Somebody needs to tell the anti-vaxxers to get their story straight. Either measles are "no big deal," OR "they" have "weaponized" the virus to be more deadly. It can't be both. That's what happens when you lie: you eventually run into the brick wall of reality and you are forced to either admit the truth or concoct more and more outrageous claims that are contradictory. They won't lose their "true believers," but those who are merely vaccine hesitant will see through it.
Believing a virus may have been weaponized isn’t ludicrous when you realize the virus that causes COVID-19 was itself a weaponized virus. By the government. And the government denied it for years.
(If this is news to you, I’m sorry to be the one to break it to you.)
Does nobody understand complexity anymore? Or are we all on opposite sides of extremism?
I'm not sure if you believe the Chinese government or the US government "weaponized" Covid-19, and if so, whether intentionally to use as a bioweapon, or through gain of function research. In any case, no, I do not believe the Republican version issued in their report because their conclusions were unsupported by empirical evidence. I have a strange tendency to rely more on scientists than politicians when it comes to such matters, and they say, "Of the three possibilities — natural, accidental, or deliberate — the most scientific evidence yet identified supports natural emergence." (See article for the actual evidence if interested, which I suspect you are not.) But context now is different; the claim Kory makes is that MEASLES is being weaponized. By whom? ("They"). For what purpose? Kill all the unvaccinated? But if they "weaponized" it and changed the virus, how can they be sure all the vaccinated people (including themselves) are safe? The vaccine may not protect against the "weaponized" version. Oh, I know. They made a new vaccine and already secretly gave it to all of us pro-vaccine folks. I will agree with you that their ramblings are certainly complex!
What matters going forward? I agree with the scientists that "We need to plan ahead so that scientists get rapid access to key geographic sites, open scientific exchange, and full transparency...these steps are the keys to...preparing the world for the future outbreaks that are certain to occur." What are we doing instead? Cutting funding for all such endeavors so that we will be totally unprepared for the next pandemic when it occurs. Because, well, you know, we don't need all that scientific crap! We can just eat "unprocessed healthy food" like we did for millennia and we'll be just fine, even though the average life expectancy will go back to 30-40 years like it was through more than 99% of our time here in earth. You go there; I'll stay here, thanks.
The preponderance of evidence points to a lab leak from gain of function research funded by the US government.
If gain of function research isn’t for weaponization, what is it for? I’m sure you can come up with many conjectures. But conjectures aren’t evidence. It’s just justification for something we don’t know the answer to. Occam’s razor suggests we must conclude that viruses made virulent in a lab were weaponized.
And when this is secretly going on, by definition we don’t know who “they” are.
Let’s say a bomb hit us and we don’t know who did it. You’re trying to argue that because we don’t know exactly who dropped the bomb that it’s illogical to worry about more bombs unless you know who “they” are.
The real issue here is that governments are weaponizing viruses and they are leaking them (purposely or not). This isn’t conjecture. That should scare the crap out of us way more than fearing some new wild virus is going to come along.
Let’s not lose the forest for the trees. Distrust in government is absolutely 100% warranted. And Wuhan leak is just one example.
Regarding the lab leak theory, I wonder why lab leak truther Saar Wilf lost his own $100,000 debate on the issue? For people who are authentically curious about the evidence and are open minded enough to hear what the evidence is, I recommend listening to an interview of Peter Miller in first link (he won the debate by judges selected by BOTH debaters). He didn't initially have any idea where it came from, but he wanted to know, so he did what smart people do; he hunkered down and studied every piece of the evidence and then used logical and statistical (but not easily manipulated bayesian) reasoning. The article in second link is also interesting but if you have time for just one and want to know the evidence, pick the video. Worth the listen if you really want to hear the evidence. Or you can listen to all 18 hours of the debate! :)
I stand corrected. I thought the evidence for a lab leak theory was stronger than the wet market theory. From a Bayesian perspective based on the available evidence, it appears the wet market origin theory (although not proven) has the preponderance of evidence. Thank you for the eye opening video link.
Speaking of Bayesian reasoning, after our conversation I asked standard ChatGPT (no other input fed to it) the following:
> Many parents of autistic children swear their child regressed soon after a vaccine. What other examples in history (besides vaccines) can you find of people who are insistent over decades that a medical intervention has been harming people, but the medical industry denies it?
The ChatGPT response was too long for a comment, so I just decided to publish a post and link it here:
You're welcome, and I hope I was respectful. I know I can get snarky sometimes, and I really don't like that side of me. Also, congratulations on being the only person whose mind I have ever changed on this topic! At least, I think I did. Given the link to your own article, I'm not actually sure but will assume you are being truthful, in which case, you are the rare truly open-minded person. I agree it can never be definitively proven without China's help, and for reasons pointed out by Miller, that's not going to happen. That's why I think it's crucial to be prepared for pandemics from BOTH potential sources, and currently, I'm with Miller that H5N1 is truly frightening and we should prepare/plan/prevent but we are going in the opposite direction.
As for parents reporting symptoms of autism shortly after vaccination, yes, as a psychologist who has evaluated MANY children with autism, I'm well aware of that, and I can understand why some people would believe there's a connection, but as we all know, correlation is not causation, and in this case, the correlation isn't even that strong. Research suggests that this type of autism (regressive autism), occurs in only 20-40% of people with ASD, while the other 60-80% of individuals with ASD have early symptoms, prior to vaccination. I personally have diagnosed a child at 6 months, but kids are often not brought in for evaluations until quite some time after onset, as parents are often understandably in denial and think their child will "catch up," and in the old days, their pediatrician also told them as much. It should also be noted that developmental regression in children has been reported for over 100 years (since long before vaccines), and that
it occurs in other developmental disorders besides autism (link below).
Also, autism occurs in children who were never vaccinated, so even if vaccines were a trigger for a small subset (which seems unlikely given no difference in overall incidence between vaccinated and unvaccinated), there must be other potential triggers. My bet is on a virus, the bane of humans' existence! I agree parents should always be respected. Thanks for the discourse - it's been interesting! :)
Well, I kind of agree with you, as I DO distrust the current US administration and majority party in the Senate and House. Many (most?) scientists disagree with your assessment about what the "preponderance" of the evidence supports, but I agree that lab leaks COULD happen, which is why I (and the scientists in the article) said planning and preventative actions are essential to prevent BOTH animal-human spillovers (which CAN happen), AND leaks from labs. But again, we are doing the OPPOSITE and therefore will be even less prepared next time than last time, not to mention shortening the timeline to its initiation. I'm still thoroughly confused about the motivations of ANYBODY who would weaponize measles, and still wondering how they could ensure it would only kill their perceived enemies. Must be some really evil geniuses. 😱
This retired health law attorney read your comment several times and cannot understand your logic. I do not understand the contradiction that you see. Do you mean that vaccines have been intentionally weaponized and that the anti-vaxxers are a result of this weaponization?
Seriously. I'm not a lawyer, but I can see what Sobshrink is saying. He is pointing out that AntiVaxxers are advancing 2 Hypotheses which contradict each other. (Which they clearly do). So he/she is saying "if this is an honest discussion, which hypothesis do you believe?"..
My hypothesis is the 'vaxxers' are scared of dandelions spreading in their lawns. This irrational prejudice has spread to invisible particles they believe are infectious. You can tell it is dandelions because when they draw "the 'virus" it looks like a dandelion flower. They could add some dandelion flower to their diets to help relieve the 'vaccine' addiction. Dandelion has antidepressive effects:
Donna, when I first read your comment shortly after you posted it, I didn't have time to respond. I was about to respond to it now but I see it's been edited into a totally different comment/question. I'm not sure why you changed it but apparently you still don't see the contradiction that seems glaring to me and the 17 folks who liked what I wrote. Let me see if I can make it more clear. Dr. Offit summarized the stated positions of 2 prominent anti-vaxxers (RFK, Jr. and Dr. Kory). These 2 messages are contradictory: RFK, Jr. has made many comments DOWNPLAYING the measles outbreak, while Dr. Kory said measles are SO bad that "they" must have WEAPONIZED it. (Who is "they?") Kory's exact words were: “Do you want to know the real story on this case? Several of us believe that they weaponized the measles virus—on purpose! She got sicker from this measles probably because they monkeyed with the virus.” So it appears Dr. Kory thinks measles are deadly because some un-named person or group weaponized the virus, while RFK, Jr. thinks measles are not "that bad." I never saw a more glaring contradiction. If you had those two men on the witness stand testifying for Big Pharma and you were cross examining them, would you not pounce on that?
It's a travesty numerous individuals have obtained a medical degree, apparently licenced to practice 🤔 ...they truly require remedial practice yet they have lost or never grasp basic immunology 😞
Certain antivaxers claim that measles is harmless. But the same antivaxers seem to support another narrative from Pierre Kory (a delicensed doctor) that the recent deaths were from a “weaponised” version of the virus, and that this measles has been bioengineered to be more lethal.
In August 2023, Kory had his board certifications revoked by the American Board of Internal Medicine for "spreading false or inaccurate medical information".
Measles is the most intense of the childhood diseases. Most children do fine with the most basic care. Some experience complications. 450 deaths out of three and a half million cases in 1960 in the US. I would rather nurse it carefully and avoid the vomplications. But having natural immunity to measles is valuable, and we should let measles come back.
Measles has not been weaponized at this time. After bioengineered Covid, it is not a ridiculous idea, but the over a thousand measles patients in this outbreak have had normal cases and recovered normally, except for the Mennonite girls who had incompetent doctors.
I had a reply I was writing disappear. Starting with a discussion of mycoplasma pneumonia having become common in Texas schoolchildren since spring 2024. I’m tired, and cannot try to reconstruct my comment now. Fortunately this link was still a finger’s touch away. To be honest, I think that you whisk my comments away.
My response was being made to Donna. I am extremely confused how she read your comment and somehow deduced that you were stating that the measles was a weaponized bioweapon
I’ve never been more devastated in all my 30 years of practice. I can’t figure out what they are trying to gain, from RFK on down? I assume it’s power. It’s not wanting to be told what to do. The leaders fuel the parents with fear and paranoia. I just don’t understand what these leaders really gain out of it. I suppose we all want a cause to stand for. Why they would choose this and believe their own lies is beyond me.
I don’t know about the rest of the anti-vaxers, but for RFK jr the benefit is profits in the millions for referring people to trial lawyers suing vaccine makers.
And feeding his narcissism. And tax-free donations to "Children's Health Defense," which paid him several million dollars over a few years ($$$$). And the book sales ($$), speaking engagements ($$$$), adulation as Saviour, etc.
Here are excerpts from a November 2023 New York Times article:
By Susanne Craig Published Nov. 16, 2023 Updated Aug. 29, 2024
In 2021, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. earned more than $500,000 as the chairman and top lawyer at Children’s Health Defense, the nonprofit organization that he has helped build into a leading spreader of anti-vaccine falsehoods and a platform for launching his independent bid for the White House.
The compensation was almost three times as high as the amount paid to the organization’s president, but it was not Mr. Kennedy’s biggest source of income. Neither was his family’s fabled wealth. Instead, most of his earnings around the same time came from law firms — a total of $7 million for lending them his name, connections and expertise to sue major companies.
Throughout his long public life, Mr. Kennedy has cultivated an image as a man committed to a greater good, the blessing and burden of belonging to one of America’s most storied political families. Whether cleaning up rivers as an environmentalist or railing against the purported dangers of inoculations, he has said he is driven by his family’s legacy of civic duty and sacrifice.
He built his presidential run around similar themes, even as his cousin dismissed the campaign as a “vanity project” and other relatives disavowed his beliefs. On the trail, Mr. Kennedy has delivered a populist message of anti-corporate rhetoric and debunked science while invoking a powerful lineage: his uncles, former President John F. Kennedy and Senator Ted Kennedy, and his father, Senator Robert F. Kennedy.
------------
But an examination of Mr. Kennedy’s finances by The New York Times, including public filings and almost two dozen interviews as well as tax returns and other documents not previously made public, showed that while he appears to believe in the causes he champions, they have also had a practical benefit: His crusades, backed by the power of his name, have earned him tens of millions of dollars.
Behind much of his public career has been a relentless private hustle: board positions and advisory gigs, side deals with law firms, book contracts and an exhausting schedule of paid speeches, once upward of 60 a year by his own count.
While most people have to work, Mr. Kennedy did not always settle for the six-figure salary he was earning in positions with nonprofits. For decades, he has entwined his loftier missions with opportunities for enrichment. In addition to his salary at Children’s Health Defense, for instance, he stands to profit personally from lawsuits, including against the pharmaceutical giant Merck over a common vaccine for children.
When Mr. Kennedy was still best known as an environmentalist, he met Alan Salzman, an investor in clean technology companies, and was intrigued: Mr. Kennedy wanted to find alternatives to carbon-based energy, “which I think is the biggest enemy to American democracy and the environment,” he said in a 2012 deposition reviewed by The Times.
“And I also saw it as an opportunity to make some money for my family,” he continued.
Mr. Kennedy would earn millions of dollars over at least eight years from work connected to Mr. Salzman’s venture capital firm, VantagePoint, including promoting a project that other environmentalists opposed.
In an interview, Mr. Kennedy said that he was proud of giving his family a good life while promoting his causes.
“I have been able to use the various gifts I’ve been given — education, the contacts and the value of a name that a generation in my family put a lot of effort into enhancing and retaining its value,” he said. “I’m grateful that I’ve been given those gifts and that I am able to do well by doing good.”
His campaign said in a statement that he had “never put a need or desire to make money ahead of his values and moral compass.”
Recently, Mr. Kennedy’s presidential bid has gained some traction. In a poll conducted last month by The Times and Siena College, 24 percent of voters in battleground states said they would support Mr. Kennedy in a theoretical matchup between him, President Biden and former President Donald J. Trump, the leading Republican candidate.
In the campaign, Mr. Kennedy has cast himself as an heir to his family’s mystique. Yet what has at times looked from the outside like the glamorous life of a dynastic prince has occasionally been underwritten by others.
Wealthy friends were behind the purchase of the home Mr. Kennedy used on the family compound on Cape Cod, records show. He had an arrangement with a major environmental nonprofit group to pay for his children to accompany him on work trips, and he accepted a free Lexus as part of a promotional event for green vehicles.
“The Kennedys’ wealth is inextricably intertwined with people’s impression of the Kennedys — and that isn’t a surprise when you think their grandfather amassed one of America’s biggest fortunes when his kids were young,” said Fredrik Logevall, a historian at Harvard who is writing a two-volume biography of John F. Kennedy.
“But two generations later,” Professor Logevall said, “some family members have more of the money than others.”
____________________________________________
A Shadow Career
In addition to his jobs with nonprofits and his law firms, Mr. Kennedy turned to paid speeches as a big source of income. He said he could charge as much as $250,000 for a talk overseas, and at least $25,000 for others.
By the time he entered into divorce proceedings with Ms. Richardson Kennedy, he was on the road at a frenetic pace, at one point giving more than 60 speeches a year. (Ms. Richardson Kennedy died by suicide in 2012, before the divorce was final.)
If he wasn’t around enough to put in a traditional workweek at any one organization, his name and natural charisma certainly raised their profiles and drew celebrities and deep-pocketed benefactors to their events, including the actors Pierce Brosnan, Alec Baldwin and Ms. Hines.
At the same time, Mr. Kennedy’s high-profile environmental work opened the door to a lucrative shadow career as a corporate director and consultant. His reputation, experience and wide network of contacts had value: He could make introductions, offer advice or help secure financing.
A turning point had come in 2005. Mr. Kennedy gave a speech at the home of Mr. Salzman, the managing partner of VantagePoint Capital Partners, then one of California’s most prominent venture capital firms. It was an early investor in Tesla, the electric carmaker, and was known for backing companies that were offering solutions to the planet’s environmental problems.
Mr. Salzman hired Mr. Kennedy in 2007, initially paying him $100,000 a year to consult on potential investments. “He was obviously passionate about clean water, but also well-connected and very knowledgeable,” Mr. Salzman told The Times.
In 2009 Mr. Kennedy became a partner, earning $340,000 at VantagePoint, in addition to his other sources of income. Two years later his salary had jumped to more than $750,000, records show.
THEN - MONEY STARTS REALLY ROLLING IN
Read the paywalled piece - clear your cookies and cache.
Fear is a revenue generator. See Fox News, and RFKs anti-vaccine litigation business. They don’t care about the collateral damage, just the dollars they can put in their own pockets.
I’m surprised that you’re surprised. RFK wants public acknowlegment and show the proof that vaccines cause autism, as in my daughter’s case. I’m sure parents will be free to choose or refuse the vaccines they want to, but all vaccine mandates will be ended, and honest information about the dangers of vaccine reactions, including autism, allergic, and autoimmune disease, will be published and discussed. And careful records will be kept of outcomes, and everyone will watch closely. I think within a few years, most people will refuse all or nearly all vaccines.
Are you seriously that oblivious to all of the deaths? Do you not recall the overflowing morgues in NY? I don’t think those families appreciate your calling this a cold. And to think that you believe that thousands and thousands of doctors and researchers have maintained some huge conspiracy against you and the public is where the irrational fear is.
Phil is a useless fucking troll, fully committed to the bit of repeating the same absolute nonsense on every evidence-based science post on infectious disease, vaccines, and/or public health policy he has a Google alert set up for.
Phil is happy as a pig in shit so long as he's wasting your time by wasting his.
“fully documented” lol you’re an idiot - just a pile of dogshit on the sidewalk it annoys people to have to step around and really annoys them if they accidentally step in
On the contrary, valid research (not the back of an envelope wittering from “law makers”) conducted by epidemiologists and experts in public health indicates that covid deaths were UNDER-REPORTED by 35%.
COVID-19 vaccines and adverse events of special interest: A multinational Global Vaccine Data Network (GVDN) cohort study of 99 million vaccinated individuals
COVID-19 vaccines and adverse events of special interest: A multinational Global Vaccine Data Network (GVDN) cohort study of 99 million vaccinated individuals
"Our analyses inherently involve heterogeneity in data collection, quality, and reporting standards across countries. These differences in healthcare infrastructure and surveillance systems can introduce bias and affect the comparability of results. The participating sites across the eight countries implemented varied vaccination strategies, including vaccine types, dosing schedules, and prioritization of vaccine recipients. Moreover, the multi-country analyses are susceptible to population confounding factors, such as differences in pre-existing health conditions, genetic factors, ethnic profiles, and behavioural patterns, which was not possible to adjust for in our analysis. We consider our approach suitable for application in large datasets representing average populations. However, age- and sex-specific historic background rates that are not adjusted for factors like prior disease may not provide a suitable comparison, for example, in the early stages of a vaccination campaigns where people with co-morbidities were vaccinated prior to other population groups."
"The involvement of researchers and data sources from diverse regions of the world promotes inclusivity, reduces potential biases, and fosters collaboration in the pursuit of a shared public health goal. While our study confirmed previously identified rare safety signals following COVID-19 vaccination and contributed evidence on several other important outcomes, further investigation is warranted to confirm associations and assess clinical significance."
Make that "RARE" and unconfirmed findings needing further investigation to reduce bias, & confounding. Try reading the actual study before posting it.
But those were vaccine deaths! Even in 2020, before vaccine rollouts. And ivermectin-deficiencies. And the doctors killed them with ventilators for profit (and fun).
I agree that Covid was very serious with 2% mortality in the US in symptomatic cases 2019-end 2021. It surprises me that many have forgotten and deny this. But that was because it was bioengineered to be noth very virulent and readily transmitted. The disease was often very serious and disabling, even fatal, and triggered disabling long Covid in millions, including me. Then the vaccine turned out to be even more dangerous than the disease, killing millions outright with SADS, or disabling them (us) with long Vaccine. Both the disease and the vaccine were a criminal con job. The vaccine(s) may have been somewhat effective until Omicron, but after that no longer were.
To be clear, I'm very pro-vaccine, as my comments here always reflect. I'm also a psychologist. I don't think it's helpful to disparage people who disagree with you, but I will admit that I have done it because sometimes it's very hard not to! I know some bright people who are against vaccines. I believe it can be explained more by emotions rather than cognitions; specifically existential anxiety. I know, that sounds paradoxical, and it is. If you want to know more, listen to Sheldon Solomon's many YouTube videos or read about Terror Management Theory. Cheers! :)
Sir, I agree one should not outwardly disparage someone's comment because one does not agree, yet vulgarity & poor logic can strain one's patience.
I have been following Dr. Kristen Panthagani, MD, PhD, posts on being more empathetic to those misinformed possibly by "miscommunication" that has fueled scepticism of those vaccine reluctant or maybe anti-vaxxers.
Certainly, in the early days, months & yr's during the pandemic (possibly now endemic) messaging became conflicting but we were & continue to chase a moving target. It's never easy to convey complex PH issues in brief news interviewd or announcements from health officials.
However, if those in high government positions, including your president were advocating for the best practices currently available, I believe fewer skeptics would be left confused, conflicted or conspiracy promoters.
I hear you. Empathy is usually easier to practice in person with most people, most of the time. That's mainly how you influence folks; one-on-one through relationships over time.
Let me offer my apologies to you for the really stupid and offensive remarks "our" President has made about your country. I said "our" because I have never voted for him and he does not represent me or the 50.2% of the US population that voted for another candidate. It's an interesting question whether Trump is the cause of our current dysfunction, or he merely exploited and exacerbated it. We were definitely divided before 2016 but it seems to be on steroids now, not to mention that our democracy is at stake. I think Trump is only in control of MAGA to a certain extent. He took pride in "his" vaccines until he tried promoting them at one of his rallies and got booed. After that, he never promoted them again. Who knows if/when/how this country will return to its senses but if it doesn't soon, I'm thinking of heading to Canada. Got room?! :)
Thank you sir. You should not have to apologize for the poor behavior of DJT because you have no responsibility for his lack of decorum. I myself cannot help referring to him as a "bully" ...fact... ironically the Chinese finance minister & their president have called Trump out on his ridiculous tactics. There is no "art of the deal" when it's predicted upon Trump only get the deal he wants. DJT appears to flip from one tactic to another based upon how he is perceived...my analysis proof of insecurity.
I have stated in multiple posts abhorrent acts of DJT & his band of sycophants, challenges my lexicon & Webster's Thesaurus to convey by sadness for those impacted...yes many will die, proof look to Africa & elsewhere. His daily blatherings & threatened tariffs has caused chaos in the financial markets & severely demissed countless (almost) individuals net worth.
Personal I am fortunate my investments are not a source of income...I am not in the 1% class yet comfortable & the loss on paper is huge!
So, I suspect should I travel to the US ...no intention for the remaining 4 yr's of his "rein of terror"...I would likely be flagged by CBS. Why, I it a high probability the US is monitoring all social media platforms for any negativity. How has the HLS & ICE for people to threaten with deportation & even sent letters to American born citizens.
I father was a landed immigrant upon serving in the US Navy, paternal grandparents were American citizens & also landed immigrants. My professional degree is from an American university.
It is my understanding that TMT studies have failed to replicate initial findings supporting TMT, leading to some skepticism within the field of psychology. But I’m not a psychologist, so can you direct me to some peer-reviewed research that supports TMT?
I would be happy to. The first link below is to a book written by the 3 psychology professors who came up with the theory about 30 years ago. It summarizes the findings of the more than 500 studies published in peer reviewed journals during those 30 years (and even more since the book was published in 2016). Hundreds of those studies were conducted by OTHER researchers, in a variety of cultures and countries. The references are all in the book if you want to look at original sources.
Yes, of course, there have been critiques, which is good, as that's how science progresses. What I like most about these former hippie shrinks is that they don't get defensive about it, and even use self-deprecating humor in their response, as you will see in the article in the second link, where they discuss criticisms and alternative theories starting on page 33. Since it also summarizes TMT research, you will find many, many citations at the end for studies from peer reviewed journals supporting TMT. (Unfortunately the "official" version is behind a paywall, and this is a corrected proof. It's easier to read if you download the free PDF text). If you want the official finalized copy, I bet Dr. Solomon would send you one. I once wrote to him with questions, which he not only kindly answered, but he sent me the full PDF text of a 300+ page textbook on Terror Management Theory. His email is: ssolomon@skidmore.edu
Your social circles are limited. I am an anti-vaxxer except for the DT after three. I have four graduate degrees, including a Ph.D. And a J.D. And severe, permanent vaccine injuries. My daughter, autistic from vaccines, both went to public school and was home-schooled. She learned a lot in homeschooling (Core Knowledge series pre-K-8), nothing in school.
Your four graduate degrees have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Unless they are medical degrees, or maybe an advanced degree in immunology or virology, why do you bring them up?
Cia claimed once that she knew more about infectious diseases than the CDC and the WHO.
Amazing, huh?
Her daughter has autism. But the reasons are not what she claims. There is a very strong genetic family background for autism with Cia herself, her parents, uncle and brother all being afflicted. They have a hereditary gene mutation of NRXN-1 , which modulâtes signalling between neurons in the brain. Mutations cause autism. CIA’s child in addition to that had severe hypoxia (oxygen deprivation) before and during birth because of a true knot in the umbilical cord.
But for reasons I can only attribute to a desperation to find something else to blame, she decided the autism was due to Thimerosal-containing Hep B vaccine given after birth causing an encephalitis. (The vaccine no longer contained thimerosal at the time of her delivery, and the Hep B vaccine does not cause encephalitis as a side effect).
Again, genes load the gun, vaccines pull the trigger. My mother reacted to the diphtheria vaccine with mercury, which changed her at four from normally developing to sillent, losing her words, cold, and undemonstrative. I screamed with vaccine encephalitis for days after my first DPT at three months old, which caused Aspergers. My brother beat his head on the bars of his kiddy coop for months while screaming, causing Aspergers in him. My father was loving, hard-working, and normal until a flu vaccine paralyzed him for the last three and a half years of his life.
No genetic condition causes screaming for four days and nights and then it stops, not occurring until the vacvine is given. The genetic condition is the background, but the symptoms of autism never manifest until the vaccine causes brain damage. That’s why not everyone reacts to vaccines with autism, and why the unvaxxed with such conditions never develop autism. It takes both genetic propensity AND the vaccine.
1. The genetic conditions causing autism cause it whether the children are vaccinated or not. Fact.
2. If as you claim all autism is triggered by vaccination, how do you explain autism in children who are not vaccinated?
3. You still don't understand what "encephalitis" is, despite several attempts over the years for me to educate you about this, as the cost of much of my time. Uncontrolled screaming for a few days in an infant doesn't equal encephalitis.
Uncontrolled screaming in an infant for three hours or longer with a high-pitched cri encéphalique IS the diagnostic marker for encephalitis. If a vaccine was given in the days or weeks before, it is vaccine encephalitis. Look it up. It may be that your eleven years of constantly pelting the vaccine-damaged with stones have not left you enough time for continuing professional education.
Not a fact. Curious, that, that only vaxxed people develop autism. That’s why pharma authorities have refused to do a large-scale study comparing autism rates in the vaxxed and unvaxxed. Those private studies done show autism only in the vaxxed. Autism rates continue to explode. I thought they would level off at a high rate and not rise when no new vaccines were added to the schedule. But then they added the dangerous Covid vacvines to the schedule for school, and BAM! Autism rates explode into the stratosphere again. While unvaxxed children remain healthy.
You need to give thought to how you will come down off the ledge. Your vaccine propaganda has become increasingly strident and laughable.
Two causes. I also told you I had spoken with Ed Yazbak about it. He said the mercury toxicity and the vacvine encephalitis were separate causes. Both devastating, both caused her autism. As well as the reaction to the DTaP booster at 18 months.
The commenter said that antivaxxers were ignorant and uneducated. I understand the issues involved in vaccination and that is all that is necessary. There is no concept involved which only “experts” are capable of understanding.
Actually most of medicine, both in terms of vaccine science and beyond, requires a level of expertise beyond what you seem to have. Which is why the process of becoming a fully board certified doctor is so lengthy and rigorous. Granted, Dr Offit does an outstanding job of putting complex topics into layman’s terms. But you seem to still seem to misunderstand these concepts, You absolutely do not understand the issues related to vaccines . All of your posts reflect this.
I assume that you have studied this anthology which studies how and why adjuvanted vaccines, espevially aluminum, cause autoimmune disease. Now explain to us why anyone desiring not to develop such disease should take a vaccine known to trigger it.
Geoghegan, S. et al. Frontiers in Microbiology REVIEW published: 17 March 2020 doi: 10.3389/fmicb.2020.00372
Aluminum is the third most abundant element in the environment, and the most abundant metal, and is found diffusely in soil, water,plants, and air. It is found in a variety of consumer products, as well as throughout the human food chain, and in many pharmaceuticals. In vaccines, aluminum is used as an adjuvant, a component that boosts immune response to the vaccine antigens. When adjuvants are used they allow for smaller amounts of vaccine to be given, as well as fewer doses. Aluminum has been used in a variety of vaccines, including hepatitis A and B, H. influenzae type b, and pneumococcal vaccines. As a vaccine component, aluminum has been extensively tested for safety as part of pre-licensure clinical trials. We know from studies examining the aluminum exposure of infants that the cumulative amount of aluminum from vaccines in the first 6 months of life is actually far less than that received from dietary sources, including both breast milk and formula (Keith et al., 2002; Mitkus et al., 2011). Both sources represent far less exposure than that represented by a regulatory minimal risk level (MRL), which is established by the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry. The safety of aluminum salts from vaccines, and from other sources, has also been established in studies examining blood and hair levels of aluminum in infants, and associated neurodevelopmental outcomes (Karwowski et al., 2018). Such studies have not proven a link between blood and hair concentrations of aluminum and receipt of vaccines, nor between blood and hair aluminum concentrations and neurodevelopmental outcomes.
Aluminum-containing adjuvants have been administered in billions of doses of vaccines over almost 100 years, mostly to children and adolescents. Although they have limitations, such as their relative inability to induce robust cell-mediated (Th1) immune
responses and a susceptibility to freezing, their record of safety and tolerability, along with their low cost, continues to make these adjuvants an attractive component of vaccines. As we discussed recently, aluminum adjuvants remain the gold standard against which new and exploratory adjuvants should be evaluated [5]. Recent advances in the biophysical characterization of aluminum- adjuvanted vaccines, including sophisticated high-throughput screening methods, facilitate the development of new vaccine formulations and enable quality control during the manufacturing process. Taking advantage of the high adsorptive capacity of aluminum adjuvants, they will increasingly be used as a platform to develop novel combination adjuvants able to drive the necessary immune responses to specific pathogens and for use in selected human populations. These developments will ensure
that aluminum-containing adjuvants remain a mainstay of vaccine formulations for the foreseeable future.
Rivera, L. et al. Immunogenicity and safety of three aluminium hydroxide adjuvanted vaccines with reduced doses of inactivated polio vaccine (IPV-Al) compared with standard IPV in young infants in the Dominican Republic: a phase 2, non-inferiority,
observer-blinded, randomised, and controlled dose investigation trial. www.thelancet.com/infection Vol 17 July 2017
Safety assessments
The infants were observed for 30 min after each
vaccination and immediate adverse events were recorded. A diary, thermometer, and ruler were given to parents for daily recording and measuring of injection site reactions, temperature reactions, and other solicited adverse events during the first 3 days (72 h)after vaccination, and for recording of any adverse event during the 7 days after vaccination. The solicited events in the diary were injection site redness or swelling reactions, axillary temperatures, persistent crying for more than 3 h, irritability, drowsiness, loss of appetite, vomiting, and diarrhoea. Parents also recorded use of concomitant medications. All adverse events were assessed for seriousness, relatedness to the vaccine, intensity, and outcome, and were transferred to the electronic case record form. Adverse events were coded by MedDRA, MSSO version 17.1. A data safety monitoring board comprised independent experts who advised the investigators and sponsors during the active phase of the trial and made recommendations regarding continuation, modification, or termination of the trial. The data safety monitoring board held two evaluation meetings. The recommendation from the board after both meetings was to continue the trial without modifications.
How? What is wrong with that comment specifically? And as far as “condescending” goes, just because something is beyond you does not make it condescending.
Conspiracy theories don’t differentiate based on education level. Plenty of very high academic achievers end up in cults. I find it has more to do with what one uses as a check on objective reality. One can get up in their head so far reality no longer applies.
Personally I find the scientific method and input from a variety of perspectives helpful.
Many are well educated and remarkable more for their egotism and entitlement than their ignorance. At least a couple of anti-vaxxers I know are educated and otherwise sophisticated
I have an undergraduate and graduate degree from two top 10 universities and I’m a member of Mensa. I am a firm anti-vaxxer for myself based on the science. I was in charge of a worldwide group at a fortune 100 company when six vaccines that could be given to any child in a single appointment were given to me for a vacation. I was disabled & lost my career. I’m still not fully recovered, 30 years later. Until you do the research like I have, you just do not know. And when someone’s livelihood depends upon a lie, it’s impossible for them to see the lie.
Wow. More ad hominem attacks. I also note that you and other other people attacking me are using pseudonyms.
And I couldn’t be vaccine injured and public about it, because that would endanger your concept of herd immunity right? I have to be vaccine injured and not say anything. To never warn anyone that vaccines have risks. That feels authentic.
The real first step in treating 'vaccine' addiction is when the individual admits that they have a problem and opens up to seeking treatment for the addiction.
Never graduated high school but still smart enough to homeschool their kids?
Make that make sense
You do know that statistically speaking home schooled kids routinely outperform their public school educated counterparts in reading writing and arithmetic
Thats of course bullshit. They only readon.we know they outperform their public school educated counterparts is because they are pithed against them in various competitions (spelling bees, math contests, book reading/reports)
In the U.S we rank.dead last in the U.N index for developed countries in readimg/writing/arithmetic. The overwhelming majority of our kids are enrolled in public schools
Again, stats are only as good as the underlying data. You don’t know about the homeschool kids that fail because they don’t get tested, and they don’t enter competitions.
Why are public school numbers so low? Because we test everyone and report all the data. If we want to make ourselves feel better, we could go back to cherry-picking the data, but it’s dishonest.
How would that be possible? To avoid getting tested? In most states its a crime (involving child protective services) if they arent either enrolled in a formal education program or a homeschool or private tutor.
And reading/writing/arithmetic is the basics required to function in this internet age society. Imagine trying to open a bank account, pay bills, buy a car, read manuals to operate equiptment, follow a youtube recipe without reading/writing/arithmetic
Look I will be anything you are a teacher and likely one for public school. My sister is one. And she gets very defensive when I remind her about the dismal performance of public school educated students. I remind her how the teachers union is overwhelmingly against vouchers ... they dont like competition because they are so bad at it
Nope, sorry. Most states provide exemptions or will accept testing proctored by accredited homeschool programs. My spouse was homeschooled and I homeschooled one of my kids for a year. No testing required, no state visits. Just a form I submitted to the state.
I agree basic education is necessary, that’s why I’m wary of homeschooling, vouchers, and most charter schools. They don’t have the oversight to verify what they claim they’re doing.
Your sister is probably defensive because she gets to see firsthand the problems these policies cause.
Homeschoolers perform brilliantly when they go to the university, and that is borne out in statistics. I had two homeschooled students in a universiy Spanish conversation class, and they were perfect students, hard-working, straight As, friendly, courteous, and cooperative, unlike the products of public schools. They were like Walton children.
What about the homeschool children that don’t get to go to university?
I know several adults who were homeschooled as kids. They’re perfectly functional adults, but all of them refuse to homeschool their own children because of their experiences.
So the best way to persuade you is to hide the kids that fail. No data=no proof, therefore homeschooling always delivers superior results. HSLDA has been on that game since the 1980s.
Like impulsive, reckless Ben Walton? Or like aimless, restless Jim-Bob? Or like Mary Ellen or Erin? They both slept around A LOT. Thus, your admiration.
I don’t think I’m in the right echo chambers to immediately identify Erin, Jim-Bob, or Mary from any random person with those first names. Although the slut shaming is a nice touch.
Defamatory lying cilia parker was praising homeschool greatness - Turning out fine Walton-like young adults. I was pointing out her selective memory (again).
"Homeschoolers perform brilliantly when they go to the university, and that is borne out in statistics. I had two homeschooled students in a universiy Spanish conversation class, and they were perfect students, hard-working, straight As, friendly, courteous, and cooperative, unlike the products of public schools. They were like Walton children."
Public School Enrollment: Around 49.4 million students are enrolled in public schools across the United States.
Academic Performance: Homeschooled students typically score 15 to 25 percentile points higher than public school students on standardized tests.
SAT Scores: On average, homeschooled students score 1190 on the SAT, compared to 1060 for public school students.
College Graduation Rates: About 67% of homeschooled students graduate from college, compared to 59% of public school graduates.
High School Graduation Rates: Public school students have a high school graduation rate of 91%, while the rate for homeschooled students is approximately 66.7%.
Standardized Test Performance: Over 78% of peer-reviewed studies indicate that homeschooled students perform statistically significantly better than their public school counterparts.
Higher Education Pursuit: Approximately 74% of homeschooled students go on to attend college, compared to only 44% of public school students.
Obviously they were smart enough to earn a medical degree and dedicated enough to go through multiple years of residency before passing board exams and earning their medical license
Only to have them stripped away for incompetence, disinformation, treating patients while actually reporting being actively infected with measles and having measles spots on their face, and flat out lying. A phenomenal crowd of characters, to say the least.
I'll text Offit and make sure that he gives it up - just as soon as you send me validated proof that you are not eating pet dogs and cats in Springfield.
Sure thing. Overwhelming (essentially unanimous) opinion of the entire medical community versus a YouTube video shared by a random person on the internet. Tough call as to who to go with.
Measles can kill your child! It almost killed my sister in 1953. If the vaccine wasn't working then why did we go for so long without seeing any deaths from measles. Why all of a sudden have we seen THREE deaths, two of them children? It's because children are not being vaccinated! That's not rocket science...it's common sense.
Pierre Kory, in addition to being a quack, has NO pediatric experience whatsoever beyond doing a Peds rotation as a third year med student several decades ago. Why in the world would he be considered an “expert” in managing a pediatric patient with respiratory failure???
Well done! I would add Dr. Kory was stripped of his board certifications by the American Board of Internal Medicine for unprofessional conduct. But at least he did complete post graduate medical education unlike Dr. Malone whose post graduate medical education consists of a one year pathology internship only. Dr. Malone is neither board certified nor board eligible in any clinical area. Although he does hold an active license in Maryland, his CV does not provide any evidence of clinical activity, ever. An MD with only one year of internship and no clinical experience is not qualified to opine as an expert on any clinical matter.
And even prior to losing his board certification, he had no pediatric experience whatsoever. Nothing beyond what he would have seen as a third year medical student in his Peds rotation.
No. Actually stripped by his peers. I am licensed in 14 states and serve as a consultant to multiple state boards. Revoking a license is a big deal and requires irrefutable evidence of unprofessional conduct of such severity as to constitute harm to the public. The pharmaceutical industry has nothing to do with it. This is a physician led process. There is a extensive due process and physicians are provided ample oppportunity to defend themselves and participate in corrective action. We don't take away licenses, medical staff privileges or board certification without giving our colleagues every opportunity to course correct. Physicians are obligated by ethics, morals and law to practive according to current best evidence. Some physicians have difficulty discerning what current best evidence is. That's where the antivax physicians go astray. They are like the general public in that regard, unable to discern quality evidence from junk science.
Dr. Parker unfortunately your degrees have left you without the factual understanding your daughter does NOT have autism because she received any vaccine.
Another essay that is long on scapegoating but light on solutions to address the root cause of declining public trust in the US vaccine approval, recommendation, and surveillance system and in the medical-industrial complex in general. No mention of the large measles outbreak in Ontario, which is similar in size to that of Texas. No discussion of why Mennonites and Amish reject vaccines and other modern contrivances long before RFKJr appeared on the scene. Attacking “anti-vaxxers” (an unfortunate slur) is not helping. When >80% of the public is rejecting the full CDC vaccine schedule, what is an “anti-vaxxer”?
Yet again you are quick on the draw to get in one of your “tone trolling” comments on the discussion forum.
Nobody can deny that RFKjr and his antivaccine organisation CHS have been pivotal in influencing parents throughout the country not to vaccinate their children over the last couple of decades.
Deflection of accountability, responsibility and blame is what he does best.
Have you a citation for your claim that 80% of the public are against the childhood vax schedule? Last I heard it was a small minority. Thank you.
I’m certain that parents who just wish to hold fire on yet another Covid booster for their kids would not be regarded as antivaxers by reasonable doctors (or anyone).
An antivaxer is someone who not only rejects certain vaccines but spreads disinformation about them with the direct or indirect intent to dissuade others from getting vaccinated.
By that definition, only a small percentage of individuals merit the antivaxer label.
The definition might encompass those opposed to “vaccination” as a policy, rather than just specific individual vaccine, but the more you broaden out the definition then the greater the proportion of people who that definition applies to.
You were asked for a citation for your statement that >80% of the public is rejecting the full CDC vaccine schedule, and you only responded that less than 20% of US children and adults are getting annual “covid boosters” as recommended by the CDC. Does this, then, indicate that you have none?
80% not getting the covid boosters is a de facto rejection of the full schedule. If they cannot trust that every recommended vaccine is necessary, how is it possible to know which are really necessary and which are not?
Dr. Marine 👍 for being current on the unfortunate outbreak of measles in my home province. You may not be aware the cases in Ontario are linked to cases in New Brunswick... fall 2024 gathering
BEFORE RFKJr releases what is sure to be a bogus discovery of “THE” cause of autism, maybe it'd be good to produce a massive, high-school-education-accessible and sufficiently entertaining to hold the attention of people who are otherwise drawn to influencers are heart-string tugging accounts by (often, anonymous or sock-puppet) moms
It's a LOT easier to debunk the sort of fraud and lies you anticipate BEFORE it gets attributed as an official understanding.
I think it's time for experts such as yourselves to partner with experts in modern communications. No dissing of your current approach, which I think is very well tailored to your current audience. But we skeptical (!), science-aware individuals are a minority
It’s all the same propaganda strategy no matter what this Administration is selling…
Lie, when cornered with or shown facts, they create another conspiracy as bait for the base to bite on, to avoid psychological humiliation.
Humiliation and insecurity is what brought them to maga in the first place. MAGA tells the least secure and the most toxic Americans that THEY are always right and everyone else is wrong.
It’s a mental shortcut to “superiority” without effort. Just blame large ambiguous groups for personal failures or missed opportunities.
“I didn’t become an astronaut bc of DEI” Never mind that they put no effort into gaining ANY of the required education or do necessary to become an astronaut, it’s all someone else’s fault that the maga is living paycheck to paycheck.
Second guessing or even questioning unleashes their suppressed emotional anxiety, and taps into their extreme insecurity, fearing they’ll be kicked out of the club and labeled a traitor.
This applies to everything! Qanon people proclaim all medical Dr’s and Scientists as corrupt or Deep State which opens the door to feelings of superiority. They now have “special knowledge” and no Doctor or Scientist with all of their experience and study, can top those YouTube videos boosting them with excess dopamine.
All of their personal insecurities melt away with one ridiculously inaccurate meme or post.
I think one day this phenomenon will be studied labeled a psychological or emotional addiction, and with children suffering it’s obviously equally as dangerous as any other extreme addiction.
Thank you Dr. O! As the child of a parent who suffered from the effects of polio his entire life (wheelchair, lung and heart issues), keep preaching about vaccines! I'm so tired of this anti-vax nonsense. It makes me, well, furious!
You are losing the communication battle and surprinsingly have not noticed it. You just keep repeating the mantra of all vaccines are safe and effective. The Sun cannot be covered with one finger, and you look so cute trying harder everyday.
Shouldnt you change the strategy? Keeping this same stubborn attitude and pretending that your pharma stained credentials are enough is not a good idea. Ignoring thousands of families vaccine injured is cruel. You are perverse.
There are nuances here…all vaccines currently licensed appear to be safe to a standard of safety that is acceptable for other medical drugs and products. And nothing is completely safe, not even drinking water, breathing air, or having a bath. All those things have killed people, but would ordinarily be considered “safe”.
All licensed vaccines have demonstrable efficacy…not 100% (no vaccine can measure up to those standards), but sufficient efficacy to merit their clinical use.
You have reached an important point. For families vaccine injured, as mine, procedures related to vaccine use approval have been defective. Hopefully this will change soon. We all want safe and effective vaccines, right now we dont have them.
Were you truly “vaccine injured” or do you just hate your autistic kid? I only ask because, as someone on the spectrum, I see this conflation far too often.
So, yes. Your kid has an autism diagnosis, and instead of learning and trying to understand your kid, you’d rather blame a vaccine for why they’re “broken.” I hope they learn to love themselves in time.
I hope you are able to use your brain sometime in the future. As can be seen, it is still brand new.
Just for your reference, after a regressive ASD level 3 we have been able with deep love consisting in long term therapy, proper diet and permanent follow up to get a new dx of ASD level 1. I dont expect you to understand this. Its for the rest of the community.
Sure Mike. I have a documentary. We as a family open our hearts there and present our case. My only request is that if I share it with you, you show respect afterwards. It is 29 minute long. You tell me
Sir what is perverse is to use the unsubstantiated label of "stained pharma credentials" without factual evidence that disputes sound science.
Please provide the published evidence of your stated "thousands of families injured by vaccines"?
Qualifier any family that received payment from a JFK Jr litigation or similar questionable legal action would not be proof of vaccine injury, simply a settlement.
Sir our family has been vaccine injured. And to know others you can take a look to the Vaxxed documentary. Majority of deniers state that the people interviewed there are simply silly actors, but that doesnt change reality. If you have the time, I can share with you our family documentary with the recorded evidence.
Btw, this comment is NOT brought to you by Merck 'Sparking Discovery, Elevating Humanity'
Somebody needs to tell the anti-vaxxers to get their story straight. Either measles are "no big deal," OR "they" have "weaponized" the virus to be more deadly. It can't be both. That's what happens when you lie: you eventually run into the brick wall of reality and you are forced to either admit the truth or concoct more and more outrageous claims that are contradictory. They won't lose their "true believers," but those who are merely vaccine hesitant will see through it.
Believing a virus may have been weaponized isn’t ludicrous when you realize the virus that causes COVID-19 was itself a weaponized virus. By the government. And the government denied it for years.
(If this is news to you, I’m sorry to be the one to break it to you.)
Does nobody understand complexity anymore? Or are we all on opposite sides of extremism?
I'm not sure if you believe the Chinese government or the US government "weaponized" Covid-19, and if so, whether intentionally to use as a bioweapon, or through gain of function research. In any case, no, I do not believe the Republican version issued in their report because their conclusions were unsupported by empirical evidence. I have a strange tendency to rely more on scientists than politicians when it comes to such matters, and they say, "Of the three possibilities — natural, accidental, or deliberate — the most scientific evidence yet identified supports natural emergence." (See article for the actual evidence if interested, which I suspect you are not.) But context now is different; the claim Kory makes is that MEASLES is being weaponized. By whom? ("They"). For what purpose? Kill all the unvaccinated? But if they "weaponized" it and changed the virus, how can they be sure all the vaccinated people (including themselves) are safe? The vaccine may not protect against the "weaponized" version. Oh, I know. They made a new vaccine and already secretly gave it to all of us pro-vaccine folks. I will agree with you that their ramblings are certainly complex!
What matters going forward? I agree with the scientists that "We need to plan ahead so that scientists get rapid access to key geographic sites, open scientific exchange, and full transparency...these steps are the keys to...preparing the world for the future outbreaks that are certain to occur." What are we doing instead? Cutting funding for all such endeavors so that we will be totally unprepared for the next pandemic when it occurs. Because, well, you know, we don't need all that scientific crap! We can just eat "unprocessed healthy food" like we did for millennia and we'll be just fine, even though the average life expectancy will go back to 30-40 years like it was through more than 99% of our time here in earth. You go there; I'll stay here, thanks.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2305081
The preponderance of evidence points to a lab leak from gain of function research funded by the US government.
If gain of function research isn’t for weaponization, what is it for? I’m sure you can come up with many conjectures. But conjectures aren’t evidence. It’s just justification for something we don’t know the answer to. Occam’s razor suggests we must conclude that viruses made virulent in a lab were weaponized.
And when this is secretly going on, by definition we don’t know who “they” are.
Let’s say a bomb hit us and we don’t know who did it. You’re trying to argue that because we don’t know exactly who dropped the bomb that it’s illogical to worry about more bombs unless you know who “they” are.
The real issue here is that governments are weaponizing viruses and they are leaking them (purposely or not). This isn’t conjecture. That should scare the crap out of us way more than fearing some new wild virus is going to come along.
Let’s not lose the forest for the trees. Distrust in government is absolutely 100% warranted. And Wuhan leak is just one example.
Regarding the lab leak theory, I wonder why lab leak truther Saar Wilf lost his own $100,000 debate on the issue? For people who are authentically curious about the evidence and are open minded enough to hear what the evidence is, I recommend listening to an interview of Peter Miller in first link (he won the debate by judges selected by BOTH debaters). He didn't initially have any idea where it came from, but he wanted to know, so he did what smart people do; he hunkered down and studied every piece of the evidence and then used logical and statistical (but not easily manipulated bayesian) reasoning. The article in second link is also interesting but if you have time for just one and want to know the evidence, pick the video. Worth the listen if you really want to hear the evidence. Or you can listen to all 18 hours of the debate! :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTxgq8fcPpU
https://protagonist-science.medium.com/lableak-truther-loses-100-000-in-his-own-debate-0c3930ccd443
I stand corrected. I thought the evidence for a lab leak theory was stronger than the wet market theory. From a Bayesian perspective based on the available evidence, it appears the wet market origin theory (although not proven) has the preponderance of evidence. Thank you for the eye opening video link.
Speaking of Bayesian reasoning, after our conversation I asked standard ChatGPT (no other input fed to it) the following:
> Many parents of autistic children swear their child regressed soon after a vaccine. What other examples in history (besides vaccines) can you find of people who are insistent over decades that a medical intervention has been harming people, but the medical industry denies it?
The ChatGPT response was too long for a comment, so I just decided to publish a post and link it here:
https://open.substack.com/pub/nic1692593/p/discussion-of-medical-denial-and?r=auwxs&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true
Thanks for the congenial and respectful discussion. It's a breath of fresh air.
You're welcome, and I hope I was respectful. I know I can get snarky sometimes, and I really don't like that side of me. Also, congratulations on being the only person whose mind I have ever changed on this topic! At least, I think I did. Given the link to your own article, I'm not actually sure but will assume you are being truthful, in which case, you are the rare truly open-minded person. I agree it can never be definitively proven without China's help, and for reasons pointed out by Miller, that's not going to happen. That's why I think it's crucial to be prepared for pandemics from BOTH potential sources, and currently, I'm with Miller that H5N1 is truly frightening and we should prepare/plan/prevent but we are going in the opposite direction.
As for parents reporting symptoms of autism shortly after vaccination, yes, as a psychologist who has evaluated MANY children with autism, I'm well aware of that, and I can understand why some people would believe there's a connection, but as we all know, correlation is not causation, and in this case, the correlation isn't even that strong. Research suggests that this type of autism (regressive autism), occurs in only 20-40% of people with ASD, while the other 60-80% of individuals with ASD have early symptoms, prior to vaccination. I personally have diagnosed a child at 6 months, but kids are often not brought in for evaluations until quite some time after onset, as parents are often understandably in denial and think their child will "catch up," and in the old days, their pediatrician also told them as much. It should also be noted that developmental regression in children has been reported for over 100 years (since long before vaccines), and that
it occurs in other developmental disorders besides autism (link below).
Also, autism occurs in children who were never vaccinated, so even if vaccines were a trigger for a small subset (which seems unlikely given no difference in overall incidence between vaccinated and unvaccinated), there must be other potential triggers. My bet is on a virus, the bane of humans' existence! I agree parents should always be respected. Thanks for the discourse - it's been interesting! :)
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0010945223002186#:~:text=Developmental regression describes when a,such as Rett syndrome and
Well, I kind of agree with you, as I DO distrust the current US administration and majority party in the Senate and House. Many (most?) scientists disagree with your assessment about what the "preponderance" of the evidence supports, but I agree that lab leaks COULD happen, which is why I (and the scientists in the article) said planning and preventative actions are essential to prevent BOTH animal-human spillovers (which CAN happen), AND leaks from labs. But again, we are doing the OPPOSITE and therefore will be even less prepared next time than last time, not to mention shortening the timeline to its initiation. I'm still thoroughly confused about the motivations of ANYBODY who would weaponize measles, and still wondering how they could ensure it would only kill their perceived enemies. Must be some really evil geniuses. 😱
This retired health law attorney read your comment several times and cannot understand your logic. I do not understand the contradiction that you see. Do you mean that vaccines have been intentionally weaponized and that the anti-vaxxers are a result of this weaponization?
Seriously. I'm not a lawyer, but I can see what Sobshrink is saying. He is pointing out that AntiVaxxers are advancing 2 Hypotheses which contradict each other. (Which they clearly do). So he/she is saying "if this is an honest discussion, which hypothesis do you believe?"..
My hypothesis is the 'vaxxers' are scared of dandelions spreading in their lawns. This irrational prejudice has spread to invisible particles they believe are infectious. You can tell it is dandelions because when they draw "the 'virus" it looks like a dandelion flower. They could add some dandelion flower to their diets to help relieve the 'vaccine' addiction. Dandelion has antidepressive effects:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1lYtk16UMQ
Huh?
Ok “Samantha” 🤪
Donna, when I first read your comment shortly after you posted it, I didn't have time to respond. I was about to respond to it now but I see it's been edited into a totally different comment/question. I'm not sure why you changed it but apparently you still don't see the contradiction that seems glaring to me and the 17 folks who liked what I wrote. Let me see if I can make it more clear. Dr. Offit summarized the stated positions of 2 prominent anti-vaxxers (RFK, Jr. and Dr. Kory). These 2 messages are contradictory: RFK, Jr. has made many comments DOWNPLAYING the measles outbreak, while Dr. Kory said measles are SO bad that "they" must have WEAPONIZED it. (Who is "they?") Kory's exact words were: “Do you want to know the real story on this case? Several of us believe that they weaponized the measles virus—on purpose! She got sicker from this measles probably because they monkeyed with the virus.” So it appears Dr. Kory thinks measles are deadly because some un-named person or group weaponized the virus, while RFK, Jr. thinks measles are not "that bad." I never saw a more glaring contradiction. If you had those two men on the witness stand testifying for Big Pharma and you were cross examining them, would you not pounce on that?
It's a travesty numerous individuals have obtained a medical degree, apparently licenced to practice 🤔 ...they truly require remedial practice yet they have lost or never grasp basic immunology 😞
JJF Phm 🇨🇦
Certain antivaxers claim that measles is harmless. But the same antivaxers seem to support another narrative from Pierre Kory (a delicensed doctor) that the recent deaths were from a “weaponised” version of the virus, and that this measles has been bioengineered to be more lethal.
The two narratives are contradictory.
Kory still has his license and continues to practice medicine.
In August 2023, Kory had his board certifications revoked by the American Board of Internal Medicine for "spreading false or inaccurate medical information".
I am aware of that. The certification is different than a medical license. He still has his license from The Physician Medical Licensing Board.
I am unaware of the existence of a "Physician Medical Licensing Board".
I am in the UK.
As far as I understood it, board certification is required for a physician to practice.
Measles is the most intense of the childhood diseases. Most children do fine with the most basic care. Some experience complications. 450 deaths out of three and a half million cases in 1960 in the US. I would rather nurse it carefully and avoid the vomplications. But having natural immunity to measles is valuable, and we should let measles come back.
Measles has not been weaponized at this time. After bioengineered Covid, it is not a ridiculous idea, but the over a thousand measles patients in this outbreak have had normal cases and recovered normally, except for the Mennonite girls who had incompetent doctors.
I had a reply I was writing disappear. Starting with a discussion of mycoplasma pneumonia having become common in Texas schoolchildren since spring 2024. I’m tired, and cannot try to reconstruct my comment now. Fortunately this link was still a finger’s touch away. To be honest, I think that you whisk my comments away.
https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2024/10/29/nx-s1-5162531/mycoplasma-pneumonia-kids-health
I understand the comment perfectly.
Very confused how this is how you read the comment. How in the world did you conclude this from that comment?
Chris, I'm confused about your confusion. In any case, maybe it will clear things up if you read my response to Donna below.
My response was being made to Donna. I am extremely confused how she read your comment and somehow deduced that you were stating that the measles was a weaponized bioweapon
Oops. Sometimes I look at the colored dots too fast! Sorry and thanks!
Did you read the entire article before posting this? Maybe you missed part of it?
I’ve never been more devastated in all my 30 years of practice. I can’t figure out what they are trying to gain, from RFK on down? I assume it’s power. It’s not wanting to be told what to do. The leaders fuel the parents with fear and paranoia. I just don’t understand what these leaders really gain out of it. I suppose we all want a cause to stand for. Why they would choose this and believe their own lies is beyond me.
I don’t know about the rest of the anti-vaxers, but for RFK jr the benefit is profits in the millions for referring people to trial lawyers suing vaccine makers.
And feeding his narcissism. And tax-free donations to "Children's Health Defense," which paid him several million dollars over a few years ($$$$). And the book sales ($$), speaking engagements ($$$$), adulation as Saviour, etc.
Here are excerpts from a November 2023 New York Times article:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/16/us/rfk-jr-finances.html
By Susanne Craig Published Nov. 16, 2023 Updated Aug. 29, 2024
In 2021, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. earned more than $500,000 as the chairman and top lawyer at Children’s Health Defense, the nonprofit organization that he has helped build into a leading spreader of anti-vaccine falsehoods and a platform for launching his independent bid for the White House.
The compensation was almost three times as high as the amount paid to the organization’s president, but it was not Mr. Kennedy’s biggest source of income. Neither was his family’s fabled wealth. Instead, most of his earnings around the same time came from law firms — a total of $7 million for lending them his name, connections and expertise to sue major companies.
Throughout his long public life, Mr. Kennedy has cultivated an image as a man committed to a greater good, the blessing and burden of belonging to one of America’s most storied political families. Whether cleaning up rivers as an environmentalist or railing against the purported dangers of inoculations, he has said he is driven by his family’s legacy of civic duty and sacrifice.
He built his presidential run around similar themes, even as his cousin dismissed the campaign as a “vanity project” and other relatives disavowed his beliefs. On the trail, Mr. Kennedy has delivered a populist message of anti-corporate rhetoric and debunked science while invoking a powerful lineage: his uncles, former President John F. Kennedy and Senator Ted Kennedy, and his father, Senator Robert F. Kennedy.
------------
But an examination of Mr. Kennedy’s finances by The New York Times, including public filings and almost two dozen interviews as well as tax returns and other documents not previously made public, showed that while he appears to believe in the causes he champions, they have also had a practical benefit: His crusades, backed by the power of his name, have earned him tens of millions of dollars.
Behind much of his public career has been a relentless private hustle: board positions and advisory gigs, side deals with law firms, book contracts and an exhausting schedule of paid speeches, once upward of 60 a year by his own count.
While most people have to work, Mr. Kennedy did not always settle for the six-figure salary he was earning in positions with nonprofits. For decades, he has entwined his loftier missions with opportunities for enrichment. In addition to his salary at Children’s Health Defense, for instance, he stands to profit personally from lawsuits, including against the pharmaceutical giant Merck over a common vaccine for children.
When Mr. Kennedy was still best known as an environmentalist, he met Alan Salzman, an investor in clean technology companies, and was intrigued: Mr. Kennedy wanted to find alternatives to carbon-based energy, “which I think is the biggest enemy to American democracy and the environment,” he said in a 2012 deposition reviewed by The Times.
“And I also saw it as an opportunity to make some money for my family,” he continued.
Mr. Kennedy would earn millions of dollars over at least eight years from work connected to Mr. Salzman’s venture capital firm, VantagePoint, including promoting a project that other environmentalists opposed.
In an interview, Mr. Kennedy said that he was proud of giving his family a good life while promoting his causes.
“I have been able to use the various gifts I’ve been given — education, the contacts and the value of a name that a generation in my family put a lot of effort into enhancing and retaining its value,” he said. “I’m grateful that I’ve been given those gifts and that I am able to do well by doing good.”
His campaign said in a statement that he had “never put a need or desire to make money ahead of his values and moral compass.”
Recently, Mr. Kennedy’s presidential bid has gained some traction. In a poll conducted last month by The Times and Siena College, 24 percent of voters in battleground states said they would support Mr. Kennedy in a theoretical matchup between him, President Biden and former President Donald J. Trump, the leading Republican candidate.
In the campaign, Mr. Kennedy has cast himself as an heir to his family’s mystique. Yet what has at times looked from the outside like the glamorous life of a dynastic prince has occasionally been underwritten by others.
Wealthy friends were behind the purchase of the home Mr. Kennedy used on the family compound on Cape Cod, records show. He had an arrangement with a major environmental nonprofit group to pay for his children to accompany him on work trips, and he accepted a free Lexus as part of a promotional event for green vehicles.
“The Kennedys’ wealth is inextricably intertwined with people’s impression of the Kennedys — and that isn’t a surprise when you think their grandfather amassed one of America’s biggest fortunes when his kids were young,” said Fredrik Logevall, a historian at Harvard who is writing a two-volume biography of John F. Kennedy.
“But two generations later,” Professor Logevall said, “some family members have more of the money than others.”
____________________________________________
A Shadow Career
In addition to his jobs with nonprofits and his law firms, Mr. Kennedy turned to paid speeches as a big source of income. He said he could charge as much as $250,000 for a talk overseas, and at least $25,000 for others.
By the time he entered into divorce proceedings with Ms. Richardson Kennedy, he was on the road at a frenetic pace, at one point giving more than 60 speeches a year. (Ms. Richardson Kennedy died by suicide in 2012, before the divorce was final.)
If he wasn’t around enough to put in a traditional workweek at any one organization, his name and natural charisma certainly raised their profiles and drew celebrities and deep-pocketed benefactors to their events, including the actors Pierce Brosnan, Alec Baldwin and Ms. Hines.
At the same time, Mr. Kennedy’s high-profile environmental work opened the door to a lucrative shadow career as a corporate director and consultant. His reputation, experience and wide network of contacts had value: He could make introductions, offer advice or help secure financing.
A turning point had come in 2005. Mr. Kennedy gave a speech at the home of Mr. Salzman, the managing partner of VantagePoint Capital Partners, then one of California’s most prominent venture capital firms. It was an early investor in Tesla, the electric carmaker, and was known for backing companies that were offering solutions to the planet’s environmental problems.
Mr. Salzman hired Mr. Kennedy in 2007, initially paying him $100,000 a year to consult on potential investments. “He was obviously passionate about clean water, but also well-connected and very knowledgeable,” Mr. Salzman told The Times.
In 2009 Mr. Kennedy became a partner, earning $340,000 at VantagePoint, in addition to his other sources of income. Two years later his salary had jumped to more than $750,000, records show.
THEN - MONEY STARTS REALLY ROLLING IN
Read the paywalled piece - clear your cookies and cache.
🙄
Fear is a revenue generator. See Fox News, and RFKs anti-vaccine litigation business. They don’t care about the collateral damage, just the dollars they can put in their own pockets.
I’m surprised that you’re surprised. RFK wants public acknowlegment and show the proof that vaccines cause autism, as in my daughter’s case. I’m sure parents will be free to choose or refuse the vaccines they want to, but all vaccine mandates will be ended, and honest information about the dangers of vaccine reactions, including autism, allergic, and autoimmune disease, will be published and discussed. And careful records will be kept of outcomes, and everyone will watch closely. I think within a few years, most people will refuse all or nearly all vaccines.
And our kids will die from preventable diseases.
Are you seriously that oblivious to all of the deaths? Do you not recall the overflowing morgues in NY? I don’t think those families appreciate your calling this a cold. And to think that you believe that thousands and thousands of doctors and researchers have maintained some huge conspiracy against you and the public is where the irrational fear is.
Phil is a useless fucking troll, fully committed to the bit of repeating the same absolute nonsense on every evidence-based science post on infectious disease, vaccines, and/or public health policy he has a Google alert set up for.
Phil is happy as a pig in shit so long as he's wasting your time by wasting his.
It's no coincidence that Phil weighs in so soon after Pope Francis's death.
“fully documented” lol you’re an idiot - just a pile of dogshit on the sidewalk it annoys people to have to step around and really annoys them if they accidentally step in
If I'm wearing my dog shit shoes, I don't mind stepping right into that steaming Phil-pile, then smearing him all over my local GNC.
The 1,000-Bed Comfort Was Supposed to Aid New York. It Has 20 Patients.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/nyregion/ny-coronavirus-usns-comfort.html
# Minnesota lawmakers say coronavirus deaths could be inflated by 40% after reviewing death certificates
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/coronavirus-death-certificates-minnesota-inflated
# Grand County Coroner Raises Concern On Deaths Among COVID Cases
https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/12/15/grand-county-covid-deaths/
# 'The numbers are skewed': Colorado officials warn of inflated COVID death statistics
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/numbers-are-skewed-colorado-officials-warn-inflated-covid-deaths
# Massive Pandemic Data Fraud Exposed: 40% of ‘Covid Deaths’ Were Fabricated
https://slaynews.com/news/global-pandemic-data-fraud-exposed-covid-deaths-fabricated/
# There Is No Pandemic
www.lewrockwell.com/2021/02/no_author/there-is-no-pandemic
On the contrary, valid research (not the back of an envelope wittering from “law makers”) conducted by epidemiologists and experts in public health indicates that covid deaths were UNDER-REPORTED by 35%.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7734715/
COVID-19 vaccines and adverse events of special interest: A multinational Global Vaccine Data Network (GVDN) cohort study of 99 million vaccinated individuals
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X24001270?via%3Dihub
Yep, Covid vaccines do have a handful of extremely rare side effects. We know this.
Thanks for confirming how rare they are, Aldous!
COVID-19 vaccines and adverse events of special interest: A multinational Global Vaccine Data Network (GVDN) cohort study of 99 million vaccinated individuals
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X24001270?via%3Dihub
I'll bet you didn't even read this study:
"Our analyses inherently involve heterogeneity in data collection, quality, and reporting standards across countries. These differences in healthcare infrastructure and surveillance systems can introduce bias and affect the comparability of results. The participating sites across the eight countries implemented varied vaccination strategies, including vaccine types, dosing schedules, and prioritization of vaccine recipients. Moreover, the multi-country analyses are susceptible to population confounding factors, such as differences in pre-existing health conditions, genetic factors, ethnic profiles, and behavioural patterns, which was not possible to adjust for in our analysis. We consider our approach suitable for application in large datasets representing average populations. However, age- and sex-specific historic background rates that are not adjusted for factors like prior disease may not provide a suitable comparison, for example, in the early stages of a vaccination campaigns where people with co-morbidities were vaccinated prior to other population groups."
"The involvement of researchers and data sources from diverse regions of the world promotes inclusivity, reduces potential biases, and fosters collaboration in the pursuit of a shared public health goal. While our study confirmed previously identified rare safety signals following COVID-19 vaccination and contributed evidence on several other important outcomes, further investigation is warranted to confirm associations and assess clinical significance."
Make that "RARE" and unconfirmed findings needing further investigation to reduce bias, & confounding. Try reading the actual study before posting it.
Thank you for correcting Phil B... what is "a porn narrative"... rhetorical I don't care
JJF Phm 🇨🇦
documentation please "overflowing morgues in NY" ?!?!?!?!?!
You have forgotten about the many cities that were forced to use refrigerated semi trailers to hold the dead because their morgues were full?
https://youtu.be/NPHsEghjfNo?si=H6LPq6s5nOxwpZjV
But those were vaccine deaths! Even in 2020, before vaccine rollouts. And ivermectin-deficiencies. And the doctors killed them with ventilators for profit (and fun).
# Minnesota lawmakers say coronavirus deaths could be inflated by 40% after reviewing death certificates
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/coronavirus-death-certificates-minnesota-inflated
# Grand County Coroner Raises Concern On Deaths Among COVID Cases
https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/12/15/grand-county-covid-deaths/
# 'The numbers are skewed': Colorado officials warn of inflated COVID death statistics
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/numbers-are-skewed-colorado-officials-warn-inflated-covid-deaths
# Massive Pandemic Data Fraud Exposed: 40% of ‘Covid Deaths’ Were Fabricated
https://slaynews.com/news/global-pandemic-data-fraud-exposed-covid-deaths-fabricated/
# There Is No Pandemic
www.lewrockwell.com/2021/02/no_author/there-is-no-pandemic
Valid research conducted by epidemiologists and experts in public health indicates that covid deaths were UNDER-REPORTED by 35%.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7734715/
wow man . . . a "youtube" video constitutes documentation? . . . really?
If it verifies the measures necessary to keep the corpses of Covid victims cold because the morgues were full, then yes, it comprises evidence.
A YouTube video of a news report by the CBS flagship station in New York.
Oh for goodness sakes, do some research before you go spouting off your conspiracy theories. Fauci absolutely did NOT create the virus. Good grief!
There are a few completely deranged conspiracy nutters who infest these forums…you just met one of them.
Rubbish!
None of your various human papillomaviruses, nor your herpes encephalitis, were “Fauci created.”
You did - just above.
Now you're flip-flopping - claiming your papillomaviruses and HSV1 and HSV2 weren't the Fauci revisions ...
The “cold” that killed 1.2 million Americans.
https://open.substack.com/pub/petermcculloughmd/p/new-study-covid-19-vaccine-millions?r=wgq8&utm_medium=ios
I agree that Covid was very serious with 2% mortality in the US in symptomatic cases 2019-end 2021. It surprises me that many have forgotten and deny this. But that was because it was bioengineered to be noth very virulent and readily transmitted. The disease was often very serious and disabling, even fatal, and triggered disabling long Covid in millions, including me. Then the vaccine turned out to be even more dangerous than the disease, killing millions outright with SADS, or disabling them (us) with long Vaccine. Both the disease and the vaccine were a criminal con job. The vaccine(s) may have been somewhat effective until Omicron, but after that no longer were.
Nothing serious about Covid. It was FALSE positive PCR tests coupled with agressive relabeling of causes of death.
Basically social engineering on a world wide scale with massive collobaration with W.H.O affiliates like GAVI and BMGF
The virus (through gain of function research) was developed after the vaccine.
It mirrors the plot of Mission Impossible 2 where a drug company developes a vaccine (blairfone) then the virus (chimera) to profit from a pandemic
#Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html
#CDC withdraws fraudulent PCR testing protocol that was used to falsify covid
“positives” to push the plandemic
https://services.austintexas.gov/edims/document.cfm?id=364945
#22 Scientists Publish Paper Claiming The PCR Test Is “Useless” For Detecting COVID-19 Cases
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/12/no_author/22-scientists-publish-paper-claiming-the-pcr-test-is-useless-for-detecting-covid-19-cases/
#Portuguese court rules PCR tests are unreliable, unlawful
https://naturalnews.com/2020-12-03-portuguese-court-pcr-tests-unreliable-quarantine-unlawful.html
#Florida Forcing Labs to Report Number of PCR Test Cycles—Game Changer
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/12/jon-rappoport/florida-forcing-labs-to-report-number-of-pcr-test-cycles-game-changer
Quack, quack!
Imagine calling doctors that went through the same accredited medical school /residency and board certification process as Offit; quacks
Clown world
Have you looked at New Zealand, Australia or Canadian data on this?
Would you prefer those data to be striated with stripes or with grooves?
# In Colorado, They're Counting Gun Shot Fatalities as COVID Deaths
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2020/12/17/in-colorado-theyre-counting-gun-shot-fatalities-as-covid-deaths-n2581730
# Ontario (Canada) Admits Labelling Deaths As COVID When They’re Not A Result of COVID
www.lewrockwell.com/2020/12/no_author/ontario-canada-admits-labelling-deaths-as-covid-when-theyre-not-a-result-of-covid/
# In March, US Deaths from COVID-19 Totaled Less Than 2 Percent of All Deaths
www.lewrockwell.com/2020/04/ryan-mcmaken/in-march-us-deaths-from-covid-19-totaled-less-than-2-percent-of-all-deaths/
# Minnesota lawmakers say coronavirus deaths could be inflated by 40% after reviewing death certificates
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/coronavirus-death-certificates-minnesota-inflated
# Grand County Coroner Raises Concern On Deaths Among COVID Cases
https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/12/15/grand-county-covid-deaths/
# 'The numbers are skewed': Colorado officials warn of inflated COVID death statistics
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/numbers-are-skewed-colorado-officials-warn-inflated-covid-deaths
# Massive Pandemic Data Fraud Exposed: 40% of ‘Covid Deaths’ Were Fabricated
…And they’re eating the cats in Springfield.
And the vaccines are "safe and effective"
🙈🙉🙊👌
Pretty much, yeah.
Have you looked at "Excess Death Statistics"? For say the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand?
Please spare us the details of your pornography obsession, Phil.
The anti vaxers that I personally know, never graduated high school and homeschool their kids. Not the brightest stars.
To be clear, I'm very pro-vaccine, as my comments here always reflect. I'm also a psychologist. I don't think it's helpful to disparage people who disagree with you, but I will admit that I have done it because sometimes it's very hard not to! I know some bright people who are against vaccines. I believe it can be explained more by emotions rather than cognitions; specifically existential anxiety. I know, that sounds paradoxical, and it is. If you want to know more, listen to Sheldon Solomon's many YouTube videos or read about Terror Management Theory. Cheers! :)
Sir, I agree one should not outwardly disparage someone's comment because one does not agree, yet vulgarity & poor logic can strain one's patience.
I have been following Dr. Kristen Panthagani, MD, PhD, posts on being more empathetic to those misinformed possibly by "miscommunication" that has fueled scepticism of those vaccine reluctant or maybe anti-vaxxers.
Certainly, in the early days, months & yr's during the pandemic (possibly now endemic) messaging became conflicting but we were & continue to chase a moving target. It's never easy to convey complex PH issues in brief news interviewd or announcements from health officials.
However, if those in high government positions, including your president were advocating for the best practices currently available, I believe fewer skeptics would be left confused, conflicted or conspiracy promoters.
JJF Phm 🇨🇦
I hear you. Empathy is usually easier to practice in person with most people, most of the time. That's mainly how you influence folks; one-on-one through relationships over time.
Let me offer my apologies to you for the really stupid and offensive remarks "our" President has made about your country. I said "our" because I have never voted for him and he does not represent me or the 50.2% of the US population that voted for another candidate. It's an interesting question whether Trump is the cause of our current dysfunction, or he merely exploited and exacerbated it. We were definitely divided before 2016 but it seems to be on steroids now, not to mention that our democracy is at stake. I think Trump is only in control of MAGA to a certain extent. He took pride in "his" vaccines until he tried promoting them at one of his rallies and got booed. After that, he never promoted them again. Who knows if/when/how this country will return to its senses but if it doesn't soon, I'm thinking of heading to Canada. Got room?! :)
Thank you sir. You should not have to apologize for the poor behavior of DJT because you have no responsibility for his lack of decorum. I myself cannot help referring to him as a "bully" ...fact... ironically the Chinese finance minister & their president have called Trump out on his ridiculous tactics. There is no "art of the deal" when it's predicted upon Trump only get the deal he wants. DJT appears to flip from one tactic to another based upon how he is perceived...my analysis proof of insecurity.
I have stated in multiple posts abhorrent acts of DJT & his band of sycophants, challenges my lexicon & Webster's Thesaurus to convey by sadness for those impacted...yes many will die, proof look to Africa & elsewhere. His daily blatherings & threatened tariffs has caused chaos in the financial markets & severely demissed countless (almost) individuals net worth.
Personal I am fortunate my investments are not a source of income...I am not in the 1% class yet comfortable & the loss on paper is huge!
So, I suspect should I travel to the US ...no intention for the remaining 4 yr's of his "rein of terror"...I would likely be flagged by CBS. Why, I it a high probability the US is monitoring all social media platforms for any negativity. How has the HLS & ICE for people to threaten with deportation & even sent letters to American born citizens.
I father was a landed immigrant upon serving in the US Navy, paternal grandparents were American citizens & also landed immigrants. My professional degree is from an American university.
My point I am not anti-American, anti-bully.
Warm regards JJF
I doubt this is in fact Dr. Offit 🤔
It is my understanding that TMT studies have failed to replicate initial findings supporting TMT, leading to some skepticism within the field of psychology. But I’m not a psychologist, so can you direct me to some peer-reviewed research that supports TMT?
I would be happy to. The first link below is to a book written by the 3 psychology professors who came up with the theory about 30 years ago. It summarizes the findings of the more than 500 studies published in peer reviewed journals during those 30 years (and even more since the book was published in 2016). Hundreds of those studies were conducted by OTHER researchers, in a variety of cultures and countries. The references are all in the book if you want to look at original sources.
Yes, of course, there have been critiques, which is good, as that's how science progresses. What I like most about these former hippie shrinks is that they don't get defensive about it, and even use self-deprecating humor in their response, as you will see in the article in the second link, where they discuss criticisms and alternative theories starting on page 33. Since it also summarizes TMT research, you will find many, many citations at the end for studies from peer reviewed journals supporting TMT. (Unfortunately the "official" version is behind a paywall, and this is a corrected proof. It's easier to read if you download the free PDF text). If you want the official finalized copy, I bet Dr. Solomon would send you one. I once wrote to him with questions, which he not only kindly answered, but he sent me the full PDF text of a 300+ page textbook on Terror Management Theory. His email is: ssolomon@skidmore.edu
https://www.amazon.com/Worm-Core-Role-Death-Life/dp/1400067472/ref=asc_df_1400067472?mcid=3f5ba89ac939318b84d099f209d86693&hvocijid=5780076952583139827-1400067472-&hvexpln=73&tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=721245378154&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5780076952583139827&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9019360&hvtargid=pla-2281435177418&psc=1
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/289309102_Thirty_Years_of_Terror_Management_Theory
Your social circles are limited. I am an anti-vaxxer except for the DT after three. I have four graduate degrees, including a Ph.D. And a J.D. And severe, permanent vaccine injuries. My daughter, autistic from vaccines, both went to public school and was home-schooled. She learned a lot in homeschooling (Core Knowledge series pre-K-8), nothing in school.
Your four graduate degrees have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Unless they are medical degrees, or maybe an advanced degree in immunology or virology, why do you bring them up?
Cia claimed once that she knew more about infectious diseases than the CDC and the WHO.
Amazing, huh?
Her daughter has autism. But the reasons are not what she claims. There is a very strong genetic family background for autism with Cia herself, her parents, uncle and brother all being afflicted. They have a hereditary gene mutation of NRXN-1 , which modulâtes signalling between neurons in the brain. Mutations cause autism. CIA’s child in addition to that had severe hypoxia (oxygen deprivation) before and during birth because of a true knot in the umbilical cord.
But for reasons I can only attribute to a desperation to find something else to blame, she decided the autism was due to Thimerosal-containing Hep B vaccine given after birth causing an encephalitis. (The vaccine no longer contained thimerosal at the time of her delivery, and the Hep B vaccine does not cause encephalitis as a side effect).
Go figure…
Again, genes load the gun, vaccines pull the trigger. My mother reacted to the diphtheria vaccine with mercury, which changed her at four from normally developing to sillent, losing her words, cold, and undemonstrative. I screamed with vaccine encephalitis for days after my first DPT at three months old, which caused Aspergers. My brother beat his head on the bars of his kiddy coop for months while screaming, causing Aspergers in him. My father was loving, hard-working, and normal until a flu vaccine paralyzed him for the last three and a half years of his life.
No genetic condition causes screaming for four days and nights and then it stops, not occurring until the vacvine is given. The genetic condition is the background, but the symptoms of autism never manifest until the vaccine causes brain damage. That’s why not everyone reacts to vaccines with autism, and why the unvaxxed with such conditions never develop autism. It takes both genetic propensity AND the vaccine.
1. The genetic conditions causing autism cause it whether the children are vaccinated or not. Fact.
2. If as you claim all autism is triggered by vaccination, how do you explain autism in children who are not vaccinated?
3. You still don't understand what "encephalitis" is, despite several attempts over the years for me to educate you about this, as the cost of much of my time. Uncontrolled screaming for a few days in an infant doesn't equal encephalitis.
Uncontrolled screaming in an infant for three hours or longer with a high-pitched cri encéphalique IS the diagnostic marker for encephalitis. If a vaccine was given in the days or weeks before, it is vaccine encephalitis. Look it up. It may be that your eleven years of constantly pelting the vaccine-damaged with stones have not left you enough time for continuing professional education.
Not a fact. Curious, that, that only vaxxed people develop autism. That’s why pharma authorities have refused to do a large-scale study comparing autism rates in the vaxxed and unvaxxed. Those private studies done show autism only in the vaxxed. Autism rates continue to explode. I thought they would level off at a high rate and not rise when no new vaccines were added to the schedule. But then they added the dangerous Covid vacvines to the schedule for school, and BAM! Autism rates explode into the stratosphere again. While unvaxxed children remain healthy.
You need to give thought to how you will come down off the ledge. Your vaccine propaganda has become increasingly strident and laughable.
You're jumbling up your own "injury" claims with those for your daughter - and now your mother too.
Keep better notes, so that your lying is not so transparent.
Two causes. I also told you I had spoken with Ed Yazbak about it. He said the mercury toxicity and the vacvine encephalitis were separate causes. Both devastating, both caused her autism. As well as the reaction to the DTaP booster at 18 months.
Well, you’ve also spoken to me about this, and with respect I think I can safely say I know more about encephalitis that Yazbak does.
The commenter said that antivaxxers were ignorant and uneducated. I understand the issues involved in vaccination and that is all that is necessary. There is no concept involved which only “experts” are capable of understanding.
Actually most of medicine, both in terms of vaccine science and beyond, requires a level of expertise beyond what you seem to have. Which is why the process of becoming a fully board certified doctor is so lengthy and rigorous. Granted, Dr Offit does an outstanding job of putting complex topics into layman’s terms. But you seem to still seem to misunderstand these concepts, You absolutely do not understand the issues related to vaccines . All of your posts reflect this.
I assume that you have studied this anthology which studies how and why adjuvanted vaccines, espevially aluminum, cause autoimmune disease. Now explain to us why anyone desiring not to develop such disease should take a vaccine known to trigger it.
https://www.amazon.com/Vaccines-Autoimmunity-Yehuda-Shoenfeld/dp/1118663438/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?crid=3QOMTQ7OJMI9I&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.vCig2ONnBVx-boEpqr2Uxum6Marh3URJG9zUdg5AX_M.unht9pAc8O4NzQV3BvqZwSItYzXhFYsLfPGfVPWkqjU&dib_tag=se&keywords=yehuda+schonfeld+vaccines+and+autoimmunity&qid=1745357259&sprefix=yehuda+schonfeld+vaccines+and+autoimmunity%2Caps%2C178&sr=8-2
Vaccine Safety: Myths and Misinformation
Geoghegan, S. et al. Frontiers in Microbiology REVIEW published: 17 March 2020 doi: 10.3389/fmicb.2020.00372
Aluminum is the third most abundant element in the environment, and the most abundant metal, and is found diffusely in soil, water,plants, and air. It is found in a variety of consumer products, as well as throughout the human food chain, and in many pharmaceuticals. In vaccines, aluminum is used as an adjuvant, a component that boosts immune response to the vaccine antigens. When adjuvants are used they allow for smaller amounts of vaccine to be given, as well as fewer doses. Aluminum has been used in a variety of vaccines, including hepatitis A and B, H. influenzae type b, and pneumococcal vaccines. As a vaccine component, aluminum has been extensively tested for safety as part of pre-licensure clinical trials. We know from studies examining the aluminum exposure of infants that the cumulative amount of aluminum from vaccines in the first 6 months of life is actually far less than that received from dietary sources, including both breast milk and formula (Keith et al., 2002; Mitkus et al., 2011). Both sources represent far less exposure than that represented by a regulatory minimal risk level (MRL), which is established by the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry. The safety of aluminum salts from vaccines, and from other sources, has also been established in studies examining blood and hair levels of aluminum in infants, and associated neurodevelopmental outcomes (Karwowski et al., 2018). Such studies have not proven a link between blood and hair concentrations of aluminum and receipt of vaccines, nor between blood and hair aluminum concentrations and neurodevelopmental outcomes.
Laera, A., et al. Aluminum adjuvants—‘Back to the future.’ Pharmaceutics 2023, 15, 1884. https://doi.org/10.3390/pharmaceutics15071884
Aluminum-containing adjuvants have been administered in billions of doses of vaccines over almost 100 years, mostly to children and adolescents. Although they have limitations, such as their relative inability to induce robust cell-mediated (Th1) immune
responses and a susceptibility to freezing, their record of safety and tolerability, along with their low cost, continues to make these adjuvants an attractive component of vaccines. As we discussed recently, aluminum adjuvants remain the gold standard against which new and exploratory adjuvants should be evaluated [5]. Recent advances in the biophysical characterization of aluminum- adjuvanted vaccines, including sophisticated high-throughput screening methods, facilitate the development of new vaccine formulations and enable quality control during the manufacturing process. Taking advantage of the high adsorptive capacity of aluminum adjuvants, they will increasingly be used as a platform to develop novel combination adjuvants able to drive the necessary immune responses to specific pathogens and for use in selected human populations. These developments will ensure
that aluminum-containing adjuvants remain a mainstay of vaccine formulations for the foreseeable future.
Rivera, L. et al. Immunogenicity and safety of three aluminium hydroxide adjuvanted vaccines with reduced doses of inactivated polio vaccine (IPV-Al) compared with standard IPV in young infants in the Dominican Republic: a phase 2, non-inferiority,
observer-blinded, randomised, and controlled dose investigation trial. www.thelancet.com/infection Vol 17 July 2017
Safety assessments
The infants were observed for 30 min after each
vaccination and immediate adverse events were recorded. A diary, thermometer, and ruler were given to parents for daily recording and measuring of injection site reactions, temperature reactions, and other solicited adverse events during the first 3 days (72 h)after vaccination, and for recording of any adverse event during the 7 days after vaccination. The solicited events in the diary were injection site redness or swelling reactions, axillary temperatures, persistent crying for more than 3 h, irritability, drowsiness, loss of appetite, vomiting, and diarrhoea. Parents also recorded use of concomitant medications. All adverse events were assessed for seriousness, relatedness to the vaccine, intensity, and outcome, and were transferred to the electronic case record form. Adverse events were coded by MedDRA, MSSO version 17.1. A data safety monitoring board comprised independent experts who advised the investigators and sponsors during the active phase of the trial and made recommendations regarding continuation, modification, or termination of the trial. The data safety monitoring board held two evaluation meetings. The recommendation from the board after both meetings was to continue the trial without modifications.
Condescending and wrong. Designed to let you get away with murder.
How? What is wrong with that comment specifically? And as far as “condescending” goes, just because something is beyond you does not make it condescending.
Conspiracy theories don’t differentiate based on education level. Plenty of very high academic achievers end up in cults. I find it has more to do with what one uses as a check on objective reality. One can get up in their head so far reality no longer applies.
Personally I find the scientific method and input from a variety of perspectives helpful.
Wow…that is a lot of vaccine injuries in one family. You should play the lottery!
Many are well educated and remarkable more for their egotism and entitlement than their ignorance. At least a couple of anti-vaxxers I know are educated and otherwise sophisticated
I have an undergraduate and graduate degree from two top 10 universities and I’m a member of Mensa. I am a firm anti-vaxxer for myself based on the science. I was in charge of a worldwide group at a fortune 100 company when six vaccines that could be given to any child in a single appointment were given to me for a vacation. I was disabled & lost my career. I’m still not fully recovered, 30 years later. Until you do the research like I have, you just do not know. And when someone’s livelihood depends upon a lie, it’s impossible for them to see the lie.
Not impressed with stupidity.
Every anti-vaxer/homeschooling parents that I’ve personally met, barely made it through high school and always, religious nutfux!
Wow. More ad hominem attacks. I also note that you and other other people attacking me are using pseudonyms.
And I couldn’t be vaccine injured and public about it, because that would endanger your concept of herd immunity right? I have to be vaccine injured and not say anything. To never warn anyone that vaccines have risks. That feels authentic.
The real first step in treating 'vaccine' addiction is when the individual admits that they have a problem and opens up to seeking treatment for the addiction.
Never graduated high school but still smart enough to homeschool their kids?
Make that make sense
You do know that statistically speaking home schooled kids routinely outperform their public school educated counterparts in reading writing and arithmetic
You do know that the homeschool achievement statistics are self reported from inside that community. Of course they all outperform everyone else.
Thats of course bullshit. They only readon.we know they outperform their public school educated counterparts is because they are pithed against them in various competitions (spelling bees, math contests, book reading/reports)
In the U.S we rank.dead last in the U.N index for developed countries in readimg/writing/arithmetic. The overwhelming majority of our kids are enrolled in public schools
Again, stats are only as good as the underlying data. You don’t know about the homeschool kids that fail because they don’t get tested, and they don’t enter competitions.
Why are public school numbers so low? Because we test everyone and report all the data. If we want to make ourselves feel better, we could go back to cherry-picking the data, but it’s dishonest.
How would that be possible? To avoid getting tested? In most states its a crime (involving child protective services) if they arent either enrolled in a formal education program or a homeschool or private tutor.
And reading/writing/arithmetic is the basics required to function in this internet age society. Imagine trying to open a bank account, pay bills, buy a car, read manuals to operate equiptment, follow a youtube recipe without reading/writing/arithmetic
Look I will be anything you are a teacher and likely one for public school. My sister is one. And she gets very defensive when I remind her about the dismal performance of public school educated students. I remind her how the teachers union is overwhelmingly against vouchers ... they dont like competition because they are so bad at it
Nope, sorry. Most states provide exemptions or will accept testing proctored by accredited homeschool programs. My spouse was homeschooled and I homeschooled one of my kids for a year. No testing required, no state visits. Just a form I submitted to the state.
I agree basic education is necessary, that’s why I’m wary of homeschooling, vouchers, and most charter schools. They don’t have the oversight to verify what they claim they’re doing.
Your sister is probably defensive because she gets to see firsthand the problems these policies cause.
Homeschoolers perform brilliantly when they go to the university, and that is borne out in statistics. I had two homeschooled students in a universiy Spanish conversation class, and they were perfect students, hard-working, straight As, friendly, courteous, and cooperative, unlike the products of public schools. They were like Walton children.
What about the homeschool children that don’t get to go to university?
I know several adults who were homeschooled as kids. They’re perfectly functional adults, but all of them refuse to homeschool their own children because of their experiences.
Anecdotal evidence.
And I think you are confusing "schooling" with "education"
So the best way to persuade you is to hide the kids that fail. No data=no proof, therefore homeschooling always delivers superior results. HSLDA has been on that game since the 1980s.
Like impulsive, reckless Ben Walton? Or like aimless, restless Jim-Bob? Or like Mary Ellen or Erin? They both slept around A LOT. Thus, your admiration.
I don’t think I’m in the right echo chambers to immediately identify Erin, Jim-Bob, or Mary from any random person with those first names. Although the slut shaming is a nice touch.
Defamatory lying cilia parker was praising homeschool greatness - Turning out fine Walton-like young adults. I was pointing out her selective memory (again).
"Homeschoolers perform brilliantly when they go to the university, and that is borne out in statistics. I had two homeschooled students in a universiy Spanish conversation class, and they were perfect students, hard-working, straight As, friendly, courteous, and cooperative, unlike the products of public schools. They were like Walton children."
https://pauloffit.substack.com/p/anti-vaxxers-the-dog-that-caught/comment/111376277
Bullshit…you just made that up.
https://crowncounseling.com/statistics/public-school-vs-homeschool/
Public School Enrollment: Around 49.4 million students are enrolled in public schools across the United States.
Academic Performance: Homeschooled students typically score 15 to 25 percentile points higher than public school students on standardized tests.
SAT Scores: On average, homeschooled students score 1190 on the SAT, compared to 1060 for public school students.
College Graduation Rates: About 67% of homeschooled students graduate from college, compared to 59% of public school graduates.
High School Graduation Rates: Public school students have a high school graduation rate of 91%, while the rate for homeschooled students is approximately 66.7%.
Standardized Test Performance: Over 78% of peer-reviewed studies indicate that homeschooled students perform statistically significantly better than their public school counterparts.
Higher Education Pursuit: Approximately 74% of homeschooled students go on to attend college, compared to only 44% of public school students.
I know many homeschoolers that went to college.
Ok boomer.
Does that include antivaxxer medical doctors ?
Obviously they were smart enough to earn a medical degree and dedicated enough to go through multiple years of residency before passing board exams and earning their medical license
Only to have them stripped away for incompetence, disinformation, treating patients while actually reporting being actively infected with measles and having measles spots on their face, and flat out lying. A phenomenal crowd of characters, to say the least.
^troll alert
Phil any point you may be trying to make is lost with vulgarity & using the "N" characterization JJF Phm 🇨🇦
I shouldn't dignify your continued vulgarity & lack of maturity oops just did.
Civil discussion allows for each of those included in the conversation to learn & understand an issue, you sir are not welcome in this discussion.
Another great post Dr Offit. Please keep up the fight.
Give it up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TtvG18iSxY
I'll text Offit and make sure that he gives it up - just as soon as you send me validated proof that you are not eating pet dogs and cats in Springfield.
Sure thing. Overwhelming (essentially unanimous) opinion of the entire medical community versus a YouTube video shared by a random person on the internet. Tough call as to who to go with.
Peer pressure isn't evidence of anything but drug pusher tactics. Just say no.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkQXnQ0plDA
Measles can kill your child! It almost killed my sister in 1953. If the vaccine wasn't working then why did we go for so long without seeing any deaths from measles. Why all of a sudden have we seen THREE deaths, two of them children? It's because children are not being vaccinated! That's not rocket science...it's common sense.
Pierre Kory, in addition to being a quack, has NO pediatric experience whatsoever beyond doing a Peds rotation as a third year med student several decades ago. Why in the world would he be considered an “expert” in managing a pediatric patient with respiratory failure???
Well done! I would add Dr. Kory was stripped of his board certifications by the American Board of Internal Medicine for unprofessional conduct. But at least he did complete post graduate medical education unlike Dr. Malone whose post graduate medical education consists of a one year pathology internship only. Dr. Malone is neither board certified nor board eligible in any clinical area. Although he does hold an active license in Maryland, his CV does not provide any evidence of clinical activity, ever. An MD with only one year of internship and no clinical experience is not qualified to opine as an expert on any clinical matter.
And even prior to losing his board certification, he had no pediatric experience whatsoever. Nothing beyond what he would have seen as a third year medical student in his Peds rotation.
Stripped by the pharma criminals. Like Wakefield, Paul Thomas, and Sears. Big deal.
No. Actually stripped by his peers. I am licensed in 14 states and serve as a consultant to multiple state boards. Revoking a license is a big deal and requires irrefutable evidence of unprofessional conduct of such severity as to constitute harm to the public. The pharmaceutical industry has nothing to do with it. This is a physician led process. There is a extensive due process and physicians are provided ample oppportunity to defend themselves and participate in corrective action. We don't take away licenses, medical staff privileges or board certification without giving our colleagues every opportunity to course correct. Physicians are obligated by ethics, morals and law to practive according to current best evidence. Some physicians have difficulty discerning what current best evidence is. That's where the antivax physicians go astray. They are like the general public in that regard, unable to discern quality evidence from junk science.
Yes, unethical, fraudulent doctors lose their licenses. ....Nothing new there!!!!
Can you cite some actual evidence to support that? Anything? And please keep in mind, “I heard it on Twitter” is not a source.
Second request, can you cite actual evidence to support this?
Kory is a licensed practicing physician. Malone is an MD and a biochemist. Like Fauci he is not a clinician.
You could simply say “Dr Malone wasn’t hazed and brainwashed like I was.” That’s all you had to say.
Conspiracy theorists have taken over the government. Their fears drive them to lunacy.
Dr. Parker unfortunately your degrees have left you without the factual understanding your daughter does NOT have autism because she received any vaccine.
JJF Phm 🇨🇦
Thank you Dr. Offit. Maurice Hilleman must be rolling in his grave.
Another essay that is long on scapegoating but light on solutions to address the root cause of declining public trust in the US vaccine approval, recommendation, and surveillance system and in the medical-industrial complex in general. No mention of the large measles outbreak in Ontario, which is similar in size to that of Texas. No discussion of why Mennonites and Amish reject vaccines and other modern contrivances long before RFKJr appeared on the scene. Attacking “anti-vaxxers” (an unfortunate slur) is not helping. When >80% of the public is rejecting the full CDC vaccine schedule, what is an “anti-vaxxer”?
Yet again you are quick on the draw to get in one of your “tone trolling” comments on the discussion forum.
Nobody can deny that RFKjr and his antivaccine organisation CHS have been pivotal in influencing parents throughout the country not to vaccinate their children over the last couple of decades.
Deflection of accountability, responsibility and blame is what he does best.
Have you a citation for your claim that 80% of the public are against the childhood vax schedule? Last I heard it was a small minority. Thank you.
Less than 20% of US children and adults are getting annual “covid boosters” as recommended by the CDC.
I’m certain that parents who just wish to hold fire on yet another Covid booster for their kids would not be regarded as antivaxers by reasonable doctors (or anyone).
An antivaxer is someone who not only rejects certain vaccines but spreads disinformation about them with the direct or indirect intent to dissuade others from getting vaccinated.
By that definition, only a small percentage of individuals merit the antivaxer label.
Here is Merriam-Webster's definition:
"A person who opposes the use of some or all vaccines, regulations mandating vaccination, or usually both."
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-vaxxer
The definition might encompass those opposed to “vaccination” as a policy, rather than just specific individual vaccine, but the more you broaden out the definition then the greater the proportion of people who that definition applies to.
You were asked for a citation for your statement that >80% of the public is rejecting the full CDC vaccine schedule, and you only responded that less than 20% of US children and adults are getting annual “covid boosters” as recommended by the CDC. Does this, then, indicate that you have none?
80% not getting the covid boosters is a de facto rejection of the full schedule. If they cannot trust that every recommended vaccine is necessary, how is it possible to know which are really necessary and which are not?
In other words, you made that "de facto" statement up.
Dr. Marine 👍 for being current on the unfortunate outbreak of measles in my home province. You may not be aware the cases in Ontario are linked to cases in New Brunswick... fall 2024 gathering
BEFORE RFKJr releases what is sure to be a bogus discovery of “THE” cause of autism, maybe it'd be good to produce a massive, high-school-education-accessible and sufficiently entertaining to hold the attention of people who are otherwise drawn to influencers are heart-string tugging accounts by (often, anonymous or sock-puppet) moms
It's a LOT easier to debunk the sort of fraud and lies you anticipate BEFORE it gets attributed as an official understanding.
I think it's time for experts such as yourselves to partner with experts in modern communications. No dissing of your current approach, which I think is very well tailored to your current audience. But we skeptical (!), science-aware individuals are a minority
Anti-vaxxers are murderers. It's really just that simple.
It’s all the same propaganda strategy no matter what this Administration is selling…
Lie, when cornered with or shown facts, they create another conspiracy as bait for the base to bite on, to avoid psychological humiliation.
Humiliation and insecurity is what brought them to maga in the first place. MAGA tells the least secure and the most toxic Americans that THEY are always right and everyone else is wrong.
It’s a mental shortcut to “superiority” without effort. Just blame large ambiguous groups for personal failures or missed opportunities.
“I didn’t become an astronaut bc of DEI” Never mind that they put no effort into gaining ANY of the required education or do necessary to become an astronaut, it’s all someone else’s fault that the maga is living paycheck to paycheck.
Second guessing or even questioning unleashes their suppressed emotional anxiety, and taps into their extreme insecurity, fearing they’ll be kicked out of the club and labeled a traitor.
This applies to everything! Qanon people proclaim all medical Dr’s and Scientists as corrupt or Deep State which opens the door to feelings of superiority. They now have “special knowledge” and no Doctor or Scientist with all of their experience and study, can top those YouTube videos boosting them with excess dopamine.
All of their personal insecurities melt away with one ridiculously inaccurate meme or post.
I think one day this phenomenon will be studied labeled a psychological or emotional addiction, and with children suffering it’s obviously equally as dangerous as any other extreme addiction.
Thank you Dr. O! As the child of a parent who suffered from the effects of polio his entire life (wheelchair, lung and heart issues), keep preaching about vaccines! I'm so tired of this anti-vax nonsense. It makes me, well, furious!
You are losing the communication battle and surprinsingly have not noticed it. You just keep repeating the mantra of all vaccines are safe and effective. The Sun cannot be covered with one finger, and you look so cute trying harder everyday.
Shouldnt you change the strategy? Keeping this same stubborn attitude and pretending that your pharma stained credentials are enough is not a good idea. Ignoring thousands of families vaccine injured is cruel. You are perverse.
Who said all vaccines were safe and effective?
There are nuances here…all vaccines currently licensed appear to be safe to a standard of safety that is acceptable for other medical drugs and products. And nothing is completely safe, not even drinking water, breathing air, or having a bath. All those things have killed people, but would ordinarily be considered “safe”.
All licensed vaccines have demonstrable efficacy…not 100% (no vaccine can measure up to those standards), but sufficient efficacy to merit their clinical use.
You have reached an important point. For families vaccine injured, as mine, procedures related to vaccine use approval have been defective. Hopefully this will change soon. We all want safe and effective vaccines, right now we dont have them.
Were you truly “vaccine injured” or do you just hate your autistic kid? I only ask because, as someone on the spectrum, I see this conflation far too often.
I wont answer that. When you are able to provide a more intelligent approach I might answer. Try harder or go to play games elsewhere.
So, yes. Your kid has an autism diagnosis, and instead of learning and trying to understand your kid, you’d rather blame a vaccine for why they’re “broken.” I hope they learn to love themselves in time.
I hope you are able to use your brain sometime in the future. As can be seen, it is still brand new.
Just for your reference, after a regressive ASD level 3 we have been able with deep love consisting in long term therapy, proper diet and permanent follow up to get a new dx of ASD level 1. I dont expect you to understand this. Its for the rest of the community.
Why do you think your child was vaccine-injured, may I ask?
Sure Mike. I have a documentary. We as a family open our hearts there and present our case. My only request is that if I share it with you, you show respect afterwards. It is 29 minute long. You tell me
Sir what is perverse is to use the unsubstantiated label of "stained pharma credentials" without factual evidence that disputes sound science.
Please provide the published evidence of your stated "thousands of families injured by vaccines"?
Qualifier any family that received payment from a JFK Jr litigation or similar questionable legal action would not be proof of vaccine injury, simply a settlement.
JJF Phm 🇨🇦
Sir our family has been vaccine injured. And to know others you can take a look to the Vaxxed documentary. Majority of deniers state that the people interviewed there are simply silly actors, but that doesnt change reality. If you have the time, I can share with you our family documentary with the recorded evidence.
Btw, this comment is NOT brought to you by Merck 'Sparking Discovery, Elevating Humanity'