If vaccines are all that Paul Offit claims them to be, then it’s time to remove the liability shield just like any other product on the market. Vaccine makers and advocates should have nothing to fear given their confidence in vaccines.
Just make the liability the same as for every other product on the market. There are so make gatekeepers preventing claims and the current system doesn’t allow for discovery. Claiming it’s a system that will prevent moral hazard risk is just not true.
Shut down only happens in the case of fraud. Otherwise, a vaccine injured person or his/her parents sue the HHS Secretary. The case is not heard by a “regular “ federal judge, but rather by a master and the ordinary process that all other litigation follows is NOT followed in these government run vaccine courts. Further, the outlays are limited to measly sums, and the funds are not provided by the vaccine makers but rather by the 25 cent tax placed on each vaccine given. The entire process protects the vaccine makers. It seems to me that vaccines, as manufactured products just like dishwashers and shampoo, should be held liable for any damage caused by the use of the those products by consumers.
The standard of proof is less than what is in civil or criminal litigation. The program was set up to make sure that someone would make vaccines to use in the US.
Before the program, we were close to being unable to find companies to make vaccines to be used in the US.
Unlike shampoo and dishwashers, vaccines save lives and help prevent disability - so having a different system does make sense.
Pharmaceutical companies have liability regarding the drugs that they make. Vaccines should be no different. No other product has this kind of liability shield.
You need to answer your own question and explain why we were close to “being unable to find companies to make vaccines to be used in the United States.” Since the companies got liability protection, they are making billions from their vaccines. Hmmmmmm……
The FDA regularly goes to vaccine and other pharm product factories. If they aren't following good practices on maintaining their equipment OR if they are putting something in vaccine they aren't --- then the FDA closes those factories - makes them destroy what they've made and fines are enacted.
I have friends who work for pharma companies who have described how disruptive it is - but it should be in order to not get glass or rat feces in my atorvastatin or my flu vaccine.
Since SV40 has been found in the covid mRNA shots, why then have they not been shut down? And why were the Pfizer papers originally not going to be published for 75 years until a federal judge ordered them to be released in monthly increments? Hmmmmm? Hiding something maybe?
How about baby formula with mold in it? does the FDA regularly visit those factories, and shut them down when they find it? Why would vaccine manufacturers be treated any different?
The FDA does visit those manufacturers. It would be amazing if Congress would fully fund the FDA so that it could do a better job than it is doing now.
See other answer below for why the VICP was created.
Everything you said is true and factual. Somehow we have to get through to those who are still mesmerized by vaccines. My take is that they are a medical fad that has had a long run, not unlike thalidomide, lobotomies, smoking, refusal to hand wash, and administering Premarin to postmenopausal women to name just a few of medicine’s misguided practices.
What ever the merits of this side discussion your remarks are absurd and the thought that somebody like you would be on a jury deciding about vaccine damage, however many 'expert' witnesses are put on the stand, is exactly why the special arrangements had to be made.
You, as an American have been lucky not to have had Polio, some of us were born in places where we had to bear the brunt of that and other diseases.
"You take", keep it to yourself until you know something about it I would.
You know nothing about that program. There is only one reason to shield a entire field from being held liable for the products that they put out and are expecting humans to have injected into their body.
In a perfect world there would be zero harm & everyone would never have an illness...OMG vaccines save millions of lives & parents don't watch their children die from a preventable disease or be crippled for the remainder of their lives.
Dude, Just stop washing, rinsing, repeating what you hear. Riddle me this. Baby Boomers and GenX on the average had between 3-5 or 6 shots. After GenX, the CDC's recommended shots list ☝🏼 until it's 81 I believe now.
How is it that B.Boomers and GenX share the same spaces as those that came after X YET, we don't fall down w/these deadly diseases you mention, or are lame.
It's time for ppl to quit living in apathy, while these groups of ppl after X are suffering from lings lists of physical &mental issues.
I am not your"dude" I am a licensed healthcare professionals with 2 University degrees & 40 yr's of studying & practicing in the real world of science with factually evidence as opposed to RFK has zero knowledge nor understanding of science & modern medicine...hey you're stuck with him not me, my role is to educate...proud 🇨🇦
Furthermore, My question that I posed, you can't answer it, that's your problem. Healthcare professional, what does that mean? And you don't know jack about me, my age, nor my education. Someone mentioned closed minds, that's your mind. You basically got your feelings hurt, your comment was meant to put me in my place, but you aren't in any position to do that.
I guarantee that I have just as much knowledge as you.
I DID NOT call you MY dude. I don't get my gd knowledge from RFK, Bub.. IDC how many degrees you have, talking about 'modern' anything is a red flag for you. EVIDENCE BASED PRACTICE, ever heard of it.
I'm not some kid that you're going to intimidate into being quiet.
No intimidation 🤔, evidence based info is all I offer to anyone including yourself...I also never referenced you as a kid...end you need not reply unless you choose to act like a kid...your beliefs are yours but you are misinformed
And once again , Muster, tell me what I'm misinformed about. First, you may want to notate that I don't carry takes and you can drop that damn that orefux from anything you wrote to me. 'mis' For the record, I only write what I see, hear, read, for myself.
Soz What is it exactly that you believe I'm lying about?
Dr. Fontaine, thank you for efforts! I worry that arguing with closed minds is taking up too much time from doctors like you and Dr. Offit - and driving up your blood pressure - but I appreciate it. Not sure we can make a dent in their insistence on a false/conspiratorial worldview. Every "hmmm...." makes me want to scream with aggravation. I'm grateful to be "stuck" with actual licensed healthcare professionals (pro-vax pun intended 💉) We're not "mesmerized", we're just good at parsing data 🤗
I am not a Dr...Phm pharmacist, trained & certified in travel medicine, very good understanding of immunology & vaccinations... compelled to help someone understand... albeit shouting into the wind ...thanks
got it - thanks for the correction. (I thought PharmD is technically a doctor). It's been fun trying to come up with more metaphors. Shouting into the wind, pushing string, shoveling fog... those are some of the polite ones 😅
The only closed minds are yours and your pals. Go ahead and scream, you get your hbird flu shot yet? Let me tell about bird flu. The USDA did gain of function on the bird flu (it's not new) and they infected mallard ducks with it. Naw what do you suppose could be the reasoning for that?
Parsing data? Tell me, what data have you parsed? Bc I can tell you, that unless you look at all sides of something, you're not the scholar you believe yourself to be.
So what data have you looked at to have mad you line up for a shot containing m-RNA?
And you, If you're going to accuse someone of something , then you best believe on your A game. What exactlyy did I hear and what exactly am I SPREADING?
You can go off a cliff, Bub. I don't write lies. Keep your head in the same. Or prive what I wrote is a lie. Those are your choices, not writing that I'm a liar. You got that?
Gen X kids did not just get ” 3 to 5 shots”, you are the one who is rinsing and repeating sir. Gen x kids got 4 doses of DTP “12 shots in anti-vax math, although only 4 injections, 4 doses of polio, 1 MMR and maybe smallpox (20 shots in anti-vax math). Today kids get the same DTaP and polio, 1 additional MMR, 2 Hepatitis A, 3 Hepatitis B, 2 doses of Varicella, 4 doses of PCV, 4 doses of HIb, 3 doses of Rotavirus (maybe less depending on brand of HIB and Rotavirus). That’s a total of ~40 “shots” in anti-vax math, not 81, as they would have you believe.
I suggest that you quit making a fool of yourself and open up the CDC's shots list. 81, it may be higher by now since the 'bird flu ' is around. Yeahhhhh.
YOU are wrong. My sister had 4 shots. I had 5. We are both GenX. Listen, when I wrote the number of shots down I wasn't not referring to the same shot multiple times. You got to be kidding me. Don't you dare call me an anti anything, do you understand me! I'm not a damn Sir, and YOU arealing things up.
I can assure you that I didn't get 4 polio anything, 4 doses of DTP, just keep blathering on.
Reading comprehension is your friend.
81 is the number on CDC's shots list, mister.
Plenty of ppl don't get shots. Idk your age and I don't care.
Babies come here very sturdy, no baby needs a help B shot nor do they need a Vitamin K shot. If you want to bury your h ad and not look at the data or listen to any pediatricians, that's on you.
But you don't dare write that I repeat what I hear.
Any day you want to discuss debate a topic, I'm around.
Please provide references for your claims that the CDC schedule has 81 shots on the list. I’ve worked in public health for over 15 years. I’m not sure why you are getting so defensive and hateful. Gen X most certainly was given polio vaccine, but it was oral.
I see you moving the goal post as well. I never wrote that GenX didn't get a polio vaccine. I write that they didn't take 4 doses. I remember, you may find that hard to believe, but I do remember taking it.
WHAT? Oh NOOO, you're not going to play that game, Mister..You know what I've been doing for years? Sitting in a fence in the middle of a corn field watching the dumbing down of society. 37 yrs ago, I noticed something going on, it hit me one day, they are deliberately dumbing down humans. My next thought was why? My next thought is for groups of ppl to be easily manipulated. After GenX, Dept of Ed came into existence. They introduced abstract concept teaching, starting in kindergarten. They shoved emphasizing the 3 R's to the back burner. That's also coincidentally the same time, CDC's recommended shots list started☝🏼. And for the 1st time in history, generations are testing lower IQ's than the previous generation.
You can talk down to me, I have a backbone of steel. I see wrong, I say something. That's the way it is supposed to be. So your words of ''I dint why you are getting defensive'' do not ring with any truth. I'm always passionate like this. One thing though, don't ever question my integrity. It's the only thing I own of value besides my sweet furry Choo. I will stand up to anything or anybody over my integrity. I am not a crazed, quack. I've got thousands of hours learning what I didn't already know in a short span of time, but that's okay bc I have an excellent thinking brain and God gives everyone different abilities. He gave me the gift of standing on the outside of the Matrix. I receive energy ((that's where I will leave it for theae purposes ).
The US Federal Gov is CAPTURED. If you're not familiar with this term, it means they do the bidding of the Puppet Masters. They no longer make decisions based on the best interests of US. ( THE PEOPLE)
One other thing, the lists of physical and mental problems of those born after GenX is very noticeable and quite frankly painful to interact with.
Do you or have interacted with what I call the alt-lft? Are you familiar with what's going on in colleges, Universities? Karl Marx's picture is on the some walls, in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. This time period is called individualism, next stop is transhumanism.
Parents gave away their parental authority some years ago. It's the very reason why they get kicked out of school board meetings. The FBI was and is weaponized against citizens of the US. They are the terrorists.
Terrorists -
To use force and intimidation to advance the goals of your political masters.
You will not find that definition unless you have an old dictionary. It was swapped out, not long before US invaded Iraq, remember? Where there were mass weapons of destruction..
Are you aware that the US Fed Gov pays the Taliban a sum of money every week? US FUNDS THE mofo Taliban.
Over 40 million per week.
The Puppet Masters own pharma, the media, energy, and the 3 investment companies own each other.
Black Rock, State Street, & Vanguard.
The Vatican, the London Exchange and Federal Reserve receive money through the NGO's.
We are on our own.
Do you know who is considered to be the grandfather of vaccines?
That’s not why at all. President Reagan asked the vaccine makers why just didn’t make safer vaccines and one of the CEOs replied: there’s no such thing as a safe vaccine.” So now the vaccine makers are getting filthy rich from an unsafe product that is mandatory for school attendance. Hmmmmm…….
Tell yourself whatever you have to. While you do that, why don't peruse through some vids of the ppl burn after GenX. Or have a conversation (try to) with some) .
“You said, “When I see somebody on a hiking trail carrying a little baby, I say to him, ‘Better not get him vaccinated.’ If he hears it from 10 other people, maybe he won’t do it, maybe he will save that child.””
Meanwhile, in the real world outside hiking trails filled with anti-vax evangelist stalkers lying in wait to ruin your escape to nature, global immunization efforts have saved at least 154 million lives over the past 50 years.
Do you think that practicing medicine without a license, specifically giving medical advice contrary to the WHO, CDC, and ACIP vaccination schedules that results in harms like paralysis from polio, or death from measles (see Samoa), should constitute criminal malpractice, and expose someone in a major leadership position to liability?
Exactly. No one has held him to account for all the preventable deaths in Samoa, a demonstrable result of spreading vaccine harm rumors unsubstantiated by data, reality, or whatever scientific reference that one wants to use.
The problem with RFK Jr. is that he sounds just authoritative enough that many people decide to believe him even as he mischaracterizes studies, vaccine safety, etc.
For example, RFK Jr. has yet to climb down from his Thimoresal crusade mountain. Out of abundance of caution, Thimoresal was removed from all childhood vaccines (boosting cost). Despite that, autism diagnosis have kept rising. If Thimoresal had been a cause, the opposite should have happened.
And that’s my biggest beef with the guy. He’s not a man of science, he operates on the basis of gut feelings while talking authoritative-sounding gibberish. When the science shows that he’s full of it, he lacks the moral courage to admit it.
Worst of all, he has yet to apologize for or acknowledge that his vaccine skepticism has led to the preventable deaths of a lot of folk in the US and abroad (primarily kids). Never mind the added cost to our healthcare system as kids go into the hospital for treating preventable diseases like whooping cough.
I believe they substituted aluminum for the mercury. Aluminum is also a neurotoxin. And there may well be other causes of autism along with vaccines: ultra processed foods, for example.
Can you show me that claim on a vial label? Because when I look up a Merck MMR ingredients label it prominently mentions NO PRESERVATIVES. If you look at the instructions, you mix a powder from one sterile bottle in another one and that single dose is then injected.
The MMR instructions also admonish the person administrating the vaccine to ensure that the needle / syringe / etc are sterile and free of preservatives / etc so the attenuated virii are not killed en route to the patient.
There simply are not the ingredients you claim there are. Please don’t take my word for it, look it up yourself but not on a vaccine denier website.
Aluminum is used as an adjuvant in vaccines. It’s purpose is to stimulate the immune system into producing antibodies. I’ve never read that aluminum is used as a preservative.
Thimerosal never was used as an adjuvant, its sole job is being a preservative in multi-dose vaccines. Presently, IIRC, only some influenza vaccines use Thimerosal.
The use of aluminum based salts as adjuvants an entirely different topic. Please don’t conflate unrelated ingredients into each other to support your position. See
Where did I say that mercury was used as an adjuvant? I said aluminum is used as an adjuvant and it’s a neurotoxin. There is not a single life form on earth that uses aluminum for any purpose, as say, iron is.
I did not say that mercury in any form was used as an adjuvant.
Sooo he has to account for deaths because he presented his side of a theory with data and facts and figures that differ from yours? Are you the god Constantin of truth, and we need to agree with everything you say? Consensus doesn't equate to the truth there buddy.
Its called a free country and freedom of speech.
PSA, there are low vacation rates in that population all around the world... but I guess its all a white lawyer from DC's fault.
I even disagree with Dr. Offit on some topics, such as whether everyone should get the C19 booster or not.
But as the Supreme Court in the USA noted, there are limits to freedom of speech. Don’t yell “fire!” in a crowded theatre unless there is a fire, etc. Strict scrutiny and all that.
I do hope the WHO, CDC, and RFK Jr. can do something about low “vacation” rates around the world. I definitely need another vacation soon. Cheers mate.
Your link doesn't prove anything? Look at the historic population of pacific islanders, and if they vaccinate in higher or lower rates, before the supposed actions of RFK?
Actually the fire in a theater case has long since been refined, so please don't quote that one. Yes, would you agree with the statement, you can't perpetrate fraudulent statements that cause immediate demonstrable harm? What about where you have competing statements with hard evidence behind them? or if you have opinions that have counter opinions? you still haven't linked him and the direct deaths. that he literally caused him.
So in that statement, you prove, that it isn't RFK but maybe a historical issue that could be causing the people not get vaccinated, so again RFK isn't responsible?
Jeez where did you get yours mate? Our World In Data has statistics on the United States, larger population with higher density than my home of Australia, and notice the stability of case and fatality rates until the introduction of the Measles vaccine roughly 1963: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/measles-cases-and-death-rate?facet=metric
Visual evidence for ya. Vaccines are not the only thing that has helped, but it's the best way to get cases and deaths from a deadly disease right down to zero, like we did with Smallpox, which used to kill untold numbers of people, and left survivors scarred and sometimes blind.
My data is taken from the health records of Western Nations starting in 1880 nearly a half a century before yours begins.
Lets determine who funds ourworldindata; to give us a clue why they reported over the range they chose.. Reported measles death rates havent been as impactful after 1963 as in the nearly full century before it based on the plot from ourworldindata
I dont care about disease cases/incidents I care about mortality. People are supposed to get sick when exposed or when their immune system take a hit - stress - sleep - diet - etc its what happens afterwards that I care about. Your immune system needs exposure/exercise
You are posting wily nily without even looking at the stuff you post. Lets get back to the hackjob ourworldindata (funded by BMGF and GAVI) tried to pull off and my comment
Ill repeat it
>>Also if you bothered to look at the plot of the period they reported measels deaths (a half century after my plots) - it went from 9.3 per 100,000 in 1923 to 0.19 per 100,000 deaths BEFORE the vaccine was put on the market in 1963
So 98% drop before the vaccine was released ... your explaination .. .?
This is fun :D the explanation of the drop before vaccines is due to sanitation, improved standards of living, and better nutrition. That's fantastic. Anyway, I already told you that.
Le sigh, I don't think you read the top of the medium post. I'll quote that one for you, too. It's long.
> Proponents of the anti-vaccine movement will often plot death rates over time as “proof” that vaccines were introduced at a time when they had a negligible effect. However, mortality rates are the incorrect metric when evaluating vaccine effectiveness. Here’s why:
- Disease incidence is the correct metric. Since vaccines are designed to prevent the incidence of disease, rates of disease (morbidity) are the correct metric for evaluating vaccine effectiveness. If vaccines were a drug to treat disease, then case-fatality rates would be the correct metric for evaluation. Measuring vaccine effectiveness by looking at mortality rates only is a bit like measuring contraceptive effectiveness by measuring abortion rates only — it only tells a tiny part of the story.
- Mortality rates do not reflect the true burden of the disease. Survivors of vaccine preventable disease can be maimed for life — think polio and paralysis, mumps and deafness, measles and mental disability, rubella and birth defects. Looking at mortality rates only misses the true burden of the disease. For example, before the introduction of the measles vaccine in the US in the 1960s, there were “only” 400–700 measles deaths a year. However, there were 4,000 cases of measles encephalitis a year (many of which led to neurological complications such as blindness, deafness and mental disability), 150,000 cases of respiratory complications, and 48,000 measles-related hospitalizations a year (which placed a huge financial and emotional burden on families) [1]. Together, these figures added to the motivation to eradicate the disease.
- Numerous factors affect mortality rates. Mortality rates are influenced by socioeconomic status, access to health care, quality of treatment and a wide range of other factors. As these factors change, mortality rates inevitably change. By contrast, as you can see from the graphs below, vaccine preventable disease incidence remained largely constant until the introduction of related vaccines. This may be because airborne diseases (like measles, mumps and rubella) can infect anyone, regardless of socioeconomic status.
- Mortality rates are not more accurate than morbidity rates. Those opposed to vaccination often use the “disease diagnoses are inaccurate” argument as a reason to look at mortality data only. However, the mechanism by which a doctor’s diagnosis suddenly becomes accurate when a patient dies, when he or she was not competent at diagnosing the disease in the first place, is not explained. In fact, death certificates will often be based on preceding diagnoses. Furthermore, as other researchers have noted, disease cases are more likely to be accurate as death certificates were only standardized from the 1960s onward
What, that RFK Jr. is a vaccine skeptic and tells people not to vaccinate? Even your video acknowledges that RFK Jr. was one of many factors leading to vaccine hesitancy which in turn made the island nation more susceptible to measles.
Sorry, until RFK Jr. can put real facts on the table re: the evils of vaccination, I’m going to call him a charlatan. He’s really good at sounding erudite but his misleading use of sources, etc is simply not ethical.
Public Medical systems around the world tried to replicate his thimerosal causes autism claims with large sample populations and could not. Ditto Wakefield, who was subsequently stripped of his Dr. title after the board discovered he doctored his data.
Look, I have lots of sympathy re: autism but until someone shows a definitive cause / effect I’ll listen to the Dr. Offits any day over some quack on YouTube.
Paul Offit needs to agree to a public debate with RFK Jr. Let’s see the actual data from both sides. We need arguments to be presented in a public forum. Also, tell us who funded the studies that Paul Offit is relying on for the source of his data.
Dr. Offit was willing. RFK Jr dodged him for years. Went on Rogan instead, where he knew he'd be able to sound off without qualified pushback. It reminds me of all those people yelling for decades about The War on Christmas, when there clearly isn't one and never has been one. "Why not have a debate... why not have a debate... needs to debate.... should sit down and have a public debate..."
Lets confirm RFKjr and IMMEDIATELY remove the liability shielding vacvine manufacturers enjoy. Then move to have all RCTs performed by independent labs unaffiliated with the pharmaceutical industry where the control is a verified saline solution placebo
Gut the indemnity granted these useless companies. Have RCTs conducted by independent labs where saline placebo is verified to not be the last version of the vaccine
Other countries don't have immunity for vaccine manufacturers and use the same vaccine schedule. Do you know what happens in those countries? They have no compensation for temporally associated table injuries. They are required to go to court, something they can't afford to do typically. This is what RFK jr wants. HE IS A LAWYER. HE WANTS TO SUE. How do you not see this inherent conflict of interest?
Vaccines are tested, usually against saline placebo originally. New versions that have IMPROVED safety and efficacy are then tested against the previous, SAFE vaccine as a placebo. In fact, vaccines now use about TEN TIMES LESS antigens against MORE diseases than we used to. Vaccines have ONLY become safer.
I entirely disagree, because you fundamentally do not understand that which you speak. You repeat talking points given to you by a LAWYER.
Peter McCullough, who is now one of the world's most retracted authors?
Peter McCullough, who just had his board certification revoked?
Simone Gold who defrauded her org?
Simone Gold who was sentenced to prison for participating in an insurrection?
Andrew Kaufman, a Psychologist who says SARS-CoV-2 doesn't exist?
I'm not even going to humor a single other person on your list. The fact you list these three is damning enough and explain exactly how you've been radicalized by quacks who have resorted to grifting ignorant folk such as yourself.
Scientific debate isn't performed in books.
It's conducted in scientific publications and peer-review.
What you've done is confused carefully crafted narratives from contrarian grifters with scientific rigor. No amount of books from these individuals will unseat empirical evidence, reproduced by labs around the world, and debated by experts in scientific and medical literature.
So the list of injuries to vaccines are simply table injuries? If so, why is the liability shield in place?
Let it go through our court system and the discovery process. I dont care what pertains in other countries, am an American.
Notice that ONLY vaccines enjoy liability shielding.
They are the only drugs that do.
Imagine if Vioxx and Phenfen had liability shielding ... After all the deaths and damage they caused before getting pulled off the market.
Guess what it took? Lawsuits and our system of justice.
You are wrong that the initial version of a drug is tested against a saline placebo. Thats incorrect and lie.
And the fact that you think its ok that current RCTs are being conducted with the previous version of a drug as a placebo shows how completely taken and corrupted you are.
You certainly arent concerned about honesty or health
VICP award temporally associate table injuries that are recognized to be potentially caused by vaccines, yes. That is how that works. The fact you didn't know this is really telling.
Claiming you don't care about other countries with IDENTICAL vaccine schedules and NO protections just shows how disingenuous you are. You want us to be like them so it can "go through the court system" when it currently operates like this in other countries and yet nothing has come of it. If you cannot even entertain that fact, you are not a serious person.
Vaccines are a specific type of drug that creates an immune response to a given antigen. To pretend that all drugs are the same and should have the same liability is to ignore the fact that all medical interventions are not the same. It is in Big Pharma's best interest to NOT produce vaccines, because it actually prevents more customers requiring more expensive drugs while severely ill from vaccine-preventable diseases. This is why they were given protections, because they actually had no incentive to prevent diseases, only to treat them. But you apparently cannot comprehend this. Anti-vaxxers are actually Big Pharma's best and most loyal fighters because you want people to need their profitable drugs more!
1954 polio trails were against saline placebo.
1960s Measles vaccine used saline placebo.
1966 Mumps and Rubella vaccines used saline placebo.
1997 Hib & PCV vaccines used buffered saline.
2009 PCV trial also used saline placebo.
MANY flu vaccine trials were conducted with saline placebo.
HPV vaccine was tested against saline placebo.
So, please excuse me when I say
Kindly fuck all the way off with that bullshit. Vaccine have been tested against saline placebo in MANY instances. You simply haven't done the research and, instead, continue to regurgitate the talking points you're fed.
Dr. Offit I wish you were at these hearings as an expert witness! Although a lot of the MAGgAt ilk don’t want to listen to evidence, no matter how strong it is.
oooph. I try to be openminded. But invoking vaclib dot org, mon dieu... GRAPHICAL EVIDENCE SHOWS ANTIVAXXERS CAN MAKE CHARTS IN MACPAINT. [Deep calming breath...] Let me try again, sorry.
“People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.”
Don’t forget about him pushing unpasteurized milk when it’s against CDC’s recommendations to drink it with bird flu being detected in milk. If he gets confirmed, buckle up, because this is going to be a wild ride.
i want to Like this comment for your admirable doing-of-research; yes, he recommended against endless boosting without data to support that strategy. but I can't get behind the repeated appending of the "PR" prefix. He was not on the bandwagon in the first place. He DOES know lots of things we don't - UNTIL WE LISTEN TO HIM say them on his posts, in his interviews on MSM, in his tweets, at public meeetings about vaccine safety, 24/7/365. It seems like the more honest and open he is, the more impervious antisciencers are to hearing or seeing or absorbing anything he says. I could be wrong. But what more can he do? He's doing it. It must feel like pushing string. But he's still trying & I'm grateful for experts like him. Cheers.
Sufferring an adverse reaction and being convinced its "long covid" (vs "short" covid? "gigantic" covid? "infinity" covid maybe "weekly covid" or "buy one get one free" covid)
Then queuing up to take:
Booster 1
Booster 2
Booster 3
Booster 4
Booster 5
Then
Bivalent 1
Bivalent 2
Whats that definition of insanity again? Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.?
imagine paying attention to anything Dr. Offit has said publicly and openly, including recommending AGAINST endless repeat boosters in absence of any data indicating utility, pointing out that COVID is different from flu, voting against booster dosing which weren't supported by any evidence, spelling out every nuance of every problem with the "one size fits all" blanket booster recommendations, patiently accurately explaining his disagreement with the public health strategy of "boost and boost and boost". He actually recommended to his son NOT to get boosted. He is balanced, fair, knowledgable, and honest. Admits promptly when he or the Establishment was wrong (even wrote a book about it: read "The Cutter Incident". What more do y'all want? What will it take? WE'RE listening. Oy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkz1ln5AJ5Q&t=66s
Paxlovid helps, too. It’s hypothesized that viral particles are responsible for long covid, and I feel a lot better after a course of covid and after vaccinations. I’m not the only one.
p.s. thanks for injecting [pun intended] some welcome lightheartedness into this here thread.... yeesh. BTW your fruit fly connectome rendering is the absolute bee's knees!! Wow 🔬🦠🏆
They desperately want to feel special somehow. I can understand that. However there’s nothing special about being wrong all the time. Not to mention the sheer pleurality of anti-vaxxer beliefs: they believe vaccines are one or more of the following non-exhaustive list:
A lab leak
A bioweapon
Nanobots
Mind-control microchips
Neurotoxins
The actual virus itself
Genetically modified organisms
A retrovirus
A completely inert substance that does nothing whatsoever
Jeez, like anything they can think of that maybe sounds scary. It’s like one of my favourite quotes: Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig; das ist nicht einmal falsch (It’s not only not right, it’s not even wrong!), i.e, it’s utter bonkers.
I've got a dear old friend, known her since I was a baby; she believes praying to her late husband can induce YHWH to steer bad weather away from our town. And yet praying to YHWH failed to induce him to spare late husband's life. (He was stridently antivax, btw, never had a flu/COVID shot in his life; which ended suddently and dramatically when he dropped dead of a heart attack in his easy chair one evening - can't blame it on 5G or shedded-spike-proteins-from-vaccinated-people either since he shunned them). Also, bad weather continues with ever increasing intensity and frequency. I don't even bother arguing. I just let the Not Even Wrong wash over me like white noise. 2+ 2 = 5 and the moon is made of Wensleydale. 🤷🏼
really raw anything right? I mean there might be poop on it from the farm down the road, so better to have only food with preservatives(which many are banned in EU) to prevent illness. No one must every experience any Illness.
I don't want to reply to Ms. Caton below because it's not a productive use of time to argue with such folks. So I'll just say I think most people don't understand all that goes into making vaccines (link below). On the other hand, you have people like Vinay Prasad calling for the removal of the liability shield because current vaccines are a big money maker. (Some people call Prasad an anti-vaxxer but if you listen to his podcasts, that's not true. You might know him, Dr. O, as he co-hosts a podcast with your buddy, ZDoggMD). It would be interesting for you to write an article about this topic. Even Prasad admitted on X that removing the liability shield might raise vaccine prices.
As for Kennedy, he obviously will never change his mind about vaccines, no matter how much evidence you provide, as his ego won't allow him to. But it's fair to ask such questions under oath for such an important position. He's a slippery-smart guy who will provide answers that sound plausible enough to a public who has lost trust in government institutions. I suspect he'll be approved, and it will be interesting to see whether new FDA Commissioner Marty Makary stands up to him if he tries to do anything to reduce access to proven vaccines. (Makary is another doc often falsely accused of being anti-vaxx who is also on ZDoggMD a lot). If Makary doesn't stand up to him, or he does and loses, the Washington Post should track not only Trump's lies, but lives lost or disabled due to failure to vaccinate.
1. The CDC takes the position that it is desirable that all diseases be prevented, and that everyone must agree with that position. It phrases its statements misleadingly. Its estimate that 1.1 million deaths have been prevented by routine vaccination in the last thirty years assumes that the mortality rate in those unvaccinated now would be the same as it was before vaccination for a specific disease was introduced. Diphtheria was a horrendous disease a hundred years ago, with high mortality. It can now usually be treated with antibiotics, which had not bern developed yet in the decades of diphtheria epidemics. The pathogen has also been parasitized, which seems to decrease mortality in the rare cases that it occurs in the developed world. It is closely associated with poor living conditions. It is incorrect to use figures true in the US in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries and say that they would be the same now if no one vaxxed. That being said, I highly recommend that parents give their children the DT series after the age of three. But the CDC statement read carefully says that many lives were saved by tetanus and diphtheria vaccination, but for measles it was only large numbers of hospitalizations, whivh are a judgment call. I don’t know why it mentioned varicella. Before the vaccine, there were four million cases a year, with a hundred deaths, fifty in adults, fifty in children. Now we have an explosion of shingles cases from the lack of natural boosters in the environment,
Much the same is true of pertussis. Like diphtheria and measles, it was a killer disease in its day. But pertussis and measles evolved independently to become much less deadly than they had been. They are both now fairly mild diseases. I had measles at six, as 99% of American children did then. It provided the best possible training for the immune system, and prevented many subsequent diseases, including cancer. My thrice-vaccinated (DTaP) daughter got pertussis at eight months old and gave it to me. It was alarming, unpleasant, and long-lasting, but not dangerous. It is sometimes dangerous to newborns in the first two months of life, too young to be vaccinated. They should be kept protected from germ-carriers at home.
2. I agree that SV-40 was a dangerous contaminant, but in the 1950s, they had no means of identifying it. When they did, from the early to mid-sixties, they ensured that it was in no polio vaccines given. Some cancers have been found to contain SV-40, but I think that despite that, and the Cutter incident, the polio vaccine was a huge success. Serotypes 2 and 3 have been eliminated by the polio vaccine, and 1 has almost been eliminated. Rarely are there paralytic cases from ssrotype 2 in the oral vaccine reverting to wildness. Giving two doses of the injected Salk vaccine, then two doses of the oral Sabin vaccine, would be ideal, including in the largely now polio-free Third World. Parents in the developed world could withhold it if they wanted to. No vaccine is safe. But I would advise getting the vaccines right away if polio returned.
3. The Covid vaccine was very dangerous and caused millions of deaths. People can do as they like, but few are getting it now, which is good. The CDC failed to release its V-Safe records for several years because they showed how devastatingly dangerous the vaccine was. Large numbers of Americans say they personally know someone killed by the vaccine. I believe it was probably often effective during the first two years, but not after Omicron.
4. I also talk to the parents of babies about vaccines. None is safe, all activating the immune system in often dangerous ways, including autism, as in my daughter, and MS, as in me. Most are effective, excepting the pertussis, flu, and Covid vaccines. You have to minimize vaccines. I recommend the DT series (no pertussis), after three years old. Two Salk polios and two Sabins, after three, unless polio comes back here. If babies and small children have to be in daycare, which should be avoided, then the Hib and Prevnar series given in separate visits starting at two months old. The Prevnar vaccine is reactive, is dangerous, but pneumococcal disease is often dangerous and common at that age.
You might want to have a chat with my neighbor who lost her brother to measles. Despite living in the first world with access to the best medicine care available in the 1960s before the widespread availability of measles vaccines.
Some kids simply do die from complications associated with measles. Maybe it’s not measles in every case, it can be an opportunistic infection that takes advantage of a body weakened by an active measles infection, such as encephalitis. Etc.
Given a choice between a vaccine with a near infinitesimal probability of complications and the very real chance of losing a kid or it “just” being disfigured later in life due to pustules scarring their face, I simply wonder how parents can credibly prefer one outcome over the other.
Per the link you provided, the FDA is pursuing a line of research that is designed to uncover some issues that MAY exist based on using cell cultures to make vaccines vs. using eggs. None of these issues have been proven to be a valid concern.
Pursuing this kind of research is precisely the kind of stuff the FDA wouldn’t fund if it wanted to work with manufacturers to sweep issues under the rug.
Just like every major EU healthcare system did a before and after re: thimerosal in childhood vaccines and found no correlation re: autism because rates continued to climb.
Look, we can have a serious discussion re: vaccines but only if we debate facts, not feelings.
Ill keep reminding you that ourworldinddata is funded by
Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the GAVI alliance. Ill keep bringing it up - because this is a CONFLICT OF INTEREST
Also if you bothered to look at the plot of the period they reported measels deaths (a half century after my plots) - it went from 9.3 per 100,000 in 1923 to 0.19 per 100,000 deaths BEFORE the vaccine was put on the market in 1963
The fact that vaccines are not the only thing that helps to reduce death rates isn't news, you know that right? But to show data from essentially the improvements in sanitation and living standards as some kind of proof that vaccines don't do anything is absurd and nonsensical. Death and case rates remained stable for years until the introduction of the vaccine, which pushed it much further down. That is the point. That is visual evidence that vaccines work.
>Death and case rates remained stable for years until the introduction of the vaccine, which pushed it much further down. That is the point. That is visual evidence that vaccines work.
If a ball is rolling down the hill and you jump up and down and do a rain dance - does the ball stop rolling down the hill?
If 95% of mortality rates had dropped form 1880s to 1963 before the vaccine appeared - then the vaccine is as irrelevant as Santa Clause showing up at Christmas, Me stubbing my foot under my desk, The easter bunny, Presidental elections, New flavors of ice cream
Mate it reached a plateau in your analogy. The hill slope more or less ended. If your goal was sea level, you're still a long ways off. Vaccines were introduced and blam, look at that drop. Now the ball has a real chance to make it to the beach.
Question number 5: RFK Jr believes that COVID-19 was bioengineered to display low or no infectivity to Jews and Asian people. Could he be questioned on the idiotic view as well?
I don't think he ever claimed to believe that was true; he speculated that it might be the case based on a published scientific paper. He was to answer that question saying that, would you find that a reasonable response?
Let’m have it RFKjr! Offit continues to mis-rely on “CDC” manufactured data. CDC is as discredited as is Offit—Offit has nothing but Ad Hominem attacks!
curtain being pulled back on this vax fanatic. do not vaccinate!
Unfortunately, several national medical professional organizations, such as the AAP, promote the invalidated “gender-affirming care” and its demented ideology which can destroy public trust.
Hepatitis B can be transmitted from the mom to the baby during childbirth. 90% of infants infected will develop long-lasting liver disease and eventually die from it if not given a liver transplant.
When hep b vaccines were developed initially in the 1980s, they were given only to adults. We continued to see infants getting infected and having long-term problems, so a vaccine was developed and given to infants.
Attempts to identify moms who have hep b and help transmission by giving the babies a shot of hep b antibodies were unsuccessful in preventing transmission to the baby.
"A fully healthy mother" is a nice hypothetical. I've been working in pediatrics for over 25 years. Some that look healthy and well have chronic infections, STI's, or drug addiction. Dad's are in the same boat. Sometimes we learn later that dad has those same conditions.
What makes it a red flag? The fact you don’t understand why it is done? There are answers to that question, but I’m guessing you just refuse to believe there are or disagree with the reasoning as an arm-chair scientist who doesn’t know A THING about vaccines, the immune system, epidemiology, Hep B, how it spreads, how it presents (or doesn’t), or a single thing about chronic disease risk.
Do you know what is a REAL “red flag”? The fact you think you know more than experts because your favorite talking head told you what to believe.
Your augment would be more persuasive if you left out the COVID shots. They were rushed and politicized, not very effective and apparently not all that safe especially for healthy young people.
There is a 40 yr's history of the development and safety and efficacy of the mRNA vaccines...a very good reason two of the pioneers received a Noble Peace award
Sweeping statements I agree with, have used the same argument, but it doesn’t address the specific claims made about the Covid 19 vaccine made by Fauci that turned out to be seriously untrue.
Two things can be true at once, modern medicine and sanitation have drastically reduced deaths from ignorance. Things like germ theory and virology, handwashing in hospitals, antibiotics, treating the water, insulin… this alongside crop development, better food distribution… have all been wonderful advancements in general health. But all these things being true don’t erase the real benefits of vaccines.
This graph looks like it’s limited to deaths and only those in Australia. It’s more informative to look at global statistics of infection, serious effects of the disease (paralysis for example) and death. It also curiously omits the most important and pivotal vaccine. The vaccine for smallpox would seriously conflict with this graph.
Let’s look at a few instances of vaccine effectiveness. England and Wales mandated the smallpox vaccine in 1853 and rates of death by smallpox then noticeably dropped. During the smallpox outbreak of the Great Pandemic in 1871 the mandate was enforced by fines and imprisonment and deaths precipitously decreased from 1000 in 1 million in 1871 down to .8 per million by 1898. The same kind of thing was seen during the smallpox outbreak in Yugoslavia in 1972. The rapid outbreak was stopped once vaccines and quarantines were introduced and enforced. In 1988 1000 children per day were paralyzed from polio globally. With a global vaccine drive today it’s now down over 99% from 1988. A microcosm of what is happening with measles (a steady decline in infections until 2016 followed by a sharp rise from 2016 on) is likely illustrated by the 2019 outbreak in Samoa. Due to human error in the medical field two babies died almost immediately after being given the MMR vaccine, a vaccine scare followed leading to a decline in vaccination from 70% to 30%. This was in turn followed by a measles outbreak with 5700 reported cases and 83 deaths. Confidence in vaccines were restored and the outbreak went away.
Not only can the effectiveness of vaccines be seen in history but they can be empirically demonstrated in the lab. The lab work and clinical proof is extensive and must be taken into account.
>Due to human error in the medical field two babies died almost immediately after being given the MMR vaccine, a vaccine scare followed leading to a decline in vaccination from 70% to 30%. This was in turn followed by a measles outbreak with 5700 reported cases and 83 deaths. Confidence in vaccines were restored and the outbreak went awa
Due to human error in the medical field - LOL - thats funny. So only two children have died or suffered adverse events from the MMR (and we should ignore the historical record and VAERS entries and awards by the VICP)_ and we are to take your fantasy story about outbreaks that mysteriously came and went with vaccines.
Here some reality
"Harvard-Westlake students were vaccinated. Dozens caught whooping cough anyway"
Quote: It turns out that four years after someone receives the booster shot in about the seventh grade, the vaccine’s protection nearly vanishes, endangering high schoolers
Great grift for making money. Come back every 4 years. No wonder the poisons have ballooned from recommended 6 when i was young to 70 now. Its a cash cow. Except u bear the liability too
The only path to lifelong immunity is natural infection SANS vaccines. Thats why none of my school aged children are vaccinated for ANYTHING
>England and Wales mandated the smallpox vaccine in 1853 and rates of death by smallpox then noticeably dropped. During the smallpox outbreak of the Great Pandemic in 1871 the mandate was enforced by fines and imprisonment and deaths precipitously decreased from 1000 in 1 million in 1871 down to .8 per million by 1898.
Thats NOT what happened.
Smallpox was actually the birth of the AntiVax movement in Lancaster England. Because it (the vaccine) did the opposite of what you stated. It caused enough deaths to terrify the populace
>The rapid outbreak was stopped once vaccines and quarantines were introduced and enforced. In 1988 1000 children per day were paralyzed from polio globally.
Again a lie. This is utter nonsense. The initial polio vaccine itself was responsible for Acute Paralysis. So much so it was banned outright.
POlio is not a virus - its the debilitating condition caused by DDT and Lead Arsenic pesticides and a graphical plot of its cases tracks the use and ban of these two pesticides
1) M. Biskind, "DDT poisoning and the elusive Virus X". American Journal of Digestive Diseases vol 16 1949
2) J. Gabliks and L. Friedman. "Effects of insectisides on mammalian cells and virus infections", Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences vol 160. 1969
3) F. Burgess and G.R Cameron. "The Toxicity of D.D.T", British Medical Journal vol 1 june 23 1945
Am going to address your points in no particular order - but in snippets
>Two things can be true at once,
Thats NONSENSE.
If 95% of mortality rates had dropped before the advent of vaccines there is nothing else
>This graph looks like it’s limited to deaths and only those in Australia.
It was about record keeping and ACCESS in developed Western Nations. YOu would see similar trends in other Western nations with health ministries and departments who tracked those records from the 1800s
>Not only can the effectiveness of vaccines be seen in history but they can be empirically demonstrated in the lab. The lab work and clinical proof is extensive and must be taken into account.
You are just making up things as you go along at this point.
NO VACCINE in use right now has been tested against an inert saline solution placebo. They are all tested against previous versions of the vaccine under test or against a formulae that includes the active substances in the vaccine under test
If vaccines were truly safe and effective - they would not remain indemnified by the National Childhood Vaccine Act of 1986.
How many vaccine manufacturers are clamouring and lobbying congress to reverse/nullify the liability protection they currently enjoy?
>NO VACCINE in use right now has been tested against an inert saline solution placebo.
You have no idea how vaccines are tested or the ethics of saline placebo trials. Original vaccine formulations were tested against saline placebo. Every re-forumulation has proven SAFER than the last, using less and less antigens to provide better protection against severe disease. All you're doing is regurgitating an idiotic talking point of your beloved lawyer RFK Jr.
>If vaccines were truly safe and effective - they would not remain indemnified by the National Childhood Vaccine Act of 1986.
Other countries do not have such protections and use the same vaccine schedule as us. Curious why that isn't addressed by you and your ilk. Also, these protections include the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) which does not exist in those countries either. In the USA, it's very easy to get compensated for table injuries temporally associated with vaccination. In other countries, you'd need to go to court and prove the vaccine caused the injury. There is a reason VICP exists, and it was fought for by opponents to childhood vaccine mandates. Lawyers like RFK jr and his lawyer Aaron Siri want the ability to sue vaccine manufacturers over injuries to make money. It's an inherent conflict of interest.
>All you're doing is regurgitating an idiotic talking point of your beloved lawyer RFK Jr.
RFKjr is the boogey man that keeps you up at night. He is not even the main reason I got on this bandwagon. I have books on this subject most written by medical doctors - long before I heard of RFKjr. Hes is not alone on this subject
>Other countries do not have such protections and use the same vaccine schedule as us.
Other countries am familiar with do not have mandates for vaccination and childhood school attendance. In either case its irrelevant what other countries do. Am an American am only concerned with what we do.
Your argument boils down to "hey were are doing things wrong but other countries are following us - so that must be right".
>In the USA, it's very easy to get compensated for table injuries temporally associated with vaccination.
Thats an easily provable lie AND YOU KNOW IT
"You can’t sue Pfizer or Moderna if you have severe Covid vaccine side effects. The government likely won’t compensate you for damages either"
You are out to lunch without a clue about what you are talking about. VAERS/VICP skirts our legal system - with less than 1% reports and a severity and time clause that largely makes it impossible to be compensated appropriately. Am not even discussing the cap on compensation - all from revenue we pay for - no loss to the manufacturer no incentive to course correct
On childhood vacccines; I am going to suggest two books on my bookshelf - i am almost certain you have never read
* **"The vaccine Court: The Dark Truth of Americas Vaccine Injury Compensation Program"** by Wayne Rhodes
* **"Vaccine Injuries; Documented Adverse Reactions to Vaccines"** by Louis Conte and Tony Lyons
>Lawyers like RFK jr and his lawyer Aaron Siri want the ability to sue vaccine manufacturers over injuries to make money. It's an inherent conflict of interest.
Now we circle back.
Other countries allow you to sue vaccine manufacturers directly no?
Here is what you said:
>n other countries, you'd need to go to court and prove the vaccine caused the injury
GOOD!!! THATS HOW A JUSTICE SYSTEM SHOULD WORK. You should have to prove the vaccine caused the injury. I am all for that.
So why do we have a chronic health disease crisis in our country while spending the most per capita on healthcare? Why hasn’t this been addressed? Pharmaceutical drugs, and interventions, obviously haven’t improved our health situation.
There appears to be a lot of chronic because so many acute infectious diseases are now controlled by vaccines. Very different story if you look at the 19th century (some diseases were also eliminated with clean water and food standards but by no means all). Airborne diseases like smallpox and measles required vaccines.
If vaccines are all that Paul Offit claims them to be, then it’s time to remove the liability shield just like any other product on the market. Vaccine makers and advocates should have nothing to fear given their confidence in vaccines.
It doesn’t seem like you understand how the VICP works. If families feel like a child was injured, then they can make a claim.
https://www.immunize.org/wp-content/uploads/catg.d/p2075.pdf
If the vaccine manufacturer errs in how the vaccine is made, then they are fined and shut down.
Just make the liability the same as for every other product on the market. There are so make gatekeepers preventing claims and the current system doesn’t allow for discovery. Claiming it’s a system that will prevent moral hazard risk is just not true.
Shut down only happens in the case of fraud. Otherwise, a vaccine injured person or his/her parents sue the HHS Secretary. The case is not heard by a “regular “ federal judge, but rather by a master and the ordinary process that all other litigation follows is NOT followed in these government run vaccine courts. Further, the outlays are limited to measly sums, and the funds are not provided by the vaccine makers but rather by the 25 cent tax placed on each vaccine given. The entire process protects the vaccine makers. It seems to me that vaccines, as manufactured products just like dishwashers and shampoo, should be held liable for any damage caused by the use of the those products by consumers.
The standard of proof is less than what is in civil or criminal litigation. The program was set up to make sure that someone would make vaccines to use in the US.
Before the program, we were close to being unable to find companies to make vaccines to be used in the US.
Unlike shampoo and dishwashers, vaccines save lives and help prevent disability - so having a different system does make sense.
Pharmaceutical companies have liability regarding the drugs that they make. Vaccines should be no different. No other product has this kind of liability shield.
You need to answer your own question and explain why we were close to “being unable to find companies to make vaccines to be used in the United States.” Since the companies got liability protection, they are making billions from their vaccines. Hmmmmmm……
The FDA regularly goes to vaccine and other pharm product factories. If they aren't following good practices on maintaining their equipment OR if they are putting something in vaccine they aren't --- then the FDA closes those factories - makes them destroy what they've made and fines are enacted.
I have friends who work for pharma companies who have described how disruptive it is - but it should be in order to not get glass or rat feces in my atorvastatin or my flu vaccine.
Since SV40 has been found in the covid mRNA shots, why then have they not been shut down? And why were the Pfizer papers originally not going to be published for 75 years until a federal judge ordered them to be released in monthly increments? Hmmmmm? Hiding something maybe?
How about baby formula with mold in it? does the FDA regularly visit those factories, and shut them down when they find it? Why would vaccine manufacturers be treated any different?
The FDA does visit those manufacturers. It would be amazing if Congress would fully fund the FDA so that it could do a better job than it is doing now.
See other answer below for why the VICP was created.
Yup, and how many times did they find violations before shutting them down?
and I was talking about a manufacture that gets a violation citation by the FDA, not the VICP. Keep up..
You are correct.
There are many restrictions and time limits on making a claim. It is rigged in favor of the pharmaceutical companies.
It is a horrible system that pits the plaintiff against the government. Who pays for the compensation? Taxpayers not the manufacturer!
Everything you said is true and factual. Somehow we have to get through to those who are still mesmerized by vaccines. My take is that they are a medical fad that has had a long run, not unlike thalidomide, lobotomies, smoking, refusal to hand wash, and administering Premarin to postmenopausal women to name just a few of medicine’s misguided practices.
What ever the merits of this side discussion your remarks are absurd and the thought that somebody like you would be on a jury deciding about vaccine damage, however many 'expert' witnesses are put on the stand, is exactly why the special arrangements had to be made.
You, as an American have been lucky not to have had Polio, some of us were born in places where we had to bear the brunt of that and other diseases.
"You take", keep it to yourself until you know something about it I would.
You know nothing about that program. There is only one reason to shield a entire field from being held liable for the products that they put out and are expecting humans to have injected into their body.
In a perfect world there would be zero harm & everyone would never have an illness...OMG vaccines save millions of lives & parents don't watch their children die from a preventable disease or be crippled for the remainder of their lives.
Dude, Just stop washing, rinsing, repeating what you hear. Riddle me this. Baby Boomers and GenX on the average had between 3-5 or 6 shots. After GenX, the CDC's recommended shots list ☝🏼 until it's 81 I believe now.
How is it that B.Boomers and GenX share the same spaces as those that came after X YET, we don't fall down w/these deadly diseases you mention, or are lame.
It's time for ppl to quit living in apathy, while these groups of ppl after X are suffering from lings lists of physical &mental issues.
I am not your"dude" I am a licensed healthcare professionals with 2 University degrees & 40 yr's of studying & practicing in the real world of science with factually evidence as opposed to RFK has zero knowledge nor understanding of science & modern medicine...hey you're stuck with him not me, my role is to educate...proud 🇨🇦
Furthermore, My question that I posed, you can't answer it, that's your problem. Healthcare professional, what does that mean? And you don't know jack about me, my age, nor my education. Someone mentioned closed minds, that's your mind. You basically got your feelings hurt, your comment was meant to put me in my place, but you aren't in any position to do that.
I guarantee that I have just as much knowledge as you.
I DID NOT call you MY dude. I don't get my gd knowledge from RFK, Bub.. IDC how many degrees you have, talking about 'modern' anything is a red flag for you. EVIDENCE BASED PRACTICE, ever heard of it.
I'm not some kid that you're going to intimidate into being quiet.
No intimidation 🤔, evidence based info is all I offer to anyone including yourself...I also never referenced you as a kid...end you need not reply unless you choose to act like a kid...your beliefs are yours but you are misinformed
And once again , Muster, tell me what I'm misinformed about. First, you may want to notate that I don't carry takes and you can drop that damn that orefux from anything you wrote to me. 'mis' For the record, I only write what I see, hear, read, for myself.
Soz What is it exactly that you believe I'm lying about?
Dr. Fontaine, thank you for efforts! I worry that arguing with closed minds is taking up too much time from doctors like you and Dr. Offit - and driving up your blood pressure - but I appreciate it. Not sure we can make a dent in their insistence on a false/conspiratorial worldview. Every "hmmm...." makes me want to scream with aggravation. I'm grateful to be "stuck" with actual licensed healthcare professionals (pro-vax pun intended 💉) We're not "mesmerized", we're just good at parsing data 🤗
I am not a Dr...Phm pharmacist, trained & certified in travel medicine, very good understanding of immunology & vaccinations... compelled to help someone understand... albeit shouting into the wind ...thanks
got it - thanks for the correction. (I thought PharmD is technically a doctor). It's been fun trying to come up with more metaphors. Shouting into the wind, pushing string, shoveling fog... those are some of the polite ones 😅
The only closed minds are yours and your pals. Go ahead and scream, you get your hbird flu shot yet? Let me tell about bird flu. The USDA did gain of function on the bird flu (it's not new) and they infected mallard ducks with it. Naw what do you suppose could be the reasoning for that?
Parsing data? Tell me, what data have you parsed? Bc I can tell you, that unless you look at all sides of something, you're not the scholar you believe yourself to be.
So what data have you looked at to have mad you line up for a shot containing m-RNA?
What would really help, is if people would stop believing everything they hear and spreading that information like you just did.
And you, If you're going to accuse someone of something , then you best believe on your A game. What exactlyy did I hear and what exactly am I SPREADING?
You won't get away with this nonsense with me!
You can go off a cliff, Bub. I don't write lies. Keep your head in the same. Or prive what I wrote is a lie. Those are your choices, not writing that I'm a liar. You got that?
Gen X kids did not just get ” 3 to 5 shots”, you are the one who is rinsing and repeating sir. Gen x kids got 4 doses of DTP “12 shots in anti-vax math, although only 4 injections, 4 doses of polio, 1 MMR and maybe smallpox (20 shots in anti-vax math). Today kids get the same DTaP and polio, 1 additional MMR, 2 Hepatitis A, 3 Hepatitis B, 2 doses of Varicella, 4 doses of PCV, 4 doses of HIb, 3 doses of Rotavirus (maybe less depending on brand of HIB and Rotavirus). That’s a total of ~40 “shots” in anti-vax math, not 81, as they would have you believe.
I suggest that you quit making a fool of yourself and open up the CDC's shots list. 81, it may be higher by now since the 'bird flu ' is around. Yeahhhhh.
YOU are wrong. My sister had 4 shots. I had 5. We are both GenX. Listen, when I wrote the number of shots down I wasn't not referring to the same shot multiple times. You got to be kidding me. Don't you dare call me an anti anything, do you understand me! I'm not a damn Sir, and YOU arealing things up.
I can assure you that I didn't get 4 polio anything, 4 doses of DTP, just keep blathering on.
Reading comprehension is your friend.
81 is the number on CDC's shots list, mister.
Plenty of ppl don't get shots. Idk your age and I don't care.
Babies come here very sturdy, no baby needs a help B shot nor do they need a Vitamin K shot. If you want to bury your h ad and not look at the data or listen to any pediatricians, that's on you.
But you don't dare write that I repeat what I hear.
Any day you want to discuss debate a topic, I'm around.
You are the epitome of wash, rinsez, repeat.
Please provide references for your claims that the CDC schedule has 81 shots on the list. I’ve worked in public health for over 15 years. I’m not sure why you are getting so defensive and hateful. Gen X most certainly was given polio vaccine, but it was oral.
I see you moving the goal post as well. I never wrote that GenX didn't get a polio vaccine. I write that they didn't take 4 doses. I remember, you may find that hard to believe, but I do remember taking it.
WHAT? Oh NOOO, you're not going to play that game, Mister..You know what I've been doing for years? Sitting in a fence in the middle of a corn field watching the dumbing down of society. 37 yrs ago, I noticed something going on, it hit me one day, they are deliberately dumbing down humans. My next thought was why? My next thought is for groups of ppl to be easily manipulated. After GenX, Dept of Ed came into existence. They introduced abstract concept teaching, starting in kindergarten. They shoved emphasizing the 3 R's to the back burner. That's also coincidentally the same time, CDC's recommended shots list started☝🏼. And for the 1st time in history, generations are testing lower IQ's than the previous generation.
You can talk down to me, I have a backbone of steel. I see wrong, I say something. That's the way it is supposed to be. So your words of ''I dint why you are getting defensive'' do not ring with any truth. I'm always passionate like this. One thing though, don't ever question my integrity. It's the only thing I own of value besides my sweet furry Choo. I will stand up to anything or anybody over my integrity. I am not a crazed, quack. I've got thousands of hours learning what I didn't already know in a short span of time, but that's okay bc I have an excellent thinking brain and God gives everyone different abilities. He gave me the gift of standing on the outside of the Matrix. I receive energy ((that's where I will leave it for theae purposes ).
The US Federal Gov is CAPTURED. If you're not familiar with this term, it means they do the bidding of the Puppet Masters. They no longer make decisions based on the best interests of US. ( THE PEOPLE)
One other thing, the lists of physical and mental problems of those born after GenX is very noticeable and quite frankly painful to interact with.
Do you or have interacted with what I call the alt-lft? Are you familiar with what's going on in colleges, Universities? Karl Marx's picture is on the some walls, in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. This time period is called individualism, next stop is transhumanism.
Parents gave away their parental authority some years ago. It's the very reason why they get kicked out of school board meetings. The FBI was and is weaponized against citizens of the US. They are the terrorists.
Terrorists -
To use force and intimidation to advance the goals of your political masters.
You will not find that definition unless you have an old dictionary. It was swapped out, not long before US invaded Iraq, remember? Where there were mass weapons of destruction..
Are you aware that the US Fed Gov pays the Taliban a sum of money every week? US FUNDS THE mofo Taliban.
Over 40 million per week.
The Puppet Masters own pharma, the media, energy, and the 3 investment companies own each other.
Black Rock, State Street, & Vanguard.
The Vatican, the London Exchange and Federal Reserve receive money through the NGO's.
We are on our own.
Do you know who is considered to be the grandfather of vaccines?
A burglar fell through a skylight while trying to rob the business
The burglar got hurt.Shoot the owner of the business and won
Our court system is out of control.That's why they have the liability shield
Only vaccine manufacturers are indemnified. That MUST come to an end
It’s the law here that’s the problem, not the courts. Repeal the law; problem solved.
Oh, But the courts are CAPTURED.
And THAT, right there, is why we have the VICP: lawyers.
The VICP took lawyers out of the loop, and made quick settlements, where no one gets filthy rich off of it, possible.
That’s not why at all. President Reagan asked the vaccine makers why just didn’t make safer vaccines and one of the CEOs replied: there’s no such thing as a safe vaccine.” So now the vaccine makers are getting filthy rich from an unsafe product that is mandatory for school attendance. Hmmmmm…….
Tell yourself whatever you have to. While you do that, why don't peruse through some vids of the ppl burn after GenX. Or have a conversation (try to) with some) .
This is chilling, creepy, and predatory:
“You said, “When I see somebody on a hiking trail carrying a little baby, I say to him, ‘Better not get him vaccinated.’ If he hears it from 10 other people, maybe he won’t do it, maybe he will save that child.””
Meanwhile, in the real world outside hiking trails filled with anti-vax evangelist stalkers lying in wait to ruin your escape to nature, global immunization efforts have saved at least 154 million lives over the past 50 years.
https://www.who.int/news/item/24-04-2024-global-immunization-efforts-have-saved-at-least-154-million-lives-over-the-past-50-years
Another question:
Do you think that practicing medicine without a license, specifically giving medical advice contrary to the WHO, CDC, and ACIP vaccination schedules that results in harms like paralysis from polio, or death from measles (see Samoa), should constitute criminal malpractice, and expose someone in a major leadership position to liability?
Exactly. No one has held him to account for all the preventable deaths in Samoa, a demonstrable result of spreading vaccine harm rumors unsubstantiated by data, reality, or whatever scientific reference that one wants to use.
The problem with RFK Jr. is that he sounds just authoritative enough that many people decide to believe him even as he mischaracterizes studies, vaccine safety, etc.
For example, RFK Jr. has yet to climb down from his Thimoresal crusade mountain. Out of abundance of caution, Thimoresal was removed from all childhood vaccines (boosting cost). Despite that, autism diagnosis have kept rising. If Thimoresal had been a cause, the opposite should have happened.
And that’s my biggest beef with the guy. He’s not a man of science, he operates on the basis of gut feelings while talking authoritative-sounding gibberish. When the science shows that he’s full of it, he lacks the moral courage to admit it.
Worst of all, he has yet to apologize for or acknowledge that his vaccine skepticism has led to the preventable deaths of a lot of folk in the US and abroad (primarily kids). Never mind the added cost to our healthcare system as kids go into the hospital for treating preventable diseases like whooping cough.
💪
Facts about the Samoa situation. Listen to Dr Prasad. Kennedy is not responsible. Get your facts straight.
https://youtu.be/rJkAxTzwQgo?si=A2L4rlMJHKB4eLo-
Who says those are the facts? I’ve seen news reports on it.
I believe they substituted aluminum for the mercury. Aluminum is also a neurotoxin. And there may well be other causes of autism along with vaccines: ultra processed foods, for example.
Can you show me that claim on a vial label? Because when I look up a Merck MMR ingredients label it prominently mentions NO PRESERVATIVES. If you look at the instructions, you mix a powder from one sterile bottle in another one and that single dose is then injected.
The MMR instructions also admonish the person administrating the vaccine to ensure that the needle / syringe / etc are sterile and free of preservatives / etc so the attenuated virii are not killed en route to the patient.
There simply are not the ingredients you claim there are. Please don’t take my word for it, look it up yourself but not on a vaccine denier website.
Aluminum is used as an adjuvant in vaccines. It’s purpose is to stimulate the immune system into producing antibodies. I’ve never read that aluminum is used as a preservative.
You claimed that thimerosal was substituted with something out of aluminum. In vaccines, thimerosal was only used as a preservative, see here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal
Furthermore, neither the chicken pox or the MMR vaccine ever contained thimerosal as a preservative. See
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccine-safety/about/thimerosal.html
Thimerosal never was used as an adjuvant, its sole job is being a preservative in multi-dose vaccines. Presently, IIRC, only some influenza vaccines use Thimerosal.
The use of aluminum based salts as adjuvants an entirely different topic. Please don’t conflate unrelated ingredients into each other to support your position. See
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccine-safety/about/adjuvants.html
And
https://www.factcheck.org/2024/04/scicheck-posts-raise-unfounded-concerns-about-aluminum-in-vaccines/
Where did I say that mercury was used as an adjuvant? I said aluminum is used as an adjuvant and it’s a neurotoxin. There is not a single life form on earth that uses aluminum for any purpose, as say, iron is.
I did not say that mercury in any form was used as an adjuvant.
Nothing was conflated.
Do you know anything about vaccines? Maybe learn something and stop spreading incorrect information
Sooo he has to account for deaths because he presented his side of a theory with data and facts and figures that differ from yours? Are you the god Constantin of truth, and we need to agree with everything you say? Consensus doesn't equate to the truth there buddy.
Its called a free country and freedom of speech.
PSA, there are low vacation rates in that population all around the world... but I guess its all a white lawyer from DC's fault.
83 people, mostly children, died in the 2019 Samoan measles. outbreak.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Samoa_measles_outbreak
I even disagree with Dr. Offit on some topics, such as whether everyone should get the C19 booster or not.
But as the Supreme Court in the USA noted, there are limits to freedom of speech. Don’t yell “fire!” in a crowded theatre unless there is a fire, etc. Strict scrutiny and all that.
I do hope the WHO, CDC, and RFK Jr. can do something about low “vacation” rates around the world. I definitely need another vacation soon. Cheers mate.
Your link doesn't prove anything? Look at the historic population of pacific islanders, and if they vaccinate in higher or lower rates, before the supposed actions of RFK?
Actually the fire in a theater case has long since been refined, so please don't quote that one. Yes, would you agree with the statement, you can't perpetrate fraudulent statements that cause immediate demonstrable harm? What about where you have competing statements with hard evidence behind them? or if you have opinions that have counter opinions? you still haven't linked him and the direct deaths. that he literally caused him.
So in that statement, you prove, that it isn't RFK but maybe a historical issue that could be causing the people not get vaccinated, so again RFK isn't responsible?
RFK Jr spread anti-vax propaganda in Samoa.
http://vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
People will sadly discover in time, what they wished for DJT & his cast of delutional syncophants was a social experiment gone wrong ☹️🇨🇦
Watch this video from Dr Vinay Prasad on the facts regarding Samoa.
https://youtu.be/rJkAxTzwQgo?si=A2L4rlMJHKB4eLo-
More lies.
Bullshit. You are a moron
http://vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
95% drop in mortality rates from childhood illnesses before the advent of vaccines
How did you get your medical license?
Jeez where did you get yours mate? Our World In Data has statistics on the United States, larger population with higher density than my home of Australia, and notice the stability of case and fatality rates until the introduction of the Measles vaccine roughly 1963: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/measles-cases-and-death-rate?facet=metric
Visual evidence for ya. Vaccines are not the only thing that has helped, but it's the best way to get cases and deaths from a deadly disease right down to zero, like we did with Smallpox, which used to kill untold numbers of people, and left survivors scarred and sometimes blind.
My data is taken from the health records of Western Nations starting in 1880 nearly a half a century before yours begins.
Lets determine who funds ourworldindata; to give us a clue why they reported over the range they chose.. Reported measles death rates havent been as impactful after 1963 as in the nearly full century before it based on the plot from ourworldindata
https://ourworldindata.org/app/uploads/2023/09/2022-Annual-Report.pdf
Prominent on that list is the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the GAVI alliance.
Conflict of interest much?
I've got more.
https://medium.com/@visualvaccines/graphic-proof-that-vaccines-work-with-sources-61c199429c8c
You know, you can also check the actual source of the data itself in that chart from OWID. They didn't make the data, they just graphed it.
I dont care about disease cases/incidents I care about mortality. People are supposed to get sick when exposed or when their immune system take a hit - stress - sleep - diet - etc its what happens afterwards that I care about. Your immune system needs exposure/exercise
You are posting wily nily without even looking at the stuff you post. Lets get back to the hackjob ourworldindata (funded by BMGF and GAVI) tried to pull off and my comment
Ill repeat it
>>Also if you bothered to look at the plot of the period they reported measels deaths (a half century after my plots) - it went from 9.3 per 100,000 in 1923 to 0.19 per 100,000 deaths BEFORE the vaccine was put on the market in 1963
So 98% drop before the vaccine was released ... your explaination .. .?
This is fun :D the explanation of the drop before vaccines is due to sanitation, improved standards of living, and better nutrition. That's fantastic. Anyway, I already told you that.
Le sigh, I don't think you read the top of the medium post. I'll quote that one for you, too. It's long.
> Proponents of the anti-vaccine movement will often plot death rates over time as “proof” that vaccines were introduced at a time when they had a negligible effect. However, mortality rates are the incorrect metric when evaluating vaccine effectiveness. Here’s why:
- Disease incidence is the correct metric. Since vaccines are designed to prevent the incidence of disease, rates of disease (morbidity) are the correct metric for evaluating vaccine effectiveness. If vaccines were a drug to treat disease, then case-fatality rates would be the correct metric for evaluation. Measuring vaccine effectiveness by looking at mortality rates only is a bit like measuring contraceptive effectiveness by measuring abortion rates only — it only tells a tiny part of the story.
- Mortality rates do not reflect the true burden of the disease. Survivors of vaccine preventable disease can be maimed for life — think polio and paralysis, mumps and deafness, measles and mental disability, rubella and birth defects. Looking at mortality rates only misses the true burden of the disease. For example, before the introduction of the measles vaccine in the US in the 1960s, there were “only” 400–700 measles deaths a year. However, there were 4,000 cases of measles encephalitis a year (many of which led to neurological complications such as blindness, deafness and mental disability), 150,000 cases of respiratory complications, and 48,000 measles-related hospitalizations a year (which placed a huge financial and emotional burden on families) [1]. Together, these figures added to the motivation to eradicate the disease.
- Numerous factors affect mortality rates. Mortality rates are influenced by socioeconomic status, access to health care, quality of treatment and a wide range of other factors. As these factors change, mortality rates inevitably change. By contrast, as you can see from the graphs below, vaccine preventable disease incidence remained largely constant until the introduction of related vaccines. This may be because airborne diseases (like measles, mumps and rubella) can infect anyone, regardless of socioeconomic status.
- Mortality rates are not more accurate than morbidity rates. Those opposed to vaccination often use the “disease diagnoses are inaccurate” argument as a reason to look at mortality data only. However, the mechanism by which a doctor’s diagnosis suddenly becomes accurate when a patient dies, when he or she was not competent at diagnosing the disease in the first place, is not explained. In fact, death certificates will often be based on preceding diagnoses. Furthermore, as other researchers have noted, disease cases are more likely to be accurate as death certificates were only standardized from the 1960s onward
Here is an excellent video from Dr Vinay Prasad regarding Samoa. Get your facts straight
https://youtu.be/rJkAxTzwQgo?si=A2L4rlMJHKB4eLo-
What, that RFK Jr. is a vaccine skeptic and tells people not to vaccinate? Even your video acknowledges that RFK Jr. was one of many factors leading to vaccine hesitancy which in turn made the island nation more susceptible to measles.
Sorry, until RFK Jr. can put real facts on the table re: the evils of vaccination, I’m going to call him a charlatan. He’s really good at sounding erudite but his misleading use of sources, etc is simply not ethical.
Public Medical systems around the world tried to replicate his thimerosal causes autism claims with large sample populations and could not. Ditto Wakefield, who was subsequently stripped of his Dr. title after the board discovered he doctored his data.
Look, I have lots of sympathy re: autism but until someone shows a definitive cause / effect I’ll listen to the Dr. Offits any day over some quack on YouTube.
Excellent and Prasad cannot be used in the same sentence. He’s a joke:
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/gaslighting-rfk-jr-s-role-in-the-deadly-samoan-measles-outbreak/
Excellent commentary, thank you.
Paul Offit needs to agree to a public debate with RFK Jr. Let’s see the actual data from both sides. We need arguments to be presented in a public forum. Also, tell us who funded the studies that Paul Offit is relying on for the source of his data.
Oh puhleeze. Conspiracy theories everywhere.
Please let us know What do you think is a conspiracy theory in my comment
You can access all the data the ACIP uses to decode vaccine policy. You can watch videos on their website, and you can apply to attend.
https://www.cdc.gov/acip/index.html
RFK is ill-equipped to evaluate medical studies and misrepresented how the process of vaccine development occurs.
"Let’s see the actual data"
You just saw it. Did you READ the original post?
Did you read what I just wrote?
I said present the data in a public forum with conversation back-and-forth between RFK and Paul Offit
Yes, of course I did, and that isn’t what you wrote. You wrote, “Let’s see the actual data.”
You’ve already seen it. It's right there in the OP.
I also wrote that the data needs to be discussed in a public forum.
Well -- this, right here, is a public forum.
You've seen the data.
Now let's see if RFKj responds.
Yes, the public needs and deserves to see a debate.
Offit should have debated Kennedy a long time ago.
Dr. Offit was willing. RFK Jr dodged him for years. Went on Rogan instead, where he knew he'd be able to sound off without qualified pushback. It reminds me of all those people yelling for decades about The War on Christmas, when there clearly isn't one and never has been one. "Why not have a debate... why not have a debate... needs to debate.... should sit down and have a public debate..."
Say It Enough And It Sound Right
Say It Enough And It Sound Right
Say It Enough And It Sound Right
Lets confirm RFK and do more safety studies on vaccines.
Lets confirm RFKjr and IMMEDIATELY remove the liability shielding vacvine manufacturers enjoy. Then move to have all RCTs performed by independent labs unaffiliated with the pharmaceutical industry where the control is a verified saline solution placebo
“Let’s keep repeating what we’re told”
“Let’s disregard all of these things exist, but we’re too dumb to research for ourselves”
“Let’s pretend that VICP doesn’t exist for a reason”
Gut the indemnity granted these useless companies. Have RCTs conducted by independent labs where saline placebo is verified to not be the last version of the vaccine
Am sure youll agree
Other countries don't have immunity for vaccine manufacturers and use the same vaccine schedule. Do you know what happens in those countries? They have no compensation for temporally associated table injuries. They are required to go to court, something they can't afford to do typically. This is what RFK jr wants. HE IS A LAWYER. HE WANTS TO SUE. How do you not see this inherent conflict of interest?
Vaccines are tested, usually against saline placebo originally. New versions that have IMPROVED safety and efficacy are then tested against the previous, SAFE vaccine as a placebo. In fact, vaccines now use about TEN TIMES LESS antigens against MORE diseases than we used to. Vaccines have ONLY become safer.
I entirely disagree, because you fundamentally do not understand that which you speak. You repeat talking points given to you by a LAWYER.
I didnt learn any of this from RFKjr.
The books in my bookshelf that inform my opinion on this subject are written by medical doctors in public and private practice; such as
Dr Peter McCullough
Dr Suzanne Humpheries
Dr Thomas Cowan
Dr Vernon Coleman
Dr Robert Mendelssohn
Dr Collen Huber
Dr Simone Gold
Dr Claus Kohnlien
Dr Samantha Bailey
Dr Abdrew Kaufman
Just to list a few
Peter McCullough, who is now one of the world's most retracted authors?
Peter McCullough, who just had his board certification revoked?
Simone Gold who defrauded her org?
Simone Gold who was sentenced to prison for participating in an insurrection?
Andrew Kaufman, a Psychologist who says SARS-CoV-2 doesn't exist?
I'm not even going to humor a single other person on your list. The fact you list these three is damning enough and explain exactly how you've been radicalized by quacks who have resorted to grifting ignorant folk such as yourself.
Scientific debate isn't performed in books.
It's conducted in scientific publications and peer-review.
What you've done is confused carefully crafted narratives from contrarian grifters with scientific rigor. No amount of books from these individuals will unseat empirical evidence, reproduced by labs around the world, and debated by experts in scientific and medical literature.
So the list of injuries to vaccines are simply table injuries? If so, why is the liability shield in place?
Let it go through our court system and the discovery process. I dont care what pertains in other countries, am an American.
Notice that ONLY vaccines enjoy liability shielding.
They are the only drugs that do.
Imagine if Vioxx and Phenfen had liability shielding ... After all the deaths and damage they caused before getting pulled off the market.
Guess what it took? Lawsuits and our system of justice.
You are wrong that the initial version of a drug is tested against a saline placebo. Thats incorrect and lie.
And the fact that you think its ok that current RCTs are being conducted with the previous version of a drug as a placebo shows how completely taken and corrupted you are.
You certainly arent concerned about honesty or health
VICP award temporally associate table injuries that are recognized to be potentially caused by vaccines, yes. That is how that works. The fact you didn't know this is really telling.
Claiming you don't care about other countries with IDENTICAL vaccine schedules and NO protections just shows how disingenuous you are. You want us to be like them so it can "go through the court system" when it currently operates like this in other countries and yet nothing has come of it. If you cannot even entertain that fact, you are not a serious person.
Vaccines are a specific type of drug that creates an immune response to a given antigen. To pretend that all drugs are the same and should have the same liability is to ignore the fact that all medical interventions are not the same. It is in Big Pharma's best interest to NOT produce vaccines, because it actually prevents more customers requiring more expensive drugs while severely ill from vaccine-preventable diseases. This is why they were given protections, because they actually had no incentive to prevent diseases, only to treat them. But you apparently cannot comprehend this. Anti-vaxxers are actually Big Pharma's best and most loyal fighters because you want people to need their profitable drugs more!
1954 polio trails were against saline placebo.
1960s Measles vaccine used saline placebo.
1966 Mumps and Rubella vaccines used saline placebo.
1997 Hib & PCV vaccines used buffered saline.
2009 PCV trial also used saline placebo.
MANY flu vaccine trials were conducted with saline placebo.
HPV vaccine was tested against saline placebo.
So, please excuse me when I say
Kindly fuck all the way off with that bullshit. Vaccine have been tested against saline placebo in MANY instances. You simply haven't done the research and, instead, continue to regurgitate the talking points you're fed.
How would you recommend that a vaccine be evaluated?
LOL! Offit cites “CDC estimates!” He should be embrassed
PR-offit. The PR is silent
The CDC needs a complete overhaul.
Dr. Offit I wish you were at these hearings as an expert witness! Although a lot of the MAGgAt ilk don’t want to listen to evidence, no matter how strong it is.
Most Republicans aren’t anti-vax. They congregate on this site because Offit apparently doesn’t have time to ban them.
http://vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
Thats your evidence right there
Lol. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/measles-cases-and-death-rate?facet=metric
Measles vaccine introduced in around 1963.
There's your evidence.
oooph. I try to be openminded. But invoking vaclib dot org, mon dieu... GRAPHICAL EVIDENCE SHOWS ANTIVAXXERS CAN MAKE CHARTS IN MACPAINT. [Deep calming breath...] Let me try again, sorry.
“People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.”
― Søren Kierkegaard
Zut allors hahaha holy shit macpaint that’s an oldie <3
And 98% mortality rate decline before the vaccine was introduced in your BMGF/GAVI graph. Or did you miss that?
Don’t forget about him pushing unpasteurized milk when it’s against CDC’s recommendations to drink it with bird flu being detected in milk. If he gets confirmed, buckle up, because this is going to be a wild ride.
Bird flu is another gain-of-function research created pathogen.
Something is wrong with the mass of you pro-vaccine idiots.
Where you asleep the last 4 years ?
No I was on a covid deathbed and had profound long covid until I took my 2nd Pfizer vaccine. Yale University. Cheers! https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/vaccines-long-covid
https://covidreason.substack.com/p/paul-offit-im-not-getting-this-years
<https://covidreason.substack.com/p/paul-offit-im-not-getting-this-years>
So even PR-offit is getting *off* the booster-for-life band wagon. Does he know something YOU DONT ?
i want to Like this comment for your admirable doing-of-research; yes, he recommended against endless boosting without data to support that strategy. but I can't get behind the repeated appending of the "PR" prefix. He was not on the bandwagon in the first place. He DOES know lots of things we don't - UNTIL WE LISTEN TO HIM say them on his posts, in his interviews on MSM, in his tweets, at public meeetings about vaccine safety, 24/7/365. It seems like the more honest and open he is, the more impervious antisciencers are to hearing or seeing or absorbing anything he says. I could be wrong. But what more can he do? He's doing it. It must feel like pushing string. But he's still trying & I'm grateful for experts like him. Cheers.
Imagine
Taking a jab then another
Sufferring an adverse reaction and being convinced its "long covid" (vs "short" covid? "gigantic" covid? "infinity" covid maybe "weekly covid" or "buy one get one free" covid)
Then queuing up to take:
Booster 1
Booster 2
Booster 3
Booster 4
Booster 5
Then
Bivalent 1
Bivalent 2
Whats that definition of insanity again? Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.?
Darwin Award winners; you lot. Its comedy
imagine paying attention to anything Dr. Offit has said publicly and openly, including recommending AGAINST endless repeat boosters in absence of any data indicating utility, pointing out that COVID is different from flu, voting against booster dosing which weren't supported by any evidence, spelling out every nuance of every problem with the "one size fits all" blanket booster recommendations, patiently accurately explaining his disagreement with the public health strategy of "boost and boost and boost". He actually recommended to his son NOT to get boosted. He is balanced, fair, knowledgable, and honest. Admits promptly when he or the Establishment was wrong (even wrote a book about it: read "The Cutter Incident". What more do y'all want? What will it take? WE'RE listening. Oy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkz1ln5AJ5Q&t=66s
So you are confessing publicly that; you are not very bright
so you had prolonged covid, which they haven't figured out why, but an immune response to spike proteins created by your body fixed it magically?
Paxlovid helps, too. It’s hypothesized that viral particles are responsible for long covid, and I feel a lot better after a course of covid and after vaccinations. I’m not the only one.
Golly gee, another bioweapon, you say? Maybe the common cold is a bioweapon too. Chickenpox? Measles. Rabies?
MAYBE THE BACTERIA IN THE PRIMORDIAL OCEANS WERE ALL BIOWEAPONS TOO, 4 BILLION YEARS AGO!
p.s. thanks for injecting [pun intended] some welcome lightheartedness into this here thread.... yeesh. BTW your fruit fly connectome rendering is the absolute bee's knees!! Wow 🔬🦠🏆
BACTERIA! BACTERIA! When Bacteria dominated the Earth and there WERE... NO... HUMANS! 😅
https://youtu.be/i7enD82fw6o
Holy shit this is the trippiest thing I have ever seen and I LOVE IT
This mentality of people are very prone to believing conspiracy theories.
They desperately want to feel special somehow. I can understand that. However there’s nothing special about being wrong all the time. Not to mention the sheer pleurality of anti-vaxxer beliefs: they believe vaccines are one or more of the following non-exhaustive list:
A lab leak
A bioweapon
Nanobots
Mind-control microchips
Neurotoxins
The actual virus itself
Genetically modified organisms
A retrovirus
A completely inert substance that does nothing whatsoever
Jeez, like anything they can think of that maybe sounds scary. It’s like one of my favourite quotes: Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig; das ist nicht einmal falsch (It’s not only not right, it’s not even wrong!), i.e, it’s utter bonkers.
"Es gibt keinen Gott und Dirac ist sein Prophet"!
I've got a dear old friend, known her since I was a baby; she believes praying to her late husband can induce YHWH to steer bad weather away from our town. And yet praying to YHWH failed to induce him to spare late husband's life. (He was stridently antivax, btw, never had a flu/COVID shot in his life; which ended suddently and dramatically when he dropped dead of a heart attack in his easy chair one evening - can't blame it on 5G or shedded-spike-proteins-from-vaccinated-people either since he shunned them). Also, bad weather continues with ever increasing intensity and frequency. I don't even bother arguing. I just let the Not Even Wrong wash over me like white noise. 2+ 2 = 5 and the moon is made of Wensleydale. 🤷🏼
really raw anything right? I mean there might be poop on it from the farm down the road, so better to have only food with preservatives(which many are banned in EU) to prevent illness. No one must every experience any Illness.
I don't want to reply to Ms. Caton below because it's not a productive use of time to argue with such folks. So I'll just say I think most people don't understand all that goes into making vaccines (link below). On the other hand, you have people like Vinay Prasad calling for the removal of the liability shield because current vaccines are a big money maker. (Some people call Prasad an anti-vaxxer but if you listen to his podcasts, that's not true. You might know him, Dr. O, as he co-hosts a podcast with your buddy, ZDoggMD). It would be interesting for you to write an article about this topic. Even Prasad admitted on X that removing the liability shield might raise vaccine prices.
As for Kennedy, he obviously will never change his mind about vaccines, no matter how much evidence you provide, as his ego won't allow him to. But it's fair to ask such questions under oath for such an important position. He's a slippery-smart guy who will provide answers that sound plausible enough to a public who has lost trust in government institutions. I suspect he'll be approved, and it will be interesting to see whether new FDA Commissioner Marty Makary stands up to him if he tries to do anything to reduce access to proven vaccines. (Makary is another doc often falsely accused of being anti-vaxx who is also on ZDoggMD a lot). If Makary doesn't stand up to him, or he does and loses, the Washington Post should track not only Trump's lies, but lives lost or disabled due to failure to vaccinate.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5518734/
I have a feeling Kennedy was involved in recommending Marty Makary. They respect each other. Here is an another good video by Vinay Prasad.
https://youtu.be/rJkAxTzwQgo?si=A2L4rlMJHKB4eLo-
lol! Offit desperate!
1. The CDC takes the position that it is desirable that all diseases be prevented, and that everyone must agree with that position. It phrases its statements misleadingly. Its estimate that 1.1 million deaths have been prevented by routine vaccination in the last thirty years assumes that the mortality rate in those unvaccinated now would be the same as it was before vaccination for a specific disease was introduced. Diphtheria was a horrendous disease a hundred years ago, with high mortality. It can now usually be treated with antibiotics, which had not bern developed yet in the decades of diphtheria epidemics. The pathogen has also been parasitized, which seems to decrease mortality in the rare cases that it occurs in the developed world. It is closely associated with poor living conditions. It is incorrect to use figures true in the US in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries and say that they would be the same now if no one vaxxed. That being said, I highly recommend that parents give their children the DT series after the age of three. But the CDC statement read carefully says that many lives were saved by tetanus and diphtheria vaccination, but for measles it was only large numbers of hospitalizations, whivh are a judgment call. I don’t know why it mentioned varicella. Before the vaccine, there were four million cases a year, with a hundred deaths, fifty in adults, fifty in children. Now we have an explosion of shingles cases from the lack of natural boosters in the environment,
Much the same is true of pertussis. Like diphtheria and measles, it was a killer disease in its day. But pertussis and measles evolved independently to become much less deadly than they had been. They are both now fairly mild diseases. I had measles at six, as 99% of American children did then. It provided the best possible training for the immune system, and prevented many subsequent diseases, including cancer. My thrice-vaccinated (DTaP) daughter got pertussis at eight months old and gave it to me. It was alarming, unpleasant, and long-lasting, but not dangerous. It is sometimes dangerous to newborns in the first two months of life, too young to be vaccinated. They should be kept protected from germ-carriers at home.
2. I agree that SV-40 was a dangerous contaminant, but in the 1950s, they had no means of identifying it. When they did, from the early to mid-sixties, they ensured that it was in no polio vaccines given. Some cancers have been found to contain SV-40, but I think that despite that, and the Cutter incident, the polio vaccine was a huge success. Serotypes 2 and 3 have been eliminated by the polio vaccine, and 1 has almost been eliminated. Rarely are there paralytic cases from ssrotype 2 in the oral vaccine reverting to wildness. Giving two doses of the injected Salk vaccine, then two doses of the oral Sabin vaccine, would be ideal, including in the largely now polio-free Third World. Parents in the developed world could withhold it if they wanted to. No vaccine is safe. But I would advise getting the vaccines right away if polio returned.
3. The Covid vaccine was very dangerous and caused millions of deaths. People can do as they like, but few are getting it now, which is good. The CDC failed to release its V-Safe records for several years because they showed how devastatingly dangerous the vaccine was. Large numbers of Americans say they personally know someone killed by the vaccine. I believe it was probably often effective during the first two years, but not after Omicron.
4. I also talk to the parents of babies about vaccines. None is safe, all activating the immune system in often dangerous ways, including autism, as in my daughter, and MS, as in me. Most are effective, excepting the pertussis, flu, and Covid vaccines. You have to minimize vaccines. I recommend the DT series (no pertussis), after three years old. Two Salk polios and two Sabins, after three, unless polio comes back here. If babies and small children have to be in daycare, which should be avoided, then the Hib and Prevnar series given in separate visits starting at two months old. The Prevnar vaccine is reactive, is dangerous, but pneumococcal disease is often dangerous and common at that age.
You might want to have a chat with my neighbor who lost her brother to measles. Despite living in the first world with access to the best medicine care available in the 1960s before the widespread availability of measles vaccines.
Some kids simply do die from complications associated with measles. Maybe it’s not measles in every case, it can be an opportunistic infection that takes advantage of a body weakened by an active measles infection, such as encephalitis. Etc.
Given a choice between a vaccine with a near infinitesimal probability of complications and the very real chance of losing a kid or it “just” being disfigured later in life due to pustules scarring their face, I simply wonder how parents can credibly prefer one outcome over the other.
Per the link you provided, the FDA is pursuing a line of research that is designed to uncover some issues that MAY exist based on using cell cultures to make vaccines vs. using eggs. None of these issues have been proven to be a valid concern.
Pursuing this kind of research is precisely the kind of stuff the FDA wouldn’t fund if it wanted to work with manufacturers to sweep issues under the rug.
Just like every major EU healthcare system did a before and after re: thimerosal in childhood vaccines and found no correlation re: autism because rates continued to climb.
Look, we can have a serious discussion re: vaccines but only if we debate facts, not feelings.
The FDA is continuing this investigation. They know vaccines are contaminated with cancer, causing ingredients.
https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/science-research-biologics/investigating-viruses-cells-used-make-vaccines-and-evaluating-potential-threat-posed-transmission
They’re talking about potential problem.
The CDC is lying. Its a corrupt organization from the ground up.
http://vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
Deaths due to childhood illnesses had declined by 95% before vaccines were introduced.
Thats Why the CDC reguses to do a vax vs unvax study
You keep going around with this absurd website link with dodgy data sets. So I'm gonna keep replying with Our World In Data on measles in the US, vaccine introduced around 1963: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/measles-cases-and-death-rate?facet=metric
And I'll add this one for good measure: https://medium.com/@visualvaccines/graphic-proof-that-vaccines-work-with-sources-61c199429c8c
Ill keep reminding you that ourworldinddata is funded by
Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the GAVI alliance. Ill keep bringing it up - because this is a CONFLICT OF INTEREST
Also if you bothered to look at the plot of the period they reported measels deaths (a half century after my plots) - it went from 9.3 per 100,000 in 1923 to 0.19 per 100,000 deaths BEFORE the vaccine was put on the market in 1963
The fact that vaccines are not the only thing that helps to reduce death rates isn't news, you know that right? But to show data from essentially the improvements in sanitation and living standards as some kind of proof that vaccines don't do anything is absurd and nonsensical. Death and case rates remained stable for years until the introduction of the vaccine, which pushed it much further down. That is the point. That is visual evidence that vaccines work.
>Death and case rates remained stable for years until the introduction of the vaccine, which pushed it much further down. That is the point. That is visual evidence that vaccines work.
If a ball is rolling down the hill and you jump up and down and do a rain dance - does the ball stop rolling down the hill?
If 95% of mortality rates had dropped form 1880s to 1963 before the vaccine appeared - then the vaccine is as irrelevant as Santa Clause showing up at Christmas, Me stubbing my foot under my desk, The easter bunny, Presidental elections, New flavors of ice cream
So like this here, this should illustrate it well: https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:720/format:webp/1*r54fbVo0iUEJ5zAN4ku6EA.png
Ew, medium link again, but that's starting from 1912, notice the plateau goes on and on until the 1960s
Mate it reached a plateau in your analogy. The hill slope more or less ended. If your goal was sea level, you're still a long ways off. Vaccines were introduced and blam, look at that drop. Now the ball has a real chance to make it to the beach.
It's a beach ball!
Question number 5: RFK Jr believes that COVID-19 was bioengineered to display low or no infectivity to Jews and Asian people. Could he be questioned on the idiotic view as well?
I don't think he ever claimed to believe that was true; he speculated that it might be the case based on a published scientific paper. He was to answer that question saying that, would you find that a reasonable response?
Let’m have it RFKjr! Offit continues to mis-rely on “CDC” manufactured data. CDC is as discredited as is Offit—Offit has nothing but Ad Hominem attacks!
curtain being pulled back on this vax fanatic. do not vaccinate!
My friend, do you know what "ad-hominem" means?
He had not made any ad hominem attacks.
PR-offit. The PR is silent
Unfortunately, several national medical professional organizations, such as the AAP, promote the invalidated “gender-affirming care” and its demented ideology which can destroy public trust.
Why do we give a newborn a Hep B vaccine a few hours after birth? Taking into account a healthy fully vaccinated mother. This is a red flag.
Hepatitis B can be transmitted from the mom to the baby during childbirth. 90% of infants infected will develop long-lasting liver disease and eventually die from it if not given a liver transplant.
https://www.cdc.gov/hepatitis-b/hcp/clinical-overview/index.html
When hep b vaccines were developed initially in the 1980s, they were given only to adults. We continued to see infants getting infected and having long-term problems, so a vaccine was developed and given to infants.
Attempts to identify moms who have hep b and help transmission by giving the babies a shot of hep b antibodies were unsuccessful in preventing transmission to the baby.
"A fully healthy mother" is a nice hypothetical. I've been working in pediatrics for over 25 years. Some that look healthy and well have chronic infections, STI's, or drug addiction. Dad's are in the same boat. Sometimes we learn later that dad has those same conditions.
What makes it a red flag? The fact you don’t understand why it is done? There are answers to that question, but I’m guessing you just refuse to believe there are or disagree with the reasoning as an arm-chair scientist who doesn’t know A THING about vaccines, the immune system, epidemiology, Hep B, how it spreads, how it presents (or doesn’t), or a single thing about chronic disease risk.
Do you know what is a REAL “red flag”? The fact you think you know more than experts because your favorite talking head told you what to believe.
Your augment would be more persuasive if you left out the COVID shots. They were rushed and politicized, not very effective and apparently not all that safe especially for healthy young people.
There is a 40 yr's history of the development and safety and efficacy of the mRNA vaccines...a very good reason two of the pioneers received a Noble Peace award
Sweeping statements I agree with, have used the same argument, but it doesn’t address the specific claims made about the Covid 19 vaccine made by Fauci that turned out to be seriously untrue.
http://vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
There is no such thing as a safe or effective vaccine. There NEVER was
Aaaand here we are again. This time I've got another link for ya: https://medium.com/@visualvaccines/graphic-proof-that-vaccines-work-with-sources-61c199429c8c
Two things can be true at once, modern medicine and sanitation have drastically reduced deaths from ignorance. Things like germ theory and virology, handwashing in hospitals, antibiotics, treating the water, insulin… this alongside crop development, better food distribution… have all been wonderful advancements in general health. But all these things being true don’t erase the real benefits of vaccines.
This graph looks like it’s limited to deaths and only those in Australia. It’s more informative to look at global statistics of infection, serious effects of the disease (paralysis for example) and death. It also curiously omits the most important and pivotal vaccine. The vaccine for smallpox would seriously conflict with this graph.
Let’s look at a few instances of vaccine effectiveness. England and Wales mandated the smallpox vaccine in 1853 and rates of death by smallpox then noticeably dropped. During the smallpox outbreak of the Great Pandemic in 1871 the mandate was enforced by fines and imprisonment and deaths precipitously decreased from 1000 in 1 million in 1871 down to .8 per million by 1898. The same kind of thing was seen during the smallpox outbreak in Yugoslavia in 1972. The rapid outbreak was stopped once vaccines and quarantines were introduced and enforced. In 1988 1000 children per day were paralyzed from polio globally. With a global vaccine drive today it’s now down over 99% from 1988. A microcosm of what is happening with measles (a steady decline in infections until 2016 followed by a sharp rise from 2016 on) is likely illustrated by the 2019 outbreak in Samoa. Due to human error in the medical field two babies died almost immediately after being given the MMR vaccine, a vaccine scare followed leading to a decline in vaccination from 70% to 30%. This was in turn followed by a measles outbreak with 5700 reported cases and 83 deaths. Confidence in vaccines were restored and the outbreak went away.
Not only can the effectiveness of vaccines be seen in history but they can be empirically demonstrated in the lab. The lab work and clinical proof is extensive and must be taken into account.
>Due to human error in the medical field two babies died almost immediately after being given the MMR vaccine, a vaccine scare followed leading to a decline in vaccination from 70% to 30%. This was in turn followed by a measles outbreak with 5700 reported cases and 83 deaths. Confidence in vaccines were restored and the outbreak went awa
Due to human error in the medical field - LOL - thats funny. So only two children have died or suffered adverse events from the MMR (and we should ignore the historical record and VAERS entries and awards by the VICP)_ and we are to take your fantasy story about outbreaks that mysteriously came and went with vaccines.
Here some reality
"Harvard-Westlake students were vaccinated. Dozens caught whooping cough anyway"
https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-ln-whooping-cough-vaccine-20190316-story.html
You think polio isn’t caused by a virus?
We are going off facts - not what I think
And the microscopic images of the polio virus?
Quote: It turns out that four years after someone receives the booster shot in about the seventh grade, the vaccine’s protection nearly vanishes, endangering high schoolers
Great grift for making money. Come back every 4 years. No wonder the poisons have ballooned from recommended 6 when i was young to 70 now. Its a cash cow. Except u bear the liability too
The only path to lifelong immunity is natural infection SANS vaccines. Thats why none of my school aged children are vaccinated for ANYTHING
>England and Wales mandated the smallpox vaccine in 1853 and rates of death by smallpox then noticeably dropped. During the smallpox outbreak of the Great Pandemic in 1871 the mandate was enforced by fines and imprisonment and deaths precipitously decreased from 1000 in 1 million in 1871 down to .8 per million by 1898.
Thats NOT what happened.
Smallpox was actually the birth of the AntiVax movement in Lancaster England. Because it (the vaccine) did the opposite of what you stated. It caused enough deaths to terrify the populace
You can read all about it here
https://lettreelectronique.wordpress.com/2021/11/25/mises-wiresmallpox-the-historical-myths-behind-mandatory-vaccines/
>The rapid outbreak was stopped once vaccines and quarantines were introduced and enforced. In 1988 1000 children per day were paralyzed from polio globally.
Again a lie. This is utter nonsense. The initial polio vaccine itself was responsible for Acute Paralysis. So much so it was banned outright.
POlio is not a virus - its the debilitating condition caused by DDT and Lead Arsenic pesticides and a graphical plot of its cases tracks the use and ban of these two pesticides
https://i.stack.imgur.com/jC0nl.gif
1) M. Biskind, "DDT poisoning and the elusive Virus X". American Journal of Digestive Diseases vol 16 1949
2) J. Gabliks and L. Friedman. "Effects of insectisides on mammalian cells and virus infections", Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences vol 160. 1969
3) F. Burgess and G.R Cameron. "The Toxicity of D.D.T", British Medical Journal vol 1 june 23 1945
Am going to address your points in no particular order - but in snippets
>Two things can be true at once,
Thats NONSENSE.
If 95% of mortality rates had dropped before the advent of vaccines there is nothing else
>This graph looks like it’s limited to deaths and only those in Australia.
It was about record keeping and ACCESS in developed Western Nations. YOu would see similar trends in other Western nations with health ministries and departments who tracked those records from the 1800s
>Not only can the effectiveness of vaccines be seen in history but they can be empirically demonstrated in the lab. The lab work and clinical proof is extensive and must be taken into account.
You are just making up things as you go along at this point.
NO VACCINE in use right now has been tested against an inert saline solution placebo. They are all tested against previous versions of the vaccine under test or against a formulae that includes the active substances in the vaccine under test
If vaccines were truly safe and effective - they would not remain indemnified by the National Childhood Vaccine Act of 1986.
How many vaccine manufacturers are clamouring and lobbying congress to reverse/nullify the liability protection they currently enjoy?
>NO VACCINE in use right now has been tested against an inert saline solution placebo.
You have no idea how vaccines are tested or the ethics of saline placebo trials. Original vaccine formulations were tested against saline placebo. Every re-forumulation has proven SAFER than the last, using less and less antigens to provide better protection against severe disease. All you're doing is regurgitating an idiotic talking point of your beloved lawyer RFK Jr.
>If vaccines were truly safe and effective - they would not remain indemnified by the National Childhood Vaccine Act of 1986.
Other countries do not have such protections and use the same vaccine schedule as us. Curious why that isn't addressed by you and your ilk. Also, these protections include the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) which does not exist in those countries either. In the USA, it's very easy to get compensated for table injuries temporally associated with vaccination. In other countries, you'd need to go to court and prove the vaccine caused the injury. There is a reason VICP exists, and it was fought for by opponents to childhood vaccine mandates. Lawyers like RFK jr and his lawyer Aaron Siri want the ability to sue vaccine manufacturers over injuries to make money. It's an inherent conflict of interest.
>All you're doing is regurgitating an idiotic talking point of your beloved lawyer RFK Jr.
RFKjr is the boogey man that keeps you up at night. He is not even the main reason I got on this bandwagon. I have books on this subject most written by medical doctors - long before I heard of RFKjr. Hes is not alone on this subject
Heres an example
https://rumble.com/v65mp7g-dr-kory-on-the-myth-of-vaccine-safety-and-efficasy.html
Heres another
https://rumble.com/v4vrie8-financial-incentives-given-doctors-to-poison-our-kids-with-vaccines.html
And another
https://rumble.com/v1yxzlq-dr-ryan-cole-explains-why-we-arent-seeing-as-many-adverse-reactions.html
One more for good measure
https://rumble.com/v1pb9bf-in-their-own-words-doctors-are-not-experts-on-vaccines.html
>Other countries do not have such protections and use the same vaccine schedule as us.
Other countries am familiar with do not have mandates for vaccination and childhood school attendance. In either case its irrelevant what other countries do. Am an American am only concerned with what we do.
Your argument boils down to "hey were are doing things wrong but other countries are following us - so that must be right".
>In the USA, it's very easy to get compensated for table injuries temporally associated with vaccination.
Thats an easily provable lie AND YOU KNOW IT
"You can’t sue Pfizer or Moderna if you have severe Covid vaccine side effects. The government likely won’t compensate you for damages either"
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-compensation-lawsuit.html
You are out to lunch without a clue about what you are talking about. VAERS/VICP skirts our legal system - with less than 1% reports and a severity and time clause that largely makes it impossible to be compensated appropriately. Am not even discussing the cap on compensation - all from revenue we pay for - no loss to the manufacturer no incentive to course correct
On childhood vacccines; I am going to suggest two books on my bookshelf - i am almost certain you have never read
* **"The vaccine Court: The Dark Truth of Americas Vaccine Injury Compensation Program"** by Wayne Rhodes
* **"Vaccine Injuries; Documented Adverse Reactions to Vaccines"** by Louis Conte and Tony Lyons
>Lawyers like RFK jr and his lawyer Aaron Siri want the ability to sue vaccine manufacturers over injuries to make money. It's an inherent conflict of interest.
Now we circle back.
Other countries allow you to sue vaccine manufacturers directly no?
Here is what you said:
>n other countries, you'd need to go to court and prove the vaccine caused the injury
GOOD!!! THATS HOW A JUSTICE SYSTEM SHOULD WORK. You should have to prove the vaccine caused the injury. I am all for that.
Now the question is - WHY ARE YOU AGAINST THAT ?
All you have are Rumble videos!?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
So why do we have a chronic health disease crisis in our country while spending the most per capita on healthcare? Why hasn’t this been addressed? Pharmaceutical drugs, and interventions, obviously haven’t improved our health situation.
There appears to be a lot of chronic because so many acute infectious diseases are now controlled by vaccines. Very different story if you look at the 19th century (some diseases were also eliminated with clean water and food standards but by no means all). Airborne diseases like smallpox and measles required vaccines.