Sigh, okay Dr Offit I will take this bait. Let’s remember the other side of the aisle is recommending COVID boosters for everyone over 6 months of age with a booster comprised of variants now less than 20% of cases, with no RCT showing the benefits at large or in subgroups, so not sure the “best science” is informing either side. Project 2025 is indeed an independent blue print whose recommendations can be taken or rejected by the next conservative president. I think it is fair to highlight the use of aborted fetal cells in vaccine manufacture, some Americans do not know this. It is fair to show how distressing this is to many Catholic parents. It is our job as physicians to understand patients not judge their choices as Neanderthal. It is fair to ask the FDA and US vaccine industry to provide alternatives for people of faith for whom this is important, if that is possible. Physicians should know where alternatives exist and where they do not, so thank you for that. I don’t judge my patients who refuse blood transfusions or who question vaccines and their origin. I will always educate them on the benefits of the vaccines to their child, their family and the public at large, but the decision has always been theirs.. The FDA and vaccine industry need to listen sensitively to those who seek a religious exemption, at the very least there is a market there.
Fine job of showing you’re a fan of Project 2025. And that you accept its disingenuousness, insofar as you don’t address one iota of Dr Offit’s claims about non-availability of alternatives, the tiny market for alternatives, or the clear Papal statement about Catholics’ ☞obligation☜ to care for their children and their neighbors
As a Conscientious Objector, I’m no stranger to a personal objection to what the greater society wants. But my conscience didn’t absolve me of the obligation 1970s America demanded and I performed 3 (not the required 2) of low-pay national service
I totally understand MANY Catholics are more stringent about their personal dogma than the Pope and that’s to be expected. What’s NOT is that they’ll get the support of demagogues who, since at least Trump’s 2020 assault on the agencies he nominally was charged with managing, have used their hold on conservatives’ ears, to broadcast lies that drown the facts our society needs for us all to make good choices
Your red herrings dragged across a trail of truth is an apparently-intentional part of that shameful assault on us
vaccine mandates are an assault on the public. hotez, paul, heidi larson, stephen morrison, and all the rest of the big name pharmaceutical company sales lieutenants have publicly stated they are at war with the public.
we’re not finished with fauci. keep him on your list. we’ll get him in time. fauchi’s hands are dripping with blood from people murdered in hospitals behind the “standard of care” of shoving ventilators down the throats of people that needed nebulizer treatments that he helped push.
hell may indeed be waiting for fauci but he has debts here first. and we will collect.
Mandates are no more an “assault” on the public than speed limits or regulations that require restaurants to pass food safety inspections
If MAGA and other anti-vaxxers weren't so damned dishonest in claiming that scientists are responsible for public health arms of government trying to control the pandemic, I would admire how successful they have been in stoking rage and confusion. Alas, you ARE corrupting the discourse by defending efforts to take power thru the lies.
Wrong. Vaccines cause severe acute or chronic reactions in well over half the vaxxed population. Even if it were really only one in a million, as they used to say, it’s still the right of every individual to refuse the potential severe damage.
I and everyone I know have used a seat belt every time we get in a car for my entire life. No one that I know has been harmed by it. While everyone in my nuclear family has been severely damaged by vaccines: autism, Asperger’s, paralysis, and bowel disease.
Perhaps you'd like to justify the “severe acute or chronic reactions” you claim, with a statement from a SINGLE entity that provides health care, public health services, or scientific analysis
.
And after you do that, tell us where you found the “right” to refuse participation in a socially-agreed public health measure
.
As I note above, I personally used a right to refuse military service based on personal conscience. But the laws were extremely narrow in who could claim an exemption, what proof I had to give regards my conscience. But I didn't just make up some bullshit claim, claims of “conscience” that reflect simple pig-headedness, and have been abused, then doubly abused by politicians pushing lies to gain power
.
It's a big world but we gotta live together in it. If you have a way to prevent* YOUR contribution to harming somebody else because you personally, as a parent or as a polemicist mean more people are more susceptible to serious & even fatal diseases, that'd be one thing but in the past years of watching COVID and related claims, I see nothing of the sort.
mandates are indeed an attack on the public. they have nothing to do with public health and everythign to do with perpetual markets for shoddily made medical products. we see the results. there's your major issue and why your comment falls flat.
I'm a democrat and I do not care about that so go talk to them. And I'm not saying "scientists are responsible for public health arms of government trying to control the pandemic". you weren't in charge of anything.
you do as you are told. you don't make any decisions. and in fact get vaccinated and when it is time take your booster. that's what you worry about.
the lie here is trying to obfuscate that the pharmaceutical industry showed its true power. you can see it now. entire conferences like CUGH are dedicated to making any attempt at clawing back the veneer they once held. the fact is that it is possible. but it won't happen because of what that veneer will cost today.
so again. you do as you are told. you don't make any decisions other than the ones made for you. so make sure youre vaccinated and get boosted when it is your turn.
Every government sets obligations—eg, taxes, chance of arrest for crimes—on its people. In a democracy, these obligations necessarily follow the will of We The People
With me so far? It’s what we hire govt to do
Now LYING about the consequence of govt actions, and LYING about motivation makes it impossible for citizens to make choices in their own interest
Fr’instance the threats and verbal attacks on Fauci…promoted by MAGA demagogues as if he somehow had the power to write or enforce mandates. All those lies are an assault on democracy
Nobody got everything right about the new virus in 2020 but it was a very self-interested group making up lies for political power…first telling people to be blasé about COVID (so as “not to frighten” us, WTF?), then pushing available but actually-harmful placebos that kept people from getting adequate prevention
∴ QED. Anti-vax and power-mad politicians lied to us, making our job as voters harder
We also have the Bill of Rights, which guarantees certain human rights inherent in every individual. No one can or will restore the severely vaccine-damaged to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. A grave injustice was done to them if they were compelled to submit to it against their will.
Didn’t you hear? Constitutional lawyers On Both Sides HATE the right to privacy argument you’re using
It’s “quaint,” a relic of a bygone era when individuals went off to the woods and never passed their illness to other people (and a quarter of kids died from childhood diseases)
People are injured every day by a clumsy society that allows society privileges such as carrying weapons only suited for mass murder as they please
The question we have known since our Declaration of Independence’s “governments are formed” to advance our common good words, are about tradeoffs—individual freedom versus common welfare
But anti-vaxxers resort to obscenely false claims (eg a billion killed by the vaccines) to show they’re not serious about a balanced discussion, that they’re just with Team MAGA that hates on ALL govt they don’t control
just llike acip doesn't have any power with regard to childhood vaccine mandates IN EVERY STATE.
acip is in fact the pharmaceutical industry manifest inside the federal government. we know what it is from its results and effects on the public.
and to be clear. every government does NOT set obligations or policy. the U.S. government doesnt do this either. I know you don't know this because you just made the claim. the fact is that government isn't hired. individualsd from government are sent to congress to REPRESENT the people that sent them there. your inability to understand government is part of a larger issue.
I don't expect you to understand anything. I also don't expect you to understand how forcing people to consume shoddily made medical products while simultaneously claiming youre 'at war with the public', is an attack on that same public. we know it is an attack. that can be seen.
my job as a voter is quite easy. it is easy to educate yourself on politics and political discourse. it is easy to be involved. what is difficult is finding someone to trust. yet, THAT is the problem. why must we be credulous when it comes to a public figure. I'll pass on that, thank you.
you havent got a clue and I am so thankful for it. with enemies like you, you make my job so much easier. paul and his like consider me a nothing. I will dismantle paul's world. his life's work is mine. I own it. little old me. I come from nowhere. I come from nothing and I tell you I could debate paul on his terms and utterly consume him by his own standards.
One alternative is not getting the vax. Covid has becomr mild enough that that is what the vast majority is choosing now.
I am Catholic, but the current pope simply does not have beliefs with which God agrees. I am responsible for my choices, especially when they conflict with Pope Francis’. I consider each vaccine on the merits. I support giving all children in Gaza the oral Sabin polio vaccine since one boy developed paralytic polio in all four limbs. think it’s insane to oppose it, even though in one in several million cases it can cause paralytic polio. I would, however, let the parents make the decision. I had a myocardial reaction to the Covid booster. We have not gotten any more, nor will we.
This will be the third time we vote for Trump. With Vance, de Santis, Hawley, Tulsy Gabbard, Ramaswami, and Kemp backing him up, that’s a lot of measured wisdom. And he did a great job last time.
not all us democrats are suggesting these shoddily made medical products! some of us on the left want what many other people want. we want to be free of any and all mandates of any kind.
paul doesn't speak for the left. paul speaks for the pharmaceutical industry.
Science is the pursuit for knowledge driven by observation and backed by experimentation and testing to confirm or refute hypotheses.
Offit is foremost among physicians in the US in pursuit of medical and vaccine science, helping establish facts and refute nonsensical claims (which have unfortunately become very prevalent among a large anti science core of US citizens).
no. actually he doesn’t. paul is a pharmaceutical industry popinjay. he’s very effective at destroying whatever he’s a part of. I hope he never retires.
Good luck finding a govt that imposes no rules or obligations on its citizenry. Certainly not any “left” or “democratic” or “social” system *I’m* aware of
We all can—should!—dream of a better world but you ain’t gonna get to one by endorsing Project 2025’s deep lies and authoritarian rule
I just looked at a summary of the provisions of Project 2025 on Wikipedia. I agreed with those I saw. What is it you see as deep lies and authoritarian rule?
I don’t endorse anything. in fact I will be using it to attack many of the ideas contained therein.
what YOU don’t get is that science is not political. doctors should also remain neutral. no one can usually discern my political leanings. there’s a reason for that. but that’s no concern of yours.
the fact is that a government mandating a thing is just fine. mandating shoddily made medical products that:
1. Don’t give sterilizing immunity
2. Don’t stop any infections
3. cause imprinting and in some cases worse disease
cannot be required or mandated in ANY setting. those are just the facts.
but again, you don’t make any decisions. you do what is required of you when it is required of you.
There are no aborted fetal cells in the Covid vaccines. The Fetal cell lines are grown in a laboratory and were started with cells from elective abortions that occurred several decades ago in the 1970s-80s. They are now thousands of generations removed from the original fetal tissue. None of the COVID-19 vaccines use fetal cells derived from recent abortions. As a physician you should know this and it is very concerning if you do not understand the science. Vaccines are the safest and most effective way to prevent disease and it is the responsibility of all healthcare workers to encourage them.
Rational comments will be attacked by the Trolls who seek attention on pro public health Substacks such as the writings of Dr Offit. Just how they derive pleasure from winding up people who care about the wider human health is beyond me; surely more Joy could be had on Truth Social with people of a similar mindset.
But I forget - Joy is now something to hate, as the #KamalaJoy threatens the Orangutan and the Christofascism they long for.
Also all of the antivax comments can easily be traced back to a decade ago when California Removed Religious and Personal exemptions to vaccines. Its all about attacking the California State Legislature and Governors Cabinet members who are allies of Kamala Harris.
That’s not true at all. Anti-vax sentiment began with the smallpox vaccine two hundred years ago because it severely damaged or killed so many, and was very ineffective. It has continued through the history of vaccination. I got involved in 2010, at the time of the global witch hunt of Dr. Wakefield. I knew that he was telling the truth. I knew that my daughter had reacted to vaccines with autism, though not the MMR, even in 2001, I had the sense to refuse that one for my daughter.
Fortunately we don’t have these politically biased problems here in the U.K. as we don’t mandate childhood vaccination. Our problems have arisen because of misinformation coming primarily from people like RFK jr. & Andrew Wakefield.
I think the U.K is a model. not having vaccine mandates would STRENGTHEN vaccines. paradoxically. I have no study to prove this but it is easier to trust something when no one is forcing you to trust it with mandates.
there is a benefit to medical interventions but there are requirements that must be met in order to realize some of these benefits. that's where the safety concerns should be put/addressed/discussed.
the U.K. doesn't do everythign right but they have good policy with regard to vaccines. mandates are not good policy.
You would have to specify what you regard as misinformation. I read Callous Distegard, and Dr. Wakefield describes the background of a number of children. Withon days or weeks of the MMR or, in one case, measles vaccine, child after child developed bowel disease, and a number autism as well. At a time when no one had ever heard of autism. RFK is very intelligent and of noteworthy integrity. He is eager to discuss, even debate, the issues. I pray that he be given a position in which he can require that they be taken seriously.
The original case series was small. It was observations made by the treating doctors. They were surprised that all of them developed bowel disease within a short time of getting the MMR, and many of them developed autism as well. They observed that this was interesting and unexpected, and should be studied further. No argument there. Dr. Wakefield did further study on it, with the results we are all familiar with. Witch hunt, GMC persecution and show trial, Brian Deer sicced on him, excommunication of Dr. Wakefield, Professor Walker-Smith, and Simon Murch as the only doctors who refused to recant and betray the truth. The High Court restoring the licenses of Professor Walker-Smith and Dr. Murch, saying that the GMC had behaved shamefully and unorofessionally.
Dr. Leo Kanner saw the first child in the first autistic cohort in 1938, publishing a paper on them in 1943, in which he coined the term autism. Kanner did not realize it, but all of them had been exposed to mercury, either in the diphtheria vaccine which had had it added as a fungicide in 1932, or from their fathers’ occupational exposure to it in the forestry industry which had just pioneered the use of mercury preparations.
Simple encephalitis caused often by a vaccine reaction has become the usual cause since mercury was removed from most vaccines in the US twenty years ago. Recombivax still had it in 2000.
Dr. Kanner described the now-familiar syndrome, saying that it was new, that if it had existed before, someone would have described it, but no one ever had. Along with his colleagues at Johns Hopkins, he contributed to an anthology on every psychiatric condition in children ever described, but nothing even resembling autism was included. Aside from a few children interned in Bedlam in the early nineteenth century, after having reacted to the smallpox vaccine, autism was never described. Asperger detailed the syndrome named for him about that time in the early ‘40s. Asperger’s is no longer considered to fall within the autism spectrum. It is not nearly as disabling as Kanner’s autism, but in my opinion, it should be included. I screamed for days after my first DPT at three months old, and it caused Asperger’s. My daughter was given the hep-B vaccine at midnight, at 17 hours old. Less than four days later, she started screaming for four days and nights, and the vaccine encephalitis caused autism. Individual variables are at play, such as genetic profile, vaccine given, age of the child when it was given, and others.
Just a word of advice for future writings on "people of faith" --the Pope and Catholic church do not speak for or have authority over all Christians. remember Martin Luther?
Why are regulatory bodies so reluctant to just make all information available if there is nothing to hide. The Privacy excuse is bs, information can be made anonymous very easily. The idea that public health must be forced on everyone because we are all in this together is another bs line, all of these vaccines leak, mRNA shots just highlighted that fact. Also, the fact that public health are not the ones leading the charge on making the chronic health crisis the front page story is telling, there is nothing more important, when pushed they acknowledge it’s a problem, but the discussion on what’s driving it is so taboo you know there are interests that don’t want it discussed.
Don't worry, Dr. Offit. Trump said, "I know nothing about Project 2025.” And of course, he would NEVER lie! I'm sure you'll also be relieved to know he may consider appointing the accomplished scientist/physician Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. to HHS! Oh, wait.....
Thank you. At some point it would be very helpful if your newsletter could address and update the facts on "Religious exemptions." This category should be put to rest once and for all.
Oh, I think not. Who are you to deny people’s relationship with God? God is against crippling children with autism, asthma, and food allergies caused by vaccine damage.
I agree that there is no safe vaccine. But most are very effective. I disagree with routine use of the measles vaccine, but wipe out measles, it did, so that it is very rare in the US now. The diphtheria vaccine wiped out diphtheria, a horrible, very common, and often fatal disease before the vaccine was introduced in the 1920s. The polio vaccine eliminated polio in the US. The Hib vaccine erased Hib disease here and in other countries. It was a universal disease, usually subclinical, but everyone had antibodies to it by six. But many got clinical cases, and many of those were killed or disabled. Previously healthy children, struck down out of the blue. The vaccine causes peanut allergy in one in fifty vaxxed children. You need to consider risks and benefits. But effective they are.
I agree, but it would not have been a bad thing if they had all caught pertussis. IF they had never been vaxxed for it (original antigenic sin), they would then have had many decades of immunity, likely a lifetime. It is only dangerous to newborns less than two or three months old and to some of the immunocompromised. My 8 month old got it after having had three DTaPs, and gave it to me. The booster at 18 months erased her only words and she was diagnosed with autism two months later. Both dangerous and ineffective.
Infectious Diseases and Social ChangeAuthor(s): Edward H. KassSource: The Journal of Infectious Diseases, Vol. 123, No. 1 (Jan., 1971), pp. 110-114Published by: Oxford University Press
President of the Infectious Diseases Society of America stated
First we had accepted some half truths and had stopped searching for the whole truths. The principal half truths were that medical research had stamped out the great killers of the past?tuberculosis, diphtheria, pneu- monia, puerperal sepsis, etc.?and that medical research and our superior system of medical care were major factors in extending life expectancy, thus providing the American people with the high- est level of health available in the world. That these are half truths is known but is perhaps not as well know as it should be. Figure 1, for example, gives the data on deaths from tuberculosis in England and Wales. Similar data have been obtained in every industrialized country and throughout the United States, but these data are cited because they are reliable and begin in 1850. The data on deaths from tubercu- losis show that the mortality rate from this dis- ease has been declining steadily since the middle of the 19th century and has continued to decline in almost linear fashion during the past 100 years
Similar trends in mortality have been reported with respect to diphtheria (figure 2), scarlet fever (figure 3), rheumatic fever, pertussis (figure 4), measles (figure 5), and many others. There are less reliably documented but suggestive similar trends with respect to carcinoma of the cervix, toxemia of pregnancy, stroke, and certain other disorders. This decline in rates of certain dis- orders, correlated roughly with improving so- cioeconomic circumstances, is merely the most important happening in the history of the health of man
I’m not a Trump but it’s fair to point out that he no longer supports it: “They've been told officially, legally, in every way, that we have nothing to do with Project 25,” Trump said. “They know it, but they bring it up anyway. They bring up every single thing that you can bring up. Every one of them was false.”
He never did. He said some time ago that he hadn’t read it (I don’t see how anyone could, it’s very long), but that what he had gleaned of its ideas, he agreed with. I can say the same for myself.
The best course would be for schools to ask for permission from both parents and children at the end of the school year to deliberately give one of the usually mild, formerly universal diseases to students. Measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, and hep A. They would get permanent immunity, a stronger inmune system, and considerable protection from many cancers.
Are you advocating for deliberately infecting children? They may be “usually mild” but you cannot know who is going to be seriously ill. Also, measles can adversely affect the immune system. However, this is how vaccines work.
Yes, I am. As I said, both the children and the parents would have to agree. While a small number could be expected to become seriously ill, that is also true of vaccine damage. Over half of American children now have an allergic or autoimmune disease, which is in nearly every case from a vaccine reaction. Same for autism, same for seizure disorders. When you introduce an antigen into the bloodstream, many people’s immune system reacts by trying to attack and remove the antigen.
These disabling, sometimes fatal, reactions are not rare, but occur in over half of vaxxed children. So a parent’s choice is not as simple as choosing a vacccine so the child is probably protected from getting a vaccine-preventable disease. The risk of a serious vaccine reaction is very high, and must be factored in. I had natural measles at six, chicken pox at seven, natural rubella also as a child. Hep A and pertussis as an adult. In 1962, there were 450 measles deaths a year out of three to four million cases. About half those deaths were in cold, malnourished children in the Deep South. Giving two doses of supplemental vitamin A slashes the rate of serious damage from the disease. I, personally, would have been relieved for my daughter to have gotten natural measles as a schoolchild. She got chickenpox. I would have been grateful for her to have had the opportunity to get the others. She had pertussis at eight months after having received three DTaPs. She had reacted to the hep-B at birth with screaming syndrome for four days and nights, vaccine encephalitis. She was delayed in speech, but saying two words at 18 months, when she got the DTaP booster. It erased her two words, and she didn’t say another word for a year and a half. At 20 months, two months after the booster, she was diagnosed with autism. No one ever discussed risks and risk factors with me. I reacted to my first DPT at three months old with screaming syndrome for several days. Risk factor. She should not have been given any pertussis vaccine, even though a small number of the youngest newborns dies when they get pertussis. She was eight months old when she got it and was never in danger from it.
So yes, give parents the choice. There is no risk-free choice, but over half of vaxxed children react to vaccines with allergies, at the least. I support vaccination for tetanus, diphtheria, polio, and Hib if in daycare. Maybe Prevnar if in daycare. But what other vaccines are worth the immense risk?
Yes, you should have a good idea of who will or will not be one seriously ill. We are not all the same. Truly healthy individuals do not need vaccines to combat viral infections; the only risk they run is harm from the vaccines.
I disagree with that. New viruses are particularly dangerous, as the immune system doesn’t know how to cope with them, having had no experience with it. That’s why native Americans died in very large numbers from viruses which no longer killed an extremely large number of the Old Worlders they infected. And why the reverse occurred. The Europeans picked up syphilus from the native Americans, who took it back to Europe, and it killed horribly and quickly in the initial period.
In the nineteenth century, the biggest childhood killers were measles, pertussis, diphtheria, and scarlet fever. Polio not until 1890 with arsenic in agricultural chemicals. Agreed. But every time is its own. Measles and pertussis became much milder viruses until by 1960 they killed very few. Part was better nourishment, hygiene, and better living conditions, but most was from the natural evolution of the viruses. Scarlet fever the same, although the introduction of antibiotics contributed from the treatment end to reduce deaths.
I’d like to ask you about diphtheria. I agree that the vaccine put an end to its ravages, although it was a dangerous vaccine. Before the vaccine, everyone developed immunity to diphtheria, most through sub-clinical exposure. But tens of thousands of children every year died horribly of it. I have read that diphtheria has been parasitized, resulting in lower mortality, but by no means no mortality. To what extent is that true? Will diphtheria evolve to resist the parasitizatipn?
Off track. What time period are you referring to when you say measles at some time killed one in 2,000 cases? In 1960, it killed 450 a year out of three to four million cases. I just put it into a calculator, saying 3,500,000 cases a year. I got 1.2857142 deaths out of 10,000 cases.
It is true that many factors have degraded children’s health since 1960, an excessive number of vaccines being one of them. First tell me if you are referring to 1980 or 1880.
Olivia was doing well, she had a typical mild case of measles. Her doctor made several house calls and was not at all concerned anout her. She was past the feverish stage. Unfortunately, her mother gave her an aspirin, and it caused Reye’s syndrome and meningitis which caused her death.
No, measles does not kill healthy, well-nourished children past infancy who are not given fever reducers. It did up until about a hundred years ago, but the virus evolved to become much less virulent. By 1960 in the US, it caused three to four million cases a year, the entire birth cohort, but only caused an average of 450 deaths, a tiny fraction of one percent.
1. How to render virus less virulent? You would ideally use a form that doesn’t carry the serious risks of full blown, wild type infection. Answer: Attenuate the virus in the lab so it loses virulence but retains immunogenicity.
2. How to preserve a stock of live virus? Answer: Have a lab/company culture sufficient quantities, keep vials of virus in small quantities suitable to be given to every child to ensure uniformity of dosage.
3. How to safely store virus? Answer: Add tiny quantities of stabilisers and antibacterial/antiseptics to preserve sterility.
I was referring to measles having naturally become much less virulent, not trying to artificially make it so. Many viruses do that, a natural process which favors less virulent strains which are able to be propagated more widely if they don’t quickly kill the host. As occurred with pertussis as well.
I was just thinking that you would be very likely to appear here. I hope you are considering leaving England? Not that the US is doing that great, but it’s still better than there.
The expression “not doing that great” means that it is not doing well. I am the first to recognize that. But speaking strictly comparatively, the US is safer than the UK, and there are many of us who would fight anyone seeking to deprive us of our constitutionally-guaranteed freedom of speech. I was about to say to the death, but probably couldn’t honestly say that. We may see. I would certainly leave Birmingham, or anywhere else in England. I support the English protesting the rampant - crime and prison terms for very ordinary and justified expressions of opinion.
What a tease you are! I will repeat what has become a trope, I would crawl naked over searing coals and broken glass to vote against the Dems. Fortunately, I doubt it will come to that. They should enforce same day, in person voting, we always go in person, but the popularity of —- means that there’s hardly anyone there and we’re in and out in ten minutes, standing sedately in short lines.
Omega4America has searing details about how - plan to - again. I hope that in the necessary case we will insist on matching ballots with legitimate live voters and genuine home addresses, one each.
Of that I am aware, I didn’t go to any, but I caught measles and rubella at some point between the age of 5 and 7. I caught chickenpox aged 8.
The lead singer of the Blockheads, Ian Drury caught polio which left him disabled. Mary Berry, a TV cook in the U.K. also caught polio which has left her with problems with her thumbs. A daughter of the author Roald Dahl died from measles.
This highlights the problem with exposing children to the pathogens rather than vaccination, no one can know the severity of the disease in a particular individual.
Now kindly list all the damages from vaccines ...from paralysis to chronic disorders. From epilepsy to death .
Otherwise you are being disingenuous
Dont play that game of hyping the RARE cases of natural infection that lead to damage or death with people living with already compromised immune systems verses the regular occurance of vaccine damage
Humans survived on this planet for milenia long before the advent of medical science
I can only point you to the following websites, you would need to search for the individual vaccines and find out for yourself the different side effects listed. Note that these are the British National Formulary for children and adults here in the U.K. and are the definitive tomes for all medications here.
I cannot comment on US practices, here in the U.K., if a person has >=60% disability that can be shown to be caused by a vaccination then they are paid a one off sum of £132000 as a government benefit. They can still sue the company for damages.
Because of their individual immune system, the Black Death had a survival rate of approximately 50% - 60% in Europe. Besides Neanderthal DNA, other Homo sapiens from the Turkey region emigrated across Europe, and it is possible that they had some immunity to the plague bacteria.
Nor does one know how likely it is that the patient have a severe vaccine reaction. We were talking about usually mild childhood diseases, not paralytic polio. Olivia Dahl was past the feverish stage and was recovering, but complained of a headache and her mother gave her an aspirin, which caused Reye’s syndrome and meningitis. At that time, 1963, they did not yet know of the dangers of giving aspirin to children.
Olivia Dahl caught measles, developed a mild fever, then convulsions and lethargy. Admitted to Stoke Mandeville hospital in Buckinghamshire U.K. where she later died of encephalitis. She was playing chess with her father the day before she deteriorated.
“ In November 1962, the Dahls learned there had been a measles outbreak at seven-year-old Olivia's school. No measles vaccine was available at the time, so those exposed were likely to catch the easily transmissible virus. However, there was an available treatment: gamma globulin, a blood plasma protein whose antibodies could prevent or lessen the severity of the infection.
In America, gamma globulin was regularly administered to children, but in the United Kingdom, it was usually only given to pregnant women. Dahl's brother-in-law, Ashley Miles, was a prominent U.K. doctor, so Neal reached out to him to try to obtain gamma globulin for the children. However, Miles only provided enough for Theo, who was still recovering from his accident, saying, "Let the girls get measles, it will be good for them."
Olivia soon developed the well-known measles rash. After three days she was well enough to get chess lessons from Dahl, and even beat her father at the game. But on the fourth day of her illness, she was lethargic. When Dahl tried to entertain her, he "noticed that her fingers and her mind were not working together and she couldn’t do anything." Later that day Olivia began having convulsions.” https://www.biography.com/authors-writers/roald-dahl-daughter-measles-death
I’ve had many a discussion with Cia over the years. She’s a fantasist who thinks she knows “more about infections than the CDC and the WHO put together”.
She has invented her own bizarre narrative about Olivia Dahl’s measles illness, to justify her claims no healthy child will die from measles.
No healthy child who is minimally nursed and takes no fever reducers. Taking a fever reducer like aspirin, Tylenol, or Ibuprofen makes several tragic outcomes possible. Taking A prevents several sequelae like eye damage.
You haven’t been keeping up if you think that the CDC and WHO continue to be worthy of any respect.
Are hou going to get the new monkeypox vaccine on top of the many smallpox vaccines you have gotten? We would not, not ever having contact with certain groups.
Yes, we did, but as I told you, I read ten years ago that her mother said she had given her aspirin. You know that I would not insist on this if it were not what I had read. It is not proof, I recognize that, and I told you that I had considered buying Patricia O’ Neal’s autobiography thinking that she might have included it there, but thought that forty dollars on Amazon to be too much to try to prove the point. It might be considered obsessive.
Their doctor made several house calls and was mot in the least concerned about her case. A mild case, past the fever, recovering well. Prove she didn’t take aspirin. I read she did, so that Reye’s syndrome would be consistent with the outcome. You said that Dahl said she suddenly got much worse. He may very well not have been told that Patricia had given her an aspirin, it was such an ordinary thing to do. Find where she was explicitly asked and denied having given her aspirin. I daresay no one at the time would have given it a second thought.
Yes. Everyone I ever knew my age or older had gotten natural measles as a child. Most chickenpox as well. The patients must be well-nursed, give A to measles patients, and then the child recovers with usually permanent immunity, the ability to protect future infants, and protection from many cancers. Having had chickenpox protects against glioma. Every fever from contagious disease as a child which is not reduced, lowers future canncer risk by about 20% each.
We are discussing historical facts and actions not whether or not they were correct or effective.
Leeches and parasites were employed by the medical establishment to threat illnesses in the past. Thats a statement of historical fact not a judgement on its effectiveness
You said several years ago that many parents were eager for their children to get chickenpox so that it wouldn’t ruin a planned holiday. Your daughter got it and had to miss a planned trip to the Lake District. She might have done better to have gone to a chickenpox party.
back after watching the recent twiv episode. to remind paul: YOU ARE NOT ON MY SIDE.
I don't care what political party youre in paul. I don't care what your position is on policy. I don't care if your opinion supports the candidate I like.
you are a pharmaceutical industry salesman. paul you are not a scientist or a doctor. never forget that.
You should watch this from Ryan McBeth. He’s a military and software analyst and thrives on identifying and going after misinformation. He shredded the 2025 document by reading it all. Might find interesting. https://youtu.be/vf4BJZW9pY4?si=aosbK8Vr53PmR8fl
Sigh, okay Dr Offit I will take this bait. Let’s remember the other side of the aisle is recommending COVID boosters for everyone over 6 months of age with a booster comprised of variants now less than 20% of cases, with no RCT showing the benefits at large or in subgroups, so not sure the “best science” is informing either side. Project 2025 is indeed an independent blue print whose recommendations can be taken or rejected by the next conservative president. I think it is fair to highlight the use of aborted fetal cells in vaccine manufacture, some Americans do not know this. It is fair to show how distressing this is to many Catholic parents. It is our job as physicians to understand patients not judge their choices as Neanderthal. It is fair to ask the FDA and US vaccine industry to provide alternatives for people of faith for whom this is important, if that is possible. Physicians should know where alternatives exist and where they do not, so thank you for that. I don’t judge my patients who refuse blood transfusions or who question vaccines and their origin. I will always educate them on the benefits of the vaccines to their child, their family and the public at large, but the decision has always been theirs.. The FDA and vaccine industry need to listen sensitively to those who seek a religious exemption, at the very least there is a market there.
Fine job of showing you’re a fan of Project 2025. And that you accept its disingenuousness, insofar as you don’t address one iota of Dr Offit’s claims about non-availability of alternatives, the tiny market for alternatives, or the clear Papal statement about Catholics’ ☞obligation☜ to care for their children and their neighbors
As a Conscientious Objector, I’m no stranger to a personal objection to what the greater society wants. But my conscience didn’t absolve me of the obligation 1970s America demanded and I performed 3 (not the required 2) of low-pay national service
I totally understand MANY Catholics are more stringent about their personal dogma than the Pope and that’s to be expected. What’s NOT is that they’ll get the support of demagogues who, since at least Trump’s 2020 assault on the agencies he nominally was charged with managing, have used their hold on conservatives’ ears, to broadcast lies that drown the facts our society needs for us all to make good choices
Your red herrings dragged across a trail of truth is an apparently-intentional part of that shameful assault on us
Shameful assault on YOU? how is not supporting mandated vaccines an assault on YOU, and not a entirely ethical stance protecting bodily autonomy?
I put it that it is people like you and Offit who are the ones who wish to assault others through coerced medical procedures.
vaccine mandates are an assault on the public. hotez, paul, heidi larson, stephen morrison, and all the rest of the big name pharmaceutical company sales lieutenants have publicly stated they are at war with the public.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=v3TBAhmkDBzlMJXJ&v=XMTYBPqIM-I&feature=youtu.be
Theres a cold hell waiting for the likes of Fauchi
oh. brother!
we’re not finished with fauci. keep him on your list. we’ll get him in time. fauchi’s hands are dripping with blood from people murdered in hospitals behind the “standard of care” of shoving ventilators down the throats of people that needed nebulizer treatments that he helped push.
hell may indeed be waiting for fauci but he has debts here first. and we will collect.
Mandates are no more an “assault” on the public than speed limits or regulations that require restaurants to pass food safety inspections
If MAGA and other anti-vaxxers weren't so damned dishonest in claiming that scientists are responsible for public health arms of government trying to control the pandemic, I would admire how successful they have been in stoking rage and confusion. Alas, you ARE corrupting the discourse by defending efforts to take power thru the lies.
Wrong. Vaccines cause severe acute or chronic reactions in well over half the vaxxed population. Even if it were really only one in a million, as they used to say, it’s still the right of every individual to refuse the potential severe damage.
I and everyone I know have used a seat belt every time we get in a car for my entire life. No one that I know has been harmed by it. While everyone in my nuclear family has been severely damaged by vaccines: autism, Asperger’s, paralysis, and bowel disease.
Perhaps you'd like to justify the “severe acute or chronic reactions” you claim, with a statement from a SINGLE entity that provides health care, public health services, or scientific analysis
.
And after you do that, tell us where you found the “right” to refuse participation in a socially-agreed public health measure
.
As I note above, I personally used a right to refuse military service based on personal conscience. But the laws were extremely narrow in who could claim an exemption, what proof I had to give regards my conscience. But I didn't just make up some bullshit claim, claims of “conscience” that reflect simple pig-headedness, and have been abused, then doubly abused by politicians pushing lies to gain power
.
It's a big world but we gotta live together in it. If you have a way to prevent* YOUR contribution to harming somebody else because you personally, as a parent or as a polemicist mean more people are more susceptible to serious & even fatal diseases, that'd be one thing but in the past years of watching COVID and related claims, I see nothing of the sort.
mandates are indeed an attack on the public. they have nothing to do with public health and everythign to do with perpetual markets for shoddily made medical products. we see the results. there's your major issue and why your comment falls flat.
I'm a democrat and I do not care about that so go talk to them. And I'm not saying "scientists are responsible for public health arms of government trying to control the pandemic". you weren't in charge of anything.
you do as you are told. you don't make any decisions. and in fact get vaccinated and when it is time take your booster. that's what you worry about.
the lie here is trying to obfuscate that the pharmaceutical industry showed its true power. you can see it now. entire conferences like CUGH are dedicated to making any attempt at clawing back the veneer they once held. the fact is that it is possible. but it won't happen because of what that veneer will cost today.
so again. you do as you are told. you don't make any decisions other than the ones made for you. so make sure youre vaccinated and get boosted when it is your turn.
thanks.
Every government sets obligations—eg, taxes, chance of arrest for crimes—on its people. In a democracy, these obligations necessarily follow the will of We The People
With me so far? It’s what we hire govt to do
Now LYING about the consequence of govt actions, and LYING about motivation makes it impossible for citizens to make choices in their own interest
Fr’instance the threats and verbal attacks on Fauci…promoted by MAGA demagogues as if he somehow had the power to write or enforce mandates. All those lies are an assault on democracy
Nobody got everything right about the new virus in 2020 but it was a very self-interested group making up lies for political power…first telling people to be blasé about COVID (so as “not to frighten” us, WTF?), then pushing available but actually-harmful placebos that kept people from getting adequate prevention
∴ QED. Anti-vax and power-mad politicians lied to us, making our job as voters harder
We also have the Bill of Rights, which guarantees certain human rights inherent in every individual. No one can or will restore the severely vaccine-damaged to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. A grave injustice was done to them if they were compelled to submit to it against their will.
Didn’t you hear? Constitutional lawyers On Both Sides HATE the right to privacy argument you’re using
It’s “quaint,” a relic of a bygone era when individuals went off to the woods and never passed their illness to other people (and a quarter of kids died from childhood diseases)
People are injured every day by a clumsy society that allows society privileges such as carrying weapons only suited for mass murder as they please
The question we have known since our Declaration of Independence’s “governments are formed” to advance our common good words, are about tradeoffs—individual freedom versus common welfare
But anti-vaxxers resort to obscenely false claims (eg a billion killed by the vaccines) to show they’re not serious about a balanced discussion, that they’re just with Team MAGA that hates on ALL govt they don’t control
just llike acip doesn't have any power with regard to childhood vaccine mandates IN EVERY STATE.
acip is in fact the pharmaceutical industry manifest inside the federal government. we know what it is from its results and effects on the public.
and to be clear. every government does NOT set obligations or policy. the U.S. government doesnt do this either. I know you don't know this because you just made the claim. the fact is that government isn't hired. individualsd from government are sent to congress to REPRESENT the people that sent them there. your inability to understand government is part of a larger issue.
I don't expect you to understand anything. I also don't expect you to understand how forcing people to consume shoddily made medical products while simultaneously claiming youre 'at war with the public', is an attack on that same public. we know it is an attack. that can be seen.
my job as a voter is quite easy. it is easy to educate yourself on politics and political discourse. it is easy to be involved. what is difficult is finding someone to trust. yet, THAT is the problem. why must we be credulous when it comes to a public figure. I'll pass on that, thank you.
you havent got a clue and I am so thankful for it. with enemies like you, you make my job so much easier. paul and his like consider me a nothing. I will dismantle paul's world. his life's work is mine. I own it. little old me. I come from nowhere. I come from nothing and I tell you I could debate paul on his terms and utterly consume him by his own standards.
One alternative is not getting the vax. Covid has becomr mild enough that that is what the vast majority is choosing now.
I am Catholic, but the current pope simply does not have beliefs with which God agrees. I am responsible for my choices, especially when they conflict with Pope Francis’. I consider each vaccine on the merits. I support giving all children in Gaza the oral Sabin polio vaccine since one boy developed paralytic polio in all four limbs. think it’s insane to oppose it, even though in one in several million cases it can cause paralytic polio. I would, however, let the parents make the decision. I had a myocardial reaction to the Covid booster. We have not gotten any more, nor will we.
This will be the third time we vote for Trump. With Vance, de Santis, Hawley, Tulsy Gabbard, Ramaswami, and Kemp backing him up, that’s a lot of measured wisdom. And he did a great job last time.
“measured wisdom”?
That circus of clowns?
😂🤣😂
not all us democrats are suggesting these shoddily made medical products! some of us on the left want what many other people want. we want to be free of any and all mandates of any kind.
paul doesn't speak for the left. paul speaks for the pharmaceutical industry.
Offit speaks for science.
Could you define Science and how you can guarantee that anyone can speak for it?
Science is the pursuit for knowledge driven by observation and backed by experimentation and testing to confirm or refute hypotheses.
Offit is foremost among physicians in the US in pursuit of medical and vaccine science, helping establish facts and refute nonsensical claims (which have unfortunately become very prevalent among a large anti science core of US citizens).
this "iam the science" bullshit. if he didnt learn from that deranged lunatic Fauchis ecperience; he will never learn
no. actually he doesn’t. paul is a pharmaceutical industry popinjay. he’s very effective at destroying whatever he’s a part of. I hope he never retires.
I hope he never retires too.
I agree. he is the BEST walking, talking, anti-vaxxine advertisement on the planet.
I’m sure his antivax value is dwarfed by your own value as a useful idiot enabling the pro science, provaccine cause, Omar.
…Perhaps only rivalled by the contributions of Rombios, that is.
Good luck finding a govt that imposes no rules or obligations on its citizenry. Certainly not any “left” or “democratic” or “social” system *I’m* aware of
We all can—should!—dream of a better world but you ain’t gonna get to one by endorsing Project 2025’s deep lies and authoritarian rule
I just looked at a summary of the provisions of Project 2025 on Wikipedia. I agreed with those I saw. What is it you see as deep lies and authoritarian rule?
I don’t endorse anything. in fact I will be using it to attack many of the ideas contained therein.
what YOU don’t get is that science is not political. doctors should also remain neutral. no one can usually discern my political leanings. there’s a reason for that. but that’s no concern of yours.
the fact is that a government mandating a thing is just fine. mandating shoddily made medical products that:
1. Don’t give sterilizing immunity
2. Don’t stop any infections
3. cause imprinting and in some cases worse disease
cannot be required or mandated in ANY setting. those are just the facts.
but again, you don’t make any decisions. you do what is required of you when it is required of you.
There are no aborted fetal cells in the Covid vaccines. The Fetal cell lines are grown in a laboratory and were started with cells from elective abortions that occurred several decades ago in the 1970s-80s. They are now thousands of generations removed from the original fetal tissue. None of the COVID-19 vaccines use fetal cells derived from recent abortions. As a physician you should know this and it is very concerning if you do not understand the science. Vaccines are the safest and most effective way to prevent disease and it is the responsibility of all healthcare workers to encourage them.
Rational comments will be attacked by the Trolls who seek attention on pro public health Substacks such as the writings of Dr Offit. Just how they derive pleasure from winding up people who care about the wider human health is beyond me; surely more Joy could be had on Truth Social with people of a similar mindset.
But I forget - Joy is now something to hate, as the #KamalaJoy threatens the Orangutan and the Christofascism they long for.
Also all of the antivax comments can easily be traced back to a decade ago when California Removed Religious and Personal exemptions to vaccines. Its all about attacking the California State Legislature and Governors Cabinet members who are allies of Kamala Harris.
That’s not true at all. Anti-vax sentiment began with the smallpox vaccine two hundred years ago because it severely damaged or killed so many, and was very ineffective. It has continued through the history of vaccination. I got involved in 2010, at the time of the global witch hunt of Dr. Wakefield. I knew that he was telling the truth. I knew that my daughter had reacted to vaccines with autism, though not the MMR, even in 2001, I had the sense to refuse that one for my daughter.
Wakefield was telling the truth?
🤪🤣
Fortunately we don’t have these politically biased problems here in the U.K. as we don’t mandate childhood vaccination. Our problems have arisen because of misinformation coming primarily from people like RFK jr. & Andrew Wakefield.
I think the U.K is a model. not having vaccine mandates would STRENGTHEN vaccines. paradoxically. I have no study to prove this but it is easier to trust something when no one is forcing you to trust it with mandates.
there is a benefit to medical interventions but there are requirements that must be met in order to realize some of these benefits. that's where the safety concerns should be put/addressed/discussed.
the U.K. doesn't do everythign right but they have good policy with regard to vaccines. mandates are not good policy.
You would have to specify what you regard as misinformation. I read Callous Distegard, and Dr. Wakefield describes the background of a number of children. Withon days or weeks of the MMR or, in one case, measles vaccine, child after child developed bowel disease, and a number autism as well. At a time when no one had ever heard of autism. RFK is very intelligent and of noteworthy integrity. He is eager to discuss, even debate, the issues. I pray that he be given a position in which he can require that they be taken seriously.
The number of children was small. His methodology was flawed. He was struck off the GMC register. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_MMR_autism_fraud
He linked MMR to colitis and colitis to autism, which no one else has found.
Autism has been recognised as a condition since 1908, with formal recognition in 1978.
The original case series was small. It was observations made by the treating doctors. They were surprised that all of them developed bowel disease within a short time of getting the MMR, and many of them developed autism as well. They observed that this was interesting and unexpected, and should be studied further. No argument there. Dr. Wakefield did further study on it, with the results we are all familiar with. Witch hunt, GMC persecution and show trial, Brian Deer sicced on him, excommunication of Dr. Wakefield, Professor Walker-Smith, and Simon Murch as the only doctors who refused to recant and betray the truth. The High Court restoring the licenses of Professor Walker-Smith and Dr. Murch, saying that the GMC had behaved shamefully and unorofessionally.
https://healthy.net/2006/07/02/experts-concur-that-mmr-is-linked-to-bowel-disease/
Dr. Leo Kanner saw the first child in the first autistic cohort in 1938, publishing a paper on them in 1943, in which he coined the term autism. Kanner did not realize it, but all of them had been exposed to mercury, either in the diphtheria vaccine which had had it added as a fungicide in 1932, or from their fathers’ occupational exposure to it in the forestry industry which had just pioneered the use of mercury preparations.
Simple encephalitis caused often by a vaccine reaction has become the usual cause since mercury was removed from most vaccines in the US twenty years ago. Recombivax still had it in 2000.
Dr. Kanner described the now-familiar syndrome, saying that it was new, that if it had existed before, someone would have described it, but no one ever had. Along with his colleagues at Johns Hopkins, he contributed to an anthology on every psychiatric condition in children ever described, but nothing even resembling autism was included. Aside from a few children interned in Bedlam in the early nineteenth century, after having reacted to the smallpox vaccine, autism was never described. Asperger detailed the syndrome named for him about that time in the early ‘40s. Asperger’s is no longer considered to fall within the autism spectrum. It is not nearly as disabling as Kanner’s autism, but in my opinion, it should be included. I screamed for days after my first DPT at three months old, and it caused Asperger’s. My daughter was given the hep-B vaccine at midnight, at 17 hours old. Less than four days later, she started screaming for four days and nights, and the vaccine encephalitis caused autism. Individual variables are at play, such as genetic profile, vaccine given, age of the child when it was given, and others.
There’s no longer a diagnosis of Asperger’s syndrome, it now falls into the ASD https://www.healthline.com/health/asperger-syndrome
https://www.psychiatry.org/psychiatrists/practice/dsm
I disagree with your suggestion RFKjr mis informs ... Children's Health Defense have doctors and medical researchers on their staff.
But it's nice to know childhood vaccinations aren't mandatory in the UK
Makes you wonder why they are here ... Although my kids are t vaccinated. Where it not for religious exemption I'd have them home schooled
Your statement doesn’t make sense… what’s stopping you home school? What country are you in?
Nothing is stopping me from home school. I chose public school because my tax dollars fund it. My kids attend on a religious exemption.
If that didnt exist i would home school them
I live in America
Just a word of advice for future writings on "people of faith" --the Pope and Catholic church do not speak for or have authority over all Christians. remember Martin Luther?
Why are regulatory bodies so reluctant to just make all information available if there is nothing to hide. The Privacy excuse is bs, information can be made anonymous very easily. The idea that public health must be forced on everyone because we are all in this together is another bs line, all of these vaccines leak, mRNA shots just highlighted that fact. Also, the fact that public health are not the ones leading the charge on making the chronic health crisis the front page story is telling, there is nothing more important, when pushed they acknowledge it’s a problem, but the discussion on what’s driving it is so taboo you know there are interests that don’t want it discussed.
FDA wanted to withhold CONvid data that advised their EUA for 50+ years until a judge intervened
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/health-law-and-business/why-a-judge-ordered-fda-to-release-covid-19-vaccine-data-pronto
Don't worry, Dr. Offit. Trump said, "I know nothing about Project 2025.” And of course, he would NEVER lie! I'm sure you'll also be relieved to know he may consider appointing the accomplished scientist/physician Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. to HHS! Oh, wait.....
Trump does not endorse Project 2025. JUST STOP THE LYING! Insufferable LIARS!
One of your best.
Great information
Thank you. At some point it would be very helpful if your newsletter could address and update the facts on "Religious exemptions." This category should be put to rest once and for all.
As soon as you get rid of mandates.
Oh, I think not. Who are you to deny people’s relationship with God? God is against crippling children with autism, asthma, and food allergies caused by vaccine damage.
First there is no such thing as a safe and effective vaccine:
https://vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
Second, see first
I agree that there is no safe vaccine. But most are very effective. I disagree with routine use of the measles vaccine, but wipe out measles, it did, so that it is very rare in the US now. The diphtheria vaccine wiped out diphtheria, a horrible, very common, and often fatal disease before the vaccine was introduced in the 1920s. The polio vaccine eliminated polio in the US. The Hib vaccine erased Hib disease here and in other countries. It was a universal disease, usually subclinical, but everyone had antibodies to it by six. But many got clinical cases, and many of those were killed or disabled. Previously healthy children, struck down out of the blue. The vaccine causes peanut allergy in one in fifty vaxxed children. You need to consider risks and benefits. But effective they are.
Although the pertussis, flu, and Covid vaccines are both dangerous and often ineffective.
# Harvard-Westlake students were vaccinated. Dozens caught whooping cough anyway
https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-ln-whooping-cough-vaccine-20190316-story.html
Dozens caught it, but thousands would have caught it if they were all unvaccinated.
You forgot that part.
I agree, but it would not have been a bad thing if they had all caught pertussis. IF they had never been vaxxed for it (original antigenic sin), they would then have had many decades of immunity, likely a lifetime. It is only dangerous to newborns less than two or three months old and to some of the immunocompromised. My 8 month old got it after having had three DTaPs, and gave it to me. The booster at 18 months erased her only words and she was diagnosed with autism two months later. Both dangerous and ineffective.
They ONLY ones who caught it were the ones who were VACCINATED
in fact the article points out:
------
Eighteen students there have not been vaccinated against pertussis, but none of them has caught the illness, school spokesman Ari Engelberg said.
---------
None of the unvaccinated kids caught it!!! Imagine that
Everyone was vaccinated. Only a tiny percentage caught the disease.
If they had been unvaccinated, all of them would have caught it.
Base Rate fallacy. look it up.
Both?
None of this had ANYTHING to do with Vaccines
http://vaccinesafetycommission.org/pdfs/Kass%201971.pdf
Infectious Diseases and Social ChangeAuthor(s): Edward H. KassSource: The Journal of Infectious Diseases, Vol. 123, No. 1 (Jan., 1971), pp. 110-114Published by: Oxford University Press
President of the Infectious Diseases Society of America stated
First we had accepted some half truths and had stopped searching for the whole truths. The principal half truths were that medical research had stamped out the great killers of the past?tuberculosis, diphtheria, pneu- monia, puerperal sepsis, etc.?and that medical research and our superior system of medical care were major factors in extending life expectancy, thus providing the American people with the high- est level of health available in the world. That these are half truths is known but is perhaps not as well know as it should be. Figure 1, for example, gives the data on deaths from tuberculosis in England and Wales. Similar data have been obtained in every industrialized country and throughout the United States, but these data are cited because they are reliable and begin in 1850. The data on deaths from tubercu- losis show that the mortality rate from this dis- ease has been declining steadily since the middle of the 19th century and has continued to decline in almost linear fashion during the past 100 years
Similar trends in mortality have been reported with respect to diphtheria (figure 2), scarlet fever (figure 3), rheumatic fever, pertussis (figure 4), measles (figure 5), and many others. There are less reliably documented but suggestive similar trends with respect to carcinoma of the cervix, toxemia of pregnancy, stroke, and certain other disorders. This decline in rates of certain dis- orders, correlated roughly with improving so- cioeconomic circumstances, is merely the most important happening in the history of the health of man
Except that now the majority suffers from chronic allergic or autoimmune disease or a neurological disease, iatrogenic diseases.
I’m not a Trump but it’s fair to point out that he no longer supports it: “They've been told officially, legally, in every way, that we have nothing to do with Project 25,” Trump said. “They know it, but they bring it up anyway. They bring up every single thing that you can bring up. Every one of them was false.”
https://www.npr.org/2024/08/22/g-s1-19202/trump-project-2025-border-immigration
He never did. He said some time ago that he hadn’t read it (I don’t see how anyone could, it’s very long), but that what he had gleaned of its ideas, he agreed with. I can say the same for myself.
The best course would be for schools to ask for permission from both parents and children at the end of the school year to deliberately give one of the usually mild, formerly universal diseases to students. Measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, and hep A. They would get permanent immunity, a stronger inmune system, and considerable protection from many cancers.
Are you advocating for deliberately infecting children? They may be “usually mild” but you cannot know who is going to be seriously ill. Also, measles can adversely affect the immune system. However, this is how vaccines work.
Yes, I am. As I said, both the children and the parents would have to agree. While a small number could be expected to become seriously ill, that is also true of vaccine damage. Over half of American children now have an allergic or autoimmune disease, which is in nearly every case from a vaccine reaction. Same for autism, same for seizure disorders. When you introduce an antigen into the bloodstream, many people’s immune system reacts by trying to attack and remove the antigen.
These disabling, sometimes fatal, reactions are not rare, but occur in over half of vaxxed children. So a parent’s choice is not as simple as choosing a vacccine so the child is probably protected from getting a vaccine-preventable disease. The risk of a serious vaccine reaction is very high, and must be factored in. I had natural measles at six, chicken pox at seven, natural rubella also as a child. Hep A and pertussis as an adult. In 1962, there were 450 measles deaths a year out of three to four million cases. About half those deaths were in cold, malnourished children in the Deep South. Giving two doses of supplemental vitamin A slashes the rate of serious damage from the disease. I, personally, would have been relieved for my daughter to have gotten natural measles as a schoolchild. She got chickenpox. I would have been grateful for her to have had the opportunity to get the others. She had pertussis at eight months after having received three DTaPs. She had reacted to the hep-B at birth with screaming syndrome for four days and nights, vaccine encephalitis. She was delayed in speech, but saying two words at 18 months, when she got the DTaP booster. It erased her two words, and she didn’t say another word for a year and a half. At 20 months, two months after the booster, she was diagnosed with autism. No one ever discussed risks and risk factors with me. I reacted to my first DPT at three months old with screaming syndrome for several days. Risk factor. She should not have been given any pertussis vaccine, even though a small number of the youngest newborns dies when they get pertussis. She was eight months old when she got it and was never in danger from it.
So yes, give parents the choice. There is no risk-free choice, but over half of vaxxed children react to vaccines with allergies, at the least. I support vaccination for tetanus, diphtheria, polio, and Hib if in daycare. Maybe Prevnar if in daycare. But what other vaccines are worth the immense risk?
https://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
Vaccines are useless in the BEST case
Yes, you should have a good idea of who will or will not be one seriously ill. We are not all the same. Truly healthy individuals do not need vaccines to combat viral infections; the only risk they run is harm from the vaccines.
I disagree with that. New viruses are particularly dangerous, as the immune system doesn’t know how to cope with them, having had no experience with it. That’s why native Americans died in very large numbers from viruses which no longer killed an extremely large number of the Old Worlders they infected. And why the reverse occurred. The Europeans picked up syphilus from the native Americans, who took it back to Europe, and it killed horribly and quickly in the initial period.
Unfortunately measles kills healthy as well as “unhealthy” children. Hence vaccines.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/chronic-illness-chart.png
No it does not kill healthy children
https://vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
Vaccines are ALL useless in the BEST case and deadly in the worst
It kills healthy children. Olivia Dahl is just one example.
In continents like Africa, measles used to kill tens of thousands of kids. Most of them were healthy.
And even in Western countries the death toll was high (one in about 2000 cases)
No thats a lie.
I was born in Nigeria in the 70s. Contracted measels as a young lad living in a close nit village.
Neither of my parents were the least bit worried because
1) measles was common in our village at that time
2) mild to healthy children
3) something kids suffered through ONCE in their life. A rite of passage
Its not the boogeyman you think it is. Not in developing countries ...
They key to dealing with ALL these childhood illnesses is a healthy child (good food, clean water, lots of rest).
Its all part and parcel of building a functional immune system - its like a muscle that needs to be exercised
In the nineteenth century, the biggest childhood killers were measles, pertussis, diphtheria, and scarlet fever. Polio not until 1890 with arsenic in agricultural chemicals. Agreed. But every time is its own. Measles and pertussis became much milder viruses until by 1960 they killed very few. Part was better nourishment, hygiene, and better living conditions, but most was from the natural evolution of the viruses. Scarlet fever the same, although the introduction of antibiotics contributed from the treatment end to reduce deaths.
I’d like to ask you about diphtheria. I agree that the vaccine put an end to its ravages, although it was a dangerous vaccine. Before the vaccine, everyone developed immunity to diphtheria, most through sub-clinical exposure. But tens of thousands of children every year died horribly of it. I have read that diphtheria has been parasitized, resulting in lower mortality, but by no means no mortality. To what extent is that true? Will diphtheria evolve to resist the parasitizatipn?
Off track. What time period are you referring to when you say measles at some time killed one in 2,000 cases? In 1960, it killed 450 a year out of three to four million cases. I just put it into a calculator, saying 3,500,000 cases a year. I got 1.2857142 deaths out of 10,000 cases.
It is true that many factors have degraded children’s health since 1960, an excessive number of vaccines being one of them. First tell me if you are referring to 1980 or 1880.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/chronic-illness-chart.png
Olivia was doing well, she had a typical mild case of measles. Her doctor made several house calls and was not at all concerned anout her. She was past the feverish stage. Unfortunately, her mother gave her an aspirin, and it caused Reye’s syndrome and meningitis which caused her death.
No, measles does not kill healthy, well-nourished children past infancy who are not given fever reducers. It did up until about a hundred years ago, but the virus evolved to become much less virulent. By 1960 in the US, it caused three to four million cases a year, the entire birth cohort, but only caused an average of 450 deaths, a tiny fraction of one percent.
Ridiculous. But consider this, Cia…
1. How to render virus less virulent? You would ideally use a form that doesn’t carry the serious risks of full blown, wild type infection. Answer: Attenuate the virus in the lab so it loses virulence but retains immunogenicity.
2. How to preserve a stock of live virus? Answer: Have a lab/company culture sufficient quantities, keep vials of virus in small quantities suitable to be given to every child to ensure uniformity of dosage.
3. How to safely store virus? Answer: Add tiny quantities of stabilisers and antibacterial/antiseptics to preserve sterility.
4. Then what are you left with?
Answer: A VACCINE!!!!
Congratulations!!!!!
👏👏👏🎉🍾
Oh, I get it, Mike S.! Hi!
I was referring to measles having naturally become much less virulent, not trying to artificially make it so. Many viruses do that, a natural process which favors less virulent strains which are able to be propagated more widely if they don’t quickly kill the host. As occurred with pertussis as well.
I was just thinking that you would be very likely to appear here. I hope you are considering leaving England? Not that the US is doing that great, but it’s still better than there.
So the US is doing great?
More reasons to vote Dem I guess…
The expression “not doing that great” means that it is not doing well. I am the first to recognize that. But speaking strictly comparatively, the US is safer than the UK, and there are many of us who would fight anyone seeking to deprive us of our constitutionally-guaranteed freedom of speech. I was about to say to the death, but probably couldn’t honestly say that. We may see. I would certainly leave Birmingham, or anywhere else in England. I support the English protesting the rampant - crime and prison terms for very ordinary and justified expressions of opinion.
What a tease you are! I will repeat what has become a trope, I would crawl naked over searing coals and broken glass to vote against the Dems. Fortunately, I doubt it will come to that. They should enforce same day, in person voting, we always go in person, but the popularity of —- means that there’s hardly anyone there and we’re in and out in ten minutes, standing sedately in short lines.
Omega4America has searing details about how - plan to - again. I hope that in the necessary case we will insist on matching ballots with legitimate live voters and genuine home addresses, one each.
There were measles and chicken pox parties during the last century
Of that I am aware, I didn’t go to any, but I caught measles and rubella at some point between the age of 5 and 7. I caught chickenpox aged 8.
The lead singer of the Blockheads, Ian Drury caught polio which left him disabled. Mary Berry, a TV cook in the U.K. also caught polio which has left her with problems with her thumbs. A daughter of the author Roald Dahl died from measles.
This highlights the problem with exposing children to the pathogens rather than vaccination, no one can know the severity of the disease in a particular individual.
Now kindly list all the damages from vaccines ...from paralysis to chronic disorders. From epilepsy to death .
Otherwise you are being disingenuous
Dont play that game of hyping the RARE cases of natural infection that lead to damage or death with people living with already compromised immune systems verses the regular occurance of vaccine damage
Humans survived on this planet for milenia long before the advent of medical science
I can only point you to the following websites, you would need to search for the individual vaccines and find out for yourself the different side effects listed. Note that these are the British National Formulary for children and adults here in the U.K. and are the definitive tomes for all medications here.
https://bnfc.nice.org.uk/
https://bnf.nice.org.uk/
To help you here is the vaccination schedule for the U.K., which are not mandated
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/routine-childhood-immunisation-schedule/routine-childhood-immunisations-from-february-2022-born-on-or-after-1-january-2020
Our VAERS system and VICP has paid out over $4.5 billion in damages with 1% reporting and an adversarial court
www.openvaers.com
I cannot comment on US practices, here in the U.K., if a person has >=60% disability that can be shown to be caused by a vaccination then they are paid a one off sum of £132000 as a government benefit. They can still sue the company for damages.
https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/vaccine-damage-payment-scheme-vdps
Yup, humans survived infections throughout history. But billions didn’t.
Smallpox alone is estimated to have killed at least half a billion just in the last century, never mind the death toll through the Middle Ages.
So why did some survive while others did not?
Because of their individual immune system, the Black Death had a survival rate of approximately 50% - 60% in Europe. Besides Neanderthal DNA, other Homo sapiens from the Turkey region emigrated across Europe, and it is possible that they had some immunity to the plague bacteria.
Genetics, and viral variation (variola minor vs variola major)
Nor does one know how likely it is that the patient have a severe vaccine reaction. We were talking about usually mild childhood diseases, not paralytic polio. Olivia Dahl was past the feverish stage and was recovering, but complained of a headache and her mother gave her an aspirin, which caused Reye’s syndrome and meningitis. At that time, 1963, they did not yet know of the dangers of giving aspirin to children.
Olivia Dahl caught measles, developed a mild fever, then convulsions and lethargy. Admitted to Stoke Mandeville hospital in Buckinghamshire U.K. where she later died of encephalitis. She was playing chess with her father the day before she deteriorated.
“ In November 1962, the Dahls learned there had been a measles outbreak at seven-year-old Olivia's school. No measles vaccine was available at the time, so those exposed were likely to catch the easily transmissible virus. However, there was an available treatment: gamma globulin, a blood plasma protein whose antibodies could prevent or lessen the severity of the infection.
In America, gamma globulin was regularly administered to children, but in the United Kingdom, it was usually only given to pregnant women. Dahl's brother-in-law, Ashley Miles, was a prominent U.K. doctor, so Neal reached out to him to try to obtain gamma globulin for the children. However, Miles only provided enough for Theo, who was still recovering from his accident, saying, "Let the girls get measles, it will be good for them."
Olivia soon developed the well-known measles rash. After three days she was well enough to get chess lessons from Dahl, and even beat her father at the game. But on the fourth day of her illness, she was lethargic. When Dahl tried to entertain her, he "noticed that her fingers and her mind were not working together and she couldn’t do anything." Later that day Olivia began having convulsions.” https://www.biography.com/authors-writers/roald-dahl-daughter-measles-death
https://www.immunize.org/wp-content/uploads/nslt.d/n60/measles.pdf
I’ve had many a discussion with Cia over the years. She’s a fantasist who thinks she knows “more about infections than the CDC and the WHO put together”.
She has invented her own bizarre narrative about Olivia Dahl’s measles illness, to justify her claims no healthy child will die from measles.
No healthy child who is minimally nursed and takes no fever reducers. Taking a fever reducer like aspirin, Tylenol, or Ibuprofen makes several tragic outcomes possible. Taking A prevents several sequelae like eye damage.
You haven’t been keeping up if you think that the CDC and WHO continue to be worthy of any respect.
Are hou going to get the new monkeypox vaccine on top of the many smallpox vaccines you have gotten? We would not, not ever having contact with certain groups.
Liar. We’ve discussed this before, Cia.
Olivia Dahl died from measles encephalitis, not Reye’s syndrome.
Yes, we did, but as I told you, I read ten years ago that her mother said she had given her aspirin. You know that I would not insist on this if it were not what I had read. It is not proof, I recognize that, and I told you that I had considered buying Patricia O’ Neal’s autobiography thinking that she might have included it there, but thought that forty dollars on Amazon to be too much to try to prove the point. It might be considered obsessive.
Their doctor made several house calls and was mot in the least concerned about her case. A mild case, past the fever, recovering well. Prove she didn’t take aspirin. I read she did, so that Reye’s syndrome would be consistent with the outcome. You said that Dahl said she suddenly got much worse. He may very well not have been told that Patricia had given her an aspirin, it was such an ordinary thing to do. Find where she was explicitly asked and denied having given her aspirin. I daresay no one at the time would have given it a second thought.
Yes. Everyone I ever knew my age or older had gotten natural measles as a child. Most chickenpox as well. The patients must be well-nursed, give A to measles patients, and then the child recovers with usually permanent immunity, the ability to protect future infants, and protection from many cancers. Having had chickenpox protects against glioma. Every fever from contagious disease as a child which is not reduced, lowers future canncer risk by about 20% each.
I heard you went to an HPV party, Rombios!
PS: why mention measles or chickenpox parties?
You don’t think viruses exist, so what function could these have possibly had?
>I heard you went you to an HPV party rombios
How do you think i met your mother ?
> other nonsense about Chickenpox and Measles
We are discussing historical facts and actions not whether or not they were correct or effective.
Leeches and parasites were employed by the medical establishment to threat illnesses in the past. Thats a statement of historical fact not a judgement on its effectiveness
Try and keep up
Except chickenpox parties WERE very effective at giving the attendees chickenpox.
Why was that?
How do you know? Where you there ?
Yes, I’ve been there.
You said several years ago that many parents were eager for their children to get chickenpox so that it wouldn’t ruin a planned holiday. Your daughter got it and had to miss a planned trip to the Lake District. She might have done better to have gone to a chickenpox party.
back after watching the recent twiv episode. to remind paul: YOU ARE NOT ON MY SIDE.
I don't care what political party youre in paul. I don't care what your position is on policy. I don't care if your opinion supports the candidate I like.
you are a pharmaceutical industry salesman. paul you are not a scientist or a doctor. never forget that.
You should watch this from Ryan McBeth. He’s a military and software analyst and thrives on identifying and going after misinformation. He shredded the 2025 document by reading it all. Might find interesting. https://youtu.be/vf4BJZW9pY4?si=aosbK8Vr53PmR8fl
Historical fact say otherwise
https://vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1.html
2025 is not on Trump's platform. He has disavowed it. I'm not sure why it keeps coming up.