I just looked at the CDC website. They recommend that children as young as six months get vaccinated for Covid because, among other reasons, children can spread it to other family members. Ok, in what reality does Covid vaccination prevent infection? So far as I know, it absolutely does not. Sorry, but the CDC has become a political agency, not a scientific one. While I'm not against vaccination - I'm over 65 and I'm vaccinated - I no longer trust the CDC to provide accurate information to the public.
But do vaccines prevent infection? That would imply that they are sterilising. What all vaccines aim to do is prevent or reduce serious illness, hospitalisation, ITU admission and death. If you aren’t vaccinated and depend on the wrongly named natural immunity the same applies, it doesn’t prevent infection.
You are correct. Vaccines , not just Covid vaccines ,but other vaccines do not prevent infection but they prevent disease. Offit and other reputable scientists in virology and immunology have been saying this for years.
Yes indeed, vaccines prevent disease. Look at tetanus vaccine for example…it prevents ZERO infections.
However, Covid vaccines do prevent infection. They were most successful at this with earlier variants, around 60% or so, falling now to around 25% with Omicron. That is not great, but on a population basis is still enough to impact to a minor degree, and on an individual basis it will help vulnerable individuals avert infection.
Yeah the people who have no actual of grasp of how epidemiology works are stuck on a binary - if a vaccine doesn't prevent 100% of infections it must be preventing 0% of infections.
Those studies you cited are worthless population based studies. If the COVID vaccine stops transmission and infection, why has Fauci got his third round of Covid after six boosters? Most people I know who are getting COVID have been overly vaccinated like Fauci. We are not stupid people as you state over and over again. We can just look around us and know most things you say are not true. Pfizer admitted they never tested transmission or prevention of infection. You cite so many studies in your vast amount of evidence that you show we are all falling for the lies. Maybe you are falling from some lies. Usually those that accuse others of lying are lying too. Funny how that works!
The government never used the word “ reduce” transmission. They used the word stop transmission. There are so many videos out about how the government and main stream media said it over and over again. Biden, Fauci, Wolensky. All the main stream media, if you get your COvID vaccine that is the end of the road..you will not get COVID or you will not transmit COVID. What a joke. So you who ever you are Mike S. Billy Joe, Albus..you should start a show..like the VIEW..all you who think you are righteous and know the truth from lies. You are in your certain studies of science and medicine and know it all and can look at the data and know what are lies and what is truth. I can’t imagine what it would be like to know what is truth and what is not. What does it feel like? Must feel pretty powerful, like pumping your chest. I don’t know. All those anti-vaxers, all those people who don’t believe what you believe. There are a lot of us. But you know what, you can keep believing what you believe and I can keep believing what I believe..and so far your smart science has not convinced me to believe anything of what you or your cronies believe.
"If the COVID vaccine stops transmission and infection...."
Here are some facts:
- No vaccine stops infection.
- ALL vaccines reduce symptomatic infection (disease) or severely symptomatic infection (severe disease).
- ALL vaccines reduce the risk of transmission.
"why has Fauci got his third round of Covid after six boosters?"
Here are two reasons:
- because the word "reduce" does not mean "reduce by 100%".
- because the risk is much higher in the elderly and Dr. Fauci is now in his 80s.
Here is another reason:
- he has not had 6 boosters.
"Most people I know..."
Anecdotes can generate hypotheses that can be tested in clinical trials, but they are NOT evidence in themselves. In fact, they are WORTHLESS as evidence, which was why science was invented in the first place.
"We are not stupid people..."
Unfortunately, some people ARE stupid. But far more people are not stupid but simply lack training in critical thinking and are, therefore, more easily fooled by grifters, cranks, and charlatans. And most of the population is uneducated or lack expertise in the relevant science: virology, immunology, microbiology, molecular biology, epidemiology, infectious disease, statistics, and public health.
"We can just look around us and know most things you say are not true".
That is not true.
Firstly, anecdotes are not evidence of anything.
Secondly, commonsense is very often misleading. It is part of the reason we actually do science. Commonsense only really works in uncomplicated, simple straightforward situations. Most situations are far too complex to be amenable to common sense explanations (try, for example, explaining relativity or quantum physics using commonsense).
"Pfizer admitted they never tested transmission".
They did not "ADMIT" that they did not test for transmission. They simply stated it as a fact. And they stated it way back in 2020 before their clinical trials even began. They stated publicly that they would not be testing for transmission until after the vaccine was rolled out (after a successful phase III clinical trial) because that would require a far longer clinical trial and people were already dying of COVID-19.
In fact, at the time the first vaccines were rolled out, 4000 Americans were dying of COVID-19 every single day. It made sense to test only for symptomatic infection (disease) and severely symptomatic infection (severe disease).
Besides, NO vaccines are tested for transmission in the phase III clinical trials.
But, as with other vaccines, transmission was tested for subsequently in post marketing surveillance (also called phase IV testing of the vaccine)
"we are all falling for the lies"
Not all of us. Some of us have a background in science and medicine, and training in critical thinking and media studies and, as a result, are not so easily fooled as others with no such background.
"Maybe you are falling from some lies".
That is possible. But it would be to a far lesser degree - and not the BIG lies that grifters, charlatans and cranks feel confident fooling most of their science illiterate audience about. Because of our training in science, medicine, and critical thinking, we are not so easily fooled. You could say that our education has immunised us against vaccination lies but that the immunity is not 100% (but close).
So please point out the basic math understanding % to show I am wrong. And also the non population the non population based studies. The study you posted was a population based study..it doesn’t really matter Albus what you post. You believe what you believe and anyone who doesn’t believe what you believe is stupid and falling for the lies.
Public health and doctors over the past 40 years have resided over the greatest increase in chronic disease rates society has ever seen, and takes no responsibility, that’s poor leadership. What’s the depression rate among doctors, isn’t it one of the higher professions? Wonder if the weight of carrying the chronic disease disaster is driving that? Ah, all that chronic disease it’s paying for the summer cabin, better not look into it.
This is called the "scattergun approach" or "fire hosing".
Make about a dozen proclamations, none of which are backed up by any evidence whatsoever because all are false, in order to derail the actual topic of the discussion.
Here's the definition:
"Fire hosing is a propaganda tactic that involves pushing out large amounts of false and misleading information at once. The term was first applied to Russian propaganda strategies intended to silence dissent and mislead the public."
And your profession has done almost nothing to use your influence to push back against environmental factors like processed foods contributing to society getting sicker - heart and stroke accepts funding from soft drinks, etc. and instead of solving issues at the root cause prescribe drugs to mask symptoms, way better to have a customer for life on statins that fix anything.
And of course vaccines, for them not to be on the table along with all the other factors driving health problems, that’s ridiculous, especially since it is established now with Stanley and Edwards having to acknowledge under oath that all the studies claimed to rule out all these issues simply have never been completed. People are catching on.
Over the last 40 years doctors have presided (note I use the correct verb) over an increase in life expectancy from around 70 years to 78 years.
Since people are living for 8 years longer, it is natural that some "chronic" diseases will be more manifest in those in their late 70s than when they were much younger, such as cardiovascular disease, cancers, etc.
I expect that if average life expectancy reaches to be in the 90s, you would be the one whining that medical science and public health have caused an increase in senile dementia.
Thanks for the English lesson. You’re having a hard time accepting that less people respect your profession. Especially the ones that have proven to be pushers for pharma. Thankfully there are doctors (like attached) that recognize the profession for what it has become. I guess it’s not easy getting pushback after such a long run of unquestioned authority, welcome to the real world.
Oh my your rationalization is just mind boggling. The age of death has increased as guess what, people don’t die from infection and bad water. There are more people who die from diseases that they have caused, diabetes, heart disease, liver disease, COPD. Ok so you are telling us people live longer because they have chronic diseases that are treated by pharmaceuticals, and their quality of life is shit!.
I posted the link because you are thick headed. Maybe just maybe they decrease transmission, but they do not stop it. That my dear Albus is just a fact. Even the crazies like you that. And if you are so smart and knowledgeable, why do you go by an alias? I could post a hundred studies that are against your narrative, but you believe what you believe and that is the greatest thing about what is supposed to be free speech in this country. I say hail to you, stand in line for your next injection of the spike protein and all the other vaccines that save lives, but don’t criticize me for not believing what you believe, calling me stupid. I thinks it takes a stupid person to know a stupid person. Keep believing Albus in your God of vaccines. That’s ok. And you know what else is interesting, every time I post something from those you don’t believe in, you discount it like you are the governor of truth and we all believe in lies. It must feel so grand to pump your chest and know that you know the truth from lies. This is the last post I will engage with you! Blessing to your vast knowledge! Keep spreading it.
The virus keeps mutating. Some viruses do not mutate often, so the childhood vaccination you received gives you pretty durable lifelong protection. But SARS-CoV-2 mutates very frequently... but we didn't know this was going to be the case when this virus first emerged (it was a novel (new) virus-- we were learning on the fly). But now that this virus has been around for 4+ years, we know so much more about it.
When the covid vaccines first came out, we hoped they would be a "one and done" and the virus would be behind us. But unfortunately the virus mutates rapidly (like flu), so now we have to get boosters that are matched to the latest-circulating variants (like annual flu shots). But honestly, we can't vaccinate our way out of this pandemic-- it's like playing whack-a-mole. So we need to focus on not getting infected in the first place: by cleaning the indoor air. HEPA filters and Germicidal UV-C work great but are expensive because everyone would have to retrofit their HVAC systems and add HEPA filters and UV-C units to schools, businesses, homes, apartments, etc. And if we can't clean the indoor air, then we have to slap on a personal air filter (aka a mask)... but that apparently is unreasonable for people.
"They recommend that children ... get vaccinated for Covid because, among other reasons, children can spread it to other family members. Ok, in what reality does Covid vaccination prevent infection?"
You seem confused about the difference between INFECTION and TRANSMISSION.
1) Vaccines do NOT prevent infection*.
2) Vaccines DO reduce transmission.
*The only circumstances in which vaccines prevent (or reduce the risk of) infection is if the vaccinated person has been vaccinated only recently so that the circulating antibody levels are still very high; and then only if the infecting dose is very low. In those circumstances, the very high levels of circulating antibodies can neutralise the very low viral dose before any virus has had the opportunity to enters a cell.
The COVID-19 vaccines reduced transmission by up to 80% initially and, even now, after many variants, it still reduces transmission by up to 30%.
"the CDC has become a political agency, not a scientific one"
That is incorrect. The CDC follows the advice of medical scientists with expertise in virology, immunology, microbiology, statistics, epidemiology, molecular biology, and public health. The CDC has been portrayed as a political agency by those whose political ideas are invalidated by what the science says.
"I no longer trust the CDC to provide accurate information to the public."
You have been duped by politically motivated individuals who place their "personal freedom" above the health and lives of the public - which includes their own families, friends, and workmates.
I'm not confused in the slightest about the difference between infection and transmission. What you're implying ... wait, you're not implying it, you actually said it ..is that someone who has received a polio vaccine can get (become infected with) polio but not give it to someone else (transmit it). What?
You're also saying this: that I get my baby vaccinated for Covid. My otherwise healthy baby becomes infected with Covid, because vaccines don't prevent infection. Granny, who lives with us and is also vaccinated, then has a SEVENTY PERCENT CHANCE of having the virus transmitted to her. I guess that's slightly better than nothing, but I'm not sure it justifies the very real risks to my baby of vaccination.
The CDC is indeed advised by the group of experts you mention. However, the CDC is under no obligation to actually follow that advice, or anyone's advice. "What the science says", in the case of a NOVEL (new) virus, isn't graven in stone and you're politically duped if you think it is. There are many reputable scientists who disagreed vehemently with the necessity of lockdowns and other draconian measures to fight Covid, and in hindsight, the very scientists who advocated for those measures mostly agree now that they were not necessary, especially the school closings, and did much more harm than good.
I have been duped by no one. You're making an assumption about my politics that is incorrect. In reality, I simply think for myself and draw conclusions based on ALL of the evidence available to me, not just the politically correct evidence that you are so cheerfully espousing.
" wait, you're not implying it, you actually said it ..is that someone who has received a polio vaccine can get (become infected with) polio but not give it to someone else (transmit it). What?'
Quote me, you lying hound.
Saying that infection and transmission are different, and that you clearly confused the two, is not the same as saying there is no connection between the two.
"ou're also saying this: that I get my baby vaccinated ... blah, blah, blah"
You seem to have missed the fact that a vaccinated person has a reduced risk of severe disease, hospitalisation, ICU admission, intubation, and death; and, if they survive, long covid, permanent organ damage, and reduced life expectancy.
Are you in denial or just a pig-ignorant antivaxxer?
"There are many reputable scientists who disagreed vehemently with the necessity of lockdowns "
Reputable scientists?
Don't make me laugh. There are a gaggle of contrarian fringe scientists, pseudoscientists, non-scientists, mavericks, quacks, cranks, and charlatans grifting for fame and fortune on social media.
Reputable scientists, my arse!
"school closings ... did much more harm than good"
Firstly, it was not possible to know either way, but it was certainly reasonable to think they would make a difference. But there was always a question about school closures., and there still is. Even now there is no agreement on whether they helped overall. But there are situations where infections were rampant and schools closed anyway because there were not enough teachers to keep them open.
But this is hardly as case of failure on the part of public health experts. More a learning curve.
"I simply think for myself and draw conclusions based on ALL of the evidence available to me,"
I truly hope you don't believe your own bullshit.
Are you actually trying to tell me that the necessarily very limited research done by a fool with no background in medical science could lead you to a conclusion that rivals that of the world's recognised experts in the relevant fields of science who do this as their day job?
If you actually believe that you are a self-deluded fool.
"the politically correct evidence that you are so cheerfully espousing."
You wish.
Nothing to do with politics or political correctness.
Why I have informed you about are the conclusions of the recognised experts in the relevant fields of science. You haven't even got the background to know who they are, or how to distinguish them from the fringe dwellers, quacks, and cranks grifting for fame and fortune on social media at the expense of YOUR health.
You called me an anti-vaxxer. That's not political? And you apparently missed the fact that I AM VACCINATED, because I am in a group that is likely to have a more severe case of Covid, and I believe (because of actual EVIDENCE) that the Covid vaccine does reduce the risk of severe infection. A healthy 30 year old IS NOT AT RISK OF SEVERE INFECTION FROM COVID, and vaccinating them reduces their risk of transmission only minimally. Forcing them to vaccinate flies in the face of "follow the science". And if you believe YOU aren't espousing a politically motivated point of view, well, then, I don't know what to tell you. Enjoy your I'm right, and people who don't agree with me are stupid life.
"You called me an anti-vaxxer. That's not political?"
Nope.
It's an accurate description of who you are.
"And you apparently missed the fact that I AM VACCINATED"
RFK junior is also vaccinated, but he is the most notorious antivaxxer in the world.
And he ALSO denies he is an antivaxxer.
"A healthy 30 year old IS NOT AT RISK OF SEVERE INFECTION FROM COVID,"
STOP LYING.
Because that is what makes you an antivaxxer - LYING ABOUT VACCINES!
A healthy 30-year-old IS at risk of severely symptomatic infection.
A healthy child or adolescent is ALSO at risk of severely symptomatic infection.
STOP LYING.
"vaccinating them reduces their risk of transmission only minimally"
So, you think reducing transmission by up to 30% (and originally by up to 80%) is "minimally"?
You do understand, don't you, the implications of the fact that onward infection from one individual is exponential? Right?
Antivaxxer.
"Forcing them to vaccinate"
And that's the other reason why you are an antivaxxer.
You use common lying antivax tropes such as: "FORCED to get vaccinated!"
Nobody was held down and forcibly vaccinated.
Everyone had a choice.
But, like all choices, this choice came with consequences.
"Forcing them to vaccinate flies in the face of "follow the science"."
Setting aside the ANTIVAX LIE for the moment, how does that even make sense?
"And if you believe YOU aren't espousing a politically motivated point of view"
I don't believe it, I know it.
I follow the science and only the science.
If you believe I am politically motivated, quote me and explain exactly how this means I am motivated by politics because, at the moment, you are just mouthing words.
"Enjoy your I'm right, and people who don't agree with me are stupid life."
It is not about ME being right.
I am telling you what the EXPERTS are saying.
And the RECOGNISED EXPERTS are far, FAR more likely to be right than random arseholes with no relevant qualifications grifting for fame and fortune on social media at the expense of YOUR health.
The science says that vaccination reduces the risk of infection by around 25% for Omicron variant.
If your mother gets covid despite vaccination, her risk of death or serious illness (which is an appreciable risk) is halved.
If your infant gets covid despite vaccination, the risk of serious disease or death is likewise halved even though it is much lower (and it is still not zero).
I don’t know about you, but for me those risks still remain significant enough for me to do what I can to protect my parent/child by recommending vaccination.
That grifting misinformer is, at the very least, antivax-adjacent if not actually antivax.
He has repeatedly made predictions about the pandemic that did not pan out.
Presently, he is busily and embarrassingly trying to rewrite history by denying what he said during the pandemic.
For anyone interested, Dr. Jonathan Howard had exposed this fraud (and others) in his book "They wanted them infected" as well as in numerous blogposts at Science Based Medicine, where he quotes these frauds directly in their own incriminating words.
Oh you mean manipulated data like when people don’t hit vaccinated stats until a time period after their shots? Not vaccinated until 14 days after the second shot, exclude any events that occur prior to that period. You guys are such a fraud, but people are catching on.
The studies you cited are a population based study. I’m sure you know what that means with your vast knowledge. Pfizer has admitted they never tested transmission or infection. The global study that was used to get Emergency Use Authorization was based on mild to moderate symptoms in healthy adults. If you really believe what you say that the COVID vaccine prevents infection and transmission, then you are a loner in that belief. So keep on believing that ..sorry you look really silly. Very few people believe that because it is obvious.
I read the studies, what a joke. It is a well established fact and obvious to most that the COVID vaccine does not stop transmission or infection. But hey you just keep believing otherwise and get your injections.
"Pfizer has admitted they never tested transmission"
You have been fooled by grifters, charlatans, and cranks. Pfizer simply stated it as a fact even before the commencement of the clinical trials. Transmission is never tested in phase I, II, and III clinical trials. It is tested after the vaccines are rolled out in phase IV post-marketing surveillance.
"Pfizer ... never tested ... infection"
That's because NO vaccine prevents infection. It is infection that actually stimulates the immune system into responding and that is true even when the immune system has been primed by vaccination.
Data from groups sponsored by pharmaceutical giants and vaccine manufacturers are worthless. (Especially companys who have faced billion dollar settlements for fraud)
Vaccination also reduces severity and in turn reduces likelihood of developing long covid.
"studies have shown that some groups of people seem to have a higher likelihood of developing the condition- it is more likely if you are female, have a pre-existing health condition and live in conditions of higher deprivation. Although the condition can develop after mild infection, its more frequently associated with more severe infection."
As far as I am aware they are not saying that. Certainly nobody in Canada is. Vaccines saved thousands of lives and killed over 100,000 Americans, the majority unvaccinated. Again the Covid-19 vaccine is similar to the flu vaccine. It does not prevent the flu it only stops you from getting deathly ill and ending up in ICU where they hardly have any beds, let alone nurses to handle the problem. So I guess you can trust mothers and the children, yeah that makes sense. The last time I checked my parents kept us alive from the day we were born with getting our school vaccines and so on. No polio like a friend of my got, now dead, but then he missed the polio vaccine through no fault of his own. I've made it to 75 so I can't really complain. By the way, who needs a brain surgeon, let's just take that junkie off the street and have him operate, he doesn't have to be qualified. If he can recognize a scapel, oh a knife, that should work just fine, let me at him. I'll have him out in no time. I'm glad you trust the government, guys like Donald Trump to look after use, but that will be after they are raking in the billions of dollars they plan to make off the American people once he is re-elected.
The first one is “The Real Anthony Fauci “ to find everything you want to know about Covid - has over 2000 references. On Vaccines- “Turtles All The Way Down”
And make sure you receive the proper informed consent before you put anything into your body.
As a retired public health nurse, that worked for 32 years in communicable disease program,I can tell you vaccines work. In 1979 when I started many of the vaccines given today did not exist. The general public does not hear the pain in the parents voice when a child as died from a vaccine preventable disease. The general public, parents included,, need to heed the advice of the experts in the field. As new vaccines became available the incidence of that disease in the general population dropped. I will use the pneumococcal vaccine(prevnar) for children as an example. I can remember that we had 25 cases of invasive pneumococcal disease (found in blood) and reportable by law in ICUs in hospital the year before the Prevnar vaccine was given routinely to children. The next year that dropped to 5. I had children in my county die of HIB and chickenpox, two older adults experience the horror of tetanus, although the did survive, several children experience pertussis and according to the parents breathing issues for many years. Immunizations and disease prevention are very personal to me due to the years of experience that the general public and most parents are lucky enough to not have. I also gave thousands of free vaccines through the vaccines for children program to the under and uninsured population and can tell you that the government listens to reactions and changes the vaccine . For one example, the old DTP caused more fever and soreness for children and was changed to DTaP, The oral polio vaccine was changed to the injectable polio vaccine due to the possibility of vaccine related polio due to immunisupression. I followed the advice of the CDC and will continue to follow it with my own vaccines as I age.
As a DVM for 45 years, I vaccinated untold numbers of animals and have clearly seen huge benefits of most animal vaccines. However, upper respiratory viral diseases in every species are notoriously difficult to get solid immunity. This is in part due to the fact that you need both secretory and circulating antibodies to get full protection and since most vaccines are either administered by injection or oral / nasal route they do not provide that dual immunity.
I suspect that those same factors are what render Covid vaccines less effective than many other vaccines in both man and animals. Beyond that, it seems that the Covid virus is unique enough that it has simply upended much our understanding of viruses.
I don't blame the CDC and medical community for struggling to deal with this unique virus but I do fault them for being less than honest about their understanding and fear mongering.
There are several nasal vaccines currently in clinical trials. They provide upper respiratory tract mucosal immunity. Unfortunately election year politics + misinformation + deliberate disinformation + opportunistic grifters have created a climate where BARDA isn't doing anything to accelerate their rollout.
"I don't blame the CDC and medical community for struggling to deal with this unique virus but I do fault them for being less than honest about their understanding and fear mongering."
What dishonesty?
What fear mongering?
There were some understandable mistakes, mostly in messaging, but there was no fear-mongering. What we had mostly was misrepresentation what was actually said, and exaggeration of errors in communication, by vested political interests and antivaxxers with political motivations.
Yet you said nothing about them.
You chose only to attack the very people who helped save up to 15-20 million lives during the pandemic.
I could go on but it is self evident that often they simply didn't know what they said they knew and at other times either lied or times spread half truths (didn't speak honestly about the effectiveness of the vaccine.
Sadly, and to our long term detriment, such actions and similar other ones served to undermine the credibility of our leading health authorities.
Stop lying. The mortality rate of a SARS-CoV-2 infection was calculated to be between 0.5% and 1.0% as early as March 2020. The actual mortality rate turned out to be 0.68%.
Your link to a comment in the Lancet does not change that fact.
"We were told that vaccine would stop transmission "
Stop lying. We were told that, because the clinical trials showed that vaccination reduced symptomatic infection (disease), it would LIKELY also REDUCE transmission. The capitalised words expose your two lies.
Subsequent to the vaccination roll out, studies confirmed that the vaccinations did indeed reduce transmission.
"now a moot point with Covid infection tens of millions of vaccinated people"
Don't look now, but you just confused TRANSMISSION with INFECTION.
NO vaccine stops or reduces infection because it is infection that stimulates the vaccine-primed immune response.
And ALL vaccines REDUCE - but do not STOP - transmission.
Learn some science.
"We were told that the virus was not airborne"
Now you are confusing AIRBORNE with AEROSOLISED.
ALL respiratory viruses are airborne. You were never told any different. But they were too slow to recognise that the viral particles also became aerosolised and therefore spread beyond 2 meters and that this method of spread was as significant as it turned out to be.
"6 foot distance was relatively safe"
It was, especially if you also wore a mask.
"I could go on"
Son, you have yet to post a score here!
"simply didn't know what they said they knew ... lied ... spread half truths ... didn't speak honestly about the effectiveness of the vaccine"
Thanks for confirming that you are both arrogantly ignorant and a disgusting liar.
Scientists and health care workers worked around the clock for years on end to save your sorry arse by respectively coming up with vaccines and medications and distributing them.
And STILL not a word from you about the antivaxxers who clacked away at their keyboards in the comfort of their own homes grifting for fame and fportune while doing their best to undo the tireless efforts of the scientists and HCWs.
They provided the lying propaganda that killed 250,000 unvaccinated Americans in 2021 by convincing them to delay or reject vaccinations.
Not a word from you.
Just a disgusting attack on those who saved millions of lives.
“Learn some science”? I have a BS, MS, and medical degree. I have attended many CE course on Immunology and worked in the field 45 years. What are your credentials BJ; and where are your citations for your accusations? I could be wrong, but I suspect you have very little of either.
"The mortality was greatly overrated" “Stop lying. The mortality rate of a SARS-CoV-2 infection was calculated to be between 0.5% and 1.0% as early as March 2020. The actual mortality rate turned out to be 0.68%.” Your Citation?
Let’s talk numbers rather than percentages. The Lancet article I cited: “ One critical report, published on March 16, 2020, received international attention when it predicted 2,200 000 deaths in the USA” Actual number of deaths? 350K,( https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/podcasts/2022/20220107/20220107.htm) - assuming all those deaths were primary due to C-19 and not people who would have died in the next 30 days without a C-19 infection. Mortality predictions were 6.3X higher than actual deaths (thank God!). I think it fair to say that 6.3X too high as “highly over rated”. I suspect most readers would agree.
More Covid deaths in 2021 despite mass vaccinations been available for 11 months & improved understanding & Tx methods for C-19. Looks like a pretty low benefit of the massive vaccinations? I’d love to see a NNT calc on that!
“They provided the lying propaganda that killed 250,000 unvaccinated Americans in 2021 by convincing them to delay or reject vaccinations.” The citation in Offit’s post was 232K – looks like you’re playing a little loose with the numbers BJ! Furthermore, the citation states: dCOVID-19-associated death outcome was defined as a death that occurred within 30 days of a laboratory-confirmed positive test and/or was caused by COVID-19. We have no idea how many of those folks also had a severe car accident, severe CVD, or other terminal disease and would have died within 30 days without Covid, That is pretty interesting figure given that the CDC says the total number deaths due to Covid in 2021 was 460K. So over half of those deaths were do to antivaxxers? Seems pretty improbable; perhaps even CDC propaganda.
I am not an antivaxxer. I got the 1st 2 C-19 vaccines & 1 booster. After having 2 mild bouts with C-19 I now rely on my natural immunity and periodic “street boosters”. My wife had a severe reaction to her 2nd C-19 vaccine that resulted in pain and physical limitations for over 2 years. Interestingly, she has not gotten more C-19 vaccinations and has yet to have Covid! I have personally administered or supervised tens of thousands vaccinations and seen major diseases practically eliminated within a couple of years of the introduction of effective vaccines. I agree that antivaxxer did spread disinformation which probably caused unnecessary deaths.
I stand by my statement that the many leading US health officials often simply didn't know what they said they knew and at other times either lied or times spread half truths (didn't speak honestly about the effectiveness of the vaccine). I agree that many worked their tails off and I’m thankful for them. But when Covid became political, truth suffered. It was a hard time, confusing as Hari Krisna.
BOTTOM LINE: The trust of our leading medical officials would be a lot higher in 2024 if they had shown more humility and been more forthright about the what they knew - & didn’t know - about Covid. In the process they made draconian mandates that caused severe financial loss and closure to many small business, job losses and financial stress to tens of millions of employees, learning loss to tens of millions of students, significantly increased the national debt, and suppressed honest discussion. . As a result, Offit (who I highly respected before Covid) and the CDC are on the defensive. It’s a crying shame and will take years if not decades to regain trust.
With that, BJ (or should I say BS?), I bid you farewell as it appears from your posts that you thrive on argument and insult with no apparent credentials and little credibility. Clack on, I’m done with you.
" I have a BS, MS, and medical degree. I have attended many CE course on Immunology and worked in the field 45 years"
I am not surprised to see you trying to prop it up your failing argument by listing your credentials. But I am happy to see that you are at least not a scientist. And having a medical degree does not make you a scientist.
"What are your credentials"
Unlike you, I have more than a passing interest in critical thinking, and I know that if you need to list your credentials that it is tantamount to admitting defeat of your argument. Let your argument stand or fall on its merits, son.
"One critical report, published on March 16, 2020, received international attention when it predicted 2,200 000 deaths in the USA”"
Unlike your argument, that prediction has stood the test of time. The prediction was that, if nothing was done, the US would end up with 2.2 million deaths. At present the toll stands at 1.2 million. Without mitigation measures before the vaccination roll out and without an actual vaccine, that figure of 1.2 million would easily have ballooned out to 2.2 million.
Here's the calculation: The US population (330 million) x 0.68% = 2.25 million.
"assuming all those deaths were primary due to C-19 and not people who would have died in the next 30 days without a C-19 infection"
You had to go there didn't you. A common denialist trope. Used by antivaxxers. They are COVID-19 deaths based on diagnoses on the medical certificate completed by a doctor who treated the patient. They know what condition they were treating their patient for and they know what their patient died of.
"Actual number of deaths? 350K"
That is a blatant lie. The number of COVID-19 deaths stands ar approximately 1.2 million.
"Mortality predictions were 6.3X higher than actual deaths"
Learn some maths. The predictions were less than 2X higher, but they assumed no mitigation measures and no vaccinations.
"More Covid deaths in 2021 despite mass vaccinations been available for 11 months & improved understanding & Tx methods for C-19."
Good Heavens! Another science illiterate nong who does not understand the concept of confounding variables! During 2021, concurrent with the population being vaccinated, the mitigation measures were being rolled back resulting in infection spreading through the population. The US achieved a vaccination rate of only 70% so plenty of targets for the virus.
And guess why you never linked to any studies that directly compared the VACCINATED with the UNVACCINATED? Because it would show very clearly that you are a disgusting LIAR. Early in the pandemic with low levels of population immunity and a large vulnerable population, deaths among the vaccinated was up to 40 times less than for the vaccinated. Even now the risk is 6 times less. And cumulative all-cause mortality in the vaccinated after an infection leveled off after 6 months. In the unvaccinated who got infected it is STILL rising after 3 years.
THAT is how effective vaccinations are.
"We have no idea how many of those folks also had a severe car accident,"
Hello antivaxxer.
THAT is a typical lying antivax narrative.
You, like a most other antivaxxers either still don't know the complete evisceration of that lie or are still lying about it regardless.
People who died of a car accident within 30 days of an infection were only TEMPORARILY listed as dying of the infection. This was for the purposes of detecting increases in population infections and deaths so that appropriate mitigation measures could be implemented as soon as possible in order to limit those deaths.
If they had waited for the medical certificates, that would have caused a 3-month delay in instituting those mitigation measures.
However, the FINAL tally was based on those death certificates written by a doctor who treated the patient.
"I am not an antivaxxer.'
Three things:
1) An antivaxxer is someone who LIES about vaccines
1) You ARE an antivaxxer.
2) Almost ALL antivaxxers DENY they are antivaxxers.
And that includes the most notorious antivaxxer of them all, RFK junior.
"I now rely on my natural immunity and periodic “street boosters”."
And you just denied that you are an antivaxxer!
That's pretty funny.
"My wife...blah, blah, blah"
Personal anecdotes are not evidence.
At most they can generate hypotheses to be scientifically tested.
That has been done and risk of complications including death from infections FAR outweigh the risk of adverse effects form vaccinations.
- mortality rate of the infection: 6,800 per million
- mortality rate of the VV vaccination: 1 per million
- mortality rate of the mRNA vaccination: FAR LESS THAN 1 per million.
And the vaccinations prevented 95% of deaths from the first infection.
"I agree that antivaxxer did spread disinformation which probably caused unnecessary deaths.'
Don't look now, antivaxxer, but you just made a very serious accusation against yourself. Even after 4 years, you are STILL spreading antivax misinformation.
"I stand by my statement that the many leading US health officials often simply didn't know what they said they knew and at other times either lied or times spread half truths (didn't speak honestly about the effectiveness of the vaccine)."
As if someone who STILL does not understand that he is spreading antivax misinformation would have a goddamn clue. And as if anyone should pay any attention whatsoever to what someone like you has to say against those who helped save millions of lives!
"Hari Krisna"
Hare Krishna?
Devolving almost into incoherence now.
"BOTTOM LINE: ...blah, blah, blah"
Shameful.
MANDATES SAVED LIVES.
Hint: you cannot compare mandates during a pandemic with no mandates when there was no pandemic. THAT is what generated that lie about mandates that you, in your world of science illiteracy, sucked up and swallowed whole.
And STILL no blame where it fairly and squarely belongs: the lying antivax loons and their "USEFUL FOOLS" like YOU (some say "USEFUL TOOLS" so take your pick).
If you really are a medical practitioner, you should hold your head in shame. And you should hope that on the occasions that you spread antivax lies during the pandemic, you didn't assist the virus reach its pandemic total of 15-35 million deaths.
Sadly, people seek to undermine the credibility of scientists by exaggerating their few errors of assumption and downplaying their many statements of fact.
…Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, as they say (well, Voltaire, specifically)
I really enjoy this fake soul searching after the incalculable damage you people did mocking, ridiculing, and wishing death upon anyone that wouldn't consume these shoddily made medical products.
I have taken untold numbers of vaccines due to my work. I wanted to wait on ONE vaccine for a few years before I took it the damage done to me is irreparable. I was ruined behind what was done to me. my credibility was destroyed. these things are STILL happening to anyone who wouldn't go along with what peiople like paul wanted in perpetuity.
well, I sitlll won't go along and now I won't ever go along with it. it wasn't just the cdc. it was the ama, nih, abim, pediatric organizations, the fda, and many many other organizations. you cannot worm your way out of this one with this trash.
attacking me isn’t going to change any of what paul has done. THAT is why we are here. but I’m not just here. this is all I do now.
there is nothing else. paul and public health named the combat, people like stephen morrison at csis said they were at war with the public and they think they have a seat at the table. they want to join the department of defense so they can use the military on citizens.
I’ll die before I allow it. with pleasure and an honor you can’t understand. so attack me all you like. it doesn’t matter. I only pay attention to the mainstream issues on this topic.
you can call me “antivax”. I wear that charge as a badge of honor.
my credibility in my field is no longer at issue. paul's IS. and he lost his as has public health. THAT is the issue.
but it doesn't matter. as long as I live I'll never take another vaccine and I wear your attack of "antivaxxer" as a badge of honor. I remain unbroken in the face of unimaginable hatred and attacks against me.
Paul, the legacy of people in the medical field tanked, it’s pretty clear trust in doctors has never been so low, that’s what happens when people get lied to. Well, used cars salesmen are happy they are no longer the lowest bar in town anymore. The political capital that was burnt up with this covid debacle, who knows if it can be gained back, probably not in our lifetimes.
On the contrary. I have gotten several private messages requesting additional information and my sources ...the books i listed in an earlier post.
Thats why I haven't abandoned this forum
A decade and change ago it was a reference to the book "Dissolving illusions" by Dr Suzanne Humphries; in an online discussion forum that first opened my eyes to the vaccine industry grift
so long as vaccines are suggested and NOT forced on people with mandates of any kind, you do you.
any and ALL mandates in ALL settings have to go. these medical products are shoddily made and I doubt the validity of your claims. in fact we see that vaccines DON'T actually work. the measles vaccine recently in chicago failed many times over, in people that had been vaccinated against it.
and according to paul, correlation doesn't equal causation. so you can't actually say vaccines work at all. in fact when the media stops reporting on measles it seems to disappear. even though there are countless outbreaks every year in communities with 95%+ vaccination rates although we are never told about those. funny how that works.
we're supposed to just take the pharmacuetical industry's word on how great their shoddily made medical products are. theyre so great they must be forced on the public. well, not anymore.
I don't trust the drug companies and therefore I support tight regulation of the pharmaceutical industry.
That does not blind me to the fact that vaccines save 3 million lives a year, and that antibiotics save about as many, and that type 1, and many type 2, diabetics would not survive without insulin.
You would throw out your own baby with the bathwater.
You would cut off your nose to spite your ugly face.
well, that’s funny you make that claim because all your commentary is in support of the pharmaceutical industry.
in my mind the pharmaceutical industry has far too much power and paul is a spokesperson for big pharma masquerading as a “caring doctor” from a children’s hospital. he’s always got a syringe in hand with some strange new shoddily made concotion telling you how safe it is.
"all your commentary is in support of the pharmaceutical industry."
LYING ARSEHOLE.
Don't blame me for your failings in English Comprehension.
"[Dr. Paul Offit] is a spokesperson for big pharma masquerading as a “caring doctor”
LYING ARSEHOLE.
You have no evidence whatsoever, but that never stopped a lying arsehole form making baseless accusations and slandering someone who spent his life saving lives.
LYING ARSEHOLE.
"It’s very weird" --> Omar Locke.
This silly little thing is even clueless about the projection.
not at all. not wanting to consume shoddily made pharmaceutical products doesn't have anything to do with children. that's a pharmaceutical industry talking point.
some of these shoddily made products are on par with cigarettes and should be treated the same way.
okay. multiple people who took mmr actually got mealses. one person got it and it was severe he was an adult. this is not like 3 people it was more like 6-12 people many of them staff. vaccines were mandated. they didn't actually work for those people.
how many times do you need a vaccine to fail. the vaccines failed. thats because theyre shoddily made.
What was gained out of doxxing a public individual contracting for the government that had questions regarding mrna vaccines and wanted to wait to consume these medical products!?
what was gained by doxxing him? what was gained by mocking him? what was gained by ruining long freindships he had? what was gained by taking his hope away?
you answer me. and to be clear. no one will die because of lack of one of these shoddily made medical products and I don't care if people consume them. my quarry and what I will have is the absolute annihilation of mandates in any and ALL settings. not accepting one.
no one can be mandated to consume these shoddily made medical products. you can suggest. you can tell people the benefits and risks of rejecting them but the pharmaceutical industry's veto power over public health and the public commons has been broken. paul and his cadres broke it when they declared war on the public. paul named the combat.
now, you deal with it any way you like. but don't come at me unless youre ready and youre not ready, pal.
Thanks.....anyone with 3rd grade English skills sees how they start lying at the 15 second mark......and then it goes down hill.....getting really stupid!
Thanks again for demonstrating that the anti-vacc liars prey upon morons!
And what are the vaccination rates where there are no mandates? You can count right????
"Vaccines are a multi billion dollar industry. "
That is true.
For-profit health insurance companies have paid billions for vaccines.........because their real-world data demonstrates that vaccinated are so much healthier than unvaccinated.
Of course, the point is that the anti-vacc fraud hurts/kills children.
1. Sorry, I keep expecting you to be functionally literate. Denmark is an example and childhood vaccine rates are around ~91% (2022 according to the Danes).
2. Yes, they do vax vs 100% unvaxxed once again you prove unable to read.
Thank you for this, Dr. Offit. While it is disheartening to read these comments, I'm beginning to breathe a little easier. It looks like Trump might not be elected after all, so for the time being we won't have to worry about it. But ignorance, especially ignorance that takes pride in itself, dies hard.
For heaven sakes Paul when did you wake up to the 21st century. Trump brought your loved genetic serum to be given to every human in the USA whether they needed it or not. Breathe a little easier. May I kindly ask what you are breathing a little easier about? And also can you elaborate on what ignorance you are talking about? Is it the ignorance that most people are not keen on taking what another 8 th booster which most have not been tested in humans. The recent approval by the FDA for yet another COVID “vaccine” was based on antibody levels in animals. There has been no clinical data that has been released by the pharmaceutical companies supporting their claims. So hey, take another COVID vaccine. Vaccinate with the Covid boosters to your hearts content and while you are doing that you can take your flu, pneumonia, shingles, RSV, vaccines… or you could eat healthy, get outdoors, socialize, exercise, get involved in social events, read, engage in life and health. Your amazing body will take of you!
Part of the unique history of the COVID pandemic in the US was the political environment--- the Trump effect. The quick rollout of a vaccine that saved many lives was a great success. But as our information evolved you could see the Biden bureaucrats start to make decisions based on countering the anti-vax narratives, instead of being precisely data-based in their recommendations. I remember thinking when Omicron was shown to be much less lethal and much more contagious, ‘wow, this changes the risk to benefit calculation on just about everything--- vaccine ages, vaccine mandates, masks, boosters, quarantines…,’ but the government only became more rigid in their recommendations.
The vaccinations saved15-25 million worldwide (3 million in the US alone).
The infection ended 15-35 million lives worldwide
During 2021, more than 250,000 unvaccinated Americans died of COVID-19 because they delayed or rejected vaccinations based on antivax lies spread by people like this lunatic.
The travesty is that arseholes like him will never be held responsible for the morbidity and mortality they have helped create through their politically motivated nonsense and abject ignorance of medical science.
I did not even credit that stupid question with an answer, son. I do not need to back up my arguments by listing the books on my bookshelf or, in another case, listing my credentials. You do that when your argument is FAILING. And it is an actual logical fallacy called "The Credentials Logical Fallacy".
The clinical trials reported more all cause deaths and injuries in the shot side, you have anything better than the clinical trial? To say you should expect something different in the population than the trial you’re swimming upstream. Now imagine if they would have used people in the trial that were actually the ones at risk from covid, the shot would have been an even bigger disaster.
If they just tested the over 80s age group, then proving the vaccines worked would have been very simple. But you’d have just whined “but what about the 50 year olds???”
Funny how deaths spiked with vaccine roll outs, but those deaths were excluded from vaxx category until 14 days after 2nd shot. You were either scammed or in on it.
The spikes in death ALWAYS correlated with spikes in infection.
The only time spikes in death correlated with spikes in vaccination was when there was a vaccination roll out IN REPSONSE TO rising infections and deaths.
"those deaths were excluded from vaxx category until 14 days after 2nd shot"
STOP LYING.
The statistics lined up as outlined above even when "vaccinated" was taken from the day of the vaccination. Liar.
"You were ... scammed "
Look in the mirror, son.
You were duped and scammed, drawn and quartered by grifting social media influencers who targeted gullible science illiterate goons like you as easy marks.
Chronic disorders, Myocarditis, Blood Clots, Paralysis, Fertility issues, Turbo Cancers are running amuck. Sudden Death is being debated in various parliamemts and Astrazeneca has pulled its CONvid jab off the market
The nation has never been sicker, and it has gotten sicker along with the growing influence of these institutions. Doing more of what hasn’t worked certainly will generate more revenue and profit for the corporations that rely on people being sick, but is not the solution.
All you have to do is look around you in the grocery store to know it is not a lie. Most of the people who died from COVID had on average 4 chronic conditions.
" Vigilant News is a far-right biased and questionable based on the promotion of propaganda, conspiracy theories, pseudoscience, false claims, poor sourcing, and a lack of transparency"
" Vigilant News is a website that claims to provide “unbiased news and commentary.” The site lacks detailed information about its founders or editorial team. Dallas Ludlum is identified as one of the writers, but his role in ownership is not specified. The contributor, “The Vigilant Fox,” writes about COVID-19 measures, but the absence of verified credentials and strong bias impact the site’s credibility".
"The ownership of Vigilant News is not publicly disclosed, contributing to a lack of transparency."
"The website often features content related to interviews by Tucker Carlson, known for his conservative viewpoints, indicating a specific editorial stance. Vigilant News frequently uses sensational, tabloid-style headlines with emotionally charged language to attract readers. Additionally, the articles often contain fewer words and rely more on videos and pictures for content delivery. This approach may prioritize emotional engagement over factual depth".
imprinting isn't a problem for you. well, okay. that's a defense. I think imprinting is a big issue because it will mean that if a variant comes along that is different than the intial wuham strain in the vaccines everyone took but more virulent, the immune systems of people who get infected will respond as if theyre responding to wuhan one and not the more virulent strain. this will hurt people.
these are not my position. this was vinny racaniello and paul offit. but I guess what they say doesn't matter.
" the mrna vaccines have hurt more than they have helped"
REMEMBER THAT THIS MESSAGE COMES FROM AN ANTIVAX LIAR.
These are the actual facts:
- The mRNA vaccines saved 3 million lives in the US.
- Antivaxxers like this creature helped end the lives of 250,000 unvaccinated Americans in 2021 who either rejected or delayed vaccinations as a result of antivaxxer lies
the numbers youre using are made up. no vaccine has ever saved any life. lives have been lost due to vaccination when people drop dead from consuming them. but no life has ever been "saved".
I am not a liar. I am sayoing that the numbers being used to claim vaccines "save lives" is a made up bnumber and that is true. vaccines as a medical intervention are supposed to prevent hospitalization, severe disease, and death. which in many cases THEY DO NOT DO.
and in some cases like the oral polio vaccine, the vaccine gives people polio an infectious disease that can cause terrible disease. this is a shoddily made product that should be removed from the market.
none of this is misinformation and pharmaceutical products arent always necessary. no one needs to take them. it turns out the pharmaceutical industry doesnt like it when you attack their products so now you people are going witht he slogan "misinformation kills".
well, I don't care about your slogans.ALL mandates gotta go. THAT is my quarry and I will have it.
"the whole "imprinting" things was as big an issue as was predicted"
Two lies:
- It was not predicted. It was known about and looked for.
- It was never a "big issue".
And it would not surprise me if this nong does not even understand the concept.
The way to prevent imprinting is to update vaccines to more closely fit the variants. That was done (just in case) but in practice it did not make a lot of difference because "imprinting" as NOT a "big thing".
it was predicted by several people. they were shouted down and threatened but people did rightly bring it up. I recall it because they said it was "orignial antigenic sin" which up to that point I never knew what that was.
it took a bit but now the pandemic grifters are catching up. they made lots of money uptil now...
I posted a study that showed there is imprinting and vinny racaniello spoke about it on TWiV and then said "well, we didn't know" as a defense and a brush off like it doesn't matter. well it does matter. and the people dying because of that do matter.
those arent lies. it is what is happening to my people and paul and public health owe. theyre going to pay what they owe. ALL mandates are a start but not nearly the end.
Who cares if they keep you alive sick, but even then isn’t life expectancy dropping now? What’s happened to the rate of chronic disease in under 18 year olds? If you can’t accept that young people are less well and trending worse, you’re in denial. Often people that made a career in medicine that should have been practicing healthcare can’t handle this reality. Maybe a course in nutrition to get at root problems would be better than applying ever more drugs to mask symptoms would be a good place to start.
Sure, 50 years on a daily prescription, that sounds healthier. 3/4 of the population overweight or obese, that sounds healthy. Why don’t you guys just take your vaccines and blood thinners, etc, your choice that’s great and leave everyone else alone, their choice, stop being so concerned about everyone else.
"50 years on a daily prescription, that sounds healthier."
They do not get a prescription every day, your silly thing, they get a prescription once a month or once every two months. They get a daily DOSE. In fact, they sometimes get two or three DOSES a day.
And it's healthier than death.
Type 1 diabetes is a disease of childhood, often from the age of 2-5 years, that requires treatment with daily injections of insulin.
Are you really trying to tell yourself that these children would rather die?
- even when they are actually injecting themselves up to three times a day to stay alive!
"leave everyone else alone"
Pandemics and epidemics are community diseases that require community responses. What you do affects others. That's why it matters.
LOOOOOL! you pharmaceutical sales reps are actually funny when you get angry. I swear. it's like youre upset that anyone would dare question your hypocritical cant.
No, life expectancy is on the up again. Must be all those vaccines!
But you are right, the incidence of chronic disease had been rising in younger adults. It seems this predates the pandemic, and was established back in 2019.
Mike S. You are correct that the roots of the increased incidence of chronic diseases predated COVID. Chronic diseases take years to decades to develop and are the culmination of multiple factors: heredity/genetics, environment, and lifestyle. What they have little to do with is our public health system, except that our longer survival, since we've conquered most infectious diseases with antibiotics and vaccines, has allowed us the time to develop chronic, lifestyle-related diseases.
And the horrific denial and neglect of the Trump administration (recall his early prediction that the virus was going to simply disappear) without question led to millions of preventable deaths and left us with the dubious honor of having the worst Covid-19 outcomes among the developed countries. The countries with the best outcomes have strong, centralized medical systems, enabling consistent care and rapid changes in treatment as the science evolves. Rejecting expert advice in favor of bleach and hydroxychloroquine did nothing to improve survival. I have PTSD just thinking about it.
As Aaron Kheriaty has pointed out, American medicine has been given over to managerialism, the belief that experts and bureaucrats are the best positioned to make medical decisions for patients. This approach has nothing but contempt for the fact that every patient is different. And Pierre Kory writes that we are losing the war against cancer due primarily to manipulated trials, censored studies that disagree with those manipulated trials, and the outright corruption of Pharma in its control of media, medical schools, and research not to mention its capture of the regulatory agencies and the federal legislature. Is it any wonder that good physicians are leaving the profession? Is it any surprise that people no longer trust doctors?
Please see both Aaron Kheriaty’s and Pierre Kory’s Substacks which were published today. They are the future of medicine. Offit and those like him are being consigned to the dust bin of history.
While I don't disagree with your assertion that our current medical system is in need of an upgrade, your assertion that we are losing the war against cancer has no basis in fact. In the 20 years I worked as an MD at one of the largest cancers centers in the country, I saw the progress we have made against childhood cancers (especially leukemias, most of which now have a greater than ever chance of 5-year survival). Immunotherapies have been a huge step forward in making treatment more focused and less toxic. These discoveries were made by researchers whose commitment to curing cancer supersedes all others. And, as far as public health is concerned, besides the miracle of vaccines, we can attribute the steep declines in smoking-related deaths, motor vehicle accident deaths, and infant unexplained (SIDS) deaths to public health. The next time you see a child with a bicycle helmet on, consider that it is public health that put it there. We live in a world with others and we have a responsibility to make our collective lives better, not just our own.
Dr. Offit - I'd restack this but it looks like 2/3rds of the comments are ignorant trash and I have no desire to amplify that kind of idiocy. Keep up the good fight.
I’m inured to the anti-vaxxers, and haven’t had too many death threats from them. Also, they’re usually really not very savvy if they even bother to try to be anonymous. I might mute/block if they get too annoying.
The death threats come from the home-grown MAGA cultists. I block them on sight, as well as the trolls that obviously keep St. Petersburg working hours.
the death threats and the vitriol comes from the pharmaceutical industry reps.
those of us asking valid questions wouldn't threaten you at all. we're too busy dismantling your talking points. there's more value in this activity...
John and you just keep taking the shots and the medications promoted by big Pharma and keep believing they have your best interests at heart. And what you think is ignorant trash is what another might think as worth wild knowledge. Funny how that works isn’t it!
"John and you just keep taking the shots and the medications"
Kathy, you just keep getting vaccine preventable diseases and avoiding medications to treat them. I'm sure you'll be fine.
"promoted by big Pharma"
Nope. Promoted by public health experts based on all the evidence provided and evaluated by medical scientists - as opposed to the BS you rely on that is promoted by social media grifters, quacks, and cranks based on their own necessarily extremely limited and completely incompetent research.
"and keep believing they have your best interests at heart".
The world's virologists, epidemiologists, vaccinologists, infectious disease experts, molecular biologists, and public health experts do indeed have our best interests at heart. On the other hand, the only thing the lying social media grifters, quacks, and cranks are interested in is their bank balance.
"And what you think is ignorant trash is what another might think as worth wild knowledge. Funny how that works isn’t it!"
What are you even talking about here?
Are you admitting that you are a gullible, science illiterate, antivax loon?
It is not the case that it has only been thanks to official vaccine recommendations that several VPDs were overcome. The Salk polio vaccine was introduced in 1955, not 1964, and church bells were rung, millions of parents immediately clamoring to get it for their children. And within a few years, not many American children were crippled by polio. Similar for diphtheria in the early 1930s.
Maybe it is true for Hib disease. I had never heard of it before my daughter was born in 2000. Yes, until the vaccine was introduced in the late 1980s, one in 200 babies and small children got a clinical case of it, always serious. One in a thousand died of it.
But it is an example of why it is imperative to respect the right of the parents to freely choose or reject it. The vaccine virtually eliminated Hib disease in children in the countries where it was used. It also introduced peanut allergy for the first time where it was used, in a direct correlation. The Hib protein closely resembles peanut protein, so that one in fifty children has an autoimmune reaction to it, activated by his immune system’s being exposed to the injected vaccine. Most people with a peanut allergy don’t die of it, but some do.
Babies get substantial protection from Hib disease (and many others) if they are breast-fed. And if they are cared for at home rather than in daycare.
As in every other case, it is the parents who have the responsibility to read a lot on the subject and freely decide which risk they would rather take. It is they and their child who will suffer if they make a mistake. Not the doctor. The rate of diagnosed autism in the US is now more than one in thirty children. Vaxxed children. Up from zero in 1930. All the doctor has to say is, “Well, I followed the CDC recommendations. My conscience is completely clear.” While the parents and affected child are burdened for a lifetime.
The Covid vaccine for children was a joke. Very few children suffered a severe case of Covid, while a much larger number had serious or fatal reactions to the vaccine. I don’t believe that many people knew how dangerous and largely ineffective the mRNA and other Covid vaccines would prove to be. But that is just another reason to allow parents to make the free and uncoerced decision. No mandates.
You can't review "the data" because there is no data to support the assertion. These callow fools will say "bu...bu...but VAERS!" and those of us who actually understand the issues will just roll our eyes. (posted to the wrong comment before)
no you wouldn't. and people have to rely on their experience with the shoddily made mrna medical products because pharmaceutical industry studies cannot and should not be trusted.
go read a press release from pfizer for your latest talking points instead of asking questions to delegitimize a valid criticism. the mrna vaccines have done more damage to an untold number opf people than anything else. the worst public disaster in history is the roll out of these medical products.
no one is going to buy the consensus narrative until you people acknowledge it and find ways to help people harmed by these shoddily made medical products.
no. youre practicing a religion. so is paul. I refuse to practice that religion. I find it abhorrent.
the reaction of the public is not always reliable. but sometimes it is and in this case, what I say doesn’t really matter. it is whether or not they trust what paul says when he suggests shoddily made medical products that DOES matter.
no one trusts paul anymore regarding these shoddily made medical products. you don’t have to like it but you will learn to live with it.
ALL vaccine mandates not accepting one. in ANY and ALL setting have to end. there can be no more of them.
YOU are practicing the reliugion now. any criticism of your faith invites vitriolic hatred. if you notice I don't do that. I never attack personally. there is no need. I attack your ideas because theyre so easy to dismantle.
and if indeed I'm in the minority then you have nothing to be worried about. something makes me doubt proponents of vaccine mandates and shoddily made pharmaceutical products are as sanguine as you are...
The only true thing he's said is "no. I'm not clever." That's why he can't discern the simple truth that he's incapable of "dismantling" the facts and the science. That's why he empowers his emotions to give himself permission to believe in delusions and fantasies.
no. I'm not clever. paul named the combat. it was his war he waged on the public.
I have taken so many vaccines I couldn't count them. I never questioned vaccination. My entire family is military. most of the women in my family are nurses. all were proponents of vaccine. all my children and family were vaccinated . flu shots every year.
then the pharmaceutical industry showed us their power. they activated public health authorities on the local level to enforce their policies. anyone with questions was attacked. there is no fraud here. you can call me an "antivaxxer".
I personally, was mocked, ridiculed, attacked, and doxxed. People I considered good friends who have stayed in my home. Ive known them since college. they abandoned me. I cried. I admit it. I longed to hear a kind word. anything to tell me I wasn't the only one with questions. they took my hope away.
I'm coming for mandates and I will have them. they are mine. come hell or high water.
I don't need to do that. it isn't YOU that needs to be convinced and I havent made any attempts to convince YOU of anything. I don't need to do that.
the problem you have is that your data actually weakens your position. you just can't understand why. I hope no one ever lets you know in a way you can understand. I pray they don't.
I don't want you to understand. I don't want peace with you. I want the war paul and his cadre began. there's no going back. youre getting all of this. my terms are mandates. they all must go. I have them already you just don't know it yet.
you don't get it. it's comical. I don't need any data when I'm using YOUR data and information. I only use what paul and people like hotez, vinny racanielloe, heidi larson, stpehen morrison, and katelyn jetelina provide. that's enough to destroy you.
there is no lie. pharmaceutical industry medical products are shoddily made. that's why they have so many adverse reactions. any kind of injectable pain medication that enlarges your prostate is shoddily made when you can use an older drug with less side effects. LOOOOOOL!
Various substackers like Steve Kirsch, Naiomi Wolf and others have analyzed the VAERS data and arrived that the mRNA jab injured children in (significant) numbers compared to their risk of complications SARS-CoV-2 virus. Healthy children IFRs were tiny compared to the risks associated with the jab. Co-morbidities might change the weight given in the risk/benefit decision. And the FLCCC have published protocols for what works to minimize the SARS-CoV-2 disease experience. To that, SARS-CoV-2 had variants which were more problematic than others. The current Omicron variants most parents see no need for the boosters being offered.
Sorry, I do not have a handy reference to who has published their analysis.
LOOOOL! I love hoe people drop names and you begin attacking them. I don't care about any of those people and I don't actually know who they are. although I do know wolf. she was around DC for a while. big name in many circles back in the day.
anyway. none of these names matter. what does matter is that paul is the biggest benefit since wakefield to anyone that wants to destroy mandates and I'm here for it!
Excellent article here Paul, thank you so much, if everyone’s an expert, no one is an expert. I am thankful for expertise in all domains of modern life. I sure hope we can squeak through with this election and stay away from project 2025, otherwise it’s probably time to pack up
Ummm... They really haven't. Maybe in the past but not anymore. They denied that Covid is airborne. They went political when they said vaccinated people don't need to mask, definitely not following the science. And literally one day after Delta's CEO was bitching about the 10 day isolation and wanting that to be cut to 5 days, that's what the CDC did🙁
This was said very early in the pandemic when the prevalence of infection was too low to be a significant enough risk to justify wearing of masks by the general public. Also, masks were in short supply and were needed for health care workers who were at risk of close proximity to people with infection.
It was also said very late in the pandemic, when the prevalence of infection has subsided significantly and when population immunity was high as a result of infection and vaccination.
"definitely not following the science"
Yes, they followed the rapidly changing science as closely as possible in a rapidly changing situation.
Lying hound.
"Delta's CEO"
WTF? Who is "Delta's CEO"?
"10 day isolation ... cut to 5 days"
...with mask wearing for another 5 days.
And why? Because the prevalence of infection was significantly reduced, and population immunity was high as a result of infection and immunisation, and death rates were significantly lower because of high levels of immunity in the population and because most of the vulnerable had already died.
These silly clowns forget that nobody understood SARS-CoV-2 for the first month after we knew we were in trouble.
They either focus on the early incorrect speculations that people capable of understanding what was happening were spitballing between themselves
...or they focus on endless repetition of the lies they slurped up from scammers, grifters, and other incompetents whose goal is to take their money while feeding their need for outrage.
Meanwhile, the financially and politically motivated quacks and cranks that they followed incorrectly predicted almost everything and gave advice that put their health and lives at risk - actually helping to end the lives of the 250,000 unvaccinated Americans who died of COVID-19 in 2021.
I don’t see a denial from the CDC there that the virus could spread through the airborne route, just a slowness in admitting that it was commoner than they first postulated.
Of course, if you can actually provide a link to any CDC statement saying that the virus cannot spread via the airborne route, I will accept your own claims on the matter.
There are several confusions associated with infection, disease and vaccines.
This was clearly demonstrated in 2020, when the public consciousness here in the U.K. conflated COVID19 (disease) with SARS-CoV-2 (infecting virus). Because of this when the COVID19 vaccines arrived there was an assumption that they prevented infection. Virologists will refer to the poliovirus causing polio, the measles virus causing measles etc.
Having symptoms such as fever, lethargy doesn’t mean that you have the disease, it means you have an infection of unknown origin.
Just keep pointing out the lies..Albus.. the lies. Oh my there are so many lies. Again are you the arbitrator of what is a lie and what is the truth? Just stop please. I have never been vaccinated for Covid nor has anyone on my family. I got Covid before vaccines were rolled out, never got it only once..that is the truth. Everyone I know who got vaxxed has had several bouts of Covid, that is the truth. The truth is The Covid vaccine does not stop transmission or infection.
Here we go again. Billy Joe, Albus, Mike S all the arbitrators and know alls of who is illiterate or not, of what is truth and what is lies. They follow the data, the data they believe in, but all other data is lies. What a gift to have such wisdom. What does it feel like? Maybe you can write a Substack on that, of what it feels like to know you are right about everything and everyone else is stupid, illiterate or misinformed and believes in all the lies that the anti-vaxxers, anti -big Pharma, anti-big tech and anti- big government have been telling us. Maybe the people who are too funny are you.. just maybe you can’t discern what are lies from what is truth, maybe just maybe all the truths you believe are lies. But one thing is for certain is that none of you are the arbitrators, you are not the determinators, you are not the ones who can for certain know the truth from lies. I know it’s hard to swallow it. But swallow it. The best evidence we have about the safety and efficacy of the Pfizer COVID vaccine is a phase 3 randomized placebo controlled study.. in over 20 thousand participants. It doesn’t get much closer to the truth than that and what a joke.
"The best evidence we have about the safety and efficacy of the Pfizer COVID vaccine is a phase 3 randomized placebo controlled study"
That is INCORRECT.
Firstly, it is "phase III", not "phase 3".
Secondly, there is what is known as phase IV, which is the post marketing surveillance of (in this case) 5.5 BILLION doses.
After more than 3 years and 5.5 billion doses, the result of the phase III clinical trial does not even matter anymore. Phase IV picked up myocarditis as a rare adverse effect of the vaccine, something which the phase III clinical trial could not possibly have picked up because it was far too underpowered to do so.
You might consider LEARNING SOME SCIENCE before presuming to lecture people on a science-based forum.
They're indistinguishable from the End Times and QAnon cults.
A whole bunch of the people they believe are credible on this subject have been predicting that millions and millions would be dead from the vaccines by now.
They are the conclusions of the recognised experts in the relevant disciplines of science after collating and evaluating all the evidence that scientists in those relevant disciplines have discovered through their painstaking peer-reviewed research.
I have a many decades-long background in both science and medicine, and in critical thinking, that has enabled me to distinguish science from pseudoscience, and genuine scientists from contrarians, mavericks, quacks and cranks.
You, unfortunately, clearly do not have that background and that has resulted in you being a sad victim of those pseudoscientists, non-scientists, contrarians, mavericks, quacks, and cranks who grift for fame and fortune on social media because they couldn't hack peer-review by their fellow scientists.
Just so it is clear to anyone coming in late, the despicable antivax liar has edited his comment to correct the spelling errors and pretending they never happened.
(You can see that his comment has been designated as "edited").
So, not only a science illiterate nong but a deceitful lying snotty nosed little schoolboy as well.
I don't agree with Project 2025 but to say that the CDC didn't fail us is an incredible statement. Recommendations which led to toddlers getting masked, school closures, a heavy push for vaccines for those not at risk -- an unelected fiat bureaucracy based on terror -- incredible. I lost so much respect for this once august institution.
>ROMBIOS THE POLITCALLY MOTIVATED, SCIENCE ILLITERATE, ANTIVAX TROL
"POLITCALLY"
"TROL"
You uneducated moron. Hasnt read a single book on a subject he daily rants about. Please invest in a spell checker and dictionary next; before you mouth off
Offit didn’t say the CDC has never failed us, he said that it and its advisory committees had “served us well”. That’s something you clearly agree with pre-Covid.
But you do think that during Covid it has failed us, because you disagree with its stance on NPIs and vaccines.
IMO it has made some mistakes, particularly with its test which turned out to be defective, and its inconsistent stance on masking, and poor communication. But overall it did a pretty good job given the circumstances (a novel pandemic with all the attached unknowns that came with it).
NPIs ARE effective; their implementation was mainly down to whatever stance individual states took (which mainly followed ideological lines, and not the science) Vaccines similarly are effective. The CDC took the view that more is better, and given the risk Covid posed to everyone (even the young, 2000 of whom have died, with tens of thousands more hospitalised and left with chronic sequelae), few rational individuals could disagree. As Offit pointed out, about 2-3 million lives were estimated to have been saved by them, and hundreds of thousands died because they refused to take them.
CDC is a joke. a fully compromised clown of a public health agency whose chairmen suffer conflitcs of interest and leave to join cushy positions at the pharmaceutical giants they are allied with
I offer you now as before; an opportunity to list the books in your bookshelf and show proof of possession of; the books that inform your opinion on this subject
Now you are literally making up stories. Putting words in my mouth. So lets play that game.
This moron Billy Bob
1. Believes 90% of mortality rates due to childhood illnesses had fallen before the advent of vaccines but that the praise should still go to vaccine manufacturers just because
2. Believes Vaccinated still contract and transmit the very illnesses they were vaccinated against but that doesnt disprove the efficacy narrative put out by vaccine manufacturers
3. Thinks The funded and sponsored studies by pharmaceutical companies (who have received legal judgements and fines in the tune of billions for fraud cases) are completely trustworthy and legitimate
4. Believes he knows more about this subject than "anti vaxxers"; although he hasnt read or owns any books on this subject; even in support of his narrative
Why are you interested in "opinions" of random individuals with no expertise when we have the conclusions of the world's recognised experts in the relevant disciplines of science based on an evaluation of ALL the evidence that they and their colleagues have accumulated.
The antivax Childrens Health Defense?
The lying antivax site founded by RFK junior!
Are you kidding me?
Robert F. Kennedy junior?
The most notorious antivax liar in the US!
Are you kidding me?
Brenda Baletti?
She has a PhD in "human geography" and writes about capitalism and politics.
Recognised experts are people who completed their university science degrees with honours, went on gain a doctorate degree in science, did research and wrote up scientific studies, subjected their ideas to their fellow scientists and, eventually, after many decades of doing this as their day job, rose to the top of their scientific specialty as a result of the overwhelming approval of the scientists in their field.
Thus that definition include credentialed Doctors and Research scientists who DONT agree with your narrative (of which i have books by many such individuals) or just the ones YOU agree with ?
Which credentialled doctors and research scientists?
You mean the contrarians and fringe dwellers that infect every field of science and who grift for fame and fortune on social media to convince science illiterate nongs like you because they failed peer-review and were unable to convince their fellow scientists?
Very few people except the likes of you believe that the Covid vaccines stops transmission and infection. You can post some small studies until the cows come home, but it has been well established that the Covid vaccine does not stop transmission or infection . How do you explain that most people who are getting Covid are more multi vaccinated.
No matter how many times I provide you with the definition.......you just can't understand such a big word as "toxin"
"a poisonous substance that is a specific product of the metabolic activities of a living organism and is usually very unstable, notably toxic when introduced into the tissues, and typically capable of inducing antibody formation"
Still no toxins in vaccines.
You link is still dishonest, selective quoting predicated on you being too stupid to read.
I just looked at the CDC website. They recommend that children as young as six months get vaccinated for Covid because, among other reasons, children can spread it to other family members. Ok, in what reality does Covid vaccination prevent infection? So far as I know, it absolutely does not. Sorry, but the CDC has become a political agency, not a scientific one. While I'm not against vaccination - I'm over 65 and I'm vaccinated - I no longer trust the CDC to provide accurate information to the public.
You could try reading the studies that show the vaccines prevent infection and transmission.
But do vaccines prevent infection? That would imply that they are sterilising. What all vaccines aim to do is prevent or reduce serious illness, hospitalisation, ITU admission and death. If you aren’t vaccinated and depend on the wrongly named natural immunity the same applies, it doesn’t prevent infection.
Just to clarify from John’s Hopkins website
“In general, most vaccines do not completely prevent infection but do prevent the infection from spreading within the body and from causing disease. “
People confuse the term infection and disease in the context of vaccines.
Key word: most.
And also completely
Ok, but that is true about everything.
Nothing works perfectly.
Fact is some do prevent some infections.
You are correct. Vaccines , not just Covid vaccines ,but other vaccines do not prevent infection but they prevent disease. Offit and other reputable scientists in virology and immunology have been saying this for years.
Yes indeed, vaccines prevent disease. Look at tetanus vaccine for example…it prevents ZERO infections.
However, Covid vaccines do prevent infection. They were most successful at this with earlier variants, around 60% or so, falling now to around 25% with Omicron. That is not great, but on a population basis is still enough to impact to a minor degree, and on an individual basis it will help vulnerable individuals avert infection.
Yeah the people who have no actual of grasp of how epidemiology works are stuck on a binary - if a vaccine doesn't prevent 100% of infections it must be preventing 0% of infections.
The Nirvana fallacy.
If it isn’t perfect, it’s useless…
Infections are simply natural immunizations, the important measure is level of illness and mortality.
Of course tetanus and diphtheria vaccines are against the toxins produced by the bacteria rather than the bacteria themselves.
Tetanus vaccine does no such thing
https://vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
No vaccine does
Yes, you still don't understand how to read a graph!
Those studies you cited are worthless population based studies. If the COVID vaccine stops transmission and infection, why has Fauci got his third round of Covid after six boosters? Most people I know who are getting COVID have been overly vaccinated like Fauci. We are not stupid people as you state over and over again. We can just look around us and know most things you say are not true. Pfizer admitted they never tested transmission or prevention of infection. You cite so many studies in your vast amount of evidence that you show we are all falling for the lies. Maybe you are falling from some lies. Usually those that accuse others of lying are lying too. Funny how that works!
Interesting…
It is basic math, understanding %’s, to see you are wrong.
And it is just bad reading skills to see that I have posted non-population based studies.
You are not just wrong, you are just making things up.
However use of vaccines eradicated smallpox thus truly stopping transmission.
vaccines DID NOT eradicate smallpox. that isn't true.
Vaccines didn't single handedly eradicate smallpox.
yes. vaccines didn't eradicate smallpox. thanks for the admission. hopefully that talking point can die now.
Frau: You can add polio to that list.
polio has not been eradicated. the polio vaccine now causes polio. it has for a very long time too.
we need not make reference to the cutter incident.
Yes, polio has not been globally eradicated.
As you just demonstrated, the anti-vaccs prey upon folks that can't count.
reduce, not stop
The government never used the word “ reduce” transmission. They used the word stop transmission. There are so many videos out about how the government and main stream media said it over and over again. Biden, Fauci, Wolensky. All the main stream media, if you get your COvID vaccine that is the end of the road..you will not get COVID or you will not transmit COVID. What a joke. So you who ever you are Mike S. Billy Joe, Albus..you should start a show..like the VIEW..all you who think you are righteous and know the truth from lies. You are in your certain studies of science and medicine and know it all and can look at the data and know what are lies and what is truth. I can’t imagine what it would be like to know what is truth and what is not. What does it feel like? Must feel pretty powerful, like pumping your chest. I don’t know. All those anti-vaxers, all those people who don’t believe what you believe. There are a lot of us. But you know what, you can keep believing what you believe and I can keep believing what I believe..and so far your smart science has not convinced me to believe anything of what you or your cronies believe.
"If the COVID vaccine stops transmission and infection...."
Here are some facts:
- No vaccine stops infection.
- ALL vaccines reduce symptomatic infection (disease) or severely symptomatic infection (severe disease).
- ALL vaccines reduce the risk of transmission.
"why has Fauci got his third round of Covid after six boosters?"
Here are two reasons:
- because the word "reduce" does not mean "reduce by 100%".
- because the risk is much higher in the elderly and Dr. Fauci is now in his 80s.
Here is another reason:
- he has not had 6 boosters.
"Most people I know..."
Anecdotes can generate hypotheses that can be tested in clinical trials, but they are NOT evidence in themselves. In fact, they are WORTHLESS as evidence, which was why science was invented in the first place.
"We are not stupid people..."
Unfortunately, some people ARE stupid. But far more people are not stupid but simply lack training in critical thinking and are, therefore, more easily fooled by grifters, cranks, and charlatans. And most of the population is uneducated or lack expertise in the relevant science: virology, immunology, microbiology, molecular biology, epidemiology, infectious disease, statistics, and public health.
"We can just look around us and know most things you say are not true".
That is not true.
Firstly, anecdotes are not evidence of anything.
Secondly, commonsense is very often misleading. It is part of the reason we actually do science. Commonsense only really works in uncomplicated, simple straightforward situations. Most situations are far too complex to be amenable to common sense explanations (try, for example, explaining relativity or quantum physics using commonsense).
"Pfizer admitted they never tested transmission".
They did not "ADMIT" that they did not test for transmission. They simply stated it as a fact. And they stated it way back in 2020 before their clinical trials even began. They stated publicly that they would not be testing for transmission until after the vaccine was rolled out (after a successful phase III clinical trial) because that would require a far longer clinical trial and people were already dying of COVID-19.
In fact, at the time the first vaccines were rolled out, 4000 Americans were dying of COVID-19 every single day. It made sense to test only for symptomatic infection (disease) and severely symptomatic infection (severe disease).
Besides, NO vaccines are tested for transmission in the phase III clinical trials.
But, as with other vaccines, transmission was tested for subsequently in post marketing surveillance (also called phase IV testing of the vaccine)
"we are all falling for the lies"
Not all of us. Some of us have a background in science and medicine, and training in critical thinking and media studies and, as a result, are not so easily fooled as others with no such background.
"Maybe you are falling from some lies".
That is possible. But it would be to a far lesser degree - and not the BIG lies that grifters, charlatans and cranks feel confident fooling most of their science illiterate audience about. Because of our training in science, medicine, and critical thinking, we are not so easily fooled. You could say that our education has immunised us against vaccination lies but that the immunity is not 100% (but close).
So did Pfizer test transmission? Yes or No
No.
Other people did.
Can you give us one example of a vaccine critic that gets the basic facts correct?
So please point out the basic math understanding % to show I am wrong. And also the non population the non population based studies. The study you posted was a population based study..it doesn’t really matter Albus what you post. You believe what you believe and anyone who doesn’t believe what you believe is stupid and falling for the lies.
Most people you know who get covid are vaccinated is a clear example of your math error.
Explain how you demonstrate reduction in transmission of an infection in a population without performing a population based study, will you?
And what are the basic facts Albus, what you believe?
That the vaccines have been tested and the data shows they do stop transmission.
Must be a drag for you arguing for a fraud, so much easier when the truth is behind you.
Must be shameful for you keep being exposed as supporting a fraud that kills children and is predicted on folks being too stupid to read.
Public health and doctors over the past 40 years have resided over the greatest increase in chronic disease rates society has ever seen, and takes no responsibility, that’s poor leadership. What’s the depression rate among doctors, isn’t it one of the higher professions? Wonder if the weight of carrying the chronic disease disaster is driving that? Ah, all that chronic disease it’s paying for the summer cabin, better not look into it.
This is called the "scattergun approach" or "fire hosing".
Make about a dozen proclamations, none of which are backed up by any evidence whatsoever because all are false, in order to derail the actual topic of the discussion.
Here's the definition:
"Fire hosing is a propaganda tactic that involves pushing out large amounts of false and misleading information at once. The term was first applied to Russian propaganda strategies intended to silence dissent and mislead the public."
Right.
There have been zero environmental changes during that time period!
And your profession has done almost nothing to use your influence to push back against environmental factors like processed foods contributing to society getting sicker - heart and stroke accepts funding from soft drinks, etc. and instead of solving issues at the root cause prescribe drugs to mask symptoms, way better to have a customer for life on statins that fix anything.
And of course vaccines, for them not to be on the table along with all the other factors driving health problems, that’s ridiculous, especially since it is established now with Stanley and Edwards having to acknowledge under oath that all the studies claimed to rule out all these issues simply have never been completed. People are catching on.
Over the last 40 years doctors have presided (note I use the correct verb) over an increase in life expectancy from around 70 years to 78 years.
Since people are living for 8 years longer, it is natural that some "chronic" diseases will be more manifest in those in their late 70s than when they were much younger, such as cardiovascular disease, cancers, etc.
I expect that if average life expectancy reaches to be in the 90s, you would be the one whining that medical science and public health have caused an increase in senile dementia.
https://x.com/drsuneeldhand/status/1824443574764609673?s=46
Thanks for the English lesson. You’re having a hard time accepting that less people respect your profession. Especially the ones that have proven to be pushers for pharma. Thankfully there are doctors (like attached) that recognize the profession for what it has become. I guess it’s not easy getting pushback after such a long run of unquestioned authority, welcome to the real world.
Oh my your rationalization is just mind boggling. The age of death has increased as guess what, people don’t die from infection and bad water. There are more people who die from diseases that they have caused, diabetes, heart disease, liver disease, COPD. Ok so you are telling us people live longer because they have chronic diseases that are treated by pharmaceuticals, and their quality of life is shit!.
I posted the link because you are thick headed. Maybe just maybe they decrease transmission, but they do not stop it. That my dear Albus is just a fact. Even the crazies like you that. And if you are so smart and knowledgeable, why do you go by an alias? I could post a hundred studies that are against your narrative, but you believe what you believe and that is the greatest thing about what is supposed to be free speech in this country. I say hail to you, stand in line for your next injection of the spike protein and all the other vaccines that save lives, but don’t criticize me for not believing what you believe, calling me stupid. I thinks it takes a stupid person to know a stupid person. Keep believing Albus in your God of vaccines. That’s ok. And you know what else is interesting, every time I post something from those you don’t believe in, you discount it like you are the governor of truth and we all believe in lies. It must feel so grand to pump your chest and know that you know the truth from lies. This is the last post I will engage with you! Blessing to your vast knowledge! Keep spreading it.
"I posted the link because you are thick headed. "
I think you are just embarrassed that you didn't read YOUR link correctly. It is right there.....they stop transmission.
I still have hope for you. At some point you will read the words and see that the anti-vaccs really, really do lie about ~everything.
Pfizer has even admitted that they did not test for transmission . That’s been known for quite a while now
So what?
What other vaccine was tested for transmission before licensing? I think that would be none.
Doesn't change the fact that the data shows they do prevent transmission.
https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o298.
Thanks for the link that clearly states the vaccines do prevent transmission and infection.
Did you read it?
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00768-4/fulltext
Thanks for the link to the letter about community transmission--still a different topic.
Did you read it?
seriously? they protect you from infection?
Still reading?
You could try looking at the data......there is a lot of it!
E.g.
VET=Vaccine effectiveness against transmission
"For primary BNT162b2-vaccination we estimated initial VET at 96% (95%CI 95–97) against Alpha,...."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10073587/
Seriously, if you make a tiny effort, it is easy to see that Kirsch and Malone and Lawrie etc are just selling a lot of BS.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00768-4/fulltext
Thanks for the link about community transmission.
You do realize that is a different topic right?
Really, How do you explain that the people who been vaccinated have gotten Covid over and over again?
The virus keeps mutating. Some viruses do not mutate often, so the childhood vaccination you received gives you pretty durable lifelong protection. But SARS-CoV-2 mutates very frequently... but we didn't know this was going to be the case when this virus first emerged (it was a novel (new) virus-- we were learning on the fly). But now that this virus has been around for 4+ years, we know so much more about it.
When the covid vaccines first came out, we hoped they would be a "one and done" and the virus would be behind us. But unfortunately the virus mutates rapidly (like flu), so now we have to get boosters that are matched to the latest-circulating variants (like annual flu shots). But honestly, we can't vaccinate our way out of this pandemic-- it's like playing whack-a-mole. So we need to focus on not getting infected in the first place: by cleaning the indoor air. HEPA filters and Germicidal UV-C work great but are expensive because everyone would have to retrofit their HVAC systems and add HEPA filters and UV-C units to schools, businesses, homes, apartments, etc. And if we can't clean the indoor air, then we have to slap on a personal air filter (aka a mask)... but that apparently is unreasonable for people.
Heres what actual doctors and medical research scientists have to say about the subject
https://rumble.com/v1pb9bf-in-their-own-words-doctors-are-not-experts-on-vaccines.html
Thanks for posting that again.
The video descriptor lies about the ingredients in vaccines.
And the video obvious lies about ~everything!
https://pids.org/education-training/vaccine-education-program/
Thanks for continuing to prove that the anti-vaccs lie about ~everything counting on folks to be too stupid to read,
https://rumble.com/v20bpjc-safe-and-effective-lie-countdown.html
Thanks for posting that again!
All it takes is basic reading skills--and the integrity to read--to see how your link selectively and dishonestly quotes.
Appreciate you demonstrating again that it takes willful stupid to fall for the anti-vacc lies!
Classic case of "dont trust your eyes believe me instead".
Bwahahha
Another basic reading failure from rombios.
I told people to read the documents--you are made because you know your link lies.
The studies are all funded by the vac lcine manufacturers or their public health agency allies.
Dont make me laugh.
These three letter agencies are revolving doors into cushy jobs at various pharmaceutical companies
Translation: no, don't read who funds the studies!
Name them.
Still reading?
I have posted this one many times before.......did you miss that?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10073587/
Name them
Why are you silent?
I have posted this one many times before.......did you miss that?
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanwpc/article/PIIS2666-6065(23)00248-1/fulltext
Here one rather comprehensive study for you:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10073587/#:~:text=Hybrid%20immunity%20(documented%20prior%20infection,4%5D%2C%20%5B5%5D.
they don't.
Most people have the integrity to read the words….then there are anti vaccs like you!
that attack doesn't work on me.
I read the words and I responded with a truth. hate it. but there it is.
That is correct because you lack the integrity.
no I responded witih integrity as well. paul doesn't have any integrity at all. paul is the issue. not me.
"They recommend that children ... get vaccinated for Covid because, among other reasons, children can spread it to other family members. Ok, in what reality does Covid vaccination prevent infection?"
You seem confused about the difference between INFECTION and TRANSMISSION.
1) Vaccines do NOT prevent infection*.
2) Vaccines DO reduce transmission.
*The only circumstances in which vaccines prevent (or reduce the risk of) infection is if the vaccinated person has been vaccinated only recently so that the circulating antibody levels are still very high; and then only if the infecting dose is very low. In those circumstances, the very high levels of circulating antibodies can neutralise the very low viral dose before any virus has had the opportunity to enters a cell.
The COVID-19 vaccines reduced transmission by up to 80% initially and, even now, after many variants, it still reduces transmission by up to 30%.
"the CDC has become a political agency, not a scientific one"
That is incorrect. The CDC follows the advice of medical scientists with expertise in virology, immunology, microbiology, statistics, epidemiology, molecular biology, and public health. The CDC has been portrayed as a political agency by those whose political ideas are invalidated by what the science says.
"I no longer trust the CDC to provide accurate information to the public."
You have been duped by politically motivated individuals who place their "personal freedom" above the health and lives of the public - which includes their own families, friends, and workmates.
I'm not confused in the slightest about the difference between infection and transmission. What you're implying ... wait, you're not implying it, you actually said it ..is that someone who has received a polio vaccine can get (become infected with) polio but not give it to someone else (transmit it). What?
You're also saying this: that I get my baby vaccinated for Covid. My otherwise healthy baby becomes infected with Covid, because vaccines don't prevent infection. Granny, who lives with us and is also vaccinated, then has a SEVENTY PERCENT CHANCE of having the virus transmitted to her. I guess that's slightly better than nothing, but I'm not sure it justifies the very real risks to my baby of vaccination.
The CDC is indeed advised by the group of experts you mention. However, the CDC is under no obligation to actually follow that advice, or anyone's advice. "What the science says", in the case of a NOVEL (new) virus, isn't graven in stone and you're politically duped if you think it is. There are many reputable scientists who disagreed vehemently with the necessity of lockdowns and other draconian measures to fight Covid, and in hindsight, the very scientists who advocated for those measures mostly agree now that they were not necessary, especially the school closings, and did much more harm than good.
I have been duped by no one. You're making an assumption about my politics that is incorrect. In reality, I simply think for myself and draw conclusions based on ALL of the evidence available to me, not just the politically correct evidence that you are so cheerfully espousing.
" wait, you're not implying it, you actually said it ..is that someone who has received a polio vaccine can get (become infected with) polio but not give it to someone else (transmit it). What?'
Quote me, you lying hound.
Saying that infection and transmission are different, and that you clearly confused the two, is not the same as saying there is no connection between the two.
"ou're also saying this: that I get my baby vaccinated ... blah, blah, blah"
You seem to have missed the fact that a vaccinated person has a reduced risk of severe disease, hospitalisation, ICU admission, intubation, and death; and, if they survive, long covid, permanent organ damage, and reduced life expectancy.
Are you in denial or just a pig-ignorant antivaxxer?
"There are many reputable scientists who disagreed vehemently with the necessity of lockdowns "
Reputable scientists?
Don't make me laugh. There are a gaggle of contrarian fringe scientists, pseudoscientists, non-scientists, mavericks, quacks, cranks, and charlatans grifting for fame and fortune on social media.
Reputable scientists, my arse!
"school closings ... did much more harm than good"
Firstly, it was not possible to know either way, but it was certainly reasonable to think they would make a difference. But there was always a question about school closures., and there still is. Even now there is no agreement on whether they helped overall. But there are situations where infections were rampant and schools closed anyway because there were not enough teachers to keep them open.
But this is hardly as case of failure on the part of public health experts. More a learning curve.
"I simply think for myself and draw conclusions based on ALL of the evidence available to me,"
I truly hope you don't believe your own bullshit.
Are you actually trying to tell me that the necessarily very limited research done by a fool with no background in medical science could lead you to a conclusion that rivals that of the world's recognised experts in the relevant fields of science who do this as their day job?
If you actually believe that you are a self-deluded fool.
"the politically correct evidence that you are so cheerfully espousing."
You wish.
Nothing to do with politics or political correctness.
Why I have informed you about are the conclusions of the recognised experts in the relevant fields of science. You haven't even got the background to know who they are, or how to distinguish them from the fringe dwellers, quacks, and cranks grifting for fame and fortune on social media at the expense of YOUR health.
You called me an anti-vaxxer. That's not political? And you apparently missed the fact that I AM VACCINATED, because I am in a group that is likely to have a more severe case of Covid, and I believe (because of actual EVIDENCE) that the Covid vaccine does reduce the risk of severe infection. A healthy 30 year old IS NOT AT RISK OF SEVERE INFECTION FROM COVID, and vaccinating them reduces their risk of transmission only minimally. Forcing them to vaccinate flies in the face of "follow the science". And if you believe YOU aren't espousing a politically motivated point of view, well, then, I don't know what to tell you. Enjoy your I'm right, and people who don't agree with me are stupid life.
Healthy 30 year olds are at lower risk.
"Healthy 30 year olds are at lower risk."
Not going to correct your error?
"You called me an anti-vaxxer. That's not political?"
Nope.
It's an accurate description of who you are.
"And you apparently missed the fact that I AM VACCINATED"
RFK junior is also vaccinated, but he is the most notorious antivaxxer in the world.
And he ALSO denies he is an antivaxxer.
"A healthy 30 year old IS NOT AT RISK OF SEVERE INFECTION FROM COVID,"
STOP LYING.
Because that is what makes you an antivaxxer - LYING ABOUT VACCINES!
A healthy 30-year-old IS at risk of severely symptomatic infection.
A healthy child or adolescent is ALSO at risk of severely symptomatic infection.
STOP LYING.
"vaccinating them reduces their risk of transmission only minimally"
So, you think reducing transmission by up to 30% (and originally by up to 80%) is "minimally"?
You do understand, don't you, the implications of the fact that onward infection from one individual is exponential? Right?
Antivaxxer.
"Forcing them to vaccinate"
And that's the other reason why you are an antivaxxer.
You use common lying antivax tropes such as: "FORCED to get vaccinated!"
Nobody was held down and forcibly vaccinated.
Everyone had a choice.
But, like all choices, this choice came with consequences.
"Forcing them to vaccinate flies in the face of "follow the science"."
Setting aside the ANTIVAX LIE for the moment, how does that even make sense?
"And if you believe YOU aren't espousing a politically motivated point of view"
I don't believe it, I know it.
I follow the science and only the science.
If you believe I am politically motivated, quote me and explain exactly how this means I am motivated by politics because, at the moment, you are just mouthing words.
"Enjoy your I'm right, and people who don't agree with me are stupid life."
It is not about ME being right.
I am telling you what the EXPERTS are saying.
And the RECOGNISED EXPERTS are far, FAR more likely to be right than random arseholes with no relevant qualifications grifting for fame and fortune on social media at the expense of YOUR health.
The science says that vaccination reduces the risk of infection by around 25% for Omicron variant.
If your mother gets covid despite vaccination, her risk of death or serious illness (which is an appreciable risk) is halved.
If your infant gets covid despite vaccination, the risk of serious disease or death is likewise halved even though it is much lower (and it is still not zero).
I don’t know about you, but for me those risks still remain significant enough for me to do what I can to protect my parent/child by recommending vaccination.
The CDC does not provide accurate information to the public.
https://www.drvinayprasad.com/p/the-dishonest-booster-campaign?r=wgq8&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=audio-player
"Vinay Prasad "
Are you kidding me?
That grifting misinformer is, at the very least, antivax-adjacent if not actually antivax.
He has repeatedly made predictions about the pandemic that did not pan out.
Presently, he is busily and embarrassingly trying to rewrite history by denying what he said during the pandemic.
For anyone interested, Dr. Jonathan Howard had exposed this fraud (and others) in his book "They wanted them infected" as well as in numerous blogposts at Science Based Medicine, where he quotes these frauds directly in their own incriminating words.
It’s astonishing to me that facts mean nothing to these people and those physicians and schools who have profited from their misinformation.
I find it astonishing that no matter how many times the data is posted, folks like you refuse to read it.
Oh you mean manipulated data like when people don’t hit vaccinated stats until a time period after their shots? Not vaccinated until 14 days after the second shot, exclude any events that occur prior to that period. You guys are such a fraud, but people are catching on.
Nope.
I mean the studies that Dag lies about, counting on folks to be too stupid to read.
Read above Albus
The studies you cited are a population based study. I’m sure you know what that means with your vast knowledge. Pfizer has admitted they never tested transmission or infection. The global study that was used to get Emergency Use Authorization was based on mild to moderate symptoms in healthy adults. If you really believe what you say that the COVID vaccine prevents infection and transmission, then you are a loner in that belief. So keep on believing that ..sorry you look really silly. Very few people believe that because it is obvious.
I’m sure there is zero chance you will read the studies….. much less learn any bad science…
I read the studies, what a joke. It is a well established fact and obvious to most that the COVID vaccine does not stop transmission or infection. But hey you just keep believing otherwise and get your injections.
Which ones?
" It is a well established fact and obvious to most that the COVID vaccine does not stop transmission"
That is incorrect.
Even now, after many variants, vaccination can reduce transmission by up to 30%
Silence.
So your claim you read the studies was a lie…
"The studies you cited are a population based study."
Please be honest: you just refuse to read the studies and see the facts.
"Pfizer has admitted they never tested transmission"
You have been fooled by grifters, charlatans, and cranks. Pfizer simply stated it as a fact even before the commencement of the clinical trials. Transmission is never tested in phase I, II, and III clinical trials. It is tested after the vaccines are rolled out in phase IV post-marketing surveillance.
"Pfizer ... never tested ... infection"
That's because NO vaccine prevents infection. It is infection that actually stimulates the immune system into responding and that is true even when the immune system has been primed by vaccination.
And any symptoms such as fever or swollen lymph nodes are evidence of a robust innate immune response.
Yes, good point.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00768-4/fulltext
You already posted this link.
It is still about community transmission--still a different topic.
Its called conflict of interest.
Data from groups sponsored by pharmaceutical giants and vaccine manufacturers are worthless. (Especially companys who have faced billion dollar settlements for fraud)
As is the vaccines they manufacturer
https://vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
"Its called conflict of interest."
No it is not.
How sad, you still just can't read the words......no matter how many times they posted right in front of your eyes.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10073587/
No pharma .....no vaccine manufacturers ....no COI.......and not one rational thought yet from rombios!,
https://vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
You cant bypass the historical data on vaccine efficacy (lack thereof). No matter how much you cover your eyes
You changed the topic again!
You don't have the basic reading skills to read the who did the study and who funded the study.
And even with clearly explanations, you just can't read a graph correctly.
I appreciate your continued service in making a mockery of the anti-vaccs!
Please be honest: you simply refuse to read the studies and learn the facts.
https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o298
You already posting this link.
And it still says that the vaccines stop transmission and infection.
They are on record redefining "vaccine" when it became apparent that it neither prevents transmission or safeguards contracting.
Indeed no vaccibe does. Not one
Nope, vaccine is defined in unchanged 1986 law.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=26-USC-222761909-1963936815&term_occur=999&term_src=
Remember 2 basic facts:
1. the anti-vaccs are liars.
2. you literally have to be too stupid to read or to count to fall for their lies........see ~everything you post.
>(2) Vaccine The term “vaccine” means any substance designed to be administered to a human being for the prevention of 1 or more diseases.
CDC Director Walensky Tests Positive For Covid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUmbKImcU5k
Dr. Fauci tests positive for COVID-19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9sU8p0awbs
So both reading and and analytical skills are your kryptonite
So no, you don't care that your claim of redefining the definition of is a lie.
And no, you just can't understand the basic English meaning of the words in the definition.
Seriously: do you have anything to offer that doesn't fail 5th grade?
Whats your obsession with 3rd and 5th graders?
Also you changed the subject again
Vaccination also reduces severity and in turn reduces likelihood of developing long covid.
"studies have shown that some groups of people seem to have a higher likelihood of developing the condition- it is more likely if you are female, have a pre-existing health condition and live in conditions of higher deprivation. Although the condition can develop after mild infection, its more frequently associated with more severe infection."
https://sheenacruickshankimmunology.substack.com/p/long-covid-and-the-toll-on-those
As far as I am aware they are not saying that. Certainly nobody in Canada is. Vaccines saved thousands of lives and killed over 100,000 Americans, the majority unvaccinated. Again the Covid-19 vaccine is similar to the flu vaccine. It does not prevent the flu it only stops you from getting deathly ill and ending up in ICU where they hardly have any beds, let alone nurses to handle the problem. So I guess you can trust mothers and the children, yeah that makes sense. The last time I checked my parents kept us alive from the day we were born with getting our school vaccines and so on. No polio like a friend of my got, now dead, but then he missed the polio vaccine through no fault of his own. I've made it to 75 so I can't really complain. By the way, who needs a brain surgeon, let's just take that junkie off the street and have him operate, he doesn't have to be qualified. If he can recognize a scapel, oh a knife, that should work just fine, let me at him. I'll have him out in no time. I'm glad you trust the government, guys like Donald Trump to look after use, but that will be after they are raking in the billions of dollars they plan to make off the American people once he is re-elected.
Hi Wayne- you should subscribe to Steve Kirsch. Actually his most revnet article from today was on Canada.
Hi Wayne- I would read 2 incredible books
The first one is “The Real Anthony Fauci “ to find everything you want to know about Covid - has over 2000 references. On Vaccines- “Turtles All The Way Down”
And make sure you receive the proper informed consent before you put anything into your body.
As a retired public health nurse, that worked for 32 years in communicable disease program,I can tell you vaccines work. In 1979 when I started many of the vaccines given today did not exist. The general public does not hear the pain in the parents voice when a child as died from a vaccine preventable disease. The general public, parents included,, need to heed the advice of the experts in the field. As new vaccines became available the incidence of that disease in the general population dropped. I will use the pneumococcal vaccine(prevnar) for children as an example. I can remember that we had 25 cases of invasive pneumococcal disease (found in blood) and reportable by law in ICUs in hospital the year before the Prevnar vaccine was given routinely to children. The next year that dropped to 5. I had children in my county die of HIB and chickenpox, two older adults experience the horror of tetanus, although the did survive, several children experience pertussis and according to the parents breathing issues for many years. Immunizations and disease prevention are very personal to me due to the years of experience that the general public and most parents are lucky enough to not have. I also gave thousands of free vaccines through the vaccines for children program to the under and uninsured population and can tell you that the government listens to reactions and changes the vaccine . For one example, the old DTP caused more fever and soreness for children and was changed to DTaP, The oral polio vaccine was changed to the injectable polio vaccine due to the possibility of vaccine related polio due to immunisupression. I followed the advice of the CDC and will continue to follow it with my own vaccines as I age.
As a DVM for 45 years, I vaccinated untold numbers of animals and have clearly seen huge benefits of most animal vaccines. However, upper respiratory viral diseases in every species are notoriously difficult to get solid immunity. This is in part due to the fact that you need both secretory and circulating antibodies to get full protection and since most vaccines are either administered by injection or oral / nasal route they do not provide that dual immunity.
I suspect that those same factors are what render Covid vaccines less effective than many other vaccines in both man and animals. Beyond that, it seems that the Covid virus is unique enough that it has simply upended much our understanding of viruses.
I don't blame the CDC and medical community for struggling to deal with this unique virus but I do fault them for being less than honest about their understanding and fear mongering.
There are several nasal vaccines currently in clinical trials. They provide upper respiratory tract mucosal immunity. Unfortunately election year politics + misinformation + deliberate disinformation + opportunistic grifters have created a climate where BARDA isn't doing anything to accelerate their rollout.
"I don't blame the CDC and medical community for struggling to deal with this unique virus but I do fault them for being less than honest about their understanding and fear mongering."
What dishonesty?
What fear mongering?
There were some understandable mistakes, mostly in messaging, but there was no fear-mongering. What we had mostly was misrepresentation what was actually said, and exaggeration of errors in communication, by vested political interests and antivaxxers with political motivations.
Yet you said nothing about them.
You chose only to attack the very people who helped save up to 15-20 million lives during the pandemic.
With friends like you who needs enemies.
The mortality was greatly overrated initially(https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(21)00029-X/fulltext )
We were told that vaccine would stop transmission - only partially true initially ((https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/preventing-transmission-never-required-covid-vaccines-initial-approval-pfizer-2024-02-12/ ) & now a moot point with Covid infection tens of millions of vaccinated people including the director of the CDC.
We were told that the virus was not airborne and that 6 foot distance was relatively safe ( https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00925-7 ).
I could go on but it is self evident that often they simply didn't know what they said they knew and at other times either lied or times spread half truths (didn't speak honestly about the effectiveness of the vaccine.
Sadly, and to our long term detriment, such actions and similar other ones served to undermine the credibility of our leading health authorities.
"The mortality was greatly overrated"
Stop lying. The mortality rate of a SARS-CoV-2 infection was calculated to be between 0.5% and 1.0% as early as March 2020. The actual mortality rate turned out to be 0.68%.
Your link to a comment in the Lancet does not change that fact.
"We were told that vaccine would stop transmission "
Stop lying. We were told that, because the clinical trials showed that vaccination reduced symptomatic infection (disease), it would LIKELY also REDUCE transmission. The capitalised words expose your two lies.
Subsequent to the vaccination roll out, studies confirmed that the vaccinations did indeed reduce transmission.
"now a moot point with Covid infection tens of millions of vaccinated people"
Don't look now, but you just confused TRANSMISSION with INFECTION.
NO vaccine stops or reduces infection because it is infection that stimulates the vaccine-primed immune response.
And ALL vaccines REDUCE - but do not STOP - transmission.
Learn some science.
"We were told that the virus was not airborne"
Now you are confusing AIRBORNE with AEROSOLISED.
ALL respiratory viruses are airborne. You were never told any different. But they were too slow to recognise that the viral particles also became aerosolised and therefore spread beyond 2 meters and that this method of spread was as significant as it turned out to be.
"6 foot distance was relatively safe"
It was, especially if you also wore a mask.
"I could go on"
Son, you have yet to post a score here!
"simply didn't know what they said they knew ... lied ... spread half truths ... didn't speak honestly about the effectiveness of the vaccine"
Thanks for confirming that you are both arrogantly ignorant and a disgusting liar.
Scientists and health care workers worked around the clock for years on end to save your sorry arse by respectively coming up with vaccines and medications and distributing them.
And STILL not a word from you about the antivaxxers who clacked away at their keyboards in the comfort of their own homes grifting for fame and fportune while doing their best to undo the tireless efforts of the scientists and HCWs.
They provided the lying propaganda that killed 250,000 unvaccinated Americans in 2021 by convincing them to delay or reject vaccinations.
Not a word from you.
Just a disgusting attack on those who saved millions of lives.
“Learn some science”? I have a BS, MS, and medical degree. I have attended many CE course on Immunology and worked in the field 45 years. What are your credentials BJ; and where are your citations for your accusations? I could be wrong, but I suspect you have very little of either.
"The mortality was greatly overrated" “Stop lying. The mortality rate of a SARS-CoV-2 infection was calculated to be between 0.5% and 1.0% as early as March 2020. The actual mortality rate turned out to be 0.68%.” Your Citation?
Let’s talk numbers rather than percentages. The Lancet article I cited: “ One critical report, published on March 16, 2020, received international attention when it predicted 2,200 000 deaths in the USA” Actual number of deaths? 350K,( https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/podcasts/2022/20220107/20220107.htm) - assuming all those deaths were primary due to C-19 and not people who would have died in the next 30 days without a C-19 infection. Mortality predictions were 6.3X higher than actual deaths (thank God!). I think it fair to say that 6.3X too high as “highly over rated”. I suspect most readers would agree.
“COVID-19 was associated with approximately 460,000 deaths in the U.S. during January–December 2021.” https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7117e1.htm
The official 350,831 COVID-19 deaths for 2020 reflects deaths in which COVID was the underlying cause of death. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/podcasts/2022/20220107/20220107.htm
More Covid deaths in 2021 despite mass vaccinations been available for 11 months & improved understanding & Tx methods for C-19. Looks like a pretty low benefit of the massive vaccinations? I’d love to see a NNT calc on that!
“They provided the lying propaganda that killed 250,000 unvaccinated Americans in 2021 by convincing them to delay or reject vaccinations.” The citation in Offit’s post was 232K – looks like you’re playing a little loose with the numbers BJ! Furthermore, the citation states: dCOVID-19-associated death outcome was defined as a death that occurred within 30 days of a laboratory-confirmed positive test and/or was caused by COVID-19. We have no idea how many of those folks also had a severe car accident, severe CVD, or other terminal disease and would have died within 30 days without Covid, That is pretty interesting figure given that the CDC says the total number deaths due to Covid in 2021 was 460K. So over half of those deaths were do to antivaxxers? Seems pretty improbable; perhaps even CDC propaganda.
I am not an antivaxxer. I got the 1st 2 C-19 vaccines & 1 booster. After having 2 mild bouts with C-19 I now rely on my natural immunity and periodic “street boosters”. My wife had a severe reaction to her 2nd C-19 vaccine that resulted in pain and physical limitations for over 2 years. Interestingly, she has not gotten more C-19 vaccinations and has yet to have Covid! I have personally administered or supervised tens of thousands vaccinations and seen major diseases practically eliminated within a couple of years of the introduction of effective vaccines. I agree that antivaxxer did spread disinformation which probably caused unnecessary deaths.
I stand by my statement that the many leading US health officials often simply didn't know what they said they knew and at other times either lied or times spread half truths (didn't speak honestly about the effectiveness of the vaccine). I agree that many worked their tails off and I’m thankful for them. But when Covid became political, truth suffered. It was a hard time, confusing as Hari Krisna.
BOTTOM LINE: The trust of our leading medical officials would be a lot higher in 2024 if they had shown more humility and been more forthright about the what they knew - & didn’t know - about Covid. In the process they made draconian mandates that caused severe financial loss and closure to many small business, job losses and financial stress to tens of millions of employees, learning loss to tens of millions of students, significantly increased the national debt, and suppressed honest discussion. . As a result, Offit (who I highly respected before Covid) and the CDC are on the defensive. It’s a crying shame and will take years if not decades to regain trust.
With that, BJ (or should I say BS?), I bid you farewell as it appears from your posts that you thrive on argument and insult with no apparent credentials and little credibility. Clack on, I’m done with you.
" I have a BS, MS, and medical degree. I have attended many CE course on Immunology and worked in the field 45 years"
I am not surprised to see you trying to prop it up your failing argument by listing your credentials. But I am happy to see that you are at least not a scientist. And having a medical degree does not make you a scientist.
"What are your credentials"
Unlike you, I have more than a passing interest in critical thinking, and I know that if you need to list your credentials that it is tantamount to admitting defeat of your argument. Let your argument stand or fall on its merits, son.
"One critical report, published on March 16, 2020, received international attention when it predicted 2,200 000 deaths in the USA”"
Unlike your argument, that prediction has stood the test of time. The prediction was that, if nothing was done, the US would end up with 2.2 million deaths. At present the toll stands at 1.2 million. Without mitigation measures before the vaccination roll out and without an actual vaccine, that figure of 1.2 million would easily have ballooned out to 2.2 million.
Here's the calculation: The US population (330 million) x 0.68% = 2.25 million.
"assuming all those deaths were primary due to C-19 and not people who would have died in the next 30 days without a C-19 infection"
You had to go there didn't you. A common denialist trope. Used by antivaxxers. They are COVID-19 deaths based on diagnoses on the medical certificate completed by a doctor who treated the patient. They know what condition they were treating their patient for and they know what their patient died of.
"Actual number of deaths? 350K"
That is a blatant lie. The number of COVID-19 deaths stands ar approximately 1.2 million.
"Mortality predictions were 6.3X higher than actual deaths"
Learn some maths. The predictions were less than 2X higher, but they assumed no mitigation measures and no vaccinations.
"More Covid deaths in 2021 despite mass vaccinations been available for 11 months & improved understanding & Tx methods for C-19."
Good Heavens! Another science illiterate nong who does not understand the concept of confounding variables! During 2021, concurrent with the population being vaccinated, the mitigation measures were being rolled back resulting in infection spreading through the population. The US achieved a vaccination rate of only 70% so plenty of targets for the virus.
And guess why you never linked to any studies that directly compared the VACCINATED with the UNVACCINATED? Because it would show very clearly that you are a disgusting LIAR. Early in the pandemic with low levels of population immunity and a large vulnerable population, deaths among the vaccinated was up to 40 times less than for the vaccinated. Even now the risk is 6 times less. And cumulative all-cause mortality in the vaccinated after an infection leveled off after 6 months. In the unvaccinated who got infected it is STILL rising after 3 years.
THAT is how effective vaccinations are.
"We have no idea how many of those folks also had a severe car accident,"
Hello antivaxxer.
THAT is a typical lying antivax narrative.
You, like a most other antivaxxers either still don't know the complete evisceration of that lie or are still lying about it regardless.
People who died of a car accident within 30 days of an infection were only TEMPORARILY listed as dying of the infection. This was for the purposes of detecting increases in population infections and deaths so that appropriate mitigation measures could be implemented as soon as possible in order to limit those deaths.
If they had waited for the medical certificates, that would have caused a 3-month delay in instituting those mitigation measures.
However, the FINAL tally was based on those death certificates written by a doctor who treated the patient.
"I am not an antivaxxer.'
Three things:
1) An antivaxxer is someone who LIES about vaccines
1) You ARE an antivaxxer.
2) Almost ALL antivaxxers DENY they are antivaxxers.
And that includes the most notorious antivaxxer of them all, RFK junior.
"I now rely on my natural immunity and periodic “street boosters”."
And you just denied that you are an antivaxxer!
That's pretty funny.
"My wife...blah, blah, blah"
Personal anecdotes are not evidence.
At most they can generate hypotheses to be scientifically tested.
That has been done and risk of complications including death from infections FAR outweigh the risk of adverse effects form vaccinations.
- mortality rate of the infection: 6,800 per million
- mortality rate of the VV vaccination: 1 per million
- mortality rate of the mRNA vaccination: FAR LESS THAN 1 per million.
And the vaccinations prevented 95% of deaths from the first infection.
"I agree that antivaxxer did spread disinformation which probably caused unnecessary deaths.'
Don't look now, antivaxxer, but you just made a very serious accusation against yourself. Even after 4 years, you are STILL spreading antivax misinformation.
"I stand by my statement that the many leading US health officials often simply didn't know what they said they knew and at other times either lied or times spread half truths (didn't speak honestly about the effectiveness of the vaccine)."
As if someone who STILL does not understand that he is spreading antivax misinformation would have a goddamn clue. And as if anyone should pay any attention whatsoever to what someone like you has to say against those who helped save millions of lives!
"Hari Krisna"
Hare Krishna?
Devolving almost into incoherence now.
"BOTTOM LINE: ...blah, blah, blah"
Shameful.
MANDATES SAVED LIVES.
Hint: you cannot compare mandates during a pandemic with no mandates when there was no pandemic. THAT is what generated that lie about mandates that you, in your world of science illiteracy, sucked up and swallowed whole.
And STILL no blame where it fairly and squarely belongs: the lying antivax loons and their "USEFUL FOOLS" like YOU (some say "USEFUL TOOLS" so take your pick).
If you really are a medical practitioner, you should hold your head in shame. And you should hope that on the occasions that you spread antivax lies during the pandemic, you didn't assist the virus reach its pandemic total of 15-35 million deaths.
Oh, and...
LEARN SOME SCIENCE.
Sadly, people seek to undermine the credibility of scientists by exaggerating their few errors of assumption and downplaying their many statements of fact.
…Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, as they say (well, Voltaire, specifically)
According to for profit life insurance companies the mortality was greatly understated.
LOOOOOOOL!
I really enjoy this fake soul searching after the incalculable damage you people did mocking, ridiculing, and wishing death upon anyone that wouldn't consume these shoddily made medical products.
I have taken untold numbers of vaccines due to my work. I wanted to wait on ONE vaccine for a few years before I took it the damage done to me is irreparable. I was ruined behind what was done to me. my credibility was destroyed. these things are STILL happening to anyone who wouldn't go along with what peiople like paul wanted in perpetuity.
well, I sitlll won't go along and now I won't ever go along with it. it wasn't just the cdc. it was the ama, nih, abim, pediatric organizations, the fda, and many many other organizations. you cannot worm your way out of this one with this trash.
Omar Locke <-- shameless antivax loon.
NOTHING TO SEE HERE.
with pride, brother.
As I said, SHAMELESS antivax loon.
attacking me isn’t going to change any of what paul has done. THAT is why we are here. but I’m not just here. this is all I do now.
there is nothing else. paul and public health named the combat, people like stephen morrison at csis said they were at war with the public and they think they have a seat at the table. they want to join the department of defense so they can use the military on citizens.
I’ll die before I allow it. with pleasure and an honor you can’t understand. so attack me all you like. it doesn’t matter. I only pay attention to the mainstream issues on this topic.
you can call me “antivax”. I wear that charge as a badge of honor.
“..my credibility was destroyed.”
Seems like you still have a problem, sunshine.
my credibility in my field is no longer at issue. paul's IS. and he lost his as has public health. THAT is the issue.
but it doesn't matter. as long as I live I'll never take another vaccine and I wear your attack of "antivaxxer" as a badge of honor. I remain unbroken in the face of unimaginable hatred and attacks against me.
True: You have proven to have no credibility or integrity.
no. I've proven that paul and his like can't take some things from some people.
Paul, the legacy of people in the medical field tanked, it’s pretty clear trust in doctors has never been so low, that’s what happens when people get lied to. Well, used cars salesmen are happy they are no longer the lowest bar in town anymore. The political capital that was burnt up with this covid debacle, who knows if it can be gained back, probably not in our lifetimes.
Telling us that ignorant/stupid people have been deceived by anti vacc liars….. is not a compelling argument!
"it’s pretty clear trust in doctors "
You are too stupid EVEN to realise the relevant people here are medical SCIENTISTS, not medical PRACTITIONERS.
"The political capital that was burnt up"
And too stupid to realise this is about SCIENCE, not POLITICS!
this is a political article and paul started practicing politics when he decided to wade into this world. don't try and back out now.
I’m not “Paul”.
Thank you for your public health service!
Shes got blood on her hands
https://rumble.com/v4vlxrz-the-financial-incentive-to-harm-american-children-with-vaccines.html
Yes, you think that reposting lies that insult the intelligence of the average 10-year-old is a good idea.
You think that I care what you think
The facts are clear: you don't think at all.
But many people in parent support groups are reading your comments and going from vaccine hesitant to hating the anti-vacc liars.
Please, keep up the great work!
On the contrary. I have gotten several private messages requesting additional information and my sources ...the books i listed in an earlier post.
Thats why I haven't abandoned this forum
A decade and change ago it was a reference to the book "Dissolving illusions" by Dr Suzanne Humphries; in an online discussion forum that first opened my eyes to the vaccine industry grift
Thats why I will continue to share this info
Thanks for your expertise and experience.
What a circle jerk. We are watching an episode of out of touch mutual mastubators
Thank you for your service.
I don't care how long you worked or where.
so long as vaccines are suggested and NOT forced on people with mandates of any kind, you do you.
any and ALL mandates in ALL settings have to go. these medical products are shoddily made and I doubt the validity of your claims. in fact we see that vaccines DON'T actually work. the measles vaccine recently in chicago failed many times over, in people that had been vaccinated against it.
and according to paul, correlation doesn't equal causation. so you can't actually say vaccines work at all. in fact when the media stops reporting on measles it seems to disappear. even though there are countless outbreaks every year in communities with 95%+ vaccination rates although we are never told about those. funny how that works.
we're supposed to just take the pharmacuetical industry's word on how great their shoddily made medical products are. theyre so great they must be forced on the public. well, not anymore.
Omar Locke is a SCIENCE ILLITERATE ANTIVAX LOON.
NOTHING TO SEE HERE.
I am anti-pharmaceutical industry. I cannot and will never deny that. "antivaxx" I wear as a badge of honor now.
you can say "nothing to see" but we both know there is something to see and I am going to destroy mandates in any and ALL settings.
Don't be an idiot.
I don't trust the drug companies and therefore I support tight regulation of the pharmaceutical industry.
That does not blind me to the fact that vaccines save 3 million lives a year, and that antibiotics save about as many, and that type 1, and many type 2, diabetics would not survive without insulin.
You would throw out your own baby with the bathwater.
You would cut off your nose to spite your ugly face.
You are an idiot.
well, that’s funny you make that claim because all your commentary is in support of the pharmaceutical industry.
in my mind the pharmaceutical industry has far too much power and paul is a spokesperson for big pharma masquerading as a “caring doctor” from a children’s hospital. he’s always got a syringe in hand with some strange new shoddily made concotion telling you how safe it is.
it’s very weird.
It wouldn't surprise me if you were a MAGA goon!
"all your commentary is in support of the pharmaceutical industry."
LYING ARSEHOLE.
Don't blame me for your failings in English Comprehension.
"[Dr. Paul Offit] is a spokesperson for big pharma masquerading as a “caring doctor”
LYING ARSEHOLE.
You have no evidence whatsoever, but that never stopped a lying arsehole form making baseless accusations and slandering someone who spent his life saving lives.
LYING ARSEHOLE.
"It’s very weird" --> Omar Locke.
This silly little thing is even clueless about the projection.
Too funny.
Actually they are support for health insurance companies.
You know, they pay for the vaccines and they pay for the health expenses of their members.
And with data on millions of people, they find the vaccinated are much healthier !
You have been clear: you are anti-child, and anti-reason, and anti-morality.
not at all. not wanting to consume shoddily made pharmaceutical products doesn't have anything to do with children. that's a pharmaceutical industry talking point.
some of these shoddily made products are on par with cigarettes and should be treated the same way.
You didn’t post any data because anyone with basic math skills see how the anti vaccs lie about Chicago and the outbreaks.
what lie!? the measles vaccine failed over and over again. in ONE migrnat shelter. how many times do you need the vaccine to fail.
LOOOOOOOOL!
The failed claim is a lie, that is why you won’t post the data.
okay. multiple people who took mmr actually got mealses. one person got it and it was severe he was an adult. this is not like 3 people it was more like 6-12 people many of them staff. vaccines were mandated. they didn't actually work for those people.
how many times do you need a vaccine to fail. the vaccines failed. thats because theyre shoddily made.
Ok, you really are going to stupidly lie about everything!
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/73/wr/mm7319a1.htm
What do you get out of lies? You want to watch people refuse vaccines and then maybe die as a result? Is that what makes you happy?
What was gained out of doxxing a public individual contracting for the government that had questions regarding mrna vaccines and wanted to wait to consume these medical products!?
what was gained by doxxing him? what was gained by mocking him? what was gained by ruining long freindships he had? what was gained by taking his hope away?
you answer me. and to be clear. no one will die because of lack of one of these shoddily made medical products and I don't care if people consume them. my quarry and what I will have is the absolute annihilation of mandates in any and ALL settings. not accepting one.
no one can be mandated to consume these shoddily made medical products. you can suggest. you can tell people the benefits and risks of rejecting them but the pharmaceutical industry's veto power over public health and the public commons has been broken. paul and his cadres broke it when they declared war on the public. paul named the combat.
now, you deal with it any way you like. but don't come at me unless youre ready and youre not ready, pal.
so step off.
Calm down, little guy.
Someone call this tiny tot's mammy to come get him and take him home
"Receipt of 1 and 2 doses of measles vaccine is 93% and 97% effective, respectively, in preventing measles."
Yes, the anti-vacc liars prey upon folks that just can't understand 5th grade math.
except when it fails.
LOOOOOOOL!
"these medical products are shoddily made"
Still lying!
no. just an accurate statement.
You have blood on your hands
https://rumble.com/v4vlxrz-the-financial-incentive-to-harm-american-children-with-vaccines.html
And i suspect deep down YOU KNOW IT
Thanks.....anyone with 3rd grade English skills sees how they start lying at the 15 second mark......and then it goes down hill.....getting really stupid!
Thanks again for demonstrating that the anti-vacc liars prey upon morons!
ADHD would prevent you from digesting this info but ill post it for others that come upon this thread
https://wellnessandequality.com/2016/06/20/how-much-money-do-pediatricians-really-make-from-vaccines/
Hey, you changed the subject again. Ashamed by the staggering stupidity of your link?
BTW: if you had a tiny speck of intelligence, you would read the rest of the document that your link DIDN'T post.
Hey! More selective editing counting on folks to be morons!
>Thanks.....anyone with 3rd grade English skills sees how they start lying at the 15
Thats cope.
1) you are NOT the arbiter of truth
2) things dont become true because you say so anymore than they become lies because you say otherwise
Thats not how this works. Nice try though
https://wellnessandequality.com/2016/06/20/how-much-money-do-pediatricians-really-make-from-vaccines/
Nope, you just don't have the 3rd grade reading skills to see the lies.
https://rumble.com/v4vrie8-financial-incentives-given-doctors-to-poison-our-kids-with-vaccines.html
Vaccines are a multi billion dollar industry. Because its mandated not because its effective
"Bevause its mandated not because its effective"
And what are the vaccination rates where there are no mandates? You can count right????
"Vaccines are a multi billion dollar industry. "
That is true.
For-profit health insurance companies have paid billions for vaccines.........because their real-world data demonstrates that vaccinated are so much healthier than unvaccinated.
Of course, the point is that the anti-vacc fraud hurts/kills children.
>And what are the vaccination rates where there are no mandates? You can count right????
You just raised that issue. Why are you changing the subject. Now you have to provide those numbers
>For-profit health insurance companies have paid billions for vaccines.........because their real-world …
No they havent proven anything. Thats why the refuse to conduct Vax vs Unvax studies.
But some countries have conducted Epidemiological studies …
1. Sorry, I keep expecting you to be functionally literate. Denmark is an example and childhood vaccine rates are around ~91% (2022 according to the Danes).
2. Yes, they do vax vs 100% unvaxxed once again you prove unable to read.
https://vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
The data says otherwise
Yes rombios, you have made it clear that reading a graph is way, way too difficult for you!
Should I post up Merriam Websters definition of "projection" YET AGAIN? How many times must I do this to get it through your thick head ?
No, you should explain how to interpret your graphs.
Also, explain what to graph to understand the impact of vaccines.
Too bad you clearly can't!
Its self explanatory. And its not my graph.
Thank you for this, Dr. Offit. While it is disheartening to read these comments, I'm beginning to breathe a little easier. It looks like Trump might not be elected after all, so for the time being we won't have to worry about it. But ignorance, especially ignorance that takes pride in itself, dies hard.
It's going to be close, so we can't take that for granted!
Definitely
For heaven sakes Paul when did you wake up to the 21st century. Trump brought your loved genetic serum to be given to every human in the USA whether they needed it or not. Breathe a little easier. May I kindly ask what you are breathing a little easier about? And also can you elaborate on what ignorance you are talking about? Is it the ignorance that most people are not keen on taking what another 8 th booster which most have not been tested in humans. The recent approval by the FDA for yet another COVID “vaccine” was based on antibody levels in animals. There has been no clinical data that has been released by the pharmaceutical companies supporting their claims. So hey, take another COVID vaccine. Vaccinate with the Covid boosters to your hearts content and while you are doing that you can take your flu, pneumonia, shingles, RSV, vaccines… or you could eat healthy, get outdoors, socialize, exercise, get involved in social events, read, engage in life and health. Your amazing body will take of you!
"The recent approval by the FDA for yet another COVID “vaccine” was based on antibody levels in animals"
All you had to do was to read the FDA site to see there is no new approved vaccine.
https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/covid-19-vaccines
In any case he has dropped Project 2025.
Don't believe it!
Part of the unique history of the COVID pandemic in the US was the political environment--- the Trump effect. The quick rollout of a vaccine that saved many lives was a great success. But as our information evolved you could see the Biden bureaucrats start to make decisions based on countering the anti-vax narratives, instead of being precisely data-based in their recommendations. I remember thinking when Omicron was shown to be much less lethal and much more contagious, ‘wow, this changes the risk to benefit calculation on just about everything--- vaccine ages, vaccine mandates, masks, boosters, quarantines…,’ but the government only became more rigid in their recommendations.
mrna vaccines saved no lives. not one. in fact the vaccine harmed more people than it helped.
I have no commentary on the rest of your comment.
Omar Locke is a science illiterate, antivax loon.
The vaccinations saved15-25 million worldwide (3 million in the US alone).
The infection ended 15-35 million lives worldwide
During 2021, more than 250,000 unvaccinated Americans died of COVID-19 because they delayed or rejected vaccinations based on antivax lies spread by people like this lunatic.
The travesty is that arseholes like him will never be held responsible for the morbidity and mortality they have helped create through their politically motivated nonsense and abject ignorance of medical science.
This is the same moron who hasnt read or in possession of a single book on this subject.
You are joke Billy Bob. Foolish pharma shill and tot
ROMBIOS KEEPS LYING:
I did not even credit that stupid question with an answer, son. I do not need to back up my arguments by listing the books on my bookshelf or, in another case, listing my credentials. You do that when your argument is FAILING. And it is an actual logical fallacy called "The Credentials Logical Fallacy".
GET A CLUE.
LEARN SOME CRITICAL THINKING.
Thats called projection and misdirection.
Imagine to be so wedded to an idea one hadnt read a single book on?
Zero INTELLECTUAL curiosity even for a subject you favor as a provaxxer. Shame on your handlers
The entirety of your arguments here are sourced from television programming and pharma talking points.
How can you not have a single pro vax book in your posession?
Please refer to my previous demolitions of your ignorant anti-vaccination and science illiterate talking points.
I don't have to keep sinking the rubber ducky.
You didn’t post any data!
no need.
No, you are just lying.
no. just facts and what paul, peter, and heidi claim. I only listen to them and people liek them in the mainstream.
Fact is you can't provide any data or any references to Paul et al because you just keep lying.
Because you can’t dispute facts, Omar.
Those arent facts; they are carefully crafted and massaged data funded by the very organizations pushing vaccines
How many boosters will you take before you finally wake up?
"they are carefully crafted and massaged data funded by the very organizations pushing vaccines"
I keep putting the words in front of your eyes.......but I can't give you 3rd grade reading skills.
Get off 3rd graders subject thread; you fricking pervert
well, no. I just don't have any comments on the remained of their comment.
The clinical trials reported more all cause deaths and injuries in the shot side, you have anything better than the clinical trial? To say you should expect something different in the population than the trial you’re swimming upstream. Now imagine if they would have used people in the trial that were actually the ones at risk from covid, the shot would have been an even bigger disaster.
Most folks have the kindergarten level counting skills to read the number of deaths and injuries…..then there are the anti vacc liars!
Smart enough to see FALSE positive PCR tests and death cause relabeling for the grift it is.
But Ignorant pro vaxxers on their 8 booster and still havent gotten a clue
Oh dear, you still just can't count to 4 correctly!
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577#supplementary-materials
You are a gift that just keeps giving!
So according to you the trials DIDN’T use subjects who were at risk from Covid?
Yet they still showed the vaccine clearly reduced the risk of serious disease and deaths from Covid?
…Wow! That means that in standard practice they must be even MORE effective than the trials demonstrated!
Go ahead tell me that someone over 80 was not a more appropriate study group than 35-50 year olds.
Go ahead and give us the power calculation for doing a study with 80+.
"Go ahead tell me that someone over 80 was not a more appropriate study group than 35-50 year olds.'
I can confidently tell you that.
That's why NO phase III clinical trials are done on 80 years olds.
Or children.
Or pregnant people.
LEARN SOME SCIENCE.
If they just tested the over 80s age group, then proving the vaccines worked would have been very simple. But you’d have just whined “but what about the 50 year olds???”
Your facts Mike are your facts Mike. They are your truth which is not the truth, but what you believe.
https://open.substack.com/pub/wherearethenumbers/p/why-we-cannot-ignore-the-lancet-claim?r=wgq8&utm_medium=ios
Shocking! A scam Substack that preys upon folks that don’t understand the math!
Norman Fenton?
Are you kidding me!
I'll watch your misleading video if you'll watch these videos that correct his nonsense:
1) "Prof Norman Fenton decides to target me. Does he have a problem with women?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvxqyCZlKO0&t=12s
2) "Dr John Campbell and Prof Norman Fenton CONFUSED by ONS/NHS statistics"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ef7J9h49AI
3) "Lies, damn lies, and Fenton/Campbell misrepresentation of ONS statistics"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH6gWAOmLUw&t=2s
" Omicron was shown to be much less lethal and much more contagious"
More people died during the Omicron wave that the Delta wave before it.
Stop lying.
Funny how deaths spiked with vaccine roll outs, but those deaths were excluded from vaxx category until 14 days after 2nd shot. You were either scammed or in on it.
"deaths spiked with vaccine roll outs"
THAT IS A BLATANT LIE.
The spikes in death ALWAYS correlated with spikes in infection.
The only time spikes in death correlated with spikes in vaccination was when there was a vaccination roll out IN REPSONSE TO rising infections and deaths.
"those deaths were excluded from vaxx category until 14 days after 2nd shot"
STOP LYING.
The statistics lined up as outlined above even when "vaccinated" was taken from the day of the vaccination. Liar.
"You were ... scammed "
Look in the mirror, son.
You were duped and scammed, drawn and quartered by grifting social media influencers who targeted gullible science illiterate goons like you as easy marks.
Bad: you lied counting on folks to be too stupid to count.
Worse: you don't have the integrity to correct your BS.
You are still lying.
Sorry bub, but deaths (both deaths from Covid AND all cause mortality) dropped with vaccine rollouts.
Stop lying.
Great success?
Have you been asleep for 4 years??
Chronic disorders, Myocarditis, Blood Clots, Paralysis, Fertility issues, Turbo Cancers are running amuck. Sudden Death is being debated in various parliamemts and Astrazeneca has pulled its CONvid jab off the market
"Have you been asleep for 4 years??"
Nope, we have watched the anti-vacc liars prey upon folks that can't read or count.
Yet your the idiots that
Took a jab for a flu derivative with a 99.9% recovery rate
Then queued up for
booster 1
booster 2
booster 3
booster 4
booster 5
Bivalent 1
Bibalent 2
Please look up the definition of "insanity"
The nation has never been sicker, and it has gotten sicker along with the growing influence of these institutions. Doing more of what hasn’t worked certainly will generate more revenue and profit for the corporations that rely on people being sick, but is not the solution.
Most people immediately see through the “nation has never been sicker” lie….
All you have to do is look around you in the grocery store to know it is not a lie. Most of the people who died from COVID had on average 4 chronic conditions.
https://open.substack.com/pub/vigilantfox/p/you-dont-know-how-sick-america-is?r=wgq8&utm_medium=ios
Great,
Now compare them to people from 1794 or 1824 etc….. when 50%+ of those folks would have been dead already!
You are kidding really. Oh my!
Math too difficult for you?
The Vigilant Fox?
Are you kidding me!
This is the Vigilant Fox:
" Vigilant News is a far-right biased and questionable based on the promotion of propaganda, conspiracy theories, pseudoscience, false claims, poor sourcing, and a lack of transparency"
" Vigilant News is a website that claims to provide “unbiased news and commentary.” The site lacks detailed information about its founders or editorial team. Dallas Ludlum is identified as one of the writers, but his role in ownership is not specified. The contributor, “The Vigilant Fox,” writes about COVID-19 measures, but the absence of verified credentials and strong bias impact the site’s credibility".
"The ownership of Vigilant News is not publicly disclosed, contributing to a lack of transparency."
"The website often features content related to interviews by Tucker Carlson, known for his conservative viewpoints, indicating a specific editorial stance. Vigilant News frequently uses sensational, tabloid-style headlines with emotionally charged language to attract readers. Additionally, the articles often contain fewer words and rely more on videos and pictures for content delivery. This approach may prioritize emotional engagement over factual depth".
So this “sickness” in the US must have predated the pandemic and the vaccines?
that is actually true. the mrna vaccines have hurt more than they have helped.
turns out the whole "imprinting" things was as big an issue as was predicted...
What is true is that you provided zero data to support your obvious lie.
https://newsroom.uw.edu/news-releases/study-finds-immune-imprinting-response-to-covid
read it and weep. LOOOOOL!
Where exactly in your study does it show anyone was hurt by the vaccines?
imprinting isn't a problem for you. well, okay. that's a defense. I think imprinting is a big issue because it will mean that if a variant comes along that is different than the intial wuham strain in the vaccines everyone took but more virulent, the immune systems of people who get infected will respond as if theyre responding to wuhan one and not the more virulent strain. this will hurt people.
these are not my position. this was vinny racaniello and paul offit. but I guess what they say doesn't matter.
I agree. no one should listen to them.
" the mrna vaccines have hurt more than they have helped"
REMEMBER THAT THIS MESSAGE COMES FROM AN ANTIVAX LIAR.
These are the actual facts:
- The mRNA vaccines saved 3 million lives in the US.
- Antivaxxers like this creature helped end the lives of 250,000 unvaccinated Americans in 2021 who either rejected or delayed vaccinations as a result of antivaxxer lies
the numbers youre using are made up. no vaccine has ever saved any life. lives have been lost due to vaccination when people drop dead from consuming them. but no life has ever been "saved".
If you must lie, you should try not to be a complete moron.
You are a blatant LIAR.
It is about time LIARS like you are dealt with on social media.
Misinformation Kills.
You are a goddamn Public Health Hazard.
I am not a liar. I am sayoing that the numbers being used to claim vaccines "save lives" is a made up bnumber and that is true. vaccines as a medical intervention are supposed to prevent hospitalization, severe disease, and death. which in many cases THEY DO NOT DO.
and in some cases like the oral polio vaccine, the vaccine gives people polio an infectious disease that can cause terrible disease. this is a shoddily made product that should be removed from the market.
none of this is misinformation and pharmaceutical products arent always necessary. no one needs to take them. it turns out the pharmaceutical industry doesnt like it when you attack their products so now you people are going witht he slogan "misinformation kills".
well, I don't care about your slogans.ALL mandates gotta go. THAT is my quarry and I will have it.
"the whole "imprinting" things was as big an issue as was predicted"
Two lies:
- It was not predicted. It was known about and looked for.
- It was never a "big issue".
And it would not surprise me if this nong does not even understand the concept.
The way to prevent imprinting is to update vaccines to more closely fit the variants. That was done (just in case) but in practice it did not make a lot of difference because "imprinting" as NOT a "big thing".
it was predicted by several people. they were shouted down and threatened but people did rightly bring it up. I recall it because they said it was "orignial antigenic sin" which up to that point I never knew what that was.
it took a bit but now the pandemic grifters are catching up. they made lots of money uptil now...
Correction: anti vaccs lied, counting on folks to be morons.
Stop lying. It was not predicted. It was known about. And looked out for. And to date there is no evidence that it applies to the mRNA vaccines.
YOU ARE A SHAMELESS LIAR.
I posted a study that showed there is imprinting and vinny racaniello spoke about it on TWiV and then said "well, we didn't know" as a defense and a brush off like it doesn't matter. well it does matter. and the people dying because of that do matter.
those arent lies. it is what is happening to my people and paul and public health owe. theyre going to pay what they owe. ALL mandates are a start but not nearly the end.
“The nation has never been sicker”
Absolute BS.
The average life expectancy is way higher than it was in the past; in the 1970s it was around 72 years. Now it’s at what…76 years?
It dipped during the COVID pandemic but recovered in 2022 as the covid mortality dropped and vaccines kicked in.
Who cares if they keep you alive sick, but even then isn’t life expectancy dropping now? What’s happened to the rate of chronic disease in under 18 year olds? If you can’t accept that young people are less well and trending worse, you’re in denial. Often people that made a career in medicine that should have been practicing healthcare can’t handle this reality. Maybe a course in nutrition to get at root problems would be better than applying ever more drugs to mask symptoms would be a good place to start.
Moral people care that you keep posting really stupid lies.
LISTEN YOU FOOL:
Life expectancy is increasing.
That means thatr we are NOT getting sicker.
Okay?
LEARN SOME CRITICAL THINKING.
Sure, 50 years on a daily prescription, that sounds healthier. 3/4 of the population overweight or obese, that sounds healthy. Why don’t you guys just take your vaccines and blood thinners, etc, your choice that’s great and leave everyone else alone, their choice, stop being so concerned about everyone else.
Good point: Dead people don’t need any treatments!
"50 years on a daily prescription, that sounds healthier."
They do not get a prescription every day, your silly thing, they get a prescription once a month or once every two months. They get a daily DOSE. In fact, they sometimes get two or three DOSES a day.
And it's healthier than death.
Type 1 diabetes is a disease of childhood, often from the age of 2-5 years, that requires treatment with daily injections of insulin.
Are you really trying to tell yourself that these children would rather die?
- even when they are actually injecting themselves up to three times a day to stay alive!
"leave everyone else alone"
Pandemics and epidemics are community diseases that require community responses. What you do affects others. That's why it matters.
The fact that we live longer means that some degenerative and chronic disease becomes more prevalent; is that simple, self evident logic beyond you?
LOOOOOL! you pharmaceutical sales reps are actually funny when you get angry. I swear. it's like youre upset that anyone would dare question your hypocritical cant.
No, life expectancy is on the up again. Must be all those vaccines!
But you are right, the incidence of chronic disease had been rising in younger adults. It seems this predates the pandemic, and was established back in 2019.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7130a3.htm#:~:text=In%202019%2C%2053.8%25%20of%20adults,implications%20for%20public%20health%20practice%3F
Tell me, who was in power and who was the President back then?
Remind me, so I can work out who to blame?
Mike S. You are correct that the roots of the increased incidence of chronic diseases predated COVID. Chronic diseases take years to decades to develop and are the culmination of multiple factors: heredity/genetics, environment, and lifestyle. What they have little to do with is our public health system, except that our longer survival, since we've conquered most infectious diseases with antibiotics and vaccines, has allowed us the time to develop chronic, lifestyle-related diseases.
And the horrific denial and neglect of the Trump administration (recall his early prediction that the virus was going to simply disappear) without question led to millions of preventable deaths and left us with the dubious honor of having the worst Covid-19 outcomes among the developed countries. The countries with the best outcomes have strong, centralized medical systems, enabling consistent care and rapid changes in treatment as the science evolves. Rejecting expert advice in favor of bleach and hydroxychloroquine did nothing to improve survival. I have PTSD just thinking about it.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/03/25/1164819944/live-free-and-die-the-sad-state-of-u-s-life-expectancy
Yes, the anti vacc liars count on folks being too stupid to read your link.
"The nation has never been sicker"
Why do you even bother!
That is a very obvious lie.
Look up trends in life expectancy over the past 100 years.!
"more revenue and profit for the corporations that rely on people being sick"
The irony.
And the idiocy.
Vaccinations PREVENT illness!
Nearly 95% of drug companies main profit is indeed through treatment of disease.
And only about 5% of drug companies main profit is through vaccines.
This is a home goal!
As Aaron Kheriaty has pointed out, American medicine has been given over to managerialism, the belief that experts and bureaucrats are the best positioned to make medical decisions for patients. This approach has nothing but contempt for the fact that every patient is different. And Pierre Kory writes that we are losing the war against cancer due primarily to manipulated trials, censored studies that disagree with those manipulated trials, and the outright corruption of Pharma in its control of media, medical schools, and research not to mention its capture of the regulatory agencies and the federal legislature. Is it any wonder that good physicians are leaving the profession? Is it any surprise that people no longer trust doctors?
Please see both Aaron Kheriaty’s and Pierre Kory’s Substacks which were published today. They are the future of medicine. Offit and those like him are being consigned to the dust bin of history.
Good thing I have posted the proof that Kory is a scammer that preys upon folks too clueless to read or count.
Guess there is no chance you will read why he lost his credentials.
While I don't disagree with your assertion that our current medical system is in need of an upgrade, your assertion that we are losing the war against cancer has no basis in fact. In the 20 years I worked as an MD at one of the largest cancers centers in the country, I saw the progress we have made against childhood cancers (especially leukemias, most of which now have a greater than ever chance of 5-year survival). Immunotherapies have been a huge step forward in making treatment more focused and less toxic. These discoveries were made by researchers whose commitment to curing cancer supersedes all others. And, as far as public health is concerned, besides the miracle of vaccines, we can attribute the steep declines in smoking-related deaths, motor vehicle accident deaths, and infant unexplained (SIDS) deaths to public health. The next time you see a child with a bicycle helmet on, consider that it is public health that put it there. We live in a world with others and we have a responsibility to make our collective lives better, not just our own.
Thanks for your dedication and expertise. I’m afraid there are some here who will scoff and whine, but they are ignorant trolls and fools.
Aaron Kheriaty?
- He is a psychiatrist, not a virologist, immunologist, or infectious disease specialist.
- He was fired by his university for spreading disinformation during the pandemic.
Pierre Kory?
- One of the founders of the anti-vaccine, pro-ivermectin FLCCC Alliance.
- He has had his board certification revoked by the American Board of Internal Medicine for spreading disinformation during the pandemic
Are you kidding me?
I sincerely hope a delicensed doctor shown to have committed scientific fraud is not “the future of medicine”.
But pharmaceutical companies who have faced multi billion dollar fraud judgements are ?
Naturally you are on the side of fraud.....but not data.
Dr. Offit - I'd restack this but it looks like 2/3rds of the comments are ignorant trash and I have no desire to amplify that kind of idiocy. Keep up the good fight.
The same loons show up on every post. It’s too bad Substack doesn’t have a “mute commenter” function like the WSJ.
Substack does allow you to mute or block.
I’m inured to the anti-vaxxers, and haven’t had too many death threats from them. Also, they’re usually really not very savvy if they even bother to try to be anonymous. I might mute/block if they get too annoying.
The death threats come from the home-grown MAGA cultists. I block them on sight, as well as the trolls that obviously keep St. Petersburg working hours.
the death threats and the vitriol comes from the pharmaceutical industry reps.
those of us asking valid questions wouldn't threaten you at all. we're too busy dismantling your talking points. there's more value in this activity...
John and you just keep taking the shots and the medications promoted by big Pharma and keep believing they have your best interests at heart. And what you think is ignorant trash is what another might think as worth wild knowledge. Funny how that works isn’t it!
"John and you just keep taking the shots and the medications"
Kathy, you just keep getting vaccine preventable diseases and avoiding medications to treat them. I'm sure you'll be fine.
"promoted by big Pharma"
Nope. Promoted by public health experts based on all the evidence provided and evaluated by medical scientists - as opposed to the BS you rely on that is promoted by social media grifters, quacks, and cranks based on their own necessarily extremely limited and completely incompetent research.
"and keep believing they have your best interests at heart".
The world's virologists, epidemiologists, vaccinologists, infectious disease experts, molecular biologists, and public health experts do indeed have our best interests at heart. On the other hand, the only thing the lying social media grifters, quacks, and cranks are interested in is their bank balance.
"And what you think is ignorant trash is what another might think as worth wild knowledge. Funny how that works isn’t it!"
What are you even talking about here?
Are you admitting that you are a gullible, science illiterate, antivax loon?
Shorter, Kathy: "Yes."
Hey!
What do life insurance companies say!
What do health insurance companies/national care systems say?
They have the data on countless millions of people!
Don't bother. They've "done their own research." Too bad they never did the work to learn basic statistics and immunology.
But hey, they "know what's right for them" and nobody else matters.
Fair enough.
FYI there are non-posters that are reading the comments and learning exactly what the anti vaccs are.
I've been on social media trolling anti-vaxxers with actual facts since 2009. I hope the non-posters are internalizing the actual facts.
Why are you silent on what health insurance companies say?
They do pay for the vaccines......
And they do pay for the healthcare costs of their clients.......
And they do have data on millions and millions of people.....
It is not the case that it has only been thanks to official vaccine recommendations that several VPDs were overcome. The Salk polio vaccine was introduced in 1955, not 1964, and church bells were rung, millions of parents immediately clamoring to get it for their children. And within a few years, not many American children were crippled by polio. Similar for diphtheria in the early 1930s.
Maybe it is true for Hib disease. I had never heard of it before my daughter was born in 2000. Yes, until the vaccine was introduced in the late 1980s, one in 200 babies and small children got a clinical case of it, always serious. One in a thousand died of it.
But it is an example of why it is imperative to respect the right of the parents to freely choose or reject it. The vaccine virtually eliminated Hib disease in children in the countries where it was used. It also introduced peanut allergy for the first time where it was used, in a direct correlation. The Hib protein closely resembles peanut protein, so that one in fifty children has an autoimmune reaction to it, activated by his immune system’s being exposed to the injected vaccine. Most people with a peanut allergy don’t die of it, but some do.
Babies get substantial protection from Hib disease (and many others) if they are breast-fed. And if they are cared for at home rather than in daycare.
As in every other case, it is the parents who have the responsibility to read a lot on the subject and freely decide which risk they would rather take. It is they and their child who will suffer if they make a mistake. Not the doctor. The rate of diagnosed autism in the US is now more than one in thirty children. Vaxxed children. Up from zero in 1930. All the doctor has to say is, “Well, I followed the CDC recommendations. My conscience is completely clear.” While the parents and affected child are burdened for a lifetime.
The Covid vaccine for children was a joke. Very few children suffered a severe case of Covid, while a much larger number had serious or fatal reactions to the vaccine. I don’t believe that many people knew how dangerous and largely ineffective the mRNA and other Covid vaccines would prove to be. But that is just another reason to allow parents to make the free and uncoerced decision. No mandates.
What is the source for your statement that "a much larger number had serious or fatal reactions to the vaccine"? I would like to review the data.
Good luck ever getting an honest or competent response from Cia.
You can't review "the data" because there is no data to support the assertion. These callow fools will say "bu...bu...but VAERS!" and those of us who actually understand the issues will just roll our eyes. (posted to the wrong comment before)
no you wouldn't. and people have to rely on their experience with the shoddily made mrna medical products because pharmaceutical industry studies cannot and should not be trusted.
go read a press release from pfizer for your latest talking points instead of asking questions to delegitimize a valid criticism. the mrna vaccines have done more damage to an untold number opf people than anything else. the worst public disaster in history is the roll out of these medical products.
no one is going to buy the consensus narrative until you people acknowledge it and find ways to help people harmed by these shoddily made medical products.
Go look through all of Omar’s postings.
Try to find any data….
FROM THE ANTIVAX LOON:
"people have to rely on their experience"
Nope.
The "personal experience" of medical scientists is not reliable.
The "personal experience" of medical practitioners is less reliable.
The "personal experience" of the general public is almost completely unreliable.
And the "personal experience" of AN ANTIVAX LOON is COMPLETELY reliable.
That is why we do SCIENCE!
no. youre practicing a religion. so is paul. I refuse to practice that religion. I find it abhorrent.
the reaction of the public is not always reliable. but sometimes it is and in this case, what I say doesn’t really matter. it is whether or not they trust what paul says when he suggests shoddily made medical products that DOES matter.
no one trusts paul anymore regarding these shoddily made medical products. you don’t have to like it but you will learn to live with it.
ALL vaccine mandates not accepting one. in ANY and ALL setting have to end. there can be no more of them.
It always amused me when a religious freak denigrates science by calling it a religion.
There is NO point of contact between science and religion, you silly thing.
"the reaction of the public is not always reliable. but sometimes it is"
Sometimes?
Wow, great point, son!
"shoddily made medical products"
LIAR.
The mRNA vaccines had been developed over many decades and are the most thoroughly researched and tested vaccines in history.
They underwent phase I, II, and III clinical trials and post marketing surveillance of 5.5 billion doses.
LIAR.
"no one trusts paul anymore"
You don't get to speak for anyone beside yourself and the science illiterate fools you listen to.
And they are a small loud-mouthed minority.
Anyone with any background in medical science does not even need to trust Dr. Paul Offit.
They KNOW that he tells the truth.
"vaccine mandates ... in ANY and ALL setting have to end"
I see you're pissing into the wind again.
Mandates will always be with us because they save lives.
School mandates save the lives of children.
Hospital mandates save the lives of sick patients.
Let's hope no one listens to an arsehole like you who puts his own "personal freedom" above the lives of others.
It's always a tell when their grammar and syntax slip
YOU are practicing the reliugion now. any criticism of your faith invites vitriolic hatred. if you notice I don't do that. I never attack personally. there is no need. I attack your ideas because theyre so easy to dismantle.
and if indeed I'm in the minority then you have nothing to be worried about. something makes me doubt proponents of vaccine mandates and shoddily made pharmaceutical products are as sanguine as you are...
You are practicing scientific fraud.
You just very clever about it.
The only true thing he's said is "no. I'm not clever." That's why he can't discern the simple truth that he's incapable of "dismantling" the facts and the science. That's why he empowers his emotions to give himself permission to believe in delusions and fantasies.
no. I'm not clever. paul named the combat. it was his war he waged on the public.
I have taken so many vaccines I couldn't count them. I never questioned vaccination. My entire family is military. most of the women in my family are nurses. all were proponents of vaccine. all my children and family were vaccinated . flu shots every year.
then the pharmaceutical industry showed us their power. they activated public health authorities on the local level to enforce their policies. anyone with questions was attacked. there is no fraud here. you can call me an "antivaxxer".
I personally, was mocked, ridiculed, attacked, and doxxed. People I considered good friends who have stayed in my home. Ive known them since college. they abandoned me. I cried. I admit it. I longed to hear a kind word. anything to tell me I wasn't the only one with questions. they took my hope away.
I'm coming for mandates and I will have them. they are mine. come hell or high water.
you people just don't know or understand it yet.
Can you link us to any valid data on the vaccines causing large numbers of fatal reactions, Omar?
I don't need to do that. it isn't YOU that needs to be convinced and I havent made any attempts to convince YOU of anything. I don't need to do that.
the problem you have is that your data actually weakens your position. you just can't understand why. I hope no one ever lets you know in a way you can understand. I pray they don't.
I don't want you to understand. I don't want peace with you. I want the war paul and his cadre began. there's no going back. youre getting all of this. my terms are mandates. they all must go. I have them already you just don't know it yet.
No, you can't provide any data to support your absurd lies.
LOOOOOOL!
you don't get it. it's comical. I don't need any data when I'm using YOUR data and information. I only use what paul and people like hotez, vinny racanielloe, heidi larson, stpehen morrison, and katelyn jetelina provide. that's enough to destroy you.
funny how that works.
Still no evidence that they are shoddily made.....you just keep lying and lying and lying...
there is no lie. pharmaceutical industry medical products are shoddily made. that's why they have so many adverse reactions. any kind of injectable pain medication that enlarges your prostate is shoddily made when you can use an older drug with less side effects. LOOOOOOL!
Various substackers like Steve Kirsch, Naiomi Wolf and others have analyzed the VAERS data and arrived that the mRNA jab injured children in (significant) numbers compared to their risk of complications SARS-CoV-2 virus. Healthy children IFRs were tiny compared to the risks associated with the jab. Co-morbidities might change the weight given in the risk/benefit decision. And the FLCCC have published protocols for what works to minimize the SARS-CoV-2 disease experience. To that, SARS-CoV-2 had variants which were more problematic than others. The current Omicron variants most parents see no need for the boosters being offered.
Sorry, I do not have a handy reference to who has published their analysis.
"Steve Kirsch"
WTF?
He is a tech bro, not a scientist.
"Naiomi Wolf "
Naomi, but WTF?
She is a journalist, not a scientist!
"FLCCC"
WTF?
Its founder, Pierre Kory, has his board certification revoked by the American Board of Internal Medicine for spreading disinformation!
They are antivax liars who promoted and sold failed treatments like ivermectin.
"VAERS"
You don't understand VAERS.
You don't understand the difference between adverse EVENTS and adverse EFFECTS.
You don't understand the BASE RATE FALLACY.
"parents see no need for the boosters"
FFS!
Parents are almost all NOT scientists!
"Sorry, I do not have a handy reference to who has published their analysis."
Frankly, dear, that is the least of your failures!
Naomi Wolf is now spreading conspiracy theories.
Live your ignorance.
Yes, you are. Don't kid yourself, kid.
Are you not going to read their references?
Kirsch's gross misrepresentation of the basic facts have been pointed out over and over for years....
LOOOOL! I love hoe people drop names and you begin attacking them. I don't care about any of those people and I don't actually know who they are. although I do know wolf. she was around DC for a while. big name in many circles back in the day.
anyway. none of these names matter. what does matter is that paul is the biggest benefit since wakefield to anyone that wants to destroy mandates and I'm here for it!
You could try reading their sources and see what they really say.
https://vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
Yes, you have made it clear that you just can't understand a graph.
My 10 year old doesnt have a problem understanding that graph of mortality rates before the introduction of vaccines.
Why cant you ?
Then your 10 year old doesn't understand what a vaccine is.
Too bad, I was hoping for regression to the mean for your child.
>i was hoping for regression to the mean for your child
What your language you pervert!!!
Excellent article here Paul, thank you so much, if everyone’s an expert, no one is an expert. I am thankful for expertise in all domains of modern life. I sure hope we can squeak through with this election and stay away from project 2025, otherwise it’s probably time to pack up
Ummm... They really haven't. Maybe in the past but not anymore. They denied that Covid is airborne. They went political when they said vaccinated people don't need to mask, definitely not following the science. And literally one day after Delta's CEO was bitching about the 10 day isolation and wanting that to be cut to 5 days, that's what the CDC did🙁
"They denied that Covid is airborne."
That is a blatant lie.
A respiratory virus that is not airborne?
Are you serious?!
"they said vaccinated people don't need to mask"
That is a complete misrepresentation.
This was said very early in the pandemic when the prevalence of infection was too low to be a significant enough risk to justify wearing of masks by the general public. Also, masks were in short supply and were needed for health care workers who were at risk of close proximity to people with infection.
It was also said very late in the pandemic, when the prevalence of infection has subsided significantly and when population immunity was high as a result of infection and vaccination.
"definitely not following the science"
Yes, they followed the rapidly changing science as closely as possible in a rapidly changing situation.
Lying hound.
"Delta's CEO"
WTF? Who is "Delta's CEO"?
"10 day isolation ... cut to 5 days"
...with mask wearing for another 5 days.
And why? Because the prevalence of infection was significantly reduced, and population immunity was high as a result of infection and immunisation, and death rates were significantly lower because of high levels of immunity in the population and because most of the vulnerable had already died.
These silly clowns forget that nobody understood SARS-CoV-2 for the first month after we knew we were in trouble.
They either focus on the early incorrect speculations that people capable of understanding what was happening were spitballing between themselves
...or they focus on endless repetition of the lies they slurped up from scammers, grifters, and other incompetents whose goal is to take their money while feeding their need for outrage.
Meanwhile, the financially and politically motivated quacks and cranks that they followed incorrectly predicted almost everything and gave advice that put their health and lives at risk - actually helping to end the lives of the 250,000 unvaccinated Americans who died of COVID-19 in 2021.
Indeed they did, and justice may be slow but it is, thankfully, inexorable.
ABIM just de-certified Kory and Marik.
…”a good start.”
🤣🤡🤣
At the rate hes spinning hes going to achieve orbit very soon
🤣
Could you please provide the airborne reference?
Thanks
Here you go.
https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/10/06/1009424/the-cdc-has-finally-acknowledged-that-the-coronavirus-can-be-airborne/
Thanks,
Where is the denial from the CDC?
You're welcome😊 Google it 🤷♀️ That's what I did. I didn't have the URLs for my sources in my memory 🤣
I did.
I didn’t find any denial.
You didn't try very hard🙄
https://time.com/6162065/covid-19-airborne-transmission-confusion/
I don’t see a denial from the CDC there that the virus could spread through the airborne route, just a slowness in admitting that it was commoner than they first postulated.
Of course, if you can actually provide a link to any CDC statement saying that the virus cannot spread via the airborne route, I will accept your own claims on the matter.
I Googled it.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/cdc-backtracks-on-warning-about-airborne-coronavirus-transmission/
"https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/cdc-backtracks-on-warning-about-airborne-coronavirus-transmission/"
Quote from your reference where it supports your assertion that the CDC finally admits the virus is AIRBBORNE.
You can't because it is NOT TRUE.
It IS true that the CDC was too slow in realising the importance of AEROSOLISATION.
It is NOT true that the CDC did not realise that a respiratory virus is AIRBORNE!
Do you even understand the difference?
Google it🤷♀️
I did.
Now you read it!
There are several confusions associated with infection, disease and vaccines.
This was clearly demonstrated in 2020, when the public consciousness here in the U.K. conflated COVID19 (disease) with SARS-CoV-2 (infecting virus). Because of this when the COVID19 vaccines arrived there was an assumption that they prevented infection. Virologists will refer to the poliovirus causing polio, the measles virus causing measles etc.
Having symptoms such as fever, lethargy doesn’t mean that you have the disease, it means you have an infection of unknown origin.
For those interested in how vaccines work then you can do no worse than watch this video lecture https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmejB1aKVGc
Or doctors and research scientists explain how little anyone knows of vaccine contents and efficacy.
https://rumble.com/v1pb9bf-in-their-own-words-doctors-are-not-experts-on-vaccines.html
How sad.....even when the lies are pointed out......you still just can't read the words!
It was a post on Rumble...
Just keep pointing out the lies..Albus.. the lies. Oh my there are so many lies. Again are you the arbitrator of what is a lie and what is the truth? Just stop please. I have never been vaccinated for Covid nor has anyone on my family. I got Covid before vaccines were rolled out, never got it only once..that is the truth. Everyone I know who got vaxxed has had several bouts of Covid, that is the truth. The truth is The Covid vaccine does not stop transmission or infection.
Hey, I keep posting the anti-vacc references.
It is 100% on you if you refuse to use your 3rd grade reading skills and see they lie about ~eveything!
https://rumble.com/v2wy4vz-dr-peter-hoetz-various-moments-contradicting-himself.html
How sad your life is - to equate as lies - facts too uncomfortable for you to digest. Typical flat earther.
I bet you still think the sun revolves around the earth
I put the words in front of your eyes.
Oh, right.......you can't read!
Still shifting goal posts and changing the subject. Typical flat earther provaxxer modus operandi
THIS IS THE ILLITERATE ROMBIOS TALKING:
- "ecplsin"
- "efficasy"
Too funny.
Here we go again. Billy Joe, Albus, Mike S all the arbitrators and know alls of who is illiterate or not, of what is truth and what is lies. They follow the data, the data they believe in, but all other data is lies. What a gift to have such wisdom. What does it feel like? Maybe you can write a Substack on that, of what it feels like to know you are right about everything and everyone else is stupid, illiterate or misinformed and believes in all the lies that the anti-vaxxers, anti -big Pharma, anti-big tech and anti- big government have been telling us. Maybe the people who are too funny are you.. just maybe you can’t discern what are lies from what is truth, maybe just maybe all the truths you believe are lies. But one thing is for certain is that none of you are the arbitrators, you are not the determinators, you are not the ones who can for certain know the truth from lies. I know it’s hard to swallow it. But swallow it. The best evidence we have about the safety and efficacy of the Pfizer COVID vaccine is a phase 3 randomized placebo controlled study.. in over 20 thousand participants. It doesn’t get much closer to the truth than that and what a joke.
"The best evidence we have about the safety and efficacy of the Pfizer COVID vaccine is a phase 3 randomized placebo controlled study"
That is INCORRECT.
Firstly, it is "phase III", not "phase 3".
Secondly, there is what is known as phase IV, which is the post marketing surveillance of (in this case) 5.5 BILLION doses.
After more than 3 years and 5.5 billion doses, the result of the phase III clinical trial does not even matter anymore. Phase IV picked up myocarditis as a rare adverse effect of the vaccine, something which the phase III clinical trial could not possibly have picked up because it was far too underpowered to do so.
You might consider LEARNING SOME SCIENCE before presuming to lecture people on a science-based forum.
They're indistinguishable from the End Times and QAnon cults.
A whole bunch of the people they believe are credible on this subject have been predicting that millions and millions would be dead from the vaccines by now.
Any minute now...
One more time, Kathy:
These are not MY conclusions.
They are the conclusions of the recognised experts in the relevant disciplines of science after collating and evaluating all the evidence that scientists in those relevant disciplines have discovered through their painstaking peer-reviewed research.
I have a many decades-long background in both science and medicine, and in critical thinking, that has enabled me to distinguish science from pseudoscience, and genuine scientists from contrarians, mavericks, quacks and cranks.
You, unfortunately, clearly do not have that background and that has resulted in you being a sad victim of those pseudoscientists, non-scientists, contrarians, mavericks, quacks, and cranks who grift for fame and fortune on social media because they couldn't hack peer-review by their fellow scientists.
THAT is the difference.
Here I go again posting the phase 3 trial:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577
You could read the words and see the anti-vaccs are liars.......but I guess you won't.
Here I go again posting the phase 3 trial:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577
You could read the words and see the anti-vaccs are liars.......but I guess you won't.
What are you mumbling about ? Making things up as you go along right?
Maybe you should invest in both a spell check and a dictionary
Wouldnt expect you to. An uneducated fool who waxes poetic on subjects he hasnt a single book on ...
You are and will remain a joke
Just so it is clear to anyone coming in late, the despicable antivax liar has edited his comment to correct the spelling errors and pretending they never happened.
(You can see that his comment has been designated as "edited").
So, not only a science illiterate nong but a deceitful lying snotty nosed little schoolboy as well.
Your says edited 1:44 AM
So you have edited your stupid mistakes. 🤡
What are you talking about?
Your post here was last edited at 10:40am
Gut the
1) CDC
2) NIH
3) FDA
4) NIADS
Then the healing can begin
Thanks for posting every single "argument" you have!
I live rent free in your head: dont i?
No live fact-free.
That is why you still haven't posted anything rational.
We can do this all day ...
You have been doing this since your first posting........offering not a single rational thought.
GUT ROMBIOS.
THE SCIENCE ILLITERATE ANTIVAX TROLL.
Message me privately for my home address. Id like to see you try!!! Internet keyboard cowboy.
Btw i live in an open carry state.
Obviously you dont respect the 1st amendment.
But with your threats you will find out quickly why we have a 2nd amendment
"Message me privately for my home address. Id like to see you try!!! '
Settle down, little guy. You said "Gut the CDC, NIH, FDA, and NAIAD", so I turned this back on you: "Gut Rombios".
"Btw i live in an open carry state."
The tiny tot carries a big gun! Bigger than him, no doubt! He probably also has a Big Brother with an even bigger gun!
Too funny!
"Obviously you dont respect the 1st amendment."
Obviously, you don't understand it, you silly thing.
"But with your threats you will find out quickly why we have a 2nd amendment"
Hilarious, sonny boy, you don't understand that either.
But what can we expect of a pig-ignorant antivax lunatic.
this is a very violent quote. youre suggesting violence against another person. shame on you!
You silly thing. Read the stupid comment I responded to. Idiot.
I don't agree with Project 2025 but to say that the CDC didn't fail us is an incredible statement. Recommendations which led to toddlers getting masked, school closures, a heavy push for vaccines for those not at risk -- an unelected fiat bureaucracy based on terror -- incredible. I lost so much respect for this once august institution.
Everyone is at risk.
And people that survive unharmed increase the the risk for everyone else.
Do you read what you write before you press "send". In what universe does that word salad make any sense?
You are gonna give Kamala a run for her money on straight gibberish alone
ROMBIOS THE POLITCALLY MOTIVATED, SCIENCE ILLITERATE, ANTIVAX TROL
>ROMBIOS THE POLITCALLY MOTIVATED, SCIENCE ILLITERATE, ANTIVAX TROL
"POLITCALLY"
"TROL"
You uneducated moron. Hasnt read a single book on a subject he daily rants about. Please invest in a spell checker and dictionary next; before you mouth off
So, you cannot distinguish between as spelling error and a typo? Is that what you're saying.
And I see you are STILL lying about what's on my bookshelf.
Stop stalling
Its been over 3 weeks since the challenge. You got nothing because you are; NOTHING
There is a huge list of examples where your sources are proven to be liars.
There just isn't one example where you were able to read or count well enough to see the lies.
Are you trying to convince me or YOURSELF?
Come back when you can read and have read at least 1 book in support of your bullshxt arguments
Its amazing that you havent a single book in your bookshelf on a subject you feel so passionate about
And STILL you don't understand how INCREDIBLY STUPID your demand is, so thanks for illustrating your cognitive impairment over and over again.
As a reminder:
1) When your argument has failed, it is LOGICAL FALLACY to try to bolster it by listing your qualifications or the books you've read.
2) Posting a list of books full of CRAP written by contrarians, quacks, cranks, and fringe dwellers has the OPPOSITE effect to the one you intended.
3) Your opponent listing the books they've read wouldn't matter in the slightest because your argument STILL failed.
The entirety of your arguments are supplied by television and yiur pharma handlers
Talk about self-owning!
Once again you simply prove yourself functionally and scientifically illiterate.
But I suppose you must be trying your best!
Thats called "projection". Look it up
Another self-owning from rombios.
If only you could read better.......seriously, how difficult is this to understand?
"Everyone is at risk."
>Another self-owning from rombios.
Thats called "projection"
Plural, noun
"the unconscious transfer of one's own desires or emotions to another person."
Offit didn’t say the CDC has never failed us, he said that it and its advisory committees had “served us well”. That’s something you clearly agree with pre-Covid.
But you do think that during Covid it has failed us, because you disagree with its stance on NPIs and vaccines.
IMO it has made some mistakes, particularly with its test which turned out to be defective, and its inconsistent stance on masking, and poor communication. But overall it did a pretty good job given the circumstances (a novel pandemic with all the attached unknowns that came with it).
NPIs ARE effective; their implementation was mainly down to whatever stance individual states took (which mainly followed ideological lines, and not the science) Vaccines similarly are effective. The CDC took the view that more is better, and given the risk Covid posed to everyone (even the young, 2000 of whom have died, with tens of thousands more hospitalised and left with chronic sequelae), few rational individuals could disagree. As Offit pointed out, about 2-3 million lives were estimated to have been saved by them, and hundreds of thousands died because they refused to take them.
CDC is a joke. a fully compromised clown of a public health agency whose chairmen suffer conflitcs of interest and leave to join cushy positions at the pharmaceutical giants they are allied with
Translation: you just don't have a rational thought to offer.
From the self proclaimed arbiter of "rational" thought? gfto
Still nothing rational from you.
Still waiting on the list of books that inform your opinion along with picture proof of posession .
ROMBIOS IS A JOKE.
A science illiterate antivax clown.
This; from an idiot who hasnt a single book on a subject he raves about - on a nightly basis.
No intellectual curiousity at all!!!
This drongo is STILL lying about what's on my bookshelf.
I offer you now as before; an opportunity to list the books in your bookshelf and show proof of possession of; the books that inform your opinion on this subject
🤡
I agree about the undesirability of Project 2025 but should point out that Trump has dropped it. It’s no longer part of his platform.
That's pretty naive.
Even for an antivaxxer.
He’s realised how damaging it appears to his chances of election, but if he gets in it will be resurrected before you can say “Jesus”.
🤣🤡🤣
Another opinion.
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/cdc-report-childhood-vaccines-saved-million-lives-outdated-statistics/?utm_id=20240818
Thanks for reminding us that the anti vaccs prey upon folks that can’t do basic math.
The opinion of the antivaccine organisation “Childrens Health Defense” on vaccines is utterly worthless.
Would you accept the opinion of the Flat Earth Society on the science of global circumnavigation?
…..on second thoughts don't answer that, you probably would!
Yeah but it makes sense to take the opinion of vaccine manufacturers who've had to settle legal fraud cases in the tune of $ billions
Yeah, that makes sense
Please post the fraud cases.
Thanks,
https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/features/biggest-pharmaceutical-lawsuits/?cf-view
Thanks for the list of lawsuits/settlements.
Where exactly is there an example of fraud conviction?
Too bad you cant read...
THIS FOOL BELIEVES THESE THREE THINGS:
1) Vaccine manufacturers have paid out $4 billion for adverse effects.
2) Only 10% of new drug applications are actually approved.
3) Pharmaceutical companies have paid out $33 billion in fines.
AND SIMULTANEOUSLY BELIEVES THAT:
4) The government health agencies are under the control of the drug companies.
Now you are literally making up stories. Putting words in my mouth. So lets play that game.
This moron Billy Bob
1. Believes 90% of mortality rates due to childhood illnesses had fallen before the advent of vaccines but that the praise should still go to vaccine manufacturers just because
2. Believes Vaccinated still contract and transmit the very illnesses they were vaccinated against but that doesnt disprove the efficacy narrative put out by vaccine manufacturers
3. Thinks The funded and sponsored studies by pharmaceutical companies (who have received legal judgements and fines in the tune of billions for fraud cases) are completely trustworthy and legitimate
4. Believes he knows more about this subject than "anti vaxxers"; although he hasnt read or owns any books on this subject; even in support of his narrative
I know...because I have done the experiment......that it takes the average 11-year-old ~1 minute to see that ~everything you post is a lie.
Sitting at your moms basement; massaging your scrotum; is not any experiment we would tolerate for debate here
The antivax troll, Rombios, believes that:
1) If you get mortality rates down by 90%, the remaining 10% don't matter.
2) Vaccinations prevent infection but don't reduce transmission.
3) All vaccination studies are done and evaluated by drug companies.
4) That antivaxxers actually know anything about immunology.
Too funny.
Not fraud cases, Rombios, but misconduct, illegal marketing etc.
Justice Department Announces Largest Health Care Fraud Settlement in Its History
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-largest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history
The Justice Dept in America where am.from calls it FRAUD.
I suppose in your shxthole country child abuse is "innocent tickling" and rape is "horsing around"
We dont play that here. Words have meaning
Another opinion?
Why are you interested in "opinions" of random individuals with no expertise when we have the conclusions of the world's recognised experts in the relevant disciplines of science based on an evaluation of ALL the evidence that they and their colleagues have accumulated.
The antivax Childrens Health Defense?
The lying antivax site founded by RFK junior!
Are you kidding me?
Robert F. Kennedy junior?
The most notorious antivax liar in the US!
Are you kidding me?
Brenda Baletti?
She has a PhD in "human geography" and writes about capitalism and politics.
Are you kidding me?
"Recognized Experts" ?
Bwahhaaa.
Paid shills in service to pharmaceutical giants and their public agency allies
Yes, the anti-vacc fraud is predicated on ignorance........and the inability read or count.
You just proved that fact again!
>Yes, the anti-vacc fraud is predicated on ignorance........and the inability read or count.
How many books on this subject (that you are so passionate about) - are you in possession of or have read ?
The unmitigated gall of you to lecture anyone on reading or reasoning skills. Fool
Lots.
But what is relevant is that you can't offer any anti-vacc examples that don't obviously lie.
>Lots
Good, now list those books and provide pictorial proof they are in your posession just as I have done
https://i.postimg.cc/J0W7vdqH/list1.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/5yq9Vq77/finger-flip.jpg
ROMBIOS LIES ABOUT RECOGNISED EXPERTS.
Recognised experts are people who completed their university science degrees with honours, went on gain a doctorate degree in science, did research and wrote up scientific studies, subjected their ideas to their fellow scientists and, eventually, after many decades of doing this as their day job, rose to the top of their scientific specialty as a result of the overwhelming approval of the scientists in their field.
THAT IS A RECOGNISED EXPERT.
Thus that definition include credentialed Doctors and Research scientists who DONT agree with your narrative (of which i have books by many such individuals) or just the ones YOU agree with ?
Except when you post any actual "arguments" from your side......we keep pointing out how to prove to yourself that they are lying.......
Which credentialled doctors and research scientists?
You mean the contrarians and fringe dwellers that infect every field of science and who grift for fame and fortune on social media to convince science illiterate nongs like you because they failed peer-review and were unable to convince their fellow scientists?
TOO FUNNY!
Are we back to this peer reviewed bullshit? Also knowns as "the circle jerk??" You approve my studies and ill approve yours ?
1)
https://pubs.aip.org/physicstoday/online/11674/Wall-Street-Journal-op-ed-Corruption-of-peer
2) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1420798/
3) https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/new-peer-review-why-unbiased-science-now-often-misleading
4) https://www.pacificresearch.org/the-corruption-of-peer-review-is-harming-scientific-credibility/
5) https://www.theguardian.com/science/2011/sep/05/publish-perish-peer-review-science
Very few people except the likes of you believe that the Covid vaccines stops transmission and infection. You can post some small studies until the cows come home, but it has been well established that the Covid vaccine does not stop transmission or infection . How do you explain that most people who are getting Covid are more multi vaccinated.
It is not about belief.
It is just having the integrity to read the words.
"Very few people ... believe that the Covid vaccines stops transmission "
Why do YOU accept what MOST PEOPLE believe about science, considering that most people have no expertise whatsoever in any field of science?
"it has been well established that the Covid vaccine does not stop transmission "'
Why did you post that blatant lie AGAIN?
"How do you explain that most people who are getting Covid are more multi vaccinated."
Because most people are "multi vaccinated".
It seems that logic is not your strong point either.
Kathy these are the same fools that signed up for
The jab
The booster 1
The booster 2
The booster 3
The booster 4
Bivalent cocktail 1
Bivalent cocktail 2
They dont have reasoning skills to bring to bear
And you are the fool that keeps breathing over and over and over......so you are going to stop right?
Why would I stop breathing? Unlike your employers death toxin
https://rumble.com/v20bpjc-safe-and-effective-lie-countdown.html
Breathing IS actually - safe and effective
No surprise.
No matter how many times I provide you with the definition.......you just can't understand such a big word as "toxin"
"a poisonous substance that is a specific product of the metabolic activities of a living organism and is usually very unstable, notably toxic when introduced into the tissues, and typically capable of inducing antibody formation"
Still no toxins in vaccines.
You link is still dishonest, selective quoting predicated on you being too stupid to read.
And naturally, you just can't follow basic logic!
So news reports from main stream media compilation showing vaccine efficasy from purported 100% to 0% is difficult for you to process?
You are a riot.