uncles**
The "immune amnesia" that results from acute measles (correctly stated by Dr. Offit) presents challenges for those infected going forward. Parents doing their research & holding vigil over their critical I'll child that I 🙏 survive, will be dealing with the rare but factual possiblity their child succumbs to fatal SSPE 😥
We have cases of measles in Canada also... completely preventable (ok not quite 100%) however our current total is approximately that reported in Texas/NM
Paul, I would love to hear your thoughts about the recent Nature publication that strongly associates western diet during pregnancy with ADHD and autism given that anti-vaccine propagandists have been pushing vaccines as the cause for decades. This is a huge swing and a miss for conspiracy theorists and a win for science.
From the study, Horner, D. et al. A western dietary pattern during pregnancy is associated with neurodevelopmental disorders in childhood and adolescence. medRxiv [Preprint]. 2024 Jun 25:2024.03.07.24303907. doi: 10.1101/2024.03.07.24303907. PMID: 38496582; PMCID: PMC10942528.
"Genetics contribute significantly to neurodevelopmental disorders, with heritability estimates as high as 80%. The increasing prevalence of these disorders highlight the need for a better understanding of how environmental factors interact with genetic risk. In this context, pregnancy dietary influences may be moderated by the child's underlying genetic risk for neurodevelopmental disorders, which can be succinctly captured in a polygenic risk score (PRS). While twin studies consider gene-environment interactions when estimating heritability, clinical evidence validating this potential interaction is notably lacking."
"In our large prospective general population COPSAC2010 mother-child cohort, we observed strong associations between a Western dietary pattern during pregnancy with ADHD and autism diagnoses, as well as related symptom loads for these disorders in 10-year-old children. Our findings for ADHD were corroborated in three additional cohorts, which together encompass more than 60,000 mother-child pairs. From the 43 metabolites associated with a Western dietary pattern, a subset of 15 mediating metabolites notably strengthened the association with ADHD diagnosis in external validation. In the COPSAC2010 and VDAART cohorts, we consistently found dietary metabolite score associations in early-mid pregnancy had the strongest associations with neurodevelopmental outcomes, suggesting that this may be a particularly sensitive period of neurodevelopment to dietary influences. Finally, we observed that the association of the Western dietary pattern during pregnancy with ADHD and autism diagnoses, as well as symptom loads, was markedly stronger in children with higher genetic predisposition and maternal pre-pregnancy BMI, particularly in male children."
And after accounting for confounding factors and applying "external validation in three independent mother-child cohorts,"" they concluded,
"[A]Western dietary pattern in pregnancy was strongly associated with ADHD and autism, and with symptom loads for these disorders. Our findings suggest that early to mid-pregnancy may be a particularly sensitive window during which dietary influences may impact child neurodevelopment. Highlighting specific subgroup effects, our research points towards the potential for tailored dietary guidelines during pregnancy, especially for at-risk populations. Ultimately, our research underscores the importance of developing targeted dietary interventions for pregnant women to potentially mitigate the risk of neurodevelopmental disorders in children."
The genetic basis for autism has been long established. Other factors may influence its expression. Are these dietary factors working through epigenetics, or do they have a direct effect on developing neurones?
While other, smaller studies have suggested that either deficiencies or low intake of micronutrients, or conversely, consumption of excessive amounts of highly processed nutrients are suspected of increasing the risk of neurodevelopmental disorders - associated with alterations in the microbiome gut-brain axis (thank you Dr. Conway) - this study, with 60,000 subjects, focuses attention. If they are indeed correct upon further investigation, the resolution to these epigenetic influences will be mitigated in "defiance," if you will, of concerns (i.e. "Should I or should I not vaccinate?") of the already established safety record of the MMR vaccine.
Silly. The Western diet had been in place for centuries when vaccination produced the first cases of autism after 1932. And has continued to be the same when each new vaccine caused an increase in autism.
Not necessarily. The great emphasis on carbohydrates from grains and ultra processed foods has mainly occurred since the 1960s. In my opinion, some children are genetically more susceptible to autism and ADHD, but several environmental factors including modern diet, environmental toxins and, yes, vaccines can trigger these disorders.
It has not. Dr. Leo Kanner published the first paper describing it in 1943, saying that it was so strange and distinctive that if it had existed anywhere in the world before, it would have been described, but it had not been. He described echolalia and pronoun reversal, and social isolation, the inability to use speech for communication, compulsive habits and routines, failure to mature. It was new in the 1930s, when he, as a neurologist from Johns Hopkins, had been asked to examine a number of children with the syndrome. Mercury had been added to the diphtheria vaccine in 1932 to kill germs. All the children had either received mercury in that vaccine or from environmental exposure, as in fathers who sold lumber treated with new fungicides containing mercury. All the symptoms of autism can be caused by mercury toxicity. As in my daughter and me.
Around that time in the ‘30s, several doctors at Johns Hopkins had collaborated on an anthology with descriptions of every psychiatric condition in children ever known, but nothing even vaguely resembling autism was described in it.
It is now usually caused by excessive inflammatory vaccine reactions: vaccine encephaltis in acute reactions, screaming syndrome and autistic brain damage, again, as in my daughter and me. Dr. Kanner was unaware of it, but Mark Blaxill, co-author of The Age of Autism, found records of some children institutionalized in the hospital of Bedlam, who had reacted to what passed as a smallpox vaccination. They were normal when they got it, but afterwards lost their speech and one sat beside the fire and picked up burning coals with her bare hands. Autistic from vaccination, introducing antigens to the bloodstream, where the immune system triggered encephalitis.
St. Ludwige, whom I’m sure you will cite, had a serious skating accident which caused neurological symptoms. You also like to cite deaf and wolf children, who have reasons other than autism from brain damage to explain their failure to develop normal language.
Autism was new ninety years ago, other than the unfortunate victims of the smallpox vaccine.
All you’ve done is describe how autism came to be recognised as a distinct condition in its own right last century.
But it always existed. Like diabetes and hypertension always existed, until people worked out ways to recognise them for what they are.
You are lying about what Leo Kanner (the “father” of autism) said. I’ve told you before, and I quote him directly, that he stated at the first national conference of the NSAC in 1969 where he was being honoured for “discovering” autism:
Thanks Dr Offitt. RFK is a professional BSr but gotta see if he told truth to Bernie Sanders and can admit when he's wrong. We will see as we have no choice. The way we always have done things is not an excuse not to try new things. But we need humility from people to realize the new way, not working as well.
Dr Offit, there are so many true, but misleading, statements in your essay that I hardly know where to begin. You state that the 98% reduction in measles deaths before vaccines were available was because of newly available antibiotics to treat secondary pneumonia infection, not because of better sanitation and nutrition. Actually, all these factors play a role. But, guess what? The same and additional antibiotics are still available, which you obviously know as a physician.
Also, as you imply, in developed countries, including the US, we have better nutrition, including adequate Vitamin A in most cases. You continue to compare “apples and oranges” because you are a vaccine zealot. Children in the US and other developed countries simply will not die at the same rate as in developing countries, vaccination or not.
Without vaccination, there would be measles epidemics every year, just like when I was a kid. But, because of modern sanitation, nutrition, hospital facilities and antibiotics there would be very few deaths from measles. VAERS data estimates that 16 times as many people die from the MMR vaccination as from measles. Measles simply is not a severe disease in most people. The reason that measles spreads so fast when epidemics break out is that few people have had measles infections and vaccines provide immunity over a limited time. A measles infection provides lifetime immunity, and there are studies that indicate a prior measles infection may protect against some cancers. The point is that in complex biological systems there are always tradeoffs with any medical intervention. So yes, vaccines do protect against the specific measles virus, but at what cost over the long term? Do the vaccines result in less death overall? This needs to be studied, which is exactly the kind of research that RFK Jr. wants done. And, vaccines should never be mandated unless we fully understand the risks vs. benefits, and not just in the short term.
Yes, it is everyone’s right to refuse the MMR. Those who want it should be free to get it, and they are. But additionally, if someone gets the MMR, he is 95% guaranteed not to get measles. But he stands a good chance of suffering a vaccine reaction: autism, bowel disease, thrombocytopenia, or any of dozens more reported reactions. Many, including me, would rather get measles than any of the reactions, and it is our right to make that choice. Also, getting natural measles confers many benefits: lifelong immunity, the ability to protect future infants, a more competent immune system, and protection from cancer in later life. It is also our right to choose those benefits.
It has been reported that the girl was given MMR when already symptomatic for measles. All vaccines suppress immune function for about a month. That’s why DPT administration was suspended during polio outbreaks. It increased the chance of severe and paralytic polio.
It is very important to give the public a truthful account of what happened. It is probable that everyone in the area had been exposed to measles. That the girl had a runny nose, sore throat, and low fever, because she was coming down with measles. That health care providers had been told to vax everyone possible, including those who had been recently exposed. And so they vaxxed her, which depressed her immune system at the moment she most needed it to be fully functioning. Which led to her coughing, which became bronchitis, then pneumonia. Vitamin A drops would have helped her, but the local newspaper told the public not to give vitamin A.
A press conference should be held, confirming or denying these events. It is very important that the public know, so it may know its options, as Kennedy said.
"That the girl had a runny nose, sore throat, and low fever, because she was coming down with measles. That health care providers had been told to vax everyone possible [STILL NO CONFIRMATION] including those who had been recently exposed. And so they vaxxed her [STILL NO CONFIRMATION], which depressed her immune system [THAT IS A BLATANT LIE] at the moment she most needed it to be fully functioning. Which led to her coughing, which became bronchitis, then pneumonia [NOT BECAUSE OF VACCINATION WHICH IS STILL NOT CONFIRMED]. Vitamin A drops would have helped her [UNLIKELY UNLESS SHE WAS VITAMIN A DEFICIENT WHICH IS UNLIKELY - 0.3% IN THE US], but the local newspaper told the public not to give vitamin A [INSTEAD OF THE VACCINE - WHICH IS CORRECT].
The deadly disinformation being spread by this lunatic is unconscionable.
IT IS PUTTING CHILDREN AT RISK OF DEATH AS WE HAVE ALREADY SEEN.
"It has been reported that the girl was given MMR when already symptomatic for measles'
There is STILL no comfirmation that this is so.
It sounds like a desperate lie by this sociopathic antivaxxer who is advocating for the return of the deaths of 300-500 children every year in the US.
"All vaccines suppress immune function for about a month"
That is a BLATANT LIE.
On the other hand, measles infection wipes immune memory which takes 3 years on average to recover, and it does so through repeated infection.
"That’s why DPT administration was suspended during polio outbreaks."
Another BLATANT LIE.
The only reason historically that DPT vaccinations were halted was for logistical reasons during outbreaks of infections like poliomyelitis. It was a manpower issue and resources were switched to vaccinating children against poliomyelitis.
"It increased the chance of severe and paralytic polio."
Another BLATANT LIE from this science illiterate, sociopathic, antivaxx lunatic.
No vaccines impair the immune response. The reverse is the case.
My opinion - Don't waste your time reufuting nonsense point by point. Waste of time. He can spit it out faster than you keep up, and he's impermeable to reason.
I prefer to ridicule a bit, if I feel like being bothered ...
" But he stands a good chance of suffering a vaccine reaction: autism, bowel disease, thrombocytopenia, or any of dozens more reported reactions."
VACCINES DO *NOT* CAUSE AUTISM.
THE MEASLES VACCINE DOES NOT CAUSE BOWEL DISEASE.
As for thrombocytopenia:
The rate of thrombocytopenia after measles vaccination is 1 in 30,000 to 40,000 doses and it is typically mild and resolves on its own without long-term complications. Fatal outcomes from vaccine-induced thrombocytopenia are exceedingly rare and not commonly reported in medical literature. It is certainly far less than 1 in a million.
On the other hand, the mortality rate of measles infection: 1 in 1000.
Another pathetic entry from a science illiterate antivax sociopath.
"Yes, it is everyone’s right to refuse the MMR. "
That is NOT the point as much as this disgusting little antivax liar would wish it to be.
Getting vaccinated with MMR should be what people concerned about public health and of the health and lives of their children and the children of their neighbours should want.
Before the vaccine: 300-500 children in the US died every year from measles.
After thevaccine: 1 child has died in 20 years.
THAT is the point we should all concentrate on
...not our own personal freedom to do whatever the hell we want regardless of the 300-500 children who die at the altar of our PERSONAL FREEDOM!
Choosing science as a safety net not as primary prevention is selfish and a waste of healthcare resources. Developing countries accept vaccines because, unlike in the Western World, there is no modern medical care to step in and try to save their children. If you’re going to gamble with your children’s lives and ignore science, why not go all the way?
Dr. Offit, you certainly have a lot of "noise" to get beyond, and more power to you. We really appreciate your efforts.
He IS the noise.
If you believe that, why are you even here?
Get lost troll.
In what respect is he "the noise"?
Dr. Offit is the SIGNAL and you (plural, antiscientific antivaxers) are the NOISE.
Would be interesting if you would actually accept to have a conversation about this so you both could be clear on what you believe- But I think you never accept the request. Wonder why
Dr. Offit has made it abundantly clear what he knows to be true, based on the best available scientific evidence. Why waste time having a "conversation" about it?
Another trump administration, another failure to address a serious public health issue. RFK Jr said: <[The best] approach to public health is to boost individual immune responses.”> That is exactly what a vaccine does—safely, quickly and effectively. Nutrition and hygiene important, but to get rapid protection—VACCINATE!
Kennedy was right to stress the importance of good nutrition in overcoming measles. But hygiene has little to do with measles, but rather is crucial for preventing fecal-borne diseases like polio and hep-A. Respiratory diseases like measles are borne on the air, and if you are nearby and breathe, you will probably get it. The measles virus, like the pertussis pathogen, evolved to become milder over time. Every community had mechanisms in place which primed children with non-specific immunity before they got measles, which then gave them specigic immunity.
<<The measles virus, like the pertussis pathogen, evolved to become milder over time. Every community had mechanisms in place which primed children with non-specific immunity before they got measles, which then gave them specigic immunity.>>
And your evidence for this is …what, exactly?
She has no evidence. She just parrots the propaganda that was drummed into her when she was looking for explanations as to why her child had autism.
"Kennedy was right to stress the importance of good nutrition in overcoming measles"
Nope, in the US good nutrition is a minor factor in the treament of meales and plays no role in prevention. The measles vaccine is at least 97% effective in preventing measles infection. And it does not cause autism. That is a lie.
"The measles virus, like the pertussis pathogen, evolved to become milder over time. "
Nope. The community is just less susceptible because of widespread vaccination despite the despicable efforts of arseholes like this poster who advocates for a return of the deaths of 300-500 children every year from measles.
"Every community had mechanisms in place which primed children non-specific immunity before they got measles, which then gave them specific immunity.
That is a lie. Measles vaccination is 97% effective. Nothing else comes even remotely close to that in the US where the rate of vitamin A deficiency is about 0.3%.
Vaccines Cause Adults!
Vaccines Save Lives!
In 1960 in the US, 99% of children had measles by the age of 18. Three to four million cases a year, 450 deaths. Centuries of universal measles produced both specific and non-specific immunity. Normal immune systems produced healthy adults.
This poster is clearly telling you that the death of 450 children a year from measles do not matter if those who survive are healthy. This exposes this disgusting poster as both a eugenicists and liar.
The remaining 450 annual deaths prior to the 1963 roll out were concentrated in the malnourished in the Mississippi delta. Those kids given proper hygiene and diets would likely have been saved. But instead a vaccine only mentality has possibly resulted in high chronic disease rates, the vaxx verse unvaxxed studies will help understand what trade off were made from mass vaccination.
Another plague apologist post from you I see.
what nonsense!!
Except for the 450 dead children
They were unfortunately unwell kids, looking after their nutrition and sanitation saved them more than measles shots. You guys need to look into this stuff.
Have you got a breakdown of the measles deaths prevaccine (before 1963)? Have you anything at all that confirms the 450-500 deaths each year were in malnourished kids in Mississippi? Or are you just whistling Dixie?
https://stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/41218/cdc_41218_DS1.pdf
Mike, I haven’t found the source of the Mississippi claim, I may have that wrong, a vitamin A deficiency would have been more accurate, which is present in 90%+ of measles deaths. The WHO recommends high dose vitamin A (50,000-200,000 IU) should be used in the treatment of measles in two consecutive days if someone is deficient.
But maybe you would read this short article from 1962 on the status or significance of measles as a disease of concern from the mindset of doctors at that time right before the introduction of the vaccine.
You will see that their mindset is that it really is no longer a concern but if we can get rid of it (in the context that they knew a vaccine was coming) we may as well. But they made that determination in the context that one, the vaccine was going to eradicate the disease, and two, that it would be without risk, neither of which panned out. At that time it was believed that the coming vaccine was going to mimic natural infection, be a one and done shot without the downside of a rash or fever or complications from natural measles infection even though they were rare. Essentially it was believed there was going to be zero downside from the vaccine, everything was a plus, but again the vaccine did not deliver as promised or as anticipated. It would be interesting what the doctors’ position on the matter would have been if they were asked what if the vaccine will never be able to eradicate the disease, that immunity would wane, and that adverse events and complication from the vaccine would occur?
The paragraph stating that the common cold is of more concern than measles is telling. They state this in the context that just because measles is even less of a concern than the common cold we should still eliminate measles if we can.
With the passage of time and memory phamra has been able to reframe measles into an issue of great fear. This is why these historical references are important, otherwise we are susceptible to manipulation.
I've read the Langmuir paper before, thank you.
But thank you for admitting you cannot verify your unevidenced claim that [pre vaccine] most measles deaths were in malnourished kids in the Mississippi delta.
One shot of attenuated measles vaccine didn't provide full protection, that is true...only 95%.
It required the addition of a second shot given a few years later to boost effectiveness up to 97-98%.
That's the type of level you need in a population to convey herd effective herd immunity, since 100% of the population will not have had the vaccine for a number of reasons. Herd immunity threshold for measles is around 93%.
He states that the common cold causes widespread short term morbidity,. That's true, people get colds frequently, while measles is a "one and done". But measles is very unpleasant in comparison, and comes with long term morbidity and immune amnesia, and a small but significant death rate. All of these are avoidable through vaccination, which is very safe.
https://open.substack.com/pub/romanbystrianyk/p/fear-to-fact?r=1ge4y7&utm_medium=ios
It’s time to get all the parties to the table and make vaccines better, what they could be. But it’s going to take everyone from both sides of the issue to put aside their differences and work hard to make it happen. The current accepted story from the establishment is just wrong, they are the great saviour everyone has been led to believe. The vast majority of the improvements happened before they came along. People just need to get over being so tribal or religious about it. They need to be fixed.
liar!!
Sorry, I was looking for a source for the claim that the kids dying from measles prevaccine were all malnourished Mississippians (if that is the term).
Can you oblige?
Nope...450 NOTIFIED deaths out of 500,000 NOTIFIED cases.
It is true that there were probably as many as 3 million measles cases a year, because the disease was so common it wasn't always notified to the authorities. But it is also true that deaths were under-reported, and some sources suggest that the true number of deaths from measles was closer to 1000 a year, once you add in all the deaths from SSPE (which were not notified as acute measles) and those deaths attributed to pneumonia which were really deaths from measles pneumonitis.
Measles doesn't just kill you. In the outbreaks in 1987-2000 when notifications were closely monitored and widespread testing identified even mild cases, there were 67,032 cases of measles in the US.
30% had complications, including:
Hospitalisation - 20%
Gastroenteritis - 8%
Otitis - 7%
Pneumonia 6%
Death 0.3%
Encephalitis 0.1%
Added to that, immune amnesia will have affected these kids for 2 years after recovery, increasing their risk of infections and diminishing their protective immune responses to new antigenic challenges and reducing life long immune memory.
Thanks for your input. Appreciate the truth
I always follow your opinions on such critical matters. We need your valuable comments at this critical time.
It amuses me how the same anti-vaccine arguments are defended here in Brazil, which made me wonder if I should give my one-year-old son the MMR vaccine. But thanks to Dr. Paul Offit, I’m becoming more and more convinced that their arguments don’t hold up against the facts—he brilliantly refutes each anti-vaccine fallacy.
Kennedy's now saying those of us who want vaccines should have access to them (it's our "choice"), yet he's cancelling the vital meetings related to vaccines. So apparently this is his strategy to force all of us to lose access to vaccines. So much for freedom. As for those Republican Congressmen and women who voted for him, per Democrat Eric Swalwell, some of his Republican friends have reported to him that they fear for their lives if they do anything to thwart Trump. Apparently, they have no problem with allowing children to die.
We don’t need the rubber-stamp meetings. We already know the recommendations. The vaccines continue to be available for purchase, and anyone who chooses can go to any pharmacy or medical provider and get MMR or any other vaccine. Or not seek them if they don’t want them. That is as it should be.
Measles is an infectious disease, and infectious diseases require community-based solutions. You don't travel 100 mph through main street. You wear a seat belt. You don't kill people. You don't steal from them. You get vaccinated. You do this because you care about others in your community.
This commenter seems clueless about public health and how it is different from ordering a pizza.
My true fear, the only 'wakeup' call for JFK Jr (sad legacy for a family that enabled many positive contributions for the American public & the global community) will be the death of other children.
** Before readers shout at my positive view of the Kennedy family, save your venting RFK Jr is the problem not his father or uncles**
The "immune amnesia" that results from acute measles (correctly stated by Dr. Offit) presents challenges for those infected going forward. Parents doing their research & holding vigil over their critical I'll child that I 🙏 survive, will be dealing with the rare but factual possiblity their child succumbs to fatal SSPE 😥
We have cases of measles in Canada also... completely preventable (ok not quite 100%) however our current total is approximately that reported in Texas/NM
JJF Phm 🇨🇦
Has Junior’s [brain] worm turned?
Nope, just a little wriggle.
Isn’t RFK practicing medicine without a license ?
Paul, I would love to hear your thoughts about the recent Nature publication that strongly associates western diet during pregnancy with ADHD and autism given that anti-vaccine propagandists have been pushing vaccines as the cause for decades. This is a huge swing and a miss for conspiracy theorists and a win for science.
From the study, Horner, D. et al. A western dietary pattern during pregnancy is associated with neurodevelopmental disorders in childhood and adolescence. medRxiv [Preprint]. 2024 Jun 25:2024.03.07.24303907. doi: 10.1101/2024.03.07.24303907. PMID: 38496582; PMCID: PMC10942528.
"Genetics contribute significantly to neurodevelopmental disorders, with heritability estimates as high as 80%. The increasing prevalence of these disorders highlight the need for a better understanding of how environmental factors interact with genetic risk. In this context, pregnancy dietary influences may be moderated by the child's underlying genetic risk for neurodevelopmental disorders, which can be succinctly captured in a polygenic risk score (PRS). While twin studies consider gene-environment interactions when estimating heritability, clinical evidence validating this potential interaction is notably lacking."
"In our large prospective general population COPSAC2010 mother-child cohort, we observed strong associations between a Western dietary pattern during pregnancy with ADHD and autism diagnoses, as well as related symptom loads for these disorders in 10-year-old children. Our findings for ADHD were corroborated in three additional cohorts, which together encompass more than 60,000 mother-child pairs. From the 43 metabolites associated with a Western dietary pattern, a subset of 15 mediating metabolites notably strengthened the association with ADHD diagnosis in external validation. In the COPSAC2010 and VDAART cohorts, we consistently found dietary metabolite score associations in early-mid pregnancy had the strongest associations with neurodevelopmental outcomes, suggesting that this may be a particularly sensitive period of neurodevelopment to dietary influences. Finally, we observed that the association of the Western dietary pattern during pregnancy with ADHD and autism diagnoses, as well as symptom loads, was markedly stronger in children with higher genetic predisposition and maternal pre-pregnancy BMI, particularly in male children."
And after accounting for confounding factors and applying "external validation in three independent mother-child cohorts,"" they concluded,
"[A]Western dietary pattern in pregnancy was strongly associated with ADHD and autism, and with symptom loads for these disorders. Our findings suggest that early to mid-pregnancy may be a particularly sensitive window during which dietary influences may impact child neurodevelopment. Highlighting specific subgroup effects, our research points towards the potential for tailored dietary guidelines during pregnancy, especially for at-risk populations. Ultimately, our research underscores the importance of developing targeted dietary interventions for pregnant women to potentially mitigate the risk of neurodevelopmental disorders in children."
The genetic basis for autism has been long established. Other factors may influence its expression. Are these dietary factors working through epigenetics, or do they have a direct effect on developing neurones?
Or associated with alterations in the microbiome gut-brain axis...
While other, smaller studies have suggested that either deficiencies or low intake of micronutrients, or conversely, consumption of excessive amounts of highly processed nutrients are suspected of increasing the risk of neurodevelopmental disorders - associated with alterations in the microbiome gut-brain axis (thank you Dr. Conway) - this study, with 60,000 subjects, focuses attention. If they are indeed correct upon further investigation, the resolution to these epigenetic influences will be mitigated in "defiance," if you will, of concerns (i.e. "Should I or should I not vaccinate?") of the already established safety record of the MMR vaccine.
I’m laughing at your tongue-in-cheek pretend agreement.
Well, you laugh at children dying of vaccine preventable disease, so there's that.
Silly. The Western diet had been in place for centuries when vaccination produced the first cases of autism after 1932. And has continued to be the same when each new vaccine caused an increase in autism.
Vaccinations DO NOT cause autism.
STOP LYING.
Not necessarily. The great emphasis on carbohydrates from grains and ultra processed foods has mainly occurred since the 1960s. In my opinion, some children are genetically more susceptible to autism and ADHD, but several environmental factors including modern diet, environmental toxins and, yes, vaccines can trigger these disorders.
Autism has been well described and recognised for centuries.
It has not. Dr. Leo Kanner published the first paper describing it in 1943, saying that it was so strange and distinctive that if it had existed anywhere in the world before, it would have been described, but it had not been. He described echolalia and pronoun reversal, and social isolation, the inability to use speech for communication, compulsive habits and routines, failure to mature. It was new in the 1930s, when he, as a neurologist from Johns Hopkins, had been asked to examine a number of children with the syndrome. Mercury had been added to the diphtheria vaccine in 1932 to kill germs. All the children had either received mercury in that vaccine or from environmental exposure, as in fathers who sold lumber treated with new fungicides containing mercury. All the symptoms of autism can be caused by mercury toxicity. As in my daughter and me.
Around that time in the ‘30s, several doctors at Johns Hopkins had collaborated on an anthology with descriptions of every psychiatric condition in children ever known, but nothing even vaguely resembling autism was described in it.
It is now usually caused by excessive inflammatory vaccine reactions: vaccine encephaltis in acute reactions, screaming syndrome and autistic brain damage, again, as in my daughter and me. Dr. Kanner was unaware of it, but Mark Blaxill, co-author of The Age of Autism, found records of some children institutionalized in the hospital of Bedlam, who had reacted to what passed as a smallpox vaccination. They were normal when they got it, but afterwards lost their speech and one sat beside the fire and picked up burning coals with her bare hands. Autistic from vaccination, introducing antigens to the bloodstream, where the immune system triggered encephalitis.
St. Ludwige, whom I’m sure you will cite, had a serious skating accident which caused neurological symptoms. You also like to cite deaf and wolf children, who have reasons other than autism from brain damage to explain their failure to develop normal language.
Autism was new ninety years ago, other than the unfortunate victims of the smallpox vaccine.
All you’ve done is describe how autism came to be recognised as a distinct condition in its own right last century.
But it always existed. Like diabetes and hypertension always existed, until people worked out ways to recognise them for what they are.
You are lying about what Leo Kanner (the “father” of autism) said. I’ve told you before, and I quote him directly, that he stated at the first national conference of the NSAC in 1969 where he was being honoured for “discovering” autism:
“It was there before”.
https://beyondthespectrummovie.com/
Doctors of America unite to get rid of him
Thanks Dr Offitt. RFK is a professional BSr but gotta see if he told truth to Bernie Sanders and can admit when he's wrong. We will see as we have no choice. The way we always have done things is not an excuse not to try new things. But we need humility from people to realize the new way, not working as well.
RFK (or his little buddy in his head) sure does love some alliteration
"pushing patented pills, powders, pricks, potions, and poisons and the powerful professions of virology and vaccinology"
https://www.childrensmn.org/References/cds/measles-clinical-guidelines.pdf
This is the clinical guideline for measles care which includes using Vitamin A on diagnosis.
Dr Offit, there are so many true, but misleading, statements in your essay that I hardly know where to begin. You state that the 98% reduction in measles deaths before vaccines were available was because of newly available antibiotics to treat secondary pneumonia infection, not because of better sanitation and nutrition. Actually, all these factors play a role. But, guess what? The same and additional antibiotics are still available, which you obviously know as a physician.
Also, as you imply, in developed countries, including the US, we have better nutrition, including adequate Vitamin A in most cases. You continue to compare “apples and oranges” because you are a vaccine zealot. Children in the US and other developed countries simply will not die at the same rate as in developing countries, vaccination or not.
Without vaccination, there would be measles epidemics every year, just like when I was a kid. But, because of modern sanitation, nutrition, hospital facilities and antibiotics there would be very few deaths from measles. VAERS data estimates that 16 times as many people die from the MMR vaccination as from measles. Measles simply is not a severe disease in most people. The reason that measles spreads so fast when epidemics break out is that few people have had measles infections and vaccines provide immunity over a limited time. A measles infection provides lifetime immunity, and there are studies that indicate a prior measles infection may protect against some cancers. The point is that in complex biological systems there are always tradeoffs with any medical intervention. So yes, vaccines do protect against the specific measles virus, but at what cost over the long term? Do the vaccines result in less death overall? This needs to be studied, which is exactly the kind of research that RFK Jr. wants done. And, vaccines should never be mandated unless we fully understand the risks vs. benefits, and not just in the short term.
“VAERS data estimates that 16 times as many people die from the MMR vaccination as from measles.”
That’s just complete BS. You clearly don’t know what VAERS data represent.
Can you link me to any report of medically confirmed MMR deaths?
…I’ll wait.
Well stated. Thanks for posting this comment.
Still waiting...2 weeks later!!
I guess you had nothing.
Yes, it is everyone’s right to refuse the MMR. Those who want it should be free to get it, and they are. But additionally, if someone gets the MMR, he is 95% guaranteed not to get measles. But he stands a good chance of suffering a vaccine reaction: autism, bowel disease, thrombocytopenia, or any of dozens more reported reactions. Many, including me, would rather get measles than any of the reactions, and it is our right to make that choice. Also, getting natural measles confers many benefits: lifelong immunity, the ability to protect future infants, a more competent immune system, and protection from cancer in later life. It is also our right to choose those benefits.
It has been reported that the girl was given MMR when already symptomatic for measles. All vaccines suppress immune function for about a month. That’s why DPT administration was suspended during polio outbreaks. It increased the chance of severe and paralytic polio.
It is very important to give the public a truthful account of what happened. It is probable that everyone in the area had been exposed to measles. That the girl had a runny nose, sore throat, and low fever, because she was coming down with measles. That health care providers had been told to vax everyone possible, including those who had been recently exposed. And so they vaxxed her, which depressed her immune system at the moment she most needed it to be fully functioning. Which led to her coughing, which became bronchitis, then pneumonia. Vitamin A drops would have helped her, but the local newspaper told the public not to give vitamin A.
A press conference should be held, confirming or denying these events. It is very important that the public know, so it may know its options, as Kennedy said.
This is nothing more than a rumour-mongering lie:
"That the girl had a runny nose, sore throat, and low fever, because she was coming down with measles. That health care providers had been told to vax everyone possible [STILL NO CONFIRMATION] including those who had been recently exposed. And so they vaxxed her [STILL NO CONFIRMATION], which depressed her immune system [THAT IS A BLATANT LIE] at the moment she most needed it to be fully functioning. Which led to her coughing, which became bronchitis, then pneumonia [NOT BECAUSE OF VACCINATION WHICH IS STILL NOT CONFIRMED]. Vitamin A drops would have helped her [UNLIKELY UNLESS SHE WAS VITAMIN A DEFICIENT WHICH IS UNLIKELY - 0.3% IN THE US], but the local newspaper told the public not to give vitamin A [INSTEAD OF THE VACCINE - WHICH IS CORRECT].
The deadly disinformation being spread by this lunatic is unconscionable.
IT IS PUTTING CHILDREN AT RISK OF DEATH AS WE HAVE ALREADY SEEN.
This is so enraging and heartbreaking. I hate him the most of all these unqualified Cabinet members.
"It has been reported that the girl was given MMR when already symptomatic for measles'
There is STILL no comfirmation that this is so.
It sounds like a desperate lie by this sociopathic antivaxxer who is advocating for the return of the deaths of 300-500 children every year in the US.
"All vaccines suppress immune function for about a month"
That is a BLATANT LIE.
On the other hand, measles infection wipes immune memory which takes 3 years on average to recover, and it does so through repeated infection.
"That’s why DPT administration was suspended during polio outbreaks."
Another BLATANT LIE.
The only reason historically that DPT vaccinations were halted was for logistical reasons during outbreaks of infections like poliomyelitis. It was a manpower issue and resources were switched to vaccinating children against poliomyelitis.
"It increased the chance of severe and paralytic polio."
Another BLATANT LIE from this science illiterate, sociopathic, antivaxx lunatic.
No vaccines impair the immune response. The reverse is the case.
My opinion - Don't waste your time reufuting nonsense point by point. Waste of time. He can spit it out faster than you keep up, and he's impermeable to reason.
I prefer to ridicule a bit, if I feel like being bothered ...
"getting natural measles confers many benefits:
Here they are:
Death: 1 in 1000.
Encephalitis: 1 in 1000.
Pneumonia: 1 in 20.
Otitis Media: 1 in 10
Dehydration: 1 in 10
Hospitalisation: 1 in 5
This sociopathic liar calls these benefits.
" But he stands a good chance of suffering a vaccine reaction: autism, bowel disease, thrombocytopenia, or any of dozens more reported reactions."
VACCINES DO *NOT* CAUSE AUTISM.
THE MEASLES VACCINE DOES NOT CAUSE BOWEL DISEASE.
As for thrombocytopenia:
The rate of thrombocytopenia after measles vaccination is 1 in 30,000 to 40,000 doses and it is typically mild and resolves on its own without long-term complications. Fatal outcomes from vaccine-induced thrombocytopenia are exceedingly rare and not commonly reported in medical literature. It is certainly far less than 1 in a million.
On the other hand, the mortality rate of measles infection: 1 in 1000.
THIS POSTER HAS NO SENSE OF PROPORTION.
Another pathetic entry from a science illiterate antivax sociopath.
"Yes, it is everyone’s right to refuse the MMR. "
That is NOT the point as much as this disgusting little antivax liar would wish it to be.
Getting vaccinated with MMR should be what people concerned about public health and of the health and lives of their children and the children of their neighbours should want.
Before the vaccine: 300-500 children in the US died every year from measles.
After thevaccine: 1 child has died in 20 years.
THAT is the point we should all concentrate on
...not our own personal freedom to do whatever the hell we want regardless of the 300-500 children who die at the altar of our PERSONAL FREEDOM!
And many more died from adverse events from the vaccine.
"health and freedom advocate" is your way of describing your thought disorder
No, the number of deaths from MMR are so low they probably could be counted on the fingers of a leper's hand.
Have you got any references to there being deaths from MMR?
https://www.idsociety.org/public-health/measles/know-the-facts/
Lying hound.
I encourage you to read this FDA paper.
https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/science-research-biologics/investigating-viruses-cells-used-make-vaccines-and-evaluating-potential-threat-posed-transmission
Despicable scaremonger trying to increase childhood infection mortality rate by abusing the genuine work of genuine scientists.
Thanks for the link to work showing how hard scientists have worked to ensure the safety of our vaccines!
It's great when anti-science, anti-vaccine cultists double down on their own stupidity.
Choosing science as a safety net not as primary prevention is selfish and a waste of healthcare resources. Developing countries accept vaccines because, unlike in the Western World, there is no modern medical care to step in and try to save their children. If you’re going to gamble with your children’s lives and ignore science, why not go all the way?
You are lying about the child who died. SHE WAS NOT VACCINATED.
Liar.
I’ve explained to you in detail why vaccines are not given if it’s suspected someone might have polio.
Please acknowledge that you read that, and will stop lying about it in future.