There's legitimate reasons people are less trusting of the CDC these days. When a place once respected for their scientific research starts signaling their political stances in subtle but clear ways (e.g. advocating DEI, emphasizing suicide prevention for minorities but not men who are actually the highest risk group, renaming monkeypox to "mpox" out of concern it sounds racist), it undermines trust in their impartiality. I say this as someone who leans left politically too: I just want the science, enough with the politics! So when it comes to vaccine advice from the CDC or you Mr. Offit, I'm going to go with you.
That is not what the Pfizer & Moderna Ph3 studies evaluated: it was not prevention of severe infection, but symptomatic infection plus a positive PCR test.
Why? Because so few people get severe Covid, especially in a young healthy patient population as was in this study. The study would have to be much bigger and in older people to show what Offit suggests it does.
Why does that matter? Firstly there’s a degree of subjectivity as to who has symptoms and whether of not a PCR test is conducted - which is especially important if the study is not properly blinded (and testimony from Brooke Jackson suggests it wasn’t).
Secondly, who cares if a vaccine stops a person getting a mild cold? Extrapolating these data to a different patient population and with a different outcome, is 2 assumptions too far.
Did anyone need the initial jabs? Yes
Did the studies conducted look for the right benefit in the patient population that matters? No
Do we know they worked then? No we do not. Everything else is just post hoc rationalisation fraught with bias, wishful thinking and butt covering.
These “boosters” are a gamble for everyone, with the stakes far higher for the healthy. Don’t risk it.
You are not wrong. However, is there a benefit of reduced transmission leading to fewer cases overall and reducing exposure to those at increased risk? We've promoted influenza vaccine for health care workers, especially in long term care, to protect those with poor immunity. Does that not apply to SARS CoV2 as well?
I GREATLY appreciate Dr Offit’s work to help us all and specifically help us be smart about vaccinations
In the Microbe.TV/BTN podcast, he mentioned that every vaccination raises the risk of an immune attack on heart tissue as a key part of his rationale of limiting potential harm
But although *I* seem to be one of 3 Americans who’ve not had COVID, isn’t it pretty much expected that essentially all of the lower-risk groups WILL get infected? How much stronger of an immune response will an actual infection generate than Yet Another Shot?
I’d also wish for even better messaging: America’s number one risk from COVID seems to be from our people being under- or non-vaccinated; any time Dr O talks about people NOT needing a shot, I wish it would be CLEARLY PRECEDED by the reminder of how important it is for the populace to acquire immunity the safest way possible
New Zealand at 30+ is lowest after Austria and US/CAN.
After that 60-65+ is standard recommendation.
Considering that only 2.1% of the EU bothered with 3rd booster, I suspect only a handful will go for the 4th anyway. The public is treating CDC/PH like Catholics regard Vatican recommendations not to use birth control.
This could be interpreted that the govt regulators have lost control of the relationship between common sense public Heath and manufacturers making products for that purpose. Pharma has demonstrated repeatedly they are not above selling drugs that are not needed.
What about encouraging boosters to help prevent others (who are in our community and may be high risk) from getting it? And to help decrease spread as well. Are these not reasons to get a booster in the fall? Genuinely curious
Thank you for speaking out on this issue. FDA and CDC appeared locked into strategy of forever covid boosters, defying science and the rest of the world. Leaders are making exaggerated and false claims to support, further undermining public trust in the independence of these agencies.
The CDC would do well to adopt graded guidance for recommendations, similar to what American College of Cardiology, American Heart Association, and other medical societies do. They are effectively making a Class I recommendation for novel covid boosters for all with Level of Evidence C-EO/LD - something never done in any cardiology guidelines I am aware of. They would have done better to make new booster a 2A recommendation for high-risk groups and 2B for all others.
Appreciate this viewpoint. I am on TNF inhibitors from severe crohns and I’m glad I have a doc that stayed on top of things during the pandemic. Sadly I was driven by fear the first few months of the pandemic and took a Moderna dose. I got Covid last year and although it was no joke I recovered well. My doc told me I’m not at huge risk at this point bc TNF inhibitors did not appear to have a difference in outcomes based on what she learned. We will all get Covid again and again and I’ll let me body do what it does at this point / no more boosters for me.
As always, Dr. Offit is a humble and genius leader who speaks the truth based on the data that we have at hand at this moment. Actions like this for political gain risk another Influenza Pandemic or Measles Outbreak when there is already a shortage of Pediatricians, Pediatric sub-specialists, and Pediatric hospital beds. We also give oxygen to the charlatans on Joe Rogan who urge our families not to vaccinate and claim all pediatricians are non-thinking pharma salespersons.
I feel like this is a very reasonable interpretation of the evidence, but definitely plan to get a shot anyway. The problem is that
1) another round of shots is probably cost effective at an individual and societal level, because the cost of even mild illness is pretty high!
2) another round of shots is enormously less important than the earlier rounds, and it is important to maintain the credibility of the CDC for people at the margins so that when shots are REALLY important people get them.
No one would care about any of this if it wasn’t mandated, it should be a choice. And who cares what people spend their money on by choice. Imagine if the govt came along and mandated everyone take vitamin D to keep their jobs. That’s how ridiculous it is.
There's legitimate reasons people are less trusting of the CDC these days. When a place once respected for their scientific research starts signaling their political stances in subtle but clear ways (e.g. advocating DEI, emphasizing suicide prevention for minorities but not men who are actually the highest risk group, renaming monkeypox to "mpox" out of concern it sounds racist), it undermines trust in their impartiality. I say this as someone who leans left politically too: I just want the science, enough with the politics! So when it comes to vaccine advice from the CDC or you Mr. Offit, I'm going to go with you.
You are the voice of reason. Refreshing and much appreciated, Dr. Offit.
That is not what the Pfizer & Moderna Ph3 studies evaluated: it was not prevention of severe infection, but symptomatic infection plus a positive PCR test.
Why? Because so few people get severe Covid, especially in a young healthy patient population as was in this study. The study would have to be much bigger and in older people to show what Offit suggests it does.
Why does that matter? Firstly there’s a degree of subjectivity as to who has symptoms and whether of not a PCR test is conducted - which is especially important if the study is not properly blinded (and testimony from Brooke Jackson suggests it wasn’t).
Secondly, who cares if a vaccine stops a person getting a mild cold? Extrapolating these data to a different patient population and with a different outcome, is 2 assumptions too far.
Did anyone need the initial jabs? Yes
Did the studies conducted look for the right benefit in the patient population that matters? No
Do we know they worked then? No we do not. Everything else is just post hoc rationalisation fraught with bias, wishful thinking and butt covering.
These “boosters” are a gamble for everyone, with the stakes far higher for the healthy. Don’t risk it.
You are not wrong. However, is there a benefit of reduced transmission leading to fewer cases overall and reducing exposure to those at increased risk? We've promoted influenza vaccine for health care workers, especially in long term care, to protect those with poor immunity. Does that not apply to SARS CoV2 as well?
I GREATLY appreciate Dr Offit’s work to help us all and specifically help us be smart about vaccinations
In the Microbe.TV/BTN podcast, he mentioned that every vaccination raises the risk of an immune attack on heart tissue as a key part of his rationale of limiting potential harm
But although *I* seem to be one of 3 Americans who’ve not had COVID, isn’t it pretty much expected that essentially all of the lower-risk groups WILL get infected? How much stronger of an immune response will an actual infection generate than Yet Another Shot?
I’d also wish for even better messaging: America’s number one risk from COVID seems to be from our people being under- or non-vaccinated; any time Dr O talks about people NOT needing a shot, I wish it would be CLEARLY PRECEDED by the reminder of how important it is for the populace to acquire immunity the safest way possible
Thanks again
I put together a spreadsheet tracking recommendations by country here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oJusZ0yAve1cCCSS5MGjp1XYjNc7qJffqJsz7ARlnLg/edit?usp=sharing
US, Canada outliers at 6 mo+
Austria at 12+ is outlier in EU.
New Zealand at 30+ is lowest after Austria and US/CAN.
After that 60-65+ is standard recommendation.
Considering that only 2.1% of the EU bothered with 3rd booster, I suspect only a handful will go for the 4th anyway. The public is treating CDC/PH like Catholics regard Vatican recommendations not to use birth control.
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/COVID-19-vaccination-strategies-march-2023.pdf
This could be interpreted that the govt regulators have lost control of the relationship between common sense public Heath and manufacturers making products for that purpose. Pharma has demonstrated repeatedly they are not above selling drugs that are not needed.
What about encouraging boosters to help prevent others (who are in our community and may be high risk) from getting it? And to help decrease spread as well. Are these not reasons to get a booster in the fall? Genuinely curious
Thank you for speaking out on this issue. FDA and CDC appeared locked into strategy of forever covid boosters, defying science and the rest of the world. Leaders are making exaggerated and false claims to support, further undermining public trust in the independence of these agencies.
The CDC would do well to adopt graded guidance for recommendations, similar to what American College of Cardiology, American Heart Association, and other medical societies do. They are effectively making a Class I recommendation for novel covid boosters for all with Level of Evidence C-EO/LD - something never done in any cardiology guidelines I am aware of. They would have done better to make new booster a 2A recommendation for high-risk groups and 2B for all others.
I trust your advice. Thank you for clear explanations.
Appreciate this viewpoint. I am on TNF inhibitors from severe crohns and I’m glad I have a doc that stayed on top of things during the pandemic. Sadly I was driven by fear the first few months of the pandemic and took a Moderna dose. I got Covid last year and although it was no joke I recovered well. My doc told me I’m not at huge risk at this point bc TNF inhibitors did not appear to have a difference in outcomes based on what she learned. We will all get Covid again and again and I’ll let me body do what it does at this point / no more boosters for me.
As always, Dr. Offit is a humble and genius leader who speaks the truth based on the data that we have at hand at this moment. Actions like this for political gain risk another Influenza Pandemic or Measles Outbreak when there is already a shortage of Pediatricians, Pediatric sub-specialists, and Pediatric hospital beds. We also give oxygen to the charlatans on Joe Rogan who urge our families not to vaccinate and claim all pediatricians are non-thinking pharma salespersons.
I feel like this is a very reasonable interpretation of the evidence, but definitely plan to get a shot anyway. The problem is that
1) another round of shots is probably cost effective at an individual and societal level, because the cost of even mild illness is pretty high!
2) another round of shots is enormously less important than the earlier rounds, and it is important to maintain the credibility of the CDC for people at the margins so that when shots are REALLY important people get them.
I’m so fed up with the lies we’ve been told about the Covid-19 vaccines. With all the facts that have been surfaced, how can anyone trust the captured FDA, NIH and CDC, let alone the Biden Administration and the “influencers” paid to deceive the public. I’ve read over 900 articles about this vaccine, almost 300 research reports from peer reviewed journals and listened to MDs on both sides of the argument. There’s so much data on the corruption I can’t believe anyone would stand in line for these new jabs. https://www.theepochtimes.com/health/forensic-analysis-of-deaths-in-pfizer-biontechs-early-mrna-vaccine-trial-show-significant-inconsistencies-5487136?utm_source=healthnoe&src_src=healthnoe&utm_campaign=health-2023-09-12&src_cmp=health-2023-09-12&utm_medium=email&est=JL9c2kmfAk1QCwo%2BViizjvDYXv9%2BEa%2FzdbxADzZXLdx3CsbHS8yIlCsNi%2BT3p3iR
As usual not a word on side effects.
No one would care about any of this if it wasn’t mandated, it should be a choice. And who cares what people spend their money on by choice. Imagine if the govt came along and mandated everyone take vitamin D to keep their jobs. That’s how ridiculous it is.